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rsmith6621a
Topic Author
Posts: 1508
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:21 pm

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Tue May 31, 2005 11:46 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 48):
United Airlines, up until a few years ago could have touted itself as a full service airline. Now the airline in effect, appears to be a mixture of so many things. Not only to its employees, but the flying public. For example A passenger flying from Singapore to Las Vegas in First Class now has to fly via Hong Kong or Tokyo to San Francisco, and then transfer to an all Economy product from San Francisco to Las Vegas on TED. In turn the passenger that wishes to go from Singapore to Las Vegas with a Premium product, would opt for the entire journey to be on an airline that can offer Premium Service such as Japan Airlines.

Exactly!!!!!!!......Creating an all TED markets has created a nightmare for those who wish to book F or C class all the way to their destination...On the above example the passengers do get pissed when they find this out. Also it creates an issue when trying to fit PAX into a MP booking to.The PAX do go looking when they find out they are not on F all the way.
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
1rocco
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:46 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Tue May 31, 2005 11:59 pm

Could it have been the AMFA vote you seen on CNN?
 
BH346
Posts: 3164
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2000 5:50 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:12 am

I believe he meant the AMFA vote. According to their website, they have accepted the tentative agreement. Now it's down to the IAM. The last update from them seems to give some hope on a deal.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
ord
Posts: 1408
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:36 am

Kahala777 - Your arguments have very little basis. Let's take a look:

1. Singapore-Las Vegas First Class - Yes, with Ted a passenger cannot do this on United. But there are not enough passengers who want to do this, or are willing to pay for it, to make it profitable.

2. Ted - Most of the passengers on Ted routes are not frequent business travelers who want to upgrade. So to cater to them with first class upgrade options makes no business sense. JetBlue and Southwest seem to be quite successful in leisure markets with upgrade opportunities.

3. Domestic - All big airlines have shifted numerous routes to RJ flying (American in St. Louis, hello). To single out United is ridiculous. Yes, United gave up a lot of Shuttle routes to Southwest. But that's because Southwest has far lower costs and can destroy United on these routes. You seem to forget all the other airlines that Southwest drove out of intra-California routes besides United, including American, Delta and US Airways. American was even driven from its hub at San Jose.

4. Transcon - You say United has not lured passengers from our carriers with p.s. Do you have proof of this? I didn't think so. Also, who says passengers prefer widebodys? Most posters on frequent traveler website forums seem to prefer p.s. 757 service over standard 767 service. Besides, American and Continental offer 757 to Europe.

5. International - All big airlines have had changes in this area, yet you choose to single out United. American hasn't yet even standardized its first class. Some people fly expecting the suite and instead get the coffin seat. That's not great either. And as mentioned above, some Europe flights are flown with 757s. And do you want me to list all the international cities American and Delta have dropped over the years? And United dropped Miami as a hub because in order to build it up the planes would have needed to come from somewhere else, which would mean cutting flights at another hub.

United does have its issues, but so do all the other big airlines which you conveniently left out of your post.
 
F9HNLPLZ
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:53 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting ORD (Reply 53):
Kahala777 - Your arguments have very little basis. Let's take a look:

This is so true.. I am not sure on a lot of his statements. Remember though, He is our resident Airline CEO. sarcastic 
Frontier Airlines, A Whole Different Animal. Maybe some day to Hawaii???
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:04 am

Quoting ORD (Reply 53):
But there are not enough passengers who want to do this, or are willing to pay for it, to make it profitable.

Yeah, that is why Philippines Airlines and Japan Air Line serve Las Vegas with Premium Service.

Quoting ORD (Reply 53):
So to cater to them with first class upgrade options makes no business sense.

You mean like America West Airlines, and Air Tran?

Quoting ORD (Reply 53):
But that's because Southwest has far lower costs and can destroy United on these routes

United Airlines, gave Intra-California jet service to Southwest Airlines, with the reduction of Shuttle by United!

Plain and Simple!

Quoting ORD (Reply 53):
You seem to forget all the other airlines that Southwest drove out of intra-California routes besides United, including American, Delta and US Airways

That is funny American Airlines still operates Intra-California. Alaska Airlines still operates Intra-California.

Quoting ORD (Reply 53):
American was even driven from its hub at San Jose.

Right, and that is why they run a 777 daily to Narita!  sarcastic 

Quoting ORD (Reply 53):
Do you have proof of this?

Yes.. United Airlines dropping widebodies and frequency has allowed Song to immerse itself in the SFO/LAX-JFK market. American Airlines now has more flights than United Airlines in the SFO/LAX-JFK market.

Quoting ORD (Reply 53):
Also, who says passengers prefer widebodys?

Ask American Airlines. They attempted the 757 on the SFO/LAX-JFK market and were nearly submerged with complaints from AAdvantage Members, and clients on the routes.

Quoting ORD (Reply 53):
Most posters on frequent traveler website forums seem to prefer p.s. 757 service over standard 767 service.

That is a bunch of garbage and you know it!

Quoting ORD (Reply 53):
Besides, American and Continental offer 757 to Europe

American Airlines runs the 757 on 2 seasonal routes from Boston. You seem to forget that United Airlines got run out of the BOS-LHR market. A market that AA operates several daily 777 flights!  yes 

Continental Airlines runs the 757 on only a handful of European markets of which BHX, EDI, SNN, DUB, OSL, HAM, and LIS. You seem to have forgotten United Airlines serves non of those destinations. In addition for United Airlines to be such an International airline, they need leaps and bound before they offer as many flights as AA or CO to Europe.  wink 

Quoting ORD (Reply 53):
American hasn't yet even standardized its first class.

As is the case with United Airlines ...  sarcastic 

American Airlines has 6 daily JFK-LHR that go out near full fare paying up front in First and Business. And United Airlines, oh they had to drop the number of JFK-LHR flights down to two!  wink 

American Airlines offers the 777 daily JFK-GRU, MIA-GRU and they go out with the Premium Cabins packed full of paying passengers.. Oh, yeah you forgot United Airlines bombed out of both markets..  yes 

Quoting ORD (Reply 53):
And do you want me to list all the international cities American and Delta have dropped over the years?

It doesnt come near that of United Airlines combined failures at:

Milan, Madrid, Manchester, Glasgow, Buenos Aires(again), Geneva, Athens, Berlin, Hamburg, Stockholm, Delhi, Manila, Brisbane, Auckland, Guam, Santiago, Caracas, Lima, Port of Spain, Rome, Miami, New York.JFK, Newark, Boston, Seattle, Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington D.C., and San Francisco.

Quoting ORD (Reply 53):
And United dropped Miami as a hub because in order to build it up the planes would have needed to come from somewhere else, which would mean cutting flights at another hub.

Can we say contradiction!

United Airlines couldnt stand the heat the American Airlines was putting on them. United Airlines chose the cowards way out and ran home to Chicago, and Washington, yet again. Now, United has lost so much to American in Miami, that the city is becoming a TED market!


Regards - Kahala777
 
bigb
Posts: 1130
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:14 am

ORD, on points 1,3,5 I agree with you, but on the other two.

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 53):
2. Ted - Most of the passengers on Ted routes are not frequent business travelers who want to upgrade. So to cater to them with first class upgrade options makes no business sense. JetBlue and Southwest seem to be quite successful in leisure markets with upgrade opportunities.

Why Ted? why not opt these flts with mainline aircrafts? They spent money on painting aircrafts and reconfigurations of seats to all Y. You take away some operation flexibility by doing this. Answer this question, why aren't AA, CO aren't flocking to copy this?

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 53):
4. Transcon - You say United has not lured passengers from our carriers with p.s. Do you have proof of this? I didn't think so. Also, who says passengers prefer widebodys? Most posters on frequent traveler website forums seem to prefer p.s. 757 service over standard 767 service. Besides, American and Continental offer 757 to Europe.

Those are forums. Off course you guys wanna have so many aircrafts for Premium service. Why not upgrade these routes to an widebody aircraft that offers more premium seats? With P.S. You targeting a high yield market, but don't leave the low yield market hanging. Same goes for Ted, don't leave the high yield market hanging. There are folks out there, willing and wanting to pay for First class service to Vegas.
 
ord
Posts: 1408
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:41 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 55):
That is funny American Airlines still operates Intra-California.

American mainline doesn't operate a fraction of the intra-California routes they used to. AirCal dominated the scene when American took them over and there is almost nothing to show for it. Southwest ran them out of town.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 55):
Right, and that is why they run a 777 daily to Narita!

American retreated bigtime at San Jose. One flight to Narita does not make a hub. American mainline at one time had over 100 flights a day out of San Jose. Today it is 18 flights.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 55):
Ask American Airlines. They attempted the 757 on the SFO/LAX-JFK market and were nearly submerged with complaints from AAdvantage Members, and clients on the routes.

Those were standard 757s. Perhaps if they were equipped with a three-class layout and flat sleeper seats in first they wouldn't have had so many complaints.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 55):
As is the case with United Airlines ...

Huh? The fact is United has thesame first class seat on every international 777. The same cannot be said for American.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 55):
It doesnt come near that of United Airlines combined failures at:

Milan, Madrid, Manchester, Glasgow, Buenos Aires(again), Geneva, Athens, Berlin, Hamburg, Stockholm, Delhi, Manila, Brisbane, Auckland, Guam, Santiago, Caracas, Lima, Port of Spain, Rome, Miami, New York.JFK, Newark, Boston, Seattle, Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington D.C., and San Francisco.

Hmmm. United has failed in Chicago, Washington and San Francisco? And yes, American has dropped an awfullot of international cities over the years as well.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 55):
United Airlines couldnt stand the heat the American Airlines was putting on them. United Airlines chose the cowards way out and ran home to Chicago, and Washington, yet again. Now, United has lost so much to American in Miami, that the city is becoming a TED market!

There are only so many planes to go around. The other hubs were more profitable to keep than Miami. But if you want to look at it that way, let's look at the cowardly American, shall we? They couldn't take the heat from Southwest in St. Louis and ran home to Dallas. Now they're scared out of their minds the Wright Amendment will be lifted because Southwest will kill them in Dallas. JetBlue is having a field day with American at JFK. American also couldn't stand the heat and closed up hubs in Nashville and Raleigh (United has not closed any hub with over 100 flights).

American can be picked on as much as United, or any other airline.
 
ACdreamliner
Posts: 429
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RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:45 am

It still amazes me that

a) unions are still allowed
b) ppl have not seen that this could be the differance between having a job (even on less $) and being out of one totally.
Where are you going?
 
1rocco
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:46 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:51 am

Things seem to be really quiet. Is this a good or bad sign?? I have a feeling things are being worked out and they are just dotting the I's and crossing the T's.. Anyone feel the same way?
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:31 am

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 57):
Southwest ran them out of town.

They still operate very well against United Airlines SFO-LAX!  yes 

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 57):
American retreated bigtime at San Jose

Not as big as United Airlines at Miami, New York.JFK, Boston, and Newark  wink 

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 57):
One flight to Narita does not make a hub.

So you admit it... Honolulu, is a United Airlines Focus City.. Not a Hub!

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 57):
Perhaps if they were equipped with a three-class layout and flat sleeper seats in first they wouldn't have had so many complaints

Complaints??

Those flights exist for leisure traffic alone. They do not need a 3 class configuration ex BOS!

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 57):
The same cannot be said for American

Yeah, big bad American Airlines. The airline that has been beating United Airlines left and right in the Hawaiian, London, and South American markets!  wink 

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 57):
United has failed in Chicago, Washington and San Francisco?

United Airlines FAILED Chicago to Delhi, Dusseldorf, Miami, Las Vegas, Phoenix, and New York.JFK. To name a few! American runs mainline to Miami, Las Vegas, and Phoenix. United Airlines, well the are he low cost airline in town. If you want Premium cabins, chose American Airlines!  yes 

United Airlines FAILED Washington.IAD to Milan, Rome, Manchester, Glasgow, and Madrid. Alitalia has filled the void to Malpensa. BMI has filled the void to Manchester. And if you now want to fly United mainline to Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Las Vegas, and Phoenix. You will be on TED. So again, if you are a Premium cabin traveller you now can opt for American, America West, or Delta Airlines!  yes 

United Airlines FAILED San Francisco. United Airlines had to run silly from the Shuttle by United program, as an airline that doesnt even serve San Francisco was running them out of the market.  wink 

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 57):
American has dropped an awfullot of international cities over the years as well.

You seem to forget that American Airlines has held onto all its South American gateways. It is adding Nagoya, and Shanghai. And yes, you have fogotten that American Airlines kicked United in the rear on the JFK-LHR, BOS-LHR, and MIA-LHR markets!  wink 

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 57):
There are only so many planes to go around

Yeah, when you are a broke and pathetic airline!  sarcastic 

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 57):
The other hubs were more profitable to keep than Miami

Yeah, so you sent all of the GIG, GRU, and EZE Premium Traffic to AA!  wink 

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 57):
They couldn't take the heat from Southwest in St. Louis and ran home to Dallas

Correction, flights were transferred between DFW and ORD. Even with the reductions at Saint Louis, American Airlines, is still bigger in number of daily flights than United Airlines at Washington.IAD!  yes 

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 57):
Now they're scared out of their minds the Wright Amendment will be lifted because Southwest will kill them in Dallas.

Lets talk about scared. When American Airlines, starts service to Shanghai, United Airlines, is going to take a massive hit. United Airlines ran scared from the Miami market because of AA. United Airlines ran scared from the BOS-LHR market because of AA. United Airlines ran scared from the LAX-MEL market because of AA/QF. United Airlines ran scared from the JFK-HKG market, because of AA/CX. Please, American Airlines, is and will be a stronger airline for inflight service, than the mess called United Airlines.

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 57):
JetBlue is having a field day with American at JFK

???? American Airlines has 11 flights with widebodies JFK-LAX daily, and United Airlines has?????

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 57):
American also couldn't stand the heat and closed up hubs in Nashville and Raleigh (United has not closed any hub with over 100 flights).

Raliegh is one of American Airlines top performing route to London! In addition Raliegh never was a hub for American Airlines. It was a large Focus City, as is the case with United Airlines at Narita. Nashville was faded out to make way for American focus to build Miami, and Dallas into the fortress cities that they are. United Airlines will never be the size of American Airlines at DFW. Never.

Quoting ORD" class=quote target=_blank>ORD (Reply 57):
American can be picked on as much as United, or any other airline

United Airlines now is nothing better than TWA was back in the late 1990's and Pan Am in the late 1980's. A dying airline, with the clock ticking away!


Regards - Kahala777
 
F9HNLPLZ
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:53 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:36 am

Kahala, SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!
Frontier Airlines, A Whole Different Animal. Maybe some day to Hawaii???
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:39 am

Quoting F9HNLPLZ (Reply 61):
Kahala

Dont you have a critter on an imaginary airbus to fly to waikiki?

 wink 


Regards - Kahala777
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5352
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:45 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 62):
Dont you have a critter on an imaginary airbus to fly to waikiki?

ILS/Liar001/Kahala777 - don't you have a BMW with interior by Kia to hop in and drive off to your "prestigious (yet fictitious) Middle Eastern airline" that employs you?

P.S. It's Raleigh, not Raliegh.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
slider
Posts: 7617
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:49 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 10):
The judge abrogates the IAM contract and at the same time issues a restraining order barring the union from taking any job action.

Unlikely because I think the latter will happen:

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 25):
What is the likely hood the judge will again refuse to make a decision and order both sides back to the negotiating table?

Very damn high. We're at T-minus 45 minutes now and I would bet money that Wedoff will do this. Again.

He lost all credibility with me when he whacked the pensions. Should have forced UAL to sell down, divest assets, do what they needed to do to meet pension obligations. No creditors are served now, but one can make the argument that the employees, in a very real sense, ARE the largest creditors in terms of their careers, financial futures, pensions, etc.

Wedoff will wuss out again. Mark my words...

More borrowed time.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:52 am

Quoting ORD (Reply 57):
Those were standard 757s. Perhaps if they were equipped with a three-class layout and flat sleeper seats in first they wouldn't have had so many complaints.

While I agree with very little of what Kahala said, on this point I do agree with him. AA absolutely received enormous negative customer feedback because they flew 757s JFK-SFO and it had almost nothing to do with the "standard" configuration but the plane itself. In addition, UA flying 757s JFK-LAX/SFO has had virtually no impact whatsoever on AA's larger 767s and, in fact, a very well-placed individual at AA told me personally that they do, indeed, think that based on the market performance of AA's flights since the UA P.S. introduction, many customers do prefer 767 widebodies for no other reason than because they are widebodies.
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:53 am

I've already got my letter in to NW requesting a comp of my Premier status on UA. I'm just too scared to keep flying UA at this point, things have gotten way too hairy for my liking. Unfortunately though, I've got nine segments (luckily, six are on UAX) on UA in the next few weeks, ughh---including a flights on Friday. This should be a lot of fun.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
tommy777
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:32 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:54 am

"Chicago Tribune:

United Airlines' Mechanics Ratify Deal

By DAVE CARPENTER
AP Business Writer
Published May 31, 2005, 12:20 PM CDT


CHICAGO -- United Airlines' mechanics union ratified a five-year contract Tuesday, removing one strike threat from the carrier as another labor group negotiated down to the deadline.

A majority of the 7,000 members of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association voted to accept a five-year pact entailing $96 million in annual reductions and 3.9 percent pay cuts, among other conditions.

The outcome was announced on the union's Web site. The union said the vote tally would not be released until the two sides appeared in court later Tuesday to put the contract into effect. But spokesman Terry O'Rourke said the margin was "decisive."

The agreement still left the machinists' union, representing 20,000 ramp and public-contact workers, without a contract deal as a judge's afternoon deadline neared for ruling on whether to break their contract. "

Im sorry to disappoint you, Kahala777, looks like UA is 1 for 2 today.... Im suspecting they will be 2 for 2 before dinner...
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:56 am

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 63):
It's Raleigh, not Raliegh.

Who cares.... lol.... In NYC, we care about 3 things! N Y C!

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 63):
don't you have a BMW

No, we have the Metro in NYC...


PS- The clock is ticking and UAL, has a reservation for the desert! Honestly some of you and this "United is better than God" is getting very old!

Regards from the NYC - Kahala777
 
tommy777
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:32 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:05 am

I suspect Kahala777 is late for class.....
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:09 am

Quoting Tommy777 (Reply 69):
I suspect Kahala777 is late for class.....

Ha Ha.... Funny!  wink 
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5352
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:11 am

Quoting Tommy777 (Reply 69):
I suspect Kahala777 is late for class.....

I just want to know how he keeps all the identities straight - LHR001, ILS, Kahala..must be quite tiresome having to reinvent a new identity after each previous one gets unmasked. But why? Some deep-seated psychological compulsion to come on here and troll, mayhap? Feelings of inadequacy? Loneliness? Heck if I know, but I do know a.net would be better off without him.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:12 am

United will clearly bite the dust if there is a strike. It's the same kind of stupidity that says "lets go call a strike so the arline has no revenue and loses all of it's customers." Dumbest thing I have ever heard. These union pukes are bound and determined to have the airline fail and thus lose every job at UAL. Better to have a lower paying job than no job at all-which is exactly where this whole thing is headed.

But the government is also partly to blame for not making the airlines put money into the pensions when they were financially healthy.

And the Airline itself is to blame for being so stupid as to agree to the union demanded, hugely overblown pensions in the first place.
One Nation Under God
 
tommy777
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:32 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:18 am

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 71):
I just want to know how he keeps all the identities straight - LHR001, ILS, Kahala..must be quite tiresome having to reinvent a new identity after each previous one gets unmasked. But why? Some deep-seated psychological compulsion to come on here and troll, mayhap? Feelings of inadequacy? Loneliness? Heck if I know, but I do know a.net would be better off without him.

Well, I find him quite amusing, even if he's having fun with serious issues. Im sure he flies UA E+ to HNL, he should be forced to fly AAs new "A Lot Less Room Throughout Coach" to HKK 5 times...
 
quickmover
Posts: 2201
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:24 am

I can't see that the union has a choice here. The judge will rule in favor of whatever keeps the company as a going concern. A strike will put everyone out of work including the union reps. I think in order for the union to save face, they need some type of deal. It surely won't be what they want, but any deal is better than the strike option.

I'm not saying who is right and who is wrong in this dispute, but it can only play out one way or the other. There is no money to cover the liabilities and continue in business.
 
blrsea
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:32 am

Not sure whether this was posted earlier...

United, machinists' union reach deal

Quote:
...
Separately, United said it has to return four of its Boeing 767s to leasing companies because of an inability to reach a deal on new rental terms. Four other disputed aircraft also are at risk and might have to be returned if ongoing lease negotiations fail, Medina said.

The repossession is the result of a court ruling in early May by the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals, reversing a November order by Wedoff that barred lessors from taking back 14 of United’s 460 airplanes. The court said the planes could be repossessed unless United paid off its rental payments in full.

United subsequently rejected leases on six of the disputed planes, leaving eight vulnerable to repossession.

Medina said one route will be dropped because of the repossessions, between Chicago and Buenos Aires. United will continue to fly to Buenos Aires out of Washington.

...
 
1rocco
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:46 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:57 am

Not sure whether this was posted earlier...

United, machinists' union reach deal

Do they mean mechanics?
 
uaord2000
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:26 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:29 am

Kahala....You remind me of a little kid that just cannot be wrong, ever. You really need to start facing the truth and understand that quite a few people actually prefer UA to other carriers. Big surprise, isn't it? Lately, I just scroll through your posts...unless of course I need a little giggle. I'm sure you understand that your credibility has been lost and most on this forum share my opinions of you. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings too much little boy.

Later, J
 
hiflyer
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:38 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:34 am

The IAM has also now reached agreement to be ratified on June 17...that is the end of it.
 
ual777
Posts: 1642
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:38 am

Both unions have come to an agreement......So Kahala777, are u cancelling your party tonight??? Smile GO UAL!!!!!
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
F9HNLPLZ
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:53 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:39 am

Hey Kahala,

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

 bigthumbsup 
Frontier Airlines, A Whole Different Animal. Maybe some day to Hawaii???
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 80):
So Kahala777, are u cancelling your party tonight???

What Party???? lol

The writing is still on the wall for UAL!  yes 



Regards - Kahala777
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4320
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:44 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 60):

So you admit it... Honolulu, is a United Airlines Focus City.. Not a Hub!

Who ever said it was a hub?

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 60):
Raliegh is one of American Airlines top performing route to London!

Subsidized, anyone?

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 71):
LHR001, ILS, Kahala..must be quite tiresome having to reinvent a new identity after each previous one gets unmasked

He was lhr001. He was permanently banned and should not be back on this forum. After basically admitting to be lhr001 i suspect his time around here is very limited. One thing is for sure, you can change user names, but it'll always be the same ole' idiot behind the screen.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
F9HNLPLZ
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:53 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:48 am

Kahala, I think I speak for a lot of people on this board when I say:


GET OVER IT, YOU NEED TO GET A LIFE, YOU NEED TO STOP YOUR WHINING!!

There are a lot of us Americans that do have open minds in our lives and we do respect other cultures. You seem to have this chip on your shoulders. I am proud that I am open minded and love other people's ideas. You seem to have a "one" mind that you are right and everyone else is wrong. So Please, next time, have some points to your items and make sure you leave your tude at home.

Good day to you sir.
Frontier Airlines, A Whole Different Animal. Maybe some day to Hawaii???
 
ual777
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RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:50 am

Kahala777, I have come to a conclusion.....You do not know ANYTHING about what goes on at UA. I gave you about 3 chances to see reason, but you dont. Time and time again, UA has proven you wrong in your preposterous predictions. As the son of a UA777 captain, and as a pilot in training, I believe I speak for the rest of the UA family on this board and elswhere when I say: "Bite Me"........what will u come up with next Nostradamus?
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
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RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:59 am

Kahala is a pretty close minded individual. I don't mind people that disagree with me, but I do mind the people that think they're always right and their way is the only way. Kahala falls into the latter category. A.net would be better off without him.
PHX based
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:01 am

I'd like to say one thing here...
Go ahead and strike...but remember...

UA DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THEIR EMPLOYEES! YOU STRIKE, UA IS DONE!!!!

UA has ranked in the tops of customer service since being in chapter 11. It has nothing to do with managment, it has to do with the employees. The UA employees improved their service almost singlehandedly...they are some of the best in the industry. Go ahead and strike, you will only kill UA and lose your jobs. And in this industry, good luck finding a new job, espically if your high on the seniority ranks. Yes, the industry is coming back, but its not even at pre 9/11 levels.

On the other hand, if you do strike and UA is done, I feel the airline industry will all breathe a sigh of relief and some of the "errors" will be corrected. Nonetheless, its UA...UA is one of the oldest airlines in America, and I don't know what will happen if they go.
Also, they said on WGN that if the ground crew strikes, FAs and MX people strike...is this true?
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:05 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 86):

One of your little buddies in another forum to the fact that United Airlines had Honolulu as a base.

So crew bases and hubs are synonyms? I'll answer that, they are not. A good friend of mine is a purser for NW based at HNL. Does NW have a hub at HNL?? No they do not. UA has lots of bases. LAS was even a base ( i think thats been closed).

One of my little buddies? What have I said that makes me so pro-United. Im mostly neutral here, buddy.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 86):
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.... The route was given to American Airlines because the company new American Airlines was the best choice...

Which has what to do with the loads?

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 86):
Yeah, just like your demented leader!

Heres a news flash for you. You should NEVER stereotype and judge a large group of people by their leaders. That is absolutely ridiculous to say that all Americans have the views of George W. Bush. I for one do not. You stereotype Americans because of W. You stereotype United employees because of leadership. You need to get a grip and a hold on reality.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
CTHEWORLD
Posts: 463
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RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:05 am

Flairport, there is a TA in place now, there will be no strike tonight or until 6/17. At that point if the contract is not ratified, we will see, if it is ratified, then no legal strikes for any work group for 5 years. I think you are little behind the curve on your info.
 
baw716
Posts: 1463
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RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:16 am

Kahala777 and ORD
Let me see if I can bridge the gap between your relative positions while not giving away anything from my part of the plan that speaks to product:

Kahala777 in your post no 48 - I could not agree more with your post. It speaks exactly to the problem of the airline. In terms of product positioning, it does not offer the right product to the right people. In point of fact, United goes an awful long way of telling us (the customer) what kind of customer we are and on what kind of product we should fly. For example, if we are a business flyer, then we should get the full service of United (full service is an oxymoron), if you are a leisure flyer, you should get TED. However, where they place TED and United are in markets where both leisure and business flyers travel. What message is that sending to the market?

ORD-I am very sorry, but in your reply 53, I have a number of questions for you. You make factual statements, yet I am curious to know a few things:
1. You make the statement that there are not enough people willing to pay F class on the domestic part of SIN-LAS to make F class viable on that sector.
a) is that a correct interpretation of your statement? b) if it is, how do you know that? It seems to me that you have to be a really good revenue analyst to determine the ratio of F revenue that is allocated to the gateway-LAS portion of the fare paid SIN-LAS to determine if it is worth it to fly an F cabin to LAS. My history is from Asia (particularly from Japan), there are a great deal of Japanese that fly C to SFO, then F to LAS to gamble their little hearts away in LAS. Now that there is no C class on that last leg of the trip, there is less incentive for them to fly UA across the pond. So if the SIN flight that stops in NRT then comes to SFO is carrying NRT-LAS passengers, the yield on that flight is diluted by the fact that those passengers may not take that trip.
Can you answer b) for me?

2. Most of the passengers on TED are not business travellers who want to upgrade. How do you know that? A great deal of United's argument is that they are losing business travelers to Low Cost Carriers (LCCs) like Southwest and JetBlue that don't have First Class. If Business Travelers are flying Southwest and JetBlue, then it is reasonable to assume that (if they are MPlus members) that they would fly TED if they had to? I'd like to know where you got your information.

The problem is that a lot of people tend to shoot off factual statements without having the data to back it up....its OK to offer an opinion; but please do not state them as fact unless you have factual data to back it up.

Now with regard to the issue at hand, which is the product issue, Kahala is right. United's strategy is to have a network strategy with a "portfolio" of products. Then they stuff the passenger into these "products" very neatly as if every business traveler will fly UA because of the service offerings, leisure travelers will fly TED because of the low fares, low density markets will fly Express because its the only game in town. The Alliance product is used when they can't justify flying there themselves, but the alliance partner can, so they make it worth your while to fly the alliance partner by waiving the FF card. The problem with UA's strategy: 1) Business travelers are also leisure travelers so a lot of crossover occurs. 2) Its a little more than arrogant to believe that because you have a product for a business traveler, the business traveler is going to fly that product and pay your high fare. In fact, is a little stupid to think that, because if they are flying Southwest, do you think that having a higher quality airline with very high fares is going to lure them back to United? NOPE. 3) To maintain a multiple products (Express aside) is more expensive to manage than a single product, especially when you are operating a network strategy (which United, unfortunately, must continue to do). 4) If United continues to operate UAX as a regional contract carrier scheme as they now do, then it must develop a product EXACTLY the same as the rest of its domestic product, even if it is on small prop aircraft. Why? The continuity of the product is critical, especially in the smaller markets where the passenger tends to pay more for his ticket on a per mile basis than passengers who fly the larger equipment.

Therefore the answer is a single product that operates across the network (domestically and internationally), a quality product that can operate at low cost.

This statement is important and is something that United just doesn't seem to get: A quality product does not mean a more EXPENSIVE product. The critical points to travelers on an airplane are: 1) on time arrival 2) space on the aircraft 3) things to occupy time on board. Then the ground stuff comes in to play, check in, baggage delivery, etc etc etc.

How does JetBlue and Southwest operate a quality product, e.g. a product that people come away feeling good about...especially JetBlue? They fly a lot of longhaul domestic, as a LCC. How do they make people feel good about their travel experience? They make it a) simple b) comfortable c) inexpensive.
Well, the last point is relative, since their fares are not so inexpensive anymore. Have you tried to get a seat on them? Average fare is about $250-300 one way...about $500-600 round trip. That's pretty high and their planes are packed every day in both directions between OAK and JFK, for instance. How do they do it?

They focus on their employees. They take care of their employees. They make them feel valued, and they pay them a bonus when the company makes a profit. That's it. It's not rocket science. If the employer values its employees and makes them feel like their important...how do you think that will translate to the customer? The customer will be made to feel like their the most important thing in the world. Why does jetBlue get so many kudos in the press? Direct TV, great seat pitch, leather seat, yes yes, but its the people, the friendliness of the people, how the customer is treated at all steps in the customer experience, that is why jetBlue works.

It is also why United does not. If the employees are down and bitter and tired, it is going to show in how they treat the customer. This is NOT a knock on the United employees, who stick it out every day and try their best to do their jobs in the face of the worst kind of uncertainty. The psychological damage these people are facing is truly sad and truly unnecessary. However, it is very real and this is why some people have less than a happy face when they great you at the door of the airplane. However, god love them, they will get you to your destination, in one piece and for the most part on time.

So, what am I getting to:

Kahala, yes, United is a worldwide airline, yet they are not acting like one. However, this does not mean that they cannot turn it around, with the right kind of leadership. They need new leadership, with a vision of what United can be. Something that the employees can grasp and hold on to and believe. The new leaders must focus on several fronts: 1) fixing the morale of the employees 2) working on developing a single product that serves all the different market segments that is cost efficient. Mind you, I did not say low cost. United cannot achieve low cost. They can achieve cost efficient. If they can achieve cost efficiency in every aspect of their business, they can bring their costs under control. The reorganization plan that I am writing talks to those points. If there is one word that I will talk about it is efficiency. Efficiency in every aspect of the business. Efficiency and respect. Respect for every employee, no matter where and what job they do. For without the employees at the core of the business, the business will not be a success.

These are the goals to be achieved...and then, possibly and with a lot of hard work and strong leadership, United can once again be the worldwide airline leader we all hope it can be.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
tommy777
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:32 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:18 am

This is wonderful news, UA and its employees will now regain focus and make this airline work!

I am a UA1K who just became a a.net member. I must say that the forum need to be cleaned up a bit to be taken seriously.... You guys know what I mean...
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:18 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 60):
United Airlines FAILED San Francisco. United Airlines had to run silly from the Shuttle by United program, as an airline that doesnt even serve San Francisco was running them out of the market.

Buddy, check your sources...Southwest DID serve San Francisco at the time. However, they got sick of the delay-prone runway configuration, and thus bailed for another city where they could operate with their quick turns.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 60):
Even with the reductions at Saint Louis, American Airlines, is still bigger in number of daily flights than United Airlines at Washington.IAD!

Check your sources again. As of tommorrow, June 1st, United and their United Express providers will fly 298 daily flights, 88 mainline (including 17 for Ted), 64 by Air Wisconsin, 45 by Trans-States, 37 by Mesa, 34 by Chautauqua, 30 by Shuttle America. On the other hand, American and their Eagle and Connection partners will have 224 daily flights, 57 mainline, 10 Eagle, 85 by Trans States, 41 by Chautauqua, 31 by RegionsAir.

In all seriousness, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, you might want to get your facts straight before you post, rather than having everybody poke holes in your arguments.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:28 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 93):
Southwest DID serve San Francisco at the time

Southwest Airlines pulled San Francisco before 2001!  sarcastic 

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 93):
Check your sources again. As of tommorrow, June 1st, United and their United Express providers will fly 298 daily flights, 88 mainline (including 17 for Ted), 64 by Air Wisconsin, 45 by Trans-States, 37 by Mesa, 34 by Chautauqua, 30 by Shuttle America. On the other hand, American and their Eagle and Connection partners will have 224 daily flights, 57 mainline, 10 Eagle, 85 by Trans States, 41 by Chautauqua, 31 by RegionsAir

Either way it is very close. United Airlines operation at IAD, is just about the size of AA at STL. Not bad for a non hub city, eh?  wink 

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 91):
The psychological damage these people are facing is truly sad and truly unnecessary

They are not at War in Iraq! Oh the drama you people relay to the people at United! Get over it, they dont walk on water! They work just as every other airlines employees work!  sarcastic 

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 91):
They focus on their employees. They take care of their employees

That statement needs a little backup!

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 91):
b) if it is, how do you know that?

When Singapore Airlines flew LAS-HKG, they pulled the route due to several things. A/ Sars B/lack of back end passengers. The Raffles Class cabin was going out full with full fare paying J class passengers. The back of the plane was only supporting about 45-90 pax.


Regards - Kahala777
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:34 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 93):
Either way it is very close. United Airlines operation at IAD, is just about the size of AA at STL. Not bad for a non hub city, eh?

Just about, and very close? The margin is near-identical to the margin between Delta in Atlanta and American in Dallas-Fort Worth, in terms of percentages. Additionally, American still considers St. Louis one of their hubs, in addition to Chicago-O'Hare, Dallas-Fort Worth, Miami, and San Juan.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
FLAIRPORT
Posts: 3863
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:46 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:37 am

Quoting CTHEWORLD (Reply 89):
Flairport, there is a TA in place now, there will be no strike tonight or until 6/17. At that point if the contract is not ratified, we will see, if it is ratified, then no legal strikes for any work group for 5 years. I think you are little behind the curve on your info.

I was 1/2 hour behind and either way, there was too much whining to read each post, so by the time I got down there I wasn't reading!
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
exFATboy
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:15 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 88):
Also, they said on WGN that if the ground crew strikes, FAs and MX people strike...is this true?

I'd presume that if one union goes out, the others will honour the picket lines, which would quite possibly be the end of UA.

However, with today's announcement, that will only happen if the IAM's membership rejects the agreeement and UA goes back to court to get the existing contract set aside.

I'm not entirely certain what the timing on that would be - the AP wire item says that the two sides will be back in court to present the final contract on June 17, after the final details are set.

The article isn't clear on whether the ratification vote will be held before then, or if the judge has to review the final contract before the vote. Anyone know the answer?

(And amazing how badly the AP's writing standards have slipped over the years, isn't it?)
 
CTHEWORLD
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:27 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:56 am

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 95):
there was too much whining to read each post

Speed reading courses advocate that you skip past anything that has the word Kahala777 in it, it is useless text, not needed.
 
slider
Posts: 7617
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:16 am

I guess we need to go back and start a new thread titled "the next 24 DAYS at UAL..."

Another near disaster averted; we'll see how long they drag the ratification out and other subsequent Wedoff-induced delays.

This bankruptcy is becoming almost laughable.

Although I am glad they came to an agreement.
 
baw716
Posts: 1463
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:18 am

CTHEWORLD
I think you are right. I paid Kahala777 a compliment because he said something that actually had some merit and he insulted me twice.

Am I completely off base?

To all: Am I wrong to state that the employees of UA are suffering (I am talking now at a human level) would any of us who in some cases have to rely on that paycheck -- and some of them do -- want to be in that situation?

I am trying to offer a different perspective, trying to make a difference (although many don't think I have a chance in hell of doing anything...that's ok). that's it.

Why do such people have to be so mean? I don't get it.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
CTHEWORLD
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:27 am

RE: The Next 24 Hours At UAL

Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:34 am

Quoting BAW716 (Reply 99):
Why do such people have to be so mean? I don't get it.

Because Kahala is a bitter, demented freak.

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