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avek00
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AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:50 am

A press release straight from AC:


Air Canada Notifies Boeing of Aircraft Order Cancellation Following Results of Pilot Vote

MONTREAL, June 18 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada said today that it has been informed by the Air Canada Pilots Association (ACPA) that the tentative
agreement on costs and other issues relating to the Boeing order has been
rejected by the union membership. ACPA leadership had recommended ratification of the tentative agreement which had been negotiated with the assistance of Mediator Mr. M.G. Mitchnik. The Company accepts the pilots' decision and has notified Boeing of the order cancellation. The agreement with Boeing announced April 25 was subject to the successful completion of certain conditions including the negotiation of satisfactory terms by the airline with its pilots. The order is subject to cancellation without penalty.

"We are naturally disappointed at having to cancel the wide body aircraft
order but these aircraft can only be brought into our fleet on a pre-
determined economic basis. Despite best efforts on the part of ACPA, the
agreement has been rejected," said Montie Brewer, President and CEO of Air
Canada. "Following a successful restructuring, Air Canada has been transformed into a viable carrier. We cannot lose sight of the effort it took to get to where the airline is today and while the cancellation of this aircraft order will be disappointing to our employee group at large, including many of our pilots, it is the right decision given the circumstances."

"The cancellation of the order is not material to our business plan over
the next few years. There is no longer a requirement for a cash outlay to
secure the order and we will seek to find alternative aircraft (of types
covered by the current collective agreement) in the used market for the three
777-300ER aircraft contemplated for 2006 delivery under this order (two for
Q2/06 and a third during Q4/06). We will adjust our plans and it is
anticipated that the company will continue to grow on an unaltered basis. The
critical component of the Boeing order were the 787 aircraft scheduled for
delivery in 2010 and beyond to replace our Boeing 767 fleet. In time we will
re-address this requirement."

"I thank ACPA's leadership for their efforts to secure an agreement which
would have allowed us to go forward with ordering new aircraft at this time.
It is naturally my hope that in time we will find ways to bring new aircraft
into the fleet in a manner acceptable to the company and our pilots," said Mr.
Brewer.

The agreement with Boeing included firm orders for 18 Boeing 777s, plus
purchase rights for 18 more, in a mix of the 777 family's newest models: the
777-300ER, the 777-200LR Worldliner, and the newly announced 777 Freighter.

Air Canada's 777 deliveries were scheduled to begin next year with the arrival
of three 777-300ERs in 2006. The renewal plan also included firm orders for 14 Boeing 787 Dreamliners, scheduled for delivery in 2010.

Montréal-based Air Canada provides scheduled and charter air
transportation for passengers and cargo to more than 150 destinations on five
continents. Canada's flag carrier is the 14th largest commercial airline in
the world and serves more than 29 million customers annually. Air Canada is a founding member of Star Alliance providing the world's most comprehensive air transportation network.

http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi...ey=1306183496&view=13213-0&Start=0

[Edited 2005-06-19 04:55:09]
Live life to the fullest.
 
jetBlue
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:58 am

That's really very disappointing. It's sad to see the airline industry in this state. One can only hope things improve for all financially!

Certainly the most disappointing news regarding the new 777s and 787 developments.  Sad

jetBlue
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Boeing7E7
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:59 am

So this is what happens when the inmates run the asylum????

If your pilot group has that much pull you're screwed. Totally screwed.
 
727LOVER
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:03 pm

So that BIG, HUGE thread about the AC order was for nothing????? That was probably the biggeat thread on A.net-EVER!!!
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 3):
So that BIG, HUGE thread about the AC order was for nothing????? That was probably the biggeat thread on A.net-EVER!!!

Yeah. And I started the thread.
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:27 pm

Boeing Should Have Never Messed With The Sharktail..
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
SEAPlane10
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:31 pm

Quoting JetBlue (Reply 1):
Certainly the most disappointing news regarding the new 777s and 787 developments.

I agree....this has got to be a psychological blow to Boeing at the moment.

I guess this opens up some of the "near" delivery slots for the 787.

Let's hope Boeing can quickly round up some new customers to fill in for the slots being freed up.

Regards
 
jacobin777
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellati

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:43 pm

Quoting SEAPlane10 (Reply 6):

I agree....this has got to be a psychological blow to Boeing at the moment.

I guess this opens up some of the "near" delivery slots for the 787.

Let's hope Boeing can quickly round up some new customers to fill in for the slots being freed up.

Regards

I do not believe this has anything to do with Boeing itself, if Airbus had received it (for the A350, etc), it probably would have had the same sad and pathetic ending...

maybe someone else knows more about this..


any A345's/A330's in the works now for their fleet growth?

I think Boeing will be ok with their 777's and there is already a healthy backlog for the 787, thus they will have no problems getting the planes sold.

The only loser in this is AC.

[Edited 2005-06-19 05:47:48]
"Up the Irons!"
 
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alberchico
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:45 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 2):
If your pilot group has that much pull you're screwed. Totally screwed.

I 100% agree. Do they truly understand the need AC has for this aircraft?

Can this happen here in the U.S.?
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
Rj111
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:46 pm

Certainly pisses on Milton's single life ambition to get 777's at AC.

I always thought this order was irrational, although not for the reasons it's been cancelled. I always thought a 787/A346 mix would be the best option, perhaps this will happen further down the road.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:47 pm

Wow! Thats what happens when you let unions go so far! That is a total mess for Boeing and AC, what will they do???
 
yul332LX
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:49 pm

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 8):
Can this happen here in the U.S.?

Yes, these kind of ramifications have happened to a lot of US carriers in the past.
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
SEAPlane10
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:51 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
I do not believe this has anything to do with Boeing itself, if Airbus had received it (for the A350, etc), it probably would have had the same sad and pathetic ending...

I agree, I also believe (and beliefs are usually conjecture) that the cancellation had little to do with Boeing itself.

From Boeing's perspective, however, this order was significant to say the least, and any loss like this has to be a psychological blow.

By no means, however, is this irrecoverable....  optimist 
 
beauing
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellati

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:52 pm

I wonder how much of this is posturing and brinksmanship. Does it really all end here? Is it possible that in the future AC and its pilots will come to an agreement and the order will be bock on?

[Edited 2005-06-19 05:54:22]
 
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LAXintl
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:55 pm

You've gotta give the AC management some credit for having balls and sticking to their guns.
It was made very clear to the union that the 777/787 order was contingent on reaching agreement on appropriate competitive pay rates for the types, and a rejection would cause the cancellation of the order.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
calags
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:59 pm

I don't understand what the pilots were objecting to. Can anyone enlighten me on what was at stake for the pilots that they would reject an airliner order? Were they simply thinking that the money would've been better spent on salaries or are there some other provisions in the agreement that proved unpalatable to them?

Thanks.
 
Boeing744
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:01 pm

This is outrageous! I cannont belive AC is canceling all these planes, especially after all the marketing they have done about them. IMO AC can do without the 777s by ordering a few more 345s and phasing out their 343s and 333s, but the 787s I think are critical considering the age and operating costs of the 767s.
 
yul332LX
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:07 pm

Quoting Calags (Reply 15):
Can anyone enlighten me on what was at stake for the pilots that they would reject an airliner order?

The order involved the 773ER, which will seat considerably more pax than the current fleet of 333/343. Wages for this new aircraft type were reportedly an issue here.

Now, why was the 787 order cancelled too?

Could be the same reason if AC expects to seat a few more pax in the 787 compared to the 767s.


???
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
727LOVER
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:08 pm

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 8):
Can this happen here in the U.S.?

Wasn't DL forced to cancel a bunch of 777 because of pilot issues?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
commavia
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:14 pm

Could this possibly be an opportunity for AA to step in and offer to protect Boeing's delivery schedule, perhaps at a good price? Only dreaming! I doubt it will actually happen. On topic, however, I think this is sad news -- more so for AC than Boeing, but still sad news. Boeing will no doubt find some airline to replace AC in those delivery positions, definitely the 787 and probably the 777 too, but AC will no doubt suffer. Sad, very sad.
 
lawgman
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:39 pm

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 9):
Certainly pisses on Milton's single life ambition to get 777's at AC.

I always thought this order was irrational, although not for the reasons it's been cancelled. I always thought a 787/A346 mix would be the best option, perhaps this will happen further down the road.

They would absolutely have the same problem with the A346 and will the 777 and here is why:

At Air Canada (like many airlines), the pilots are (irrationally) paid based upon the size of the plane. If you introduce a new larger plane (like the 777-300er), the pilots will expect to get paid more than they get for flying the 340-300 and 340-500 that AC currently flies. The new restructured Air Canada is all about cost certainty. Essentially they wanted to negotiate now, pilots salary for those flying the 777. My guess is that Air Canada was essentially proposing wages similar to the smaller 340 and 330 as a means to control cost and standardize pay across all widebodies. In Robert Milton’s book , he criticizes pay based on the size of the plane. In an interesting couple of paragraphs on the issue, he indicates that he supports a pay system based on seniority and not the size of the aircraft (in other words if a senior pilot wants to fly a 320 over a 330, they should not be penalized for this choice). He seems to indicate that he is a proponent of some type of seniority based system, even if only that pilots get the same rate for flying all widebodies such as KLM or Lufthansa. My guess is that Air Canada was trying to accomplish something like this. The big loser here is Air Canada, as it will not be able to purchase any planes larger than the 340-300 or 340-500 without being highjacked by the union. If this was an order for the 340-600, it would be doomed to the same fate.

I think MIlton's critisism of the pilot's union in his book did not help the cause in this vote.
 
flymia
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:51 pm

This is horrible news. I cant belive they could not get an agreement. Hopefully Boeing will find more orders which they should But AC? Who knows about that?
Are they expected to order any other planes or more of a certain type?
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
airtran737
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:52 pm

This is a huge blow to Boeing. My hope is that the pilots realize that management doesn't care about their demands, and that they work this out so that the order can still be saved. Pathetic on the part of the Air Canada pilots.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
YYZYUL
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:57 pm

i agree..jazz pilots now have a contract based on senority not on aircraft type..AC pilots should wake up..it is not the size that matters
 
iwok
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:59 pm

This is pretty bad news. Considering that the 350 has been significantly revamped since the last time AC considered it, it will be a lot harder to Boeing to get the order back.

I hope things work out.

iwok
 
AC787
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:00 pm

I'm shocked. Not to mention very sad as well. I'm hoping that this is just a game of brinkmenship and the union will quickly agree and the order will be back on or something because I have to say I was looking forward soooooo much to the 777s coming online next year. Not to mention the 787. Imagine if the new form of the 350 is actually of interest to AC compared to what they were offered before, could make for an interesting situation. Either way this issue better be solved soon or else I'm going to be very angry at my fav airline.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:01 pm

interesting to see if the 767s get redone by Boeing still, may have some clues in there...
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
Cruiser
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:06 pm

Here is Boeing's press release confirming the cancellation:

SEATTLE, June 18, 2005 -- We share Air Canada 's disappointment at today's developments because we are looking forward to being a part of Air Canada 's vision for leadership. We are seeing very strong demand for the 777 and the 787, and we believe we will have many opportunities to place these aircraft elsewhere.


http://www.boeing.com/news/breakingnews/2005/050618g.html


Certainly short, but certainly not sweet!
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
AC787
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:10 pm

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 27):
SEATTLE, June 18, 2005 -- We share Air Canada 's disappointment at today's developments because we are looking forward to being a part of Air Canada 's vision for leadership. We are seeing very strong demand for the 777 and the 787, and we believe we will have many opportunities to place these aircraft elsewhere.

 Sad I can't believe this is actually happening
 
ckfred
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:11 pm

My guess is that Boeing will be willing to hold the production slots for a period of time, although not very long, if AC management and the pilots' union think a revised agreement has a reasonable possibility of ratification.

Of course, if a major airline(s) were willing to take those production slots, Boeing would be hard-pressed to hold those slots for AC.

AC management must have assumed that in exchange for getting new airplanes, the pilots were willing to accept a contract that would give AC the finances to complete the purchases.
 
jacobin777
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellati

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:11 pm

If this order somehow "magically" goes to Airbus, I can certainly say I won't be on any AC aircraft anytime soon (not that I ever have been...).......

that being said, I think the same thing would probably happen to an Airbus A350 offer also, so I don't think it really had too much to do with Boeing per se, but rather the size of the planes....(but the 787 order cancellation doesn't make sense..)

I got the feeling this one isn't going to be solved and AC will be getting some A343's/A345's and possibly some A330's...


bummer because I was very excited to see some 777's in AC colours... Sad
"Up the Irons!"
 
FDXmech
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:13 pm

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 8):
I 100% agree. Do they truly understand the need AC has for this aircraft?

Not to mention A.net shares went down 14% upon learning of this breaking story. A.net stocks need firm aircraft orders to have a mutually beneficial rate of return for said stockholders.

Disclaimer; Past performance is no guarantee of future Airbus vs Boeing flamewars.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
SEAPlane10
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:15 pm

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 27):
We are seeing very strong demand for the 777 and the 787, and we believe we will have many opportunities to place these aircraft elsewhere.

Man...that is terse!

Given the tone, it doesn't seem Boeing is expecting to see any reversal of the cancellation.

This is really, really unfortunate....

Regards
 
AC787
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:16 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
I got the feeling this one isn't going to be solved and AC will be getting some A343's/A345's and possibly some A330's...

You'd think the pilots would come to their senses and realise what's happening. I'd imagine they didn't actually believe air canada would actually do this, honestly, how in their right minds can they vote against their airline having a modern fleet which will be on par with the best airlines in the world. Do they rlly need to be payed more to fly a 777 with 300 ppl from Toronto to Frankfurt instead of a 330 on the same route with 250 ppl. Usually I like to side with the pilots, but this one just doesn't make sense for me.

Was just looking at this month's Air Canada magasine and I found that Montie Brewer, AC CEO, has his email on for "suggestions". If anyone wants to send him an email telling him to quickly reverse his decision as I am doing now the adress is [email protected].

[Edited 2005-06-19 07:20:34]
 
BWIA330
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:17 pm

This is very dissapointing news. These aircraft are really great, its sad Air Canada has cancelled this huge order. Im sure there wouldnt be a problem filling these orders elsewhere. There was rumours of Air Transat getting either 787's or 777's. Does anyone know if this would ever happen or not? Would they be sticking to their 310's and 330's for a while? Same goes for Air Canada, would the Airbus fleet be sticking around for a long time?

Regards,

BWIA330
 
YYZYUL
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:18 pm

By the way this is or was my first post..AC pilots better figure this one out pretty fast or else they will be flying antiquated B-767 and older Airbus equipment and longing for aircraft that all the better airlines are flying..Get off your a***s and cooperate with Milton and the boys brgs frank
 
SNATH
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:18 pm

Here's my reaction:

(a) As an Aeroplan elite / *A Gold member I'm very disappointed.
(b) I don't think it's a huge blow to the B787 programme, since it's been selling like hot cakes and I'm sure other airlines will be lining up (as I'm writing this!) to get AC's delivery slots.
(c) I do see it as a blow to AC, as Milton's plan was to standardise the widebody fleet on two-engine planes with similar engines (GE90 ane GEnX) and cockpits. It looks as if this is not going to happen, which can only mean higher costs for AC.
(d) The conspiracy theorist inside me wonders whether the pilot issue was an excuse to cancel the order, as Airbus is making a better offer with the revamped A350.

Boy did this ruin my evening.  cry  I'm just back from a Manowar gig and they were crap. The last thing I wanted was to read about AC cancelling the Boeing order...

Incidentally, here's what Boeing has to say:

http://www.boeing.com/news/breakingnews/2005/050618g.html

SEATTLE, June 18, 2005 -- We share Air Canada 's disappointment at today's developments because we are looking forward to being a part of Air Canada 's vision for leadership. We are seeing very strong demand for the 777 and the 787, and we believe we will have many opportunities to place these aircraft elsewhere.

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
Cruiser
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:18 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 29):
My guess is that Boeing will be willing to hold the production slots for a period of time, although not very long, if AC management and the pilots' union think a revised agreement has a reasonable possibility of ratification

I thought that they had already granted them an extension which lasted until June 19th. In my opinion, there would have to be another vote before this is back on. Who knows, maybe they might try and get later delivery slots. At this time, all we can say is that it will probably hurt Air Canada in the long-run.

Cruiser
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
jacobin777
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:22 pm

Quoting AC787 (Reply 33):
Usually I like to side with the pilots, but this one just doesn't make sense for me

not for me either, considering they even went against the Pilot Union's leadership...

"Air Canada said today that it has been
informed by the Air Canada Pilots Association (ACPA) that the tentative
agreement on costs and other issues relating to the Boeing order has been
rejected by the union membership. ACPA leadership had recommended ratification
of the tentative agreement which had been negotiated with the assistance of
Mediator Mr. M.G. Mitchnik. The Company accepts the pilots' decision and has
notified Boeing of the order cancellation."

http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi...ey=1306183496&view=13213-0&Start=0

as I've been saying all along, Boeing won't have a problem with selling those planes....what a MAJOUR loss for AC (and those  butthead  pilots).....
"Up the Irons!"
 
tinpusher007
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:31 pm

Quoting Lawgman (Reply 20):
At Air Canada (like many airlines), the pilots are (irrationally) paid based upon the size of the plane.



Quoting Lawgman (Reply 20):
In an interesting couple of paragraphs on the issue, he indicates that he supports a pay system based on seniority and not the size of the aircraft (in other words if a senior pilot wants to fly a 320 over a 330, they should not be penalized for this choice).

Paying based entirely on seniority is flawed and heres why. The A330 has the potential to generate a lot more revenue than the A320. Lets say a first year capt. makes $50,000 a year and a 5 year capt makes $150,000. If a 320 driver decides he wants to stay on that aircraft, you think it makes sense for him to have such a high pay scale on a relatively small aircarft? The economics would actually be great on the 330, but not the 320.

Bigger aircraft carry more pax and cargo over longer distances and generally generate much more revenue than their smaller counterparts and thats why crews want more to fly them.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
SNATH
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:56 pm

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 40):

Dude, no, please, do not hold back. Just say what you really think!  Smile

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
ac7e7
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:56 pm

Pilot's pay should be based entirely on years of service only. You want to move up to a larger aircraft, fine, get in line.
 
YYZYUL
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:58 pm

TinPusher007 Your logic sounds correct..However you neglect to tell the whole storey..Like how many rotations does an A320 perform say YYZ-LGA with an average load factor of 80% compared to an A330 flying to Europe even with a 100% load factor..Which aircraft is actually generating more revenue for said carrier
 
CXYYZ
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RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:01 pm

Quoting Beauing (Reply 13):
I wonder how much of this is posturing and brinksmanship. Does it really all end here? Is it possible that in the future AC and its pilots will come to an agreement and the order will be bock on?

I sure hope that AC put a deposit down on those slots with the order. I don't think that did, but it would be nice. Then maybe, just maybe, they'd be allowed to keep them for another little while and still get the planes in their projected time frame.

Quoting AC787 (Reply 33):
Usually I like to side with the pilots, but this one just doesn't make sense for me.

Exactly the same feeling here. I would love to know the reaction of the pilots who voted no. It's even possible the whole thing resulted from too many pilots voting no, not because they were opposed to the deal but because they wanted to "sent Milton a message" but without thinking it might not get ratified. I'd like to see a second vote held on the same contract and see what happens, though I'm sure that's almost guaranteed not to happen.
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:02 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 36):
(d) The conspiracy theorist inside me wonders whether the pilot issue was an excuse to cancel the order, as Airbus is making a better offer with the revamped A350.

Reading that thread without finding a theory that blames Airbus would have been a major disappointment...  sly 


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:04 pm

Quoting Udo (Reply 45):
Reading that thread without finding a theory that blames Airbus would have been a major disappointment...

We do have certain standards we have to maintain after all!!!!!!!!!!!  bigthumbsup 

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 19184
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:06 pm

Quoting Udo (Reply 45):
Reading that thread without finding a theory that blames Airbus would have been a major disappointment...

Indeed!  sarcastic 

So how are AC going to expand now? There are close to zero 767s, A330 and A340 available out there. Sad for AC's pax, but I can't see a way round this after both AC and Boeing issue press releases.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
intothinair
Posts: 479
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:05 pm

RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:06 pm

This is TERRIBLE news.
Just when I though the 777 was back on a roll, 18 aircraft get cancelled.
Terrible, I would have loved to see some 777's in AC colours.
Without this cancellation, Boeing would have had twice as many 777 orders as last year, and that with only 6 months gone.
So, this is how the 777 orders then stand this year:
ILFC: 6 773ER, and 2 772ER
Jet Airways: 6 772LR, and 4 773ER
Qatar Airways: 20 77?
Air France: 5 777F 4 773ER
Air India: 5 772LR 10 773ER
All Nippon: 4 773ER


That equals to 66 aircraft in total. Still quite a bit, but you have to consider that aircraft sales are booming this year. I JUST HOPE THE 777 CAN STILL REACH OVER 100 ORDERS THIS YEAR. Does anyone know if any other major 777 orders expected this year????

A bit off topic: Does anyone know how many orders the A346 has, on the new airbus website, this is not visible anymore, thanks!!!!!!!

Cheers, Konstantin G.
 
AC787
Posts: 330
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:25 am

RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:07 pm

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 40):
Bunch of a$$hole pilots. I'm sorry, but that is bullsh!t.

I'm glad to see someone else as dissapointed(Angry) as I am.
 
ac7e7
Posts: 763
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am

RE: AC Notifies Boeing Of 787/777 Order Cancellation

Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:08 pm

And another thing.... the lost deposit on those aircraft slots.... I say charge the union and it members. Bunch of a$$holes. They are always raining on everybody's parade. Look, I have much respect for pilots, especially the ones here at a.net. But this situation is absolutely crazy. Over 1.5 years working out this order and its details and now cancelled. What a load of crap and frankly, how embarrasing.

Call Vickers... we need some old sh!t.

[Edited 2005-06-19 08:09:44]

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