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Emirates773ER
Posts: 1325
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:10 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:24 am

EL AI certainly has the right to secure their passengers and planes but if this is coming at the cost of inconvenience to other people at the airport then certainly EL AI needs to targeted by the airport authorities. I think EL AI as an attitude problem with people who are faintly connected to Muslims or Arabs. They should know very well that we Muslims populate nearly 1/6th of the earth so where ever they go they are gonna bump into us somewhere. Treating everyone as a potential target does not help but knowing who could be the potential target does and that's what EL AI needs to work on.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15125
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:24 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 30):
Uh huh. Have you EVER experienced El Al security telling you to move?

More importantly, his comment cuts to the crux of all the 'anti-El Al security' comments. They stem from racism or just hatred of the idea of Israel, and anything Israeli.

It is possible this person has been asked to move by El Al security. But it is also likely, that in his lifetime, he has been asked to move by TONS of security from all sorts of sources, be they police, security guards, airline personnel, government building guards, sporting event security, concert security, club bouncers, etc. You name it, people tell people to move.

But it is OFFENSIVE if the El Al guard asks him to move. Hmmm. Singling out one race and treating that race differently is racism. It offends him that an El Al guard dare ask him to move, and this event sticks out in his mind above others. That's racism.

Similar comments about 'resenting' the extra security and the feelings that El Al thinks it is 'special' or causing 'trouble' are also comments of racism.

There's no border-line about it. Subtlety is not borderline, it's just how intelligent people couch their racist views.

PS - for those who think Israel is racist for suspecting people from certain countries of hating them and wanting to kill them, remember this:

A. These same countries don't allow an Israeli stamp in a passport.
B. These same countries publish maps and text books that don't include Israel on them.
C. The governments of each of these countries have publicly and repeatedly stated that Israel is Satan and must be destroyed.
D. The governments of these countries pay families of 'martyrs' who blow up school children on buses and teenagers at nightclubs.
E. The governments of these nations stifle and punish opposing viewpoints.

It is NOT racism for a nation to be mindful of a citizens of other nations that are taught to hate you and are actively trying to destroy you. It would be racism for an individual to condemn anyone from a religion or with a skin color that they didn't "agree" with. There is a BIG difference between the two actions.

No nation I know of that has sustained over a long period of time has been blind to the ambitions of "enemy" states. For the US, or Israel, or any other state to ignore such threats to please a feel good Utopian watchdog would be suicide.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:28 am

Look folks, unless you have flown Ly or traveled or lived in Israel you should not comment, but rather learn.

Israel has many many arab folks living in Israel and using TLV to get to Arab controlled areas.

As mentioned above, everyone and I mean everyone is questioned by LY and at the TLV airport.

I went to the mall in Herzlyia (A very upscale area by Tel Aviv) when I was working there last year and I had a bab with a shirt I had purchased. The first thing I was asked when walking into another store was "do you have a gun in there?"

I also had my passport checked and car searched at another mall in Central Tel Aviv.

I am not Arab and I did not mind
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
tsully
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 5:02 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:02 am

Having just returned from Tel Aviv a few weeks ago, I can tell you that they [Israelis] take airport security as a whole very seriously...as well they should.

Our flight from FRA-TLV on LH was uneventful...although there was additional security in FRA for the flight.

For our return flight on Lufthansa, we arrived TLV at 0200...allowing our group some 3 hours to check in for our flight to FRA.

Long story short, the security personnel [who are contracted employees] took their precious time processing passengers. This was the preliminary security line before you even reached the airline check-in counter.

After passing through the first security line, there were two additional security lines: the main security check area, and then security at the gate.

I spent 2.5 hours in that first security line. By the time I got to go through, I had 30 minutes before the departure of our plane. The security girls were nice enough, and kept insisting that the plane wouldn't leave without its passengers. "They [Lufthansa] know that you're still down here...and they won't let the plane go without you"...

In the back of my mind, I knew this was hogwash, because airlines [at least U.S. carriers] don't hold planes for anyone...not me and not even VVIPs. On-time departures are what count...not whether or not they have to re book me on the next flight. I'm rapidly digressing, but I was wondering if anyone knew more about this whole holding-the-plane issue. I know we have the DOT here in the USA which keeps tabs on the on-time performance of U.S. carriers. The DOT stats give airlines here in America plenty of incentive to be on time. I'm sure foreign airlines have their own incentives for being on-time...but are foreign carriers [in general] more likely to hold planes for various reasons?

I'll get back to my original topic...
With only 30 minutes to go before departure, I was elected to go to secondary screening. I'd say about 3 in 5 people at this point received this extra screening. Keep in mind, I have yet to even check in for my flight...which is now leaving in 20 minutes.

By now, Lufthansa agents are swarming about...collecting passports and tickets from everyone on the flight to FRA. There were 10 of us confirmed on the flight who were still at this first security checkpoint.
Eventually, the Lufthansa agent who had taken all of our documents returned (minus the documents) to say that it was too late to get on the plane. Furthermore, she added, the flight was oversold.

I had to fight with her to be put on the next plane to Frankfurt, as my friends who were on the Lufthansa plane would be waiting for me because we were going on to Vienna that afternoon.
I finally convinced the LH agent that the next LH flight to FRA would be too late...and she put me on LOT to WAW and then on to FRA.
What a bloody adventure, let me say that. At least I got 200 Euros for my inconvenience.
I'm glad that security is taken so seriously at TLV...but they need to figure out a more efficient process. They can't realistically expect to channel 300 people (there were other flights being screened with ours) through 2 machines if they intend on spending 15 minutes with every passenger.
I know the Israelis have their act together when it comes to air travel, so I'm thinking this was a one-time chaotic collapse. But I can also see how it would be easy to have a replay of this same situation...unless they open more lines for passenger processing.
BTW, the other people who were bumped off of the LH flight to FRA were routed back to LAX via EL AL and Air New Zealand [through LHR] and received 600 Euros for their troubles. The great part is that I was only about 1.5 hours behind my friends on arrival into FRA, and got 200 Euros.
I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
Jetblue15
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:27 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:33 am

Its very simple. El Al pays for all this security. That's why there fares are so high. I fly nothing else to Israel. Money and waiting in line is a VERY small price to pay for my life. Yes Israel is a small country with a some what small national airline but there methods of security are the best in the world. I'm not understanding how they get treated better or get special treatment. As far as I know its all on there own as far as paying for the security. People that fly them know the deal and know what to expect. You pay a lot of money for the security. Everytime a plane comes in a JFK or taxis out you always see a 4x4 right next to week making sure nothing comes up to the plane. Paid for by the airline. All MX and cleaning personal along with equiment such as vacums and such are screened or taking apart everytime the plane is borded. Constent monitoring of the aircraft whether it be at a hardstand or at the gate by sercurity which is again paid for by the airline. So back to special treatment. Whos giving them this treatment? Perhaps I'm wrong in all this but to some up my point. El Al is the only one giving special treatment and paying for it or you might even say you as the customer are.

Jetblue15
racecar spelled backwards spells racecar
 
wardialer
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 1:08 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:51 am

In Budapest ,Hungary they even have commandos with TEC-9 machine guns ON THE RAMP.... (And Zurich airport too)..

In the USA, that will never ever happen. Because like I said, people want comfort travelling and not to be scared off. Thats the big problem here....
 
SE210Caravelle
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:01 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:37 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 30):
As long as the people with that skin color and accent continue to want to hijack airplanes and destroy my country, yes. When they get their house in order, they can board their JFK-FLL flight at ease.

That's riduculous, ignorant and just cruel and hateful. Everyone is an individual and becuase someone may be black, live in the ghetto and dress in baggy clothes, does not mean that they do drugs and partake in gang activity! It is utterly cruel to lump races together! A shame...

Quoting FlyMeToTheMoon (Reply 33):
for those who posted messages lumping people of a color or religion all together and claimed that they wanted to "destroy their country" please try not to do it. It only shows ignorance, bigotry and a fundamental lack respect for individuals. We each are unique!

I agree 100%.

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 43):
I think ALL airlines should be like that. Even before the 9/11 attacks happened...but no! because people prefer convenience over security...Thats the problem.

When security goes to far our lives become bland and overly controlled. One terrorist attack and the country; the continent; the world is flipped upside down. Learn what we did wrong and make a small adjustment to help ensure it doesn't happen again but don't overdue it.

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 44):
Profiling is done all over the world and it WORKS !!!

That doesn't mean it is right. Searching a murder's house without a warrant works and is beneficial to the district attorney and even the people but doesnt mean it is right.

Quoting BNANative (Reply 47):
I can assure you that there is nothing racist in the way they [EL Al] question and try to intimidate EVERYBODY

Good. That's the way it should be.

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 53):
Look folks, unless you have flown Ly or traveled or lived in Israel you should not comment, but rather learn.

We all have opinions and we all should share them. I am against sexual harrasment but have never been directly effected by it, yet still make insightful and post worthy comments that share my prospective.

Thanks.
 
jonty
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:10 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:45 am

Quoting RJpieces reply 30: "As long as the people with that skin color and accent continue to want to hijack airplanes and destroy my country, yes. When they get their house in order, they can board their JFK-FLL flight at ease.
Have you EVER experienced El Al security telling you to move? Or are you just using El Al as an excuse to vent your Israel hatred?"
As Natan Sharasnky has brilliantly wrote about, every Arab country is a dictatorship/fear society and dictatorships need external enemies to keep their populations content. In the Arab world, the obvious external enemies are Israel and the US.


The things you say here just seem to be racist and ignorant! Its not every Arabic looking person that wants Israel destroyed the ones who do want that are just more publicised, that's all, there are moderate people out there! And as for your Natan Sharasnky quote, you talk as if there is no other reason apart from keeping a population occupied for hatred of Israel. I'm not getting into it, but there are more reasons than that I guarantee you!

Ikramerica Reply 52: "A. These same countries don't allow an Israeli stamp in a passport.
B. These same countries publish maps and text books that don't include Israel on them."


But neither does Cyprus if you have been to Northern Cyprus for more than 2 days. And people were refused travel after German re-unification with east German passports as the countries no longer existed. I know its over the top, but not that different from the rest of the world. And as for point B: these countries you talk about don't recognise Israel's existence so why should it be on their maps! Do your maps in America show every 'country' in the world, I think not. There are articles on the BBC website about countries that according to most don't exist, so if you really want your maps to be accurate then read those articles and alter all of your maps! I'm not saying their right for not doing it, but they are not the only ones, and its not only America that ignores certain countries, these countries are'nt on my maps either so I'm not pointing fingers, just pointing out!

The best thing written on here today I think!:
Quoting FlyMeToTheMoon (Reply 33):
In closing I cannot resist the following comment - for those who posted messages lumping people of a color or religion all together and claimed that they wanted to "destroy their country" please try not to do it. It only shows ignorance, bigotry and a fundamental lack respect for individuals. We each are unique!


Back to the issue, as that was way off it, but I just couldn't help commenting, sorry!

EL Al pay for the security, or at least it is paid for on their behalf, so why can't they have it if airports are willing. They need it as they are a target for terrorism and there is no denying it. If they want it, let them have it, I would feel safer with it. They may stereotyping in their security checks, I do not know, but if they are they are only doing this because the stereotypes come from reality and they want to be extra careful! Its no real inconvenience to the airports, I think, to have it there so why not?

Just my two pence as everyone like to say on here
Jonathan
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:48 am

Quoting SE210Caravelle (Reply 57):
We all have opinions and we all should share them. I am against sexual harrasment but have never been directly effected by it, yet still make insightful and post worthy comments that share my prospective.

Thanks.

Opinions based on incomplete knoweldge causes more problems on A.net than just about anything other than Peter Max, A vs. B or NW DC-9s. Someone in here assumed they pick out Arab "looking" people for extra security and that is false.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:53 am

I know the Israelis have their act together when it comes to air travel, so I'm thinking this was a one-time chaotic collapse.

I don't suppose you were there the night of June 9th/early morning June 10th. I was with a group and the regular lines were simply not moving...I heard that some of the machines broke down. Thankfully they opened a special line for my group and it was a breeze from there.

In the USA, that will never ever happen. Because like I said, people want comfort travelling and not to be scared off. Thats the big problem here....

That's not true. People want security today more than ever. The problem in the USA is that we have thousands and thousands of flights a day compared to El Al's several hundred. It's simply not practical to have El Al type security in the US. As I mentioned above, we definitly adopt certain El Al procedures though.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
SE210Caravelle
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:01 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:55 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 59):
Opinions based on incomplete knoweldge causes more problems on A.net than just about anything other than Peter Max, A vs. B or NW DC-9s. Someone in here assumed they pick out Arab "looking" people for extra security and that is false.

Lol, ok fair enough. But as long as we don't share incorrect information and instead state our opinions I feel that that is reasonable, wouldn't you agree?
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:57 am

Quoting SE210Caravelle (Reply 61):
state our opinions I feel that that is reasonable, wouldn't you agree?

I can agree with that statement
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1050
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:35 am

Quoting Ultrapig (Reply 14):
El Al gets special treatment

No they don't! The do all of that themselves with the help of the Israeli government. The name of this thread is misleading.
 
Jetblue15
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:27 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:49 am

Exactly. There is no special treatment. This whole topic is simply ridiculous. Nobody should be commenting unless you've flown on the airline or know factual information. Some of the things on this thread are out right wrong and stupid and my I add offensive. The topic is being dragged into a bad direction.
racecar spelled backwards spells racecar
 
cinek777
Topic Author
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:57 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 11):
May I ask why this is an issue for you?

The other day an EL AL aircraft arrived and I was talking to a BA pilot and he told it would be nice if we had treatment like that a police escort from the runway armed personal on the jetbridge.

Do the us airlines have security when they depart or arrive in Israel?
If it's not Boeing dont fly.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:01 am

The other day an EL AL aircraft arrived and I was talking to a BA pilot and he told it would be nice if we had treatment like that a police escort from the runway armed personal on the jetbridge.

BA could have whatever security they want. If they want to pay for the measures that El Al takes, they are more than free to do so.

Do the us airlines have security when they depart or arrive in Israel?

As has been mentioned COUNTLESS times in this thread, ALL airlines have the same amount of security at TLV. It is one of the most secure airports in the world--You need to pass through security in your car before even reaching the terminal.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:04 am

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 55):
Yes Israel is a small country with a some what small national airline but there methods of security are the best in the world.

No question about it. Israel, and El Al, could teach the entire world -- and the ordinarily fairly trusting U.S. -- a thing or two about security. The Israelis have perfected security to such a degree and raised it to a high art. As someone else on this thread said, they look for bombers, and not bombs, which is a much more logical -- and effective -- approach to minimizing threats to commercial aircraft. You can't argue with results!

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 55):
So back to special treatment. Whos giving them this treatment? Perhaps I'm wrong in all this but to some up my point. El Al is the only one giving special treatment and paying for it or you might even say you as the customer are.

I think (not sure) that what the OP was perhaps referring to was how El Al gets to do its own security, in every facet of the operations, at every one of its stations worldwide, which other airlines (apparently, I don't know, but I guess this is the implication) don't. While it is true that El Al is allowed to do its own security, under all circumstances, at all the airports it serves, I don't think that is unreasonable at all given the relationship between Israel and the rest of the world, and the fact that just about every country on earth short of a few wouldn't really mind too much to see the whole country just sink into the sea. El Al needs to do its own security and, quite honestly, it would be nice if all the airports it serves sought some advice from them on how it's done!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:49 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 45):
El Al pays for the extra security. They have to. About a third of the global population is against Israel even existing.

care to substantiate it? Don't make baseless comments unless you have any sort of proof.

Quoting BNANative (Reply 47):
This isn't done to discipline the children, as it might be in the U.S.. It is because groups of schoolchildren have been attacked and murdered in the past

yah..and what is the ratio of Palestinian kids murdered by the hands of the Israeli Military Occupiers to the Jewish kids dying by the terrorists??

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 49):
As Natan Sharasnky has brilliantly wrote about, every Arab country is a dictatorship/fear society and dictatorships need external enemies to keep their populations content. In the Arab world, the obvious external enemies are Israel and the US.

gee..I wonder if he isn't completely pro-Israel..

"In 1988, he was elected President of the newly created Zionist Forum, the umbrella organization of former Soviet activists. He also served as an associate editor of the Jerusalem Report."

"In February 2003, Natan Sharansky was appointed Minister without Portfolio, responsible for Jerusalem, social and Diaspora affairs.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/sharansky.html

Quoting CXYYZ (Reply 48):

That said, LY can have all the security they want as far as I'm concerned. So long as LY pays the bills and it doesn't interfere with other users of the airports they serve.

that's exactly what I've been saying... thumbsup 

Quoting CXYYZ (Reply 48):
Telling a foreign government to remove a mosque is interfering in my books, btw.

100% agree and I wouldn't want BOM to remove a synagogue just for EK if EK wanted to land in BOM and a synagogue was along the flight path.... now if it's a security threat for the vast majority of airliners, then I could agree with moving the synagogue or mosque

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 49):
Hence me asking you the question. Has El Al security ever personally removed you from somewhere--Or is it just a story you heard from your brothers friends girlfriends dog's veterinarian?

actually, it was the brother's friends girlfriends dog's veterinarian's parrot.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 52):
:

A. These same countries don't allow an Israeli stamp in a passport.

and some do..such as Egypt and Jordan, if other countries had diplomatic ties with Isreal, they would too....

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 52):
B. These same countries publish maps and text books that don't include Israel on them.
C. The governments of each of these countries have publicly and repeatedly stated that Israel is Satan and must be destroyed.

and there are many isrealis, who if had the power, would be printing Isreal without the State of Palestine too..and when there is going to be a State of Palestine, many Isrealis will refuse to recognise it...once again, it works both ways..

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 52):
D. The governments of these countries pay families of 'martyrs' who blow up school children on buses and teenagers at nightclubs.

if they were getting tens of billions of dollars in economic aid and were getting all of the latest and greatest military items, you wouldn't be seeing them on suicide bombing runs either....

treat a human as a caged animal, and see what you get..

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 52):
E. The governments of these nations stifle and punish opposing viewpoints.

most had (and still have) something to do with the United States govt. propping them up......

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 55):
Money and waiting in line is a VERY small price to pay for my life.

besides 9/11, which was a "one-off", what's the probability of one's plane being hijacked? There are other things to be concerned with...

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 55):
I'm not understanding how they get treated better or get special treatment.

i'm not sure if they get special treatement via "free service"..and if they pay for it, good for them, I have no problem with it, but if its against people's liberty, then I have a problem with it (with all carriers, not just LY).....and requesting the demolishing of a mosque was a bit too far......I'm glad the Indian Govt. refused.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 30):

As long as the people with that skin color and accent continue to want to hijack airplanes and destroy my country, yes. When they get their house in order, they can board their JFK-FLL flight at ease

welcome to my DISRESPECTED users list..!!  butthead ....

your comments are as groundless and racist as they come..... footinmouth 

maybe you should think or  tapedshut  before you open your vile gob.
"Up the Irons!"
 
tsully
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 5:02 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:56 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 60):
I don't suppose you were there the night of June 9th/early morning June 10th. I was with a group and the regular lines were simply not moving...I heard that some of the machines broke down. Thankfully they opened a special line for my group and it was a breeze from there.

Nah, we were flying out of TLV very early on the 31st of May...so we got to the airport at about 0200 for a 0520 flight or something.
Thats the SAME CRAP that they told us: "our machines are broken...so we only have 2 which are operational..."
They had 4 lanes open, but our group was relegated to the 2 inner lines...other passengers kept passing us on the outer lines, but the security personnel couldn't have cared less. I got rather pissed, as I had been standing in line for 2 hours and had barely moved 3 feet, while other people were zipping right along.
Frustrating, but ultimately worth the 200 euros and brief trip to WAW. Not to mention I had never flown LOT before...
All in all a fine experience...but it still aggravates me to think about the way they processed us. But you can't put a price on safety, I suppose. Whatever it takes...
I will also say that I thought TLV is a VERY nice airport. The never-ending walk from the plane to immigration and baggage claim reminded me of the Getty Museum in LA. We arrived TLV from FRA at 0330 or something. The place was brimming with activity even at that awful hour.
I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:15 am

gee..I wonder if he isn't completely pro-Israel..

His book found quite an audience with President Bush. Google "Natan Sharansky President Bush" and read away.

and there are many isrealis, who if had the power, would be printing Isreal without the State of Palestine too..and when there is going to be a State of Palestine, many Isrealis will refuse to recognise it...once again, it works both ways..

There are always extremists everywhere. But most mainstream Israelis support the creation of a Palestinian state. Heck, they have offered the Palestinians a state COUNTLESS times since 1937. Get your facts straight before posting.

We arrived TLV from FRA at 0330 or something. The place was brimming with activity even at that awful hour.

Same with me....I was amazed at how much activity they had for the middle of the night.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
flyinHi
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:12 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:30 am

"Money and waiting in line is a VERY small price to pay for my life."

...stop going out to the sun, you might get skin cancer... and dont eat anything greasy because you could get heart disease...

my point being that we cant over protect ourselves. that is living in fear, and that is exactly what the 'terrorists' want. I still dont understand why aviation is such a target when frankly you could do more damage and instill more fear on a society by attacking a less suspecting target (such as a crowded sporting event, or even worse, a mall in suburbia)....

I am not ready to stop living and inconvenience myself to try in vain to protect myself from an existing but relatively small threat.... I am more likely to die in a car accident getting hit by a drunk driver, or get cancer, or a heart attack, etc... etc...

As for airport security... congratulations friends, we are all very good at hindsight. now what are we going to do when a bomber decides to blow him/herself up in the 1st security line?

All i'm saying is that we cant protect ourselves from everything. Our excessive security in the united states (which in my opinion is inefficient and uneffective) is only going to hurt the economic situations of airlines, and detract travelers from air transportation...

and for those of you who are singling out a particular ethnic group as those responsible for terrorist attacks: remember who was responsible for the bombing at oklahoma city, the bomb at the atlanta olympics, and the shooting at columbine high school...
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:14 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 70):
There are always extremists everywhere. But most mainstream Israelis support the creation of a Palestinian state. Heck, they have offered the Palestinians a state COUNTLESS times since 1937. Get your facts straight before posting.

and what was/is the "viable Palestinian state" consisting of?

and where did I mention that Isreal wasn't willing to give the Palestinians some kind of statehood  confused .....

Quoting FlyinHI (Reply 71):
I am not ready to stop living and inconvenience myself to try in vain to protect myself from an existing but relatively small threat.... I am more likely to die in a car accident getting hit by a drunk driver, or get cancer, or a heart attack, etc... etc...

gosh..I wish people would understand this simple concept....

Once again, this has nothing to do with any particular carrier in general, but I really do not want my liberties taken away because some air carrier wants to fly to a particular airport....!!!
"Up the Irons!"
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:45 pm

and what was/is the "viable Palestinian state" consisting of?

The year 2000 ring a bell? 97% of what they wanted, including East Jerusalem. They turned it down.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
zonky
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:31 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:35 pm

Quoting Ultrapig (Reply 14):
El Al gets special treatment because the Palestinians, Yassar Arafat and Black September invented Airplane hijacking starting with the three plane action in 1970.

Actually, one of the very first hijacking was by the Israeli Military.

On 12 December 1954 Israel hijacked a civilian Syrian airliner shortly after take-off.
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 30120
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:03 pm

Quoting Zonky (Reply 74):
On 12 December 1954 Israel hijacked a civilian Syrian airliner shortly after take-off.

Whats the story about.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
beeweel15
Posts: 1022
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:18 pm

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 64):
Exactly. There is no special treatment. This whole topic is simply ridiculous. Nobody should be commenting unless you've flown on the airline or know factual information. Some of the things on this thread are out right wrong and stupid and my I add offensive. The topic is being dragged into a bad direction.

While some of what you said is true if you work at Terminal 6 ( JetBlue ) at JFK you do not work anywhere near to EL AL. I work at IAT on a daily basis and I can tell you it is a pain working around EL AL. Let me give you a few examples:

1 - If your aircraft is at the gate with a slight delay and EL AL is coming in you will have everyone being hounded by EL AL to get you off the gate but if EL AL is there you are treated like you are nobody and your plane has to sit and wait to get the gate.

2 - If you are working on your aircraft and EL AL is coming to the gate next to you they will force you to stop your load and move your items away from the gate mind you none of the stuff is in the way of EL AL. If you have sealed cargo to be loaded on your aircraft they will open it. Now reverse the situation and they would not give a dam about you.

3 - In the baggage room when your flight is on belt 2 while El AL is on belt 1 sometimes the bags miss feed you can go to their belt and pick up your bags but they have a security person on your belt in your way . Al though they say for us not to touch the bags I pick them up and through them to the center of the road the same way they through mine . Another thing they like to close the bagroom doors and many a time we have called terminal security to complain about this cause when our flight is in operation and it is 90 degrees out side we need some sort of air coming in if they want to roast that is their business.

4 - El AL is to me a very racist airline. They only allow the black folks to do the loading and cleaning of the bags and planes. It is a known fact that they have told their handler not to hire any jewish people to do that sort of work. And I have see with my own eyes at cargo where a jewish girl was so happy just to go clean the el al cargo plane and when she said hello to them in hebrew they hussled her off the plane in a flash and the next day we got calls and memos for her not to be placed any where near their planes.

These are just a few things but I can tell you terminal 6 is a far cry from terminal 4 with EL AL there. I think EL AL should be moved to where Tower Air use to be that way they have their own terminal and will be out of everyones way .

4 -
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:54 pm

1 - If your aircraft is at the gate with a slight delay and EL AL is coming in you will have everyone being hounded by EL AL to get you off the gate but if EL AL is there you are treated like you are nobody and your plane has to sit and wait to get the gate.

I was under the impression that El Al has dedicated gates at JFK....What airline do you work for that uses El Al's gates at T4?

2 - If you are working on your aircraft and EL AL is coming to the gate next to you they will force you to stop your load and move your items away from the gate mind you none of the stuff is in the way of EL AL. If you have sealed cargo to be loaded on your aircraft they will open it. Now reverse the situation and they would not give a dam about you.

What do you mean, they will force you to stop your load?

4 - El AL is to me a very racist airline. They only allow the black folks to do the loading and cleaning of the bags and planes.

First off, NO AIRLINE only allows a certain race of employees to work for them. Second, I'll wager that the majority of cleaners at JFK are blacks. Does it not make sense then that those who clean El Al aircraft (probably the same ones who clean MANY aircraft at JFK) are thus black?

It is a known fact that they have told their handler not to hire any jewish people to do that sort of work. And I have see with my own eyes at cargo where a jewish girl was so happy just to go clean the el al cargo plane and when she said hello to them in hebrew they hussled her off the plane in a flash and the next day we got calls and memos for her not to be placed any where near their planes.

Uh huh. A very "well known" fact. With all due respect, do you work for El Al? Because I find it hard to believe that you are in a position to observe internal actions on El Al aircraft...Unless of course you're related to Jacobin777 above.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Blasphemystic
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:48 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:05 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 30):
As long as the people with that skin color and accent continue to want to hijack airplanes and destroy my country, yes. When they get their house in order, they can board their JFK-FLL flight at ease.

You are my friend as ignorant as the would be bombers.   
Not to mention the ass kick you would get if I ever ran into you  box 

[Edited 2005-07-02 09:07:37]
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -- Samuel Johnson
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:07 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 73):

The year 2000 ring a bell? 97% of what they wanted, including East Jerusalem. They turned it down.

97% of what they wanted? you SERIOUSLY must be kidding me...

it was 97% of an ALREADY REDUCED piece of land.........

and may I ask who has been violating TONS of United Nations Sanctions and Resolutions? (oh wait, the United Nations Resolutions mean nothing, except for when GWBush needed to invade Iraq)..

and which country has been building ILLEGAL settlements for DECADES...?? Care to explain...genius?

I think I can go on for a long time, but I shall no longer discuss this topic with you.......

your childish peon brain seems to believe that I'm some sort of racist, when the sad fact of the matter is none of my comments have been racist in manner, yet some of yours have (which makes you a hypocrite).....I have proven my points time and time again, yet you make groundless and baseless comments..

seems to me as if you enjoy  stirthepot 
"Up the Irons!"
 
rjpieces
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:13 pm

Jacobin, there have been countless threads on the issue. Do a search.

You are my friend as ignorant as the would be bombers.

Uh huh. Instead of blasting me, please tell me why what I said was wrong. Why should an Arab person boarding an aircraft get the same amount of security as an elderly grandmother? It simply makes NO sense and is an inefficient way of using limited resources. Focus security on those likely to be a threat. Call a spade a spade.

[Edited 2005-07-02 09:20:07]
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
rjpieces
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:19 pm

Also, for those of you blasting profiling, keep in mind that IF EXTRA ATTENTION had been paid to the 9/11 hijackers, it never would have happened. If security had given extra screening to Richard Reid, he would never have gotten on that aircraft. Profiling doesn't protect aircraft 100%; It stops would be hijackers/suicide attacks from getting on and that is one of the biggest threats to planes.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Blasphemystic
Posts: 197
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:19 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 80):
Uh huh. Instead of blasting me, please tell me why what I said was wrong. Why should an Arab boarding an aircraft get the same amount of security as an elderly grandmother? Call a spade a spade.

Because he could be just as concerned for his security and safety as you might be. Do you ever think there might be Arab people (as your put it "THAT SKIN COLOR" which might include more than Arabs) who just wants to board a plane and get where they are going without causing or facing any issues??? Think my friend...THINK!
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -- Samuel Johnson
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:25 pm

Because he could be just as concerned for his security and safety as you might be. Do you ever think there might be Arab people (as your put it "THAT SKIN COLOR" which might include more than Arabs) who just wants to board a plane and get where they are going without causing or facing any issues??? Think my friend...THINK!

First off, I was not the one who said "THAT SKIN COLOR". Second, absolutely, 100% positively there are peaceful Arab Americans who want nothing more than to start their vacation in Orlando. But sadly, in the world we live in, Arabs are more likely to hijack aircraft than others. This does not mean that all Muslims are terrorists (although some would argue that all terrorists are Muslims...). For the safety of ALL Americans, including Arab Americans, racial profiling should be allowed. Until the Arab world is synonymous for great accomplishments in the world, and not for terrorism, I will support racial profiling. It simply makes sense and the risks of not doing it aren't worth it in the 21st century.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
rjpieces
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:35 pm

Also, let me add that profiling doesn't mean that every dark-skinned person goes on one line and whites in another. Absolutely not what I, or most people, mean when I say I support profiling. By profiling, I mean that airport security should have a professional staff trained by El Al that is able to pick out suspicious passengers, that is trained to psychologically test passengers by asking various questions and that examines lists of passengers and picks out potential hijackers. And if an Arab person has travelled extensively throughout the Middle East, then yes, I'd expect that this person would be picked for extra questioning.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 30120
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:09 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 83):
Also, let me add that profiling doesn't mean that every dark-skinned person goes on one line and whites in another

Wouldn't it be Qualification & Education based Job allottments.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:46 pm

Quoting Cinek777 (Reply 64):
The other day an EL AL aircraft arrived and I was talking to a BA pilot and he told it would be nice if we had treatment like that a police escort from the runway armed personal on the jetbridge.

Do the us airlines have security when they depart or arrive in

Well if BA would pay foir security then they could have it. Give me a break.

The US airlines only have the passanger pre-screen clearance to the TSA , they do not pay for police escorts.

I can tell you at TLV , ALL the airlines get the same security as LY from my experience, it was quite good.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
jonty
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:10 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:34 pm

RJpieces: "There are always extremists everywhere. But most mainstream Israelis support the creation of a Palestinian state. Heck, they have offered the Palestinians a state COUNTLESS times since 1937. Get your facts straight before posting."

First of all I don't know how Israel offered Palestine a state in 1937 as it was still a British protectorate then and the UNO didn't exist so only the British would have been in a position to do this. And before partition, who were the 'Israelis' to offer anything to anyone, it wasn't their country and most of them were immigrants to the area anyway. How would you like it if Europeans all emmigrated to America and then offered you a small part of what was yours and treat you like you treat Palestinians when they said no?

"Call a spade a spade."

I cannot actually believe you just put that! This just shows that you are one of these more extreme pro-Israelis who think that the palestinians should be thankful to get any little scraps Israel decides to throw their way in a country that they shouldn't be in in the first place.
Despite the fact that it was their country to start with!

But everyone is there now and there is nothing that we can do about that, so both side need to work together to reach a real solution rather than one that involves Israel giving up the minimum possible!
 
Jetblue15
Posts: 269
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:40 pm

Jacobin777

Why don't you quote people the right way. I hope the more educated people on this site went up to my FULL post and read the rest of what I had to say. And I'm sorry. But a plane getting hijacked is a major concern. What the hell were you trying to get out of the two sentences that you quoted me on?????????? Such a weak mined person you must be. Its really sad how bad and out of hand this topic has gotten. IF YOU DONT LIKE THE POLICYS DON"T FLY THEM. Plane and simple.
racecar spelled backwards spells racecar
 
avek00
Posts: 3261
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:02 am

Looking for "bombers" does not mean solely profiling pax based on race/nationality. Contrary to popular a.net belief, such a system would prove highly ineffective and create large security holes. To be blunt, some of the 9/11 hijackers could have passed for African-Americans, and the US Government has already made clear that al-Qaeda is actively recruiting persons of EUROPEAN descent to carry out future mass terrorist attacks in order to play on Western racist stereotypes on persons likely to be terrorists.

Far more effective (and the system utilized by El Al) is to use COMPOSITE profiling that considers ethnicity/national origin along with other factors such as itinerary particulars and individual pax behaviors.
Live life to the fullest.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:42 am

First of all I don't know how Israel offered Palestine a state in 1937 as it was still a British protectorate then and the UNO didn't exist so only the British would have been in a position to do this.

It was the BRITISH who offered....It's called the Peel Commission.

I cannot actually believe you just put that! This just shows that you are one of these more extreme pro-Israelis who think that the palestinians should be thankful to get any little scraps Israel decides to throw their way in a country that they shouldn't be in in the first place.
Despite the fact that it was their country to start with!


Before you post, please READ the dam threads. That comment had nothing to do with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Far more effective (and the system utilized by El Al) is to use COMPOSITE profiling that considers ethnicity/national origin along with other factors such as itinerary particulars and individual pax behaviors.

Bingo.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
zrs70
Posts: 3782
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:49 am

Amazing where the thread is heading. Here's another set of questions:

1) What would happen if the Palestineans put down their arms tomorrow?
2) What would happen if Israel put down its arms tomorrow?
21 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2021
 
david b.
Posts: 2894
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:18 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:50 am

He is a better question. Why hasn't this thread been locked?
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
SE210Caravelle
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:01 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:08 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 61):

I can agree with that statement

Awesome

Quoting Airbus3801 (Reply 62):
No they don't! The[y] [EL Al] do all of that [security] themselves with the help of the Israeli government.

Exactly. And that should put it to rest! EL Al does it by themselves!

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 82):
But sadly, in the world we live in, Arabs are more likely to hijack aircraft than others.

No they arn't. That's bullsh*t. Skin color should never determine political or private decisions or even influence prejudices. If all these people were white would you feel the need to do additional screening and questioning to all caucasian's who enter through security.

Thanks.
 
zrs70
Posts: 3782
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:14 am

Ok here's another question:

Think of the past ten hijacks. What were the nationalities of the hijackers?
21 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2021
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:24 am

Remember that the 2nd worst terrorist attack in the US occured in Oklahoma City and was perpitrated by 2 white trash rednecks.

Drop the race card, it is tired.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
SE210Caravelle
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:01 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:30 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 94):
Drop the race card, it is tired.

Exactly

Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 93):

Think of the past ten hijacks. What were the nationalities of the hijackers?

I do not care. I will continue to judge everyone equally.
 
Blasphemystic
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:48 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:33 am

Quoting SE210Caravelle (Reply 92):
No they aren't. That's bullsh*t. Skin color should never determine political or private decisions or even influence prejudices. If all these people were white would you feel the need to do additional screening and questioning to all caucasian's who enter through security.

I dont think so....cause they aint Arabs. When America commits atrocities against the world even as a country its forgivable and is blamed on one person. ie: the president of the country. When a buncha ignorant Arabs blow them selves up killing innocent people the whole Arab nation is blamed...THE END.
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -- Samuel Johnson
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:54 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 82):
First off, I was not the one who said "THAT SKIN COLOR"



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 29):
As long as the people with that skin color and accent continue to want to hijack airplanes and destroy my country, yes. When they get their house in order, they can board their JFK-FLL flight at ease.

you have NO credibility... talktothehand 

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 87):
Why don't you quote people the right way.

who said I misquoted you..in fact, I was in accordance with one of your comments.. and you other comment was that you were glad to pay for the extra security which made you feel safe from an LY plane getting hijacked and my retort was that the statistical probability of an air carrier getting hijacked is so slim that there are other things to be worried about...read what I wrote properly please before you make baseless accusations.

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 87):
major concern. What the hell were you trying to get out of the two sentences that you quoted me on?????????? Such a weak mined person you must be.

yes..indeed..weak minded I am..thanks for letting me know.... old 

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 87):
IF YOU DONT LIKE THE POLICYS DON"T FLY THEM.

I don't..... wave 
"Up the Irons!"
 
beeweel15
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:59 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:05 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 76):
I was under the impression that El Al has dedicated gates at JFK....What airline do you work for that uses El Al's gates at T4?

First off No airline has specific gates at Terminal 4. But if your plane is at a gate that EL AL is due to use and you do end up havinbg a slight delay they hound the terminal management to get you off that gate.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 76):
What do you mean, they will force you to stop your load?

The other day their security folks came over to our flight and told us to move the cargo we staged to load on our aircraft becaise they did not want it on the side next to their aircraft.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 76):
First off, NO AIRLINE only allows a certain race of employees to work for them. Second, I'll wager that the majority of cleaners at JFK are blacks. Does it not make sense then that those who clean El Al aircraft (probably the same ones who clean MANY aircraft at JFK) are thus black?

Yes the majority are blacks and minorities but there are no Jewish folks there because the ground handling company cannot hire jewish folks to do that kind of work as per EL AL.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 76):
Uh huh. A very "well known" fact. With all due respect, do you work for El Al? Because I find it hard to believe that you are in a position to observe internal actions on El Al aircraft...Unless of course you're related to Jacobin777 above.

NO I do not work with El AL. All I mentioned is from what I see and experience on a daily basis. If you are Jewish why dont you come and apply to Triangle Aviation Services and go and work the ramp doing EL AL and do the same dirty work and say hello to the security folks in hebrew you will be escourted off that plane so fast you wont know what happened. Also I am almost certain they will not put you through that embarising search they put all the Triangle workers through. Did you know that besides scanning you they make you take off your shoes and make you take down you pants partialy also all this in full view of everyone.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:24 am

First off No airline has specific gates at Terminal 4. But if your plane is at a gate that EL AL is due to use and you do end up havinbg a slight delay they hound the terminal management to get you off that gate.

So what other airlines use the gates that El Al normally uses? I don't think I've ever seen other airlines using the gates that El Al generally uses....

The other day their security folks came over to our flight and told us to move the cargo we staged to load on our aircraft becaise they did not want it on the side next to their aircraft.

That is reasonable and doesn't surprise me. I'm glad to see their security is that thorough.

Yes the majority are blacks and minorities but there are no Jewish folks there because the ground handling company cannot hire jewish folks to do that kind of work as per EL AL.

Hmmm, I'm wondering, are there ANY Jewish cleaners at JFK?

NO I do not work with El AL. All I mentioned is from what I see and experience on a daily basis. If you are Jewish why dont you come and apply to Triangle Aviation Services and go and work the ramp doing EL AL and do the same dirty work and say hello to the security folks in hebrew you will be escourted off that plane so fast you wont know what happened. Also I am almost certain they will not put you through that embarising search they put all the Triangle workers through. Did you know that besides scanning you they make you take off your shoes and make you take down you pants partialy also all this in full view of everyone.

First off, most Jews do not speak Hebrew. I don't see how speaking Hebrew disqualifies you from working for El Al at all. If anything, they want Hebrew speakers...But again, how are you in a position to know who El Al chooses to hire? I think you're just venting your obvious dislike for El Al security. And you didn't answer my question--How were you in a position to observe the internal happenings of an El Al cargo plane?

And finally, all workers near an El Al plane are checked by security, ALL.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"

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