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cinek777
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EL AL Special Treatment?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:17 pm

Why is it that El Al Airline get special treatment when they arrive to airports. They get extra security,armed guards,and they screen there bags like three times before leaving any where also everybody that work the flights get checked before and after working the flights. If American and United Airlines had special treatment like this 9/11 probably would have never happened.
If it's not Boeing dont fly.
 
dutchjet
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:24 pm

Take a look at world politics and all of the issues that Israel has encountered during its history, and that explains why security is paramount at EL AL and why their flights, world wide, are subject to special handling.
 
A330
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:32 pm

Because The EL Al is still a target for criminal acts against their aircraft.

To be honest, the EL AL precautions are sometimes over the top. Their security guards have the name to be very arrogant towards other airport employees. In general, EL Al is very much disliked by Airports around the world.
In Belgium, there was a row recently as EL Al didn't allow any darker skinned persons nor persons with an arabic sounding name to work near their aircraft/ luggage. This was returned by a refusal to of the handler to further service EL Al and to put a complaint of racism into court. In the end, EL Al had to allow any bagage handler/police officer assigned for handling the flight to do his/her work. Just arrogant, racist wankers... Not because of their indeed sometimes needed extra security, but for their arrogant behaviour. Just like their home country some would say...
Shiek!
 
777ER
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:36 pm

EL Al is very much disliked by Airports around the world. Why don't those airports refuse to allow EL AL to land/operate
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rootsair
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:40 pm

Quoting A330 (Reply 2):
Because The EL Al is still a target for criminal acts against their aircraft.

To be honest, the EL AL precautions are sometimes over the top. Their security guards have the name to be very arrogant towards other airport employees. In general, EL Al is very much disliked by Airports around the world.
In Belgium, there was a row recently as EL Al didn't allow any darker skinned persons nor persons with an arabic sounding name to work near their aircraft/ luggage. This was returned by a refusal to of the handler to further service EL Al and to put a complaint of racism into court. In the end, EL Al had to allow any bagage handler/police officer assigned for handling the flight to do his/her work. Just arrogant, racist wankers... Not because of their indeed sometimes needed extra security, but for their arrogant behaviour. Just like their home country some would say...

welcome to my RU list

EL Al is very much disliked by Airports around the world. Why don't those airports refuse to allow EL AL to land/operate

money !!!

[Edited 2005-07-01 10:43:53]
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
cinek777
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:07 pm

Quoting A330 (Reply 2):
Because The EL Al is still a target for criminal acts against their aircraft

It's not only El AL Airline that are targets the US planes are also targets.
If it's not Boeing dont fly.
 
dutchjet
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:21 pm

Quoting Cinek777 (Reply 5):

It's not only El AL Airline that are targets the US planes are also targets.

True - in fact, after 9/11, there was consultation between the US ans Israeli governments and airlines concerning security matters. EL AL and Israel does take security far more seriously as they consider every flight from every airport a potential target. Should the US do the same? That is a very long and complicated discussion that is very political in nature and probably not for a.net.

There are also practical matters to consider - Israel is a small country and EL AL (and other Israeli carriers) are not very big airlines - the situation can be subject to stricter controls. The US carriers are among the largest in the world, and the US has countless domestic and international flights to consider, I am not even sure that it would be possible to have Israeli-type security on every flight operated by a US carrier or everyflight operated into the US. It certainly would be very difficult to implement.

Note that all flights operating to/from Israel are subject to special security treatment -and EL AL goes even further.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:02 pm

I guess considering the Political situation in the Middle East.EL AL feels the need to be extra cautious.
A couple of months ago they had requested BOM Airportr Authorities to Demolish a Mosque on approach to Rnwy 27,qouting Terrorist could strike from there.
It was Refused.
The rest is history.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Trvlr
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:23 pm

This thread turned nasty quickly.

My advice: do a search, there's plenty that has already been said, although far too much of it, including some of this thread, is useless banter.

Dutchjet's comments here have been the most accurate so far.

Aaron G.
 
geoffm
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:56 pm

Quoting Trvlr (Reply 8):
This thread turned nasty quickly.

Where?

Quoting Cinek777 (Thread starter):

Apparently the Israeli government pays 75% of the costs. http://www.sacbee.com/static/archive/news/projects/terror/airline.html

Edit: That article is old but I'd found a newer one before that that backed up the statement.

Geoff M.

[Edited 2005-07-01 16:59:30]
 
pmg1704
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:01 am

Regardless how one may feel about Israel and its policies, Israel, and El Al as one of the most visible international manifestations of the state, have a long history of violence against them. Questioning why El Al Airline gets special treatment when they arrive to airports I think becomes clear.

July 23, 1968: An El Al plane en route from Rome to Israel was hijacked by Palestinians and landed in Algiers.

Feb. 18, 1969: Five members of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) attacked an El Al plane in Zurich, killing one crew member.

1969-November 27th- The El Al office in Athens was attacked. Innocent bystanders were killed

1970-September 6th- An attempt is made to hijack four planes. The attempt to hijack an El Al plane fails, while three other succeed. The planes all end up in the Jordanian desert.

Sept. 5, 1972: Eight members of the Black September terrorist group took 11 Israeli athletes hostage in the Munich Olympics, killing them all in what become known as the “Munich Massacre.”

1976-June 27 The Hijacking of Air France Flight 139 flying from Tel Aviv to Paris is diverted to the Entebbe airport in Uganda. Israeli commandos assault the airport, killing all the Palestinians and rescuing 105 hostages. Only three passengers and one commando were killed in the raid.

Aug. 11, 1976: PLO members attacked an El Al plane in Istanbul, Turkey, killing four and wounding 21

Aug. 20, 1978: PLO members attacked El Al crew members in the London airport, killing a stewardess and wounding eight

December 27, 1985: Four gunmen belonging to the Abu Nidal Organization attacked the El Al and Trans World Airlines ticket counters at Rome's Leonardo da Vinci Airport with grenades and automatic rifles. Thirteen persons were killed and 75 were wounded before Italian police and Israeli security guards killed three of the gunmen and captured the fourth. Three more Abu Nidal gunmen attacked the El Al ticket counter at Vienna's Schwechat Airport, killing three persons and wounding 30. Austrian police killed one of the gunmen and captured the others.

28 November, 2002- Arkia (another Israeli airline) B757 shot at by ground to air missiles on departure from MBA
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:01 am

Quoting Cinek777 (Thread starter):
Why is it that El Al Airline get special treatment when they arrive to airports. They get extra security,armed guards,and they screen there bags like three times before leaving any where also everybody that work the flights get checked before and after working the flights. If American and United Airlines had special treatment like this 9/11 probably would have never happened

they pay for the extra security, they feel that is the best way to operate their airline. They are free to operate the airline as they see fit, this is not special treatment.

this is at least the 3rd thread on this topic in the last 3 months as someone pointed out.

May I ask why this is an issue for you?
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
SE210Caravelle
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:30 am

Quoting Cinek777 (Thread starter):
If American and United Airlines had special treatment like this 9/11 probably would have never happened.

While I am somewhat unaware of the extensive security that EL Al operates (though I have heard of it), I still disagree with your comment. No matter how protected something maybe there is always some chance for terrorism or the like. A passenger today could board an aircraft and use almost anything found on the airplane as a weapon, even possibly make a small explosion using just some basic things (alcohol, baking soda, etc.). While the at times, over the top security, may be helpful it does not prevent an act of terrorism 100%, especially in the world of aviation where there will always be risks.

It would never have been guessed that passengers would board an aircraft and use box cutters as weapons and we still do not know the exact details of what took place on that day, in the air and in D.C.

From experience, I know that in O'Hare a person(s) could easily reach the tarmac with an explosive device without having to pass security or be stopped by security guards through the United terminal. What would happen on the tarmac, such as is there armed security that would be able to stop someone with hurtful motives, I do not know.

I do know that the events on 9/11 could never have been fathomed previous to them taking place and it would be pointless, expensive and almost impossible to protect all of the flights bound for and intra the U.S. as EL Al does their flights, due to the fact of America's immense daily flight network of over 30 airlines.

Thank you,

SE210Caravelle
 
zrs70
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:51 am

Gimme a break! If US airlines/ airports had EL AL security, flying would be much safer. The difference between the systems is this:

EL AL security looks for bombers.
US security looks for bombs.
21 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2021
 
ultrapig
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:53 am

El Al gets special treatment because the Palestinians, Yassar Arafat and Black September invented Airplane hijacking starting with the three plane action in 1970. Because of their tribal society which keeps the enormous wealth of their oil brothers to certain tribes (like the Saudis) they have lived in poverty and take out their frustrations against an easy target-

Cine777-Your comment is just plane (not airplane) antisemtic. When Jews are slaughtered people like you do and say nothing. When Jews try to defend themselves you brand them as aggressors.

I've flown El Al and yes the security measures are irriating and you are right the personnel sometimes are less than friendly but I've never been afraid.
 
SE210Caravelle
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:58 am

Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 13):

EL AL security looks for bombers.

What are you saying! That we should judge people by the color of their skin, the clothes they wear and the accent they speak in. And while we are at it let's make America a dictatorship.

Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 13):
If US airlines/ airports had EL AL security, flying would be much safer.

I agree 100%. But does that mean travelling will be 100% safe and that terrorism will be 100% elimnated? Of course not. And is it worth it to use such extensive security? In my opinion, not at all.

Thanks.
 
avi
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:04 am

Funny Cinek777,
You asked:

Quoting Cinek777 (Thread starter):
Why is it that El Al Airline get special treatment when they arrive to airports.

And you answered:

Quoting Cinek777 (Thread starter):
If American and United Airlines had special treatment like this 9/11 probably would have never happened.

One thing you should have done is to change the word probably with the word definitely.


RootsAir,

Do you really think money is what convinces countries to let El-Al landing at their territory? What a miserable statement.
Long live the B747
 
EDDM
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:17 am

Quoting SE210Caravelle (Reply 15):
And while we are at it let's make America a dictatorship.

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it."

Guess who said that.  duck 
 
slawko
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:18 am

Of course it's money....you think that if airports had to front the cost of building in all of ElAl's security "needs" they would do so just for the privilage of having ElAl at their airport?? The fact is that ElAl's extra security is paid for entirely by the Airline, no airport in its right mind would give this kind of special treatment to one airline, all of the other tenant airlines would have a fit. Take toronto as an example, there is currently an expansion going on at Terminal 3 and as part of that expansion ElAl is having a dedicated security screening area installed just before the regular CATSA screening area, so that their passengers are all screened twice before they get to the gate. The airport doesnt pay for that construction or development!!! Money is the only reason airports put up with ElAl's BS and thats a fact.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
SE210Caravelle
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:20 am

Quoting EDDM (Reply 17):
Guess who said that.

George W. Bush




Wow, what a statement for the president of the U.S. to make! That sure puts my faith in him!
 
EDDM
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:23 am

Quoting Slawko (Reply 18):
no airport in its right mind would give this kind of special treatment to one airline, all of the other tenant airlines would have a fit.

German airports do. Just sayin', not stating any opinion whatsoever.
 
commavia
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:24 am

Quoting Cinek777 (Thread starter):
Why is it that El Al Airline get special treatment when they arrive to airports. They get extra security,armed guards,and they screen there bags like three times before leaving any where also everybody that work the flights get checked before and after working the flights.

Because El Al has been targeted and attacked by hijackers more times than just about all the other airlines on earth ... combined.

Their security is there for a reason. Refresh my memory -- I don't remember an El Al 747 or 767 being hijacked any time recently. In fact, wherever you are in the entire world, if there is an El Al plane there, you'll know it. You can always see the armed guard who sits by the plane 24/7 while it's on the ground. Many a time I have landed at EWR and passed the El Al 777 on the tarmac after its flight from TLV. There is always a man sitting in a truck right by the front tire with a machine gun propped up in the seat next to him. Now that's security.

Quoting Cinek777 (Thread starter):
If American and United Airlines had special treatment like this 9/11 probably would have never happened.

While it is, of course, completely unrealistic to ever think any U.S. carrier could maintain the safety and security standards El Al does -- AA has more flights leaving from DFW in a few hours than El Al has throughout its whole system in a few days -- it is true that had El Al been running security in BGR, BOS, EWR and IAD on September 11, 2001, I highly doubt those events would ever have happened.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:35 am

Quoting A330 (Reply 2):
Just arrogant, racist wankers... , but for their arrogant behaviour. Just like their home country some would say...

That's strange, I heard the same thing said by an Englishman about the country of Belgium and their overriding need to control the EU and the world.
 
halls120
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:45 am

Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 13):
Gimme a break! If US airlines/ airports had EL AL security, flying would be much safer. The difference between the systems is this:

EL AL security looks for bombers.
US security looks for bombs.

a very succinct and accurate statement.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
slawko
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:47 am

EDDM They dont pay for it themselves do they?? I cant imagine any airport would pay for theextra security for one air carrier, and have to spread that cost out to the toehr airlines who dont get the service....
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
AA54Heavy
Posts: 180
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:51 am

Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 13):
Gimme a break! If US airlines/ airports had EL AL security, flying would be much safer. The difference between the systems is this:

EL AL security looks for bombers.
US security looks for bombs.



Quoting SE210Caravelle (Reply 15):
What are you saying! That we should judge people by the color of their skin, the clothes they wear and the accent they speak in. And while we are at it let's make America a dictatorship.

I completely agree with Zrs70, that here in the US we are panicked about the bombs, while we should be concerned with the people who build the bombs and threaten our safety....if you can deal with these people, then you deal with the threat

However, NO, that DOES NOT mean that we should judge people by the color of their skin, the clothes that they wear, etc....that's ignorant....but by asking pertinant questions to everyone about what their intentions are, you can find the threats regardless of what their skin color is....its difficult, but that's what need sto be done

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
I guess considering the Political situation in the Middle East.EL AL feels the need to be extra cautious.
A couple of months ago they had requested BOM Airportr Authorities to Demolish a Mosque on approach to Rnwy 27,qouting Terrorist could strike from there.

I completely agree that whatever EL AL deems as necessary for their security is their own perogative...especially since they pay for most of it themselves (or the government does)......however, the demolishing of a mosque is arrogant and they should have, rather than demanding it demolished, reconsidered whether or not they should serve BOM
Roger that, turning to our "other" left
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:52 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 23):
Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 13):
Gimme a break! If US airlines/ airports had EL AL security, flying would be much safer. The difference between the systems is this:

EL AL security looks for bombers.
US security looks for bombs.

this does not mean racial profiling it means asking question ans understanding where people are coming from and going too.

I flew out of TLS last may on CO (Peter Max !  Smile and I had 2 hours of security before I got to go through security!

Quoting Slawko (Reply 25):
EDDM They dont pay for it themselves do they?? I cant imagine any airport would pay for theextra security for one air carrier, and have to spread that cost out to the toehr airlines who dont get the service....

Yes EL AL pays for all the extra security
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
EL-AL
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:57 am

Still, we can all see that EL-AL's way is working. Since 1968 no LY plane was ever hijacked, nor any other plane took off from Israel (The terrorists on board Air France in 1976 got on the plane in Athens).

We all saw in Los Angeles on July 4th 2002 that LY and LY's passengers are targeted in and out of Israel, therefore we need extra security. If someone is disturbed about LY's security checks - just fly another airline.

I Don't know about you guys, but when I fly LY I feel much safer.

 arrow "EL AL. not only for the security"
every day is a good day to fly
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:20 am

Quoting Pmg1704 (Reply 10):
Regardless how one may feel about Israel and its policies, Israel, and El Al as one of the most visible international manifestations of the state, have a long history of violence against them. Questioning why El Al Airline gets special treatment when they arrive to airports I think becomes clear.

and them being violent to others (i.e. helpless Palestinians).. sarcastic ..

Quoting Ultrapig (Reply 14):
El Al gets special treatment because the Palestinians, Yassar Arafat and Black September invented Airplane hijacking starting with the three plane action in 1970. Because of their tribal society which keeps the enormous wealth of their oil brothers to certain tribes (like the Saudis) they have lived in poverty and take out their frustrations against an easy target-

I'm not sure if that was a serious comment or just some kind of humour I'm not understanding  confused 



Personally, I don't care if LY have extra security, that is their right.....but I WILL NOT tolerate it a the expense of losing my liberty ...ie. such as being told by LY security to "move"/"leave" from certain areas ..ESPECIALLY on public property (such as spotting near LAX or ORD) or if I'm in an airport terminal and there happens to be an LY plane at a particular gate close to where I am........

And I certainly did NOT appreciate them telling the govt of India to tear down a Mosque in BOM so that they feel "safe" and "secure" on approach.......

Also, I would assume that other aircarriers or airports don't pay for LY's extra security......
"Up the Irons!"
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:45 am

Why is it that El Al Airline get special treatment when they arrive to airports. They get extra security,armed guards,and they screen there bags like three times before leaving any where also everybody that work the flights get checked before and after working the flights. If American and United Airlines had special treatment like this 9/11 probably would have never happened.

El Al has their own security at every airport they operate into. The Israeli government pays for most, if not all, of it. It is not like the Port Authority pays for their security at JFK, for example. All of the examples of extra security that you mentioned above are by El Al security, not the TSA. Not that long ago, Australian authorities refused to let El Al security carry their own weapons, so El Al couldn't start flying to Sydney.

In Belgium, there was a row recently as EL Al didn't allow any darker skinned persons nor persons with an arabic sounding name to work near their aircraft/ luggage.

Do you blame them? Last time I checked, Arabs were trying to destroy Israel...Not Italians or other groups.

I am not even sure that it would be possible to have Israeli-type security on every flight operated by a US carrier or everyflight operated into the US. It certainly would be very difficult to implement.

It would be impossible. El Al is a very small airline--They only have a handful of 747 and 777s and other planes. What is possible is to adopt certain El Al procedures, such as focusing on high-risk passengers. IMO, every major American airport should have Israeli trained interrogators who are able to look for suspect passengers. Security in the US would be A LOT easier if we focused on the passengers likely to be hijackers rather than grandparents on their monthly flight up to New York.

It would never have been guessed that passengers would board an aircraft and use box cutters as weapons and we still do not know the exact details of what took place on that day, in the air and in D.C.

There is no doubt that if the US had adopted certain procedures of El Al security, the hijackers would not have gotten on the plane.

EL AL security looks for bombers.
US security looks for bombs.


Excellent way of summing it up. El Al security focuses on seeking out would be hijackers. US security focuses on having ALL people--from grandmothers to Arabs--take off their shoes and belts.

What are you saying! That we should judge people by the color of their skin, the clothes they wear and the accent they speak in. And while we are at it let's make America a dictatorship.

As long as the people with that skin color and accent continue to want to hijack airplanes and destroy my country, yes. When they get their house in order, they can board their JFK-FLL flight at ease.

We all saw in Los Angeles on July 4th 2002 that LY and LY's passengers are targeted in and out of Israel, therefore we need extra security

Indeed. I'm actually surprised how little attention that got in the US. If it weren't for El Al security, a lot more people could have been killed.

Personally, I don't care if LY have extra security, that is their right.....but I WILL NOT tolerate it a the expense of losing my liberty ...ie. such as being told by LY security to "move"/"leave" from certain areas ..ESPECIALLY on public property (such as spotting near LAX or ORD) or if I'm in an airport terminal and there happens to be an LY plane at a particular gate close to where I am........

Uh huh. Have you EVER experienced El Al security telling you to move? Or are you just using El Al as an excuse to vent your Israel hatred? I've never, ever been asked by El Al security to leave. In fact, I take friends to Terminal 4 at JFK all the time to walk by El Al and point out their security officers and explain how El Al security works to my friends. Most recently last night actually. I've never once had them come up to me.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:02 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 30):

Do you blame them? Last time I checked, Arabs were trying to destroy Israel...Not Italians or other groups.

lets see..since a large amount of African American males in the United States go through the penitentiary system, does that mean we should jail every black guy walking the street because he is a preceived threat??? NO!!!! Your comments are ABSOLUTELY RUBBISH and basically racist... butthead 

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 30):
Uh huh. Have you EVER experienced El Al security telling you to move?

how do you know I have or have not been??? Maybe I have or maybe I haven't...and I do know of other who DEFINITELY have...so why don't you....... footinmouth 

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 30):
Or are you just using El Al as an excuse to vent your Israel hatred?

Right...right..my colleauge, with who I started my company with is a devout Jew....which shows once again, you have mananaged to make completely inaccurate  dopey  and  footinmouth  comments
"Up the Irons!"
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:18 am

Lets keep this in perspective:

EL AL does have intense security procedures. Are they necessary due to the state of world affairs? Yes. Does EL AL and the state of Israel think that they are necessary? Absolutely. Do they work? Yes. Are the security procedures pleasant? No, they are not. They are time consuming, sometimes akward and invasive......most passengers dont mind, some are very troubled by the procedures (and its usually not Arab or other Middle Eastern people that are troubled by EL AL's methods, its suprisingly (white) US and European who are simply unfamiliar with EL AL's procedures and find their ways to be over the top).

EL AL's security measures are extreme, and anything that is extreme and out of the oridinary will prompt reaction - some pax think its great, others think its outrageous. EL AL does what (it thinks) it has to in order to protect its passengers and to operate safely. The good news is that passengers have a choice, if one is uncomfortable with EL AL's procedures, other carriers are available.

[Edited 2005-07-01 20:20:33]
 
FlyMeToTheMoon
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:01 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:21 am

Folks.... This is a thread about EL AL security and aviation not insults, hatred and all the "good stuff" that comes with it. We all have an opinion on the topic, each one of us feels strongly about but can we keep this an aviation discussion not race, religion and the likes?

In closing I cannot resist the following comment - for those who posted messages lumping people of a color or religion all together and claimed that they wanted to "destroy their country" please try not to do it. It only shows ignorance, bigotry and a fundamental lack respect for individuals. We each are unique!

Happy flying!
Fly me to the moon... but not through LHR!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:37 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 32):
EL AL's security measures are extreme, and anything that is extreme and out of the oridinary will prompt reaction - some pax think its great, others think its outrageous. EL AL does what (it thinks) it has to in order to protect its passengers and to operate safely. The good news is that passengers have a choice, if one is uncomfortable with EL AL's procedures, other carriers are available.

Dutchjet..you are absolutely correct, and all of my previous posts regarding LY have stated that same thing...I personally have no problems with LY (or any other aircarrier) having extra security..it is completely their right..but niether they (nor any other carrier) have a right to have extra security at the expense of people's liberty (or Mosques)...

Quoting FlyMeToTheMoon (Reply 33):
In closing I cannot resist the following comment - for those who posted messages lumping people of a color or religion all together and claimed that they wanted to "destroy their country" please try not to do it. It only shows ignorance, bigotry and a fundamental lack respect for individuals. We each are unique!

spot on.......
"Up the Irons!"
 
redflyer
Posts: 3905
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:44 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 31):
since a large amount of African American males in the United States go through the penitentiary system, does that mean we should jail every black guy walking the street because he is a preceived threat? NO!!!! Your comments are ABSOLUTELY RUBBISH and basically racist

No, we shouldn't because African Amercan males do not have a stated policy of destroying a nation or any other group. There may be a disproportionate number of them in jail, but it is because of INDIVIDUAL actions emanating from socio-economic and environmental factors. Every one who has encountered the law has been dealt with INDIVIDUALLY.

On the other hand, Arabs or their governments as a GROUP (not individually) have a stated policy of hatred towards Israel and the destruction of Israel, as is evidenced by many factors that permeate their society, beginning with the scholastic education of their young.

In my book, racism means judging people by the color of their skin. That is indeed very ugly and that is what happened in our past and we're still paying the price for it. But, judging one on the basis of their upbringing is not racist and that is the crux of this argument. If one was born/raised in a Middle East country then I think LY has every right to scrutinize them closely.
A government big enough to take away a constitutionally guaranteed right is a government big enough to take away any guaranteed right. A government big enough to give you everything you need is a government big enough to take away everything you have.
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:47 am

Quoting FlyMeToTheMoon (Reply 33):
In closing I cannot resist the following comment - for those who posted messages lumping people of a color or religion all together and claimed that they wanted to "destroy their country" please try not to do it. It only shows ignorance, bigotry and a fundamental lack respect for individuals. We each are unique!

If you saw the opinion polls in the countries you would probably agree with that broad statement.
 
B744F
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:49 am

Quoting Ultrapig (Reply 14):
El Al gets special treatment because the Palestinians, Yassar Arafat and Black September invented Airplane hijacking starting with the three plane action in 1970. Because of their tribal society which keeps the enormous wealth of their oil brothers to certain tribes (like the Saudis) they have lived in poverty and take out their frustrations against an easy target-

That is 100% correct! They use the hate the jews preaching to turn peoples attention away from the rulers who are swimming in billions while the entire population almost is extremely poor
 
Trvlr
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:52 am

Quoting Geoffm (Reply 9):
Quoting Trvlr (Reply 8):
This thread turned nasty quickly.

Where?

Still need an answer? Big grin

Aaron G.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 37):
That is 100% correct! They use the hate the jews preaching to turn peoples attention away from the rulers who are swimming in billions while the entire population almost is extremely poor

uncalled for and hateful suggest deletion
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
jacobin777
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:58 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 35):
On the other hand, Arabs or their governments as a GROUP (not individually) have a stated policy of hatred towards Israel and the destruction of Israel,

Are there polical factions/groups who believe Isreal shouldn't exist? Yes...just like there are certain Jews and Christians who believe that a viable Palestine shouldn't exist......there are racists people in all sects of society and religions...its just that the Muslim sect tend get more notoriety.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 35):

In my book, racism means judging people by the color of their skin.

what book are you using? care to fill me in??

here's my "book"

rac�ism Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race

Source: The American Heritage� Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright � 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

There is a BIG difference between what I said regarding LY security and what others have said about particular screening of Arabs...and the definitions above (particularly #2) have COMPLETELY proved my point that the mentioned comment was indeed a racist (and  butthead  )comment...!
"Up the Irons!"
 
FlyMeToTheMoon
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:01 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:14 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 36):

If you saw the opinion polls in the countries you would probably agree with that broad statement.

How is this my friend - I actually lived in a few countries and I firmly believe that lumping people together in broad groups based on religion, skin color and the like and then passing broad judgements is plain wrong, indecent, imoral and full of bigotry. Last time that happend we had concentration camps. Prior to that we had slavery, before that we had Native American slaughtered, before that same kin killing each other and all sort of people thinking that they somehow are a superior group or race (say... Darfur or the West Bank). And the list goes on and on.

We will not solve the worlds ills in this forum. All we will manage to do is trade insult and look like idiots not reasonably intelligent people that love aviations. So, can we PLEASE keep this limited to aviation?
Fly me to the moon... but not through LHR!
 
geoffm
Posts: 2082
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:58 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:16 am

Quoting Trvlr (Reply 38):
Quoting Geoffm (Reply 9):
Quoting Trvlr (Reply 8):
This thread turned nasty quickly.

Where?

Still need an answer?

Aaron G.

There certainly wasn't any nastiness when you originally posted. A couple have made some questionable comments but on a.net levels it's pretty mild!

Question is: do you feel safer flying on El Al because of the extra security, or do you feel less safe because El Al is a major target? One would hope - and practice certainly seems to suggest this - that the security more than outweighs the threat.

Just to re-iterate, seeing as some people seem to have missed earlier posts, El Al and the Israeli government bear the extra security costs, NOT the airports or foreign governments.

Geoff M.
 
wardialer
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:31 am

I think ALL airlines should be like that. Even before the 9/11 attacks happened...but no! because people prefer convenience over security...Thats the problem.
 
User avatar
alberchico
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:31 am

If we had EL -AL style security in the U.S 9/11 would not have happend. Profiling is done all over the world and it WORKS !!!
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:31 am

El Al pays for the extra security. They have to. About a third of the global population is against Israel even existing.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
UN_B732
Posts: 3532
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RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:33 am

They'll be taken by the Western forces for anti-semitism and never survive the disparagement.
What now?
 
BNANative
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:43 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:42 am

Having experienced El Al security firsthand, I can assure you that there is nothing racist in the way they question and try to intimidate EVERYBODY. I am a tall, white, Anglo, American and I have received the same grilling that Osama Bin Laden would have gotten before boarding. You can pick on El Al all day if you want but there is never any reason to feel anything but safe on or around their airline. If you visit Israel and see a group of schoolchildren out on a trip, there will be two armed adults with them. This isn't done to discipline the children, as it might be in the U.S.. It is because groups of schoolchildren have been attacked and murdered in the past. The point I'm trying to make is that Israeli airline security isn't done just to make life difficult. It is a neccessity that everyone involved would just as soon do without if they could.
 
CXYYZ
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:36 pm

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:55 am

There really are a terrible number of ignorant and border-line racist posts in this thread.

That said, LY can have all the security they want as far as I'm concerned. So long as LY pays the bills and it doesn't interfere with other users of the airports they serve.

Telling a foreign government to remove a mosque is interfering in my books, btw.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:56 am

how do you know I have or have not been??? Maybe I have or maybe I haven't...and I do know of other who DEFINITELY have...so why don't you.......

Hence me asking you the question. Has El Al security ever personally removed you from somewhere--Or is it just a story you heard from your brothers friends girlfriends dog's veterinarian?

They use the hate the jews preaching to turn peoples attention away from the rulers who are swimming in billions while the entire population almost is extremely poor

As Natan Sharasnky has brilliantly wrote about, every Arab country is a dictatorship/fear society and dictatorships need external enemies to keep their populations content. In the Arab world, the obvious external enemies are Israel and the US.

Having experienced El Al security firsthand, I can assure you that there is nothing racist in the way they question and try to intimidate EVERYBODY. I am a tall, white, Anglo, American and I have received the same grilling that Osama Bin Laden would have gotten before boarding.

Have to disagree with you here. El Al does'nt wave Jews through or anything like that--Every passenger, even the low threats, get a level of security much more than any passenger on an American airline. But Arabs, or any other passenger who is deemed a possible threat, is most definitly given extra security.

You can pick on El Al all day if you want but there is never any reason to feel anything but safe on or around their airline.

My El Al flight had an engine fire a few weeks ago  Smile

The point I'm trying to make is that Israeli airline security isn't done just to make life difficult. It is a neccessity that everyone involved would just as soon do without if they could.

Indeed. And it isn't only on El Al. Security guards at the doors of restaurants, clubs, supermarkets, etc is the norm in Israel.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: EL AL Special Treatment?

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:57 am

Quoting BNANative (Reply 47):
experienced El Al security firsthand, I can assure you that there is nothing racist in the way they question and try to intimidate EVERYBODY. I am a tall, white, Anglo, American and I have received the same grilling that Osama Bin Laden would have gotten before boarding

Aboslutley. I flew CO out of TLV last may and had a 2 hour security experience. I was happy that there was good security.

I got back to BNA safe and sound!
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure

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