lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: A380 Not An Option For KLM

Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:46 pm

Quoting Glareskin (Thread starter):
KLM wouldn't be able to fill it completely and therefore Boeings 747 is the better option for KLM. KLM doubts if all the A380 customer's plans to install the luxury will be successful. Witsenboer says that the first 747's also had a bar in the upperdeck, but this option has dissapeared in the years.

The first and last sentence contradict. As if when the 747 had growth (discovered in hindsight) to occupy the remainder of the plane, that purchasing an A380 for those cheaper op costs in the future makes no sense? What, no future growth?

The middle sentence sounds like an opinion and we should not consider it worth more than what it is (precieved to be).  Wink
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
Glareskin
Topic Author
Posts: 1013
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:35 pm

RE: A380 Not An Option For KLM

Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:27 pm

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 50):
The first and last sentence contradict.



Quoting Lehpron (Reply 50):
The middle sentence sounds like an opinion and we should not consider it worth more than what it is

Sorry Lehpron, but I was just quoting the article. So your reaction should say: quoting Witsenboer or quoting De Volkskrant.  innocent 

regards,

Glareskin
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
vunz
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2001 3:51 pm

RE: A380 Not An Option For KLM

Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:09 pm

I'm sure this has been discussed many time and forgive me my ignorance, but what's the problem with combi's? Why aren't they allowed anymore? KL has a lot of them and operates them very profitably for all I know.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: A380 Not An Option For KLM

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:01 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 9):
KLM's B747-Combi should be converted into all PAX a/c or more likely into All Cargo.



Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 27):
The current 747 combis will most probably become freighters when the time comes and these will be replaced with newer aircraft.

There is little chance of any combis being converted to either passenger or cargo variants for the simple reason that no more can be certified. Anyone who wants a combi has to find a used one. If KLM doesn't need some of their combis, they can probably sell them for more than it would cost to buy a replacement.

Quoting KennyK (Reply 20):
As for a combi A380, if the upper deck were kept for passenger use only and the A380F freight door were used for the main deck I'm sure a practical aircraft would be available to replace KLMs 747 combis in the future. The main deck could then be configured for freight/passengers as required.

Good luck getting an A380 combi certified.  Yeah sure
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: A380 Not An Option For KLM

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:06 pm

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 51):
Sorry Lehpron, but I was just quoting the article. So your reaction should say: quoting Witsenboer or quoting De Volkskrant

No prob bob. Big grin

I did notice that if the CEo of KLM doubts the ideas of others will work, unless they have been benchmarked as one of the wise best, that comment can be seen as resentful. But for what I donno.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
sk601
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:46 pm

RE: A380 Not An Option For KLM

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:15 pm

Why can KLM not fill up a A380?? I read in some post that that could be the problem for KL. I really don't see why!
FlyAUA even says that KL cannot fill up a B747 (reply 27). well I can tell you that those planes are most of the time fully booked, and that includes the 5 full pax versions! Destinations like JNB/YYZ/SXM/CUR/PBM/SIN/KIX/NRT are all served by the full pax version (ok not daily/some destinations are operated on some days with B777). except SXM-CUR all those flights are single-leg operations and booked full! For example a few days ago JNB was overbooked by 25/SXM-CUR by 41/PBM by 24/KIX by 10 and even 2 in c-class and so on.... KL has NO problem to fill it's planes......Also other destinations, not served by B747 are doing great for example the non-stop AMS-MNL, the new AMS-ADD-KRT and in Europe AMS-TLL is doing very well, it's most likely that there will be a second daily AMS-TLL in the near future.

Besides that I agree that the A380 is not an option for KL, I rather see more frequencies with smaller planes, than once daily with a big one.

[Edited 2005-07-06 10:32:08]
 
Shenzhen
Posts: 1666
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:11 pm

RE: A380 Not An Option For KLM

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:28 pm

Doesn't it really come down to risk vs reward. The last 10 years has shown that there is a lot of risk, (Asian Economic Crisis, 9/11, SARS) and all of these could not have been forecast (run on currencies?... a one day terrorist event?..... Someone sneezing in a Hong Kong Hotel Elevator?...).

For all the potential rewards when times are good, the risks that seem to pop up every couple years would weigh on any managements decision to purchase such a large airplane, especially if they can barely fill them in the best of times.

Maybe if we can go 5 years without the bottom falling out, then they may re-evaluate their requirements.

Cheers..
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5317
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: A380 Not An Option For KLM

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:33 pm

Zevda reply #53 : There is little chance for any Combis being converted to either Passenger or Cargo variants for the simple reason that no more can be certified


Where did you get that ???  wideeyed 

Air Fance has just signed contract with Boeing 2 months ago fo the conversion of 3 of its B744PAX (ex -Combi, fitted with a SCD) into all Freighters !
 
flyAUA
Posts: 4287
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 3:12 am

RE: A380 Not An Option For KLM

Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:59 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 47):
FlyAUA, you're very new here too, buddy...

Umm... yeah and I obviously have experienced more (I spend a lot of time here) in the last 43 days than some who have been members for several years  ziplip 

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 53):
There is little chance of any combis being converted to either passenger or cargo variants for the simple reason that no more can be certified. Anyone who wants a combi has to find a used one. If KLM doesn't need some of their combis, they can probably sell them for more than it would cost to buy a replacement.

That's why I used the word "probably" Big grin

The other option is that they will just use new freighters for their cargo fleet. I am guessing the existing MD11s and some new B777s... we will see.
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
A388
Posts: 7918
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: A380 Not An Option For KLM

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:07 pm

I agree, the 744 (whether they are full pax or combis) can all be converted to fullfreighter. Boeing offers this to airlines, it's the 747-400SF (Special Freighter) program. So anyone saying that 744 aircraft that cannot be certified, Boeing offers 744 conversions to airlines as well as other aircraft conversion companies. If KLM wants to convert their 744s to fullfreighters, there's no problem. It is possible.

A388
 
Glareskin
Topic Author
Posts: 1013
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:35 pm

RE: A380 Not An Option For KLM

Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:28 am

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 56):
Maybe if we can go 5 years without the bottom falling out, then they may re-evaluate their requirements.

I agree, KLM seems very conservative in their thinking. The opposite of EK so to speak......
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...

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