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AA ORD T-3

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:48 am
by PSU.DTW.SCE
I recently had several trips connect me through ORD on AA. Sometimes, I have come back through DFW.

I've noticed that AA's terminal in ORD appears to be getting rather run-down. I remember when they renovated H & K in the early 90's, and it was considered one of the better facilities in the country. Granted, its never been like United's T-1, but still.

Now, it seems that its overcrowded, small, dirty, and in a general state of disrepair. The gate waiting areas are way too small, the corridors too narrow. I've noticed numerous malfunctioning gate/flight monitors too. The jet bridges outside are rusting, faded, and the paint is falling off some. Plus the whole ramp area seems way too small for the operation AA is attempting to fit in there. The alleyways inside H&K are too small to allow aircraft to pass each other, when widebodies are at the gate, the wings extend into adjacent gates. Even the Admiral's Club can be overcrowded, and hasn't been updated in years.

Now, I will say that G is a model for other airports in terms of RJ gate facilities, and the new food court is a good addition.

I don't mean to rant about AA & ORD, but it really seems to be showing its age. Granted I also know how bad T-2 is for everyone else. It really seems that AA has heavily invested in DFW and it is 1,000 times better than it used to be. I guess part of the reason is due to the O'Hare master plan and the likelihood that AA will get an all new terminal whenever that reconfiguration ever occurs.

I'm just curious to see if others have noticed this too.

btw, what is the construction going on in H concourse? I did notice some concrete work going on out on AA's ramp area too.

RE: AA ORD T-3

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:59 am
by tekelberry
AA doesn't need an entire new terminal at ORD at this point. The terminal just needs a simple touch-up. That is exactly what the O'hare FACE project, which is already in progress, intends to do.

[Edited 2005-07-12 19:00:06]

RE: AA ORD T-3

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:02 am
by CHI787ORD
T3 is run down. Now that AA is finally seeming to get the upper hand over UA at ORD, I think it's time for reconstruction/remodeling as well. In the mean time, marvel at the wonder that is T1.

RE: AA ORD T-3

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:55 am
by ORD Boy 2
I would not state that AA is getting an upper hand at UAs home base however, I do agree T3 needs a renovation

RE: AA ORD T-3

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:47 am
by Cubsrule
Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 2):
T3 is run down. Now that AA is finally seeming to get the upper hand over UA at ORD...

What the hell do you mean by that? Seriously, that comment makes no sense to me.

To comment on a couple of questions...

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
I did notice some concrete work going on out on AA's ramp area too.

That could be related to the concrete work that cut up an AC 319 last week.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
lus the whole ramp area seems way too small for the operation AA is attempting to fit in there. The alleyways inside H&K are too small to allow aircraft to pass each other, when widebodies are at the gate, the wings extend into adjacent gates.

As a result, they are spilling over into L, an inferior facility in every way (it's hard to believe DL custom-built it in the 80s).

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
I guess part of the reason is due to the O'Hare master plan and the likelihood that AA will get an all new terminal whenever that reconfiguration ever occurs.

I thought the master plan showed AA and OW partners retaining T-3 and gaining the new T-4 and the K extension, while UA and *A partners got 1&2 and everyone else went to 6, but I may be wrong.

RE: AA ORD T-3

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:53 am
by UnitedFirst
Now that AA is finally seeming to get the upper hand over UA at ORD

Not to beat a dead horse...but are you gargling bong water?

RE: AA ORD T-3

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:30 pm
by Carpethead
Quote:
PSU.DTW.SCE (Thread starter):
The alleyways inside H&K are too small to allow aircraft to pass each other, when widebodies are at the gate, the wings extend into adjacent gates.


That's why MD-80s are parked in between 767s in the afternoon/evening hours so that 767/757s don't have a wingtip incidents.


ORD T3 was originally built in the 60s and then updated through the years. If American had money and space, they would have ripped up T3 and replaced it with sufficient gate clearance and increased floor space, but that wasn't how it was done and it's in the current state. It isn't like HKG but it's functional.

RE: AA ORD T-3

Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:31 pm
by ckfred
Before deregulation, UA had Concourses E and F, except for 2 gates used by Ozark. AA had K plus 2 gates on H.

After deregulation, UA bulked up at ORD, while AA initially bulked up at DFW. Eventually, UA needed a new terminal, Terminal 1.

AA started buying up slots to compete with UA. First, AA took DL's gate space on H, when DL opened Concourse L. Then, AA took Republic's gate space on H, after the merger with NW.

It was after AA had every gate on H and K that it did the significant renovation of these two concourses. To combat the growing traffic, AA widened the aisle running down H and K, and removed many of the walls between all of the gates. This gave the concourses a more open feel, and didn't cut down tremendously on seating space in the gate areas.

Remember, H and K were originally built in the early 60s, so that the nose of an aircraft parked in a "slot" between two gates. These slots were "filled in", so that there is a glass curtain wall running the entire length of each concourse.

Then, in the late 80s and into the early 90s, AA started taking TW's space on G. AA took complete control of G at the end of 1998, when AC moved out of G-1. That led to the renovation that started in 1999.

AA started taking DL gate space in the mid 90s. Frankly, I like Concourse L, because many of the gates are wide enough to handle widebodies. I think only L-1, L-2, and L-3 are narrowbody only.

If I recall correctly, AA did a remodeling job of the gates in 1998 or 1999, about the time that the MD-80s and 767s received new seats and interiors. The carpeting in the gates is the same color and pattern as on-board. That's also when the monitors went into every gate, so that agents didn't have to post flights, destinations, and times by hand.

AA has been deferring a lot of "cosmetic" work, such as painting jetbridges and the like, because of the finacial situation, as well as the fact that it can't grow at ORD, most likely until the third east-west runway is finished.

The configuration of the "alleys" is a problem, particularly gates close to the terminal. To some degree, AA doesn't have as great a problem, since the DC-10s are retired, and only a few 767s fly domestic routes. Thus, the widebodies pretty much park towards the end of K.

In that same vein, I don't think the gate spaces are that overcrowded. There
are far fewer widebodies going in and out of Terminal 3, compared to 15 years ago, and September 11th eliminated non-passengers on the concourses. Heck, AA is in the process of removing all of the arrival monitors, except in the baggage claim.

From what I've heard, the terminal expansion plan is on indefinite hold. None of the airlines want to spend money right now. The configuration was supposed to be UA and UAX domestic in T1, UA international and Star airlines in T2, AA and Eagle domestic in T3, AA international and Oneworld airlines in T4 (where the heating and a/c building is now), all other international carriers in T5, and all domestic carriers that don't have space elsewhere plus new entrants in T6.

However, T2 and T3 are having their ticketing areas and baggage claims renovated. The fronts of the terminals are being moved out 20 feet, new escalators are being installed, new lighting is going in, etc. The terminals are starting to look much better.

RE: AA ORD T-3

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:42 am
by CWAFlyer
I can remember flying through ORD in the early 80's on TWA and
transfering to North Central (later Republic). TWA was huge in G
and all of Republic's stuff was in H. The first time I flew by myself
(on my dad's TWA pass) I was 13 and made a transfer from
Republic to TWA.

RE: AA ORD T-3

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:51 am
by ckfred
CWAFlyer:

Until TWA started to downsize it operation at ORD in favor of STL, it had 11 of the 12 gates on G. Typically, there were 3 or 4 L-1011s parked at G, while DL often had the same number parked at H (prior to the opening of L).

RE: AA ORD T-3

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:08 am
by CWAFlyer
CKFred
That's cool info. I knew they were big in ORD, but didn't realize
they had that many gates. I can remember flying into ORD from MCI
in a 707 in 1980. I also flew from ORD to MCI in a 1011 the year before
that. I can remember the 1011 service from MCI to ORD that continued
to JFK and AMS. Flight 818 I think, but it's been too long!!! I remember
the 747 service to LHR (Flight 770) and 747's to SFO in the mid 70's.

What would be cool is if there was a picture somewhere of every
airplane TWA flew at the time parked at a gate in ORD at the
same time of the day. Not sure if that ever happened though......

[Edited 2005-07-14 03:30:28]

RE: AA ORD T-3

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:22 pm
by ckfred
CWAFlyer:

Try this one.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon



The only plane missing is a DC-9, which TWA didn't fly out of ORD much until later on.

RE: AA ORD T-3

Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:54 pm
by CWAFlyer
When did TWA move from G to E? Did they ever fly the DC-9-10's to ORD?
I want to say no, but I don't remember. I think by 1982 (date of this photo)
the 9's were gone. The MD-80's didn't show up until Spring of 83
and the Ozark 9's were 3 years after that. So I'd say this photo
has everything they flew at the time, except the 727-31. Very cool.