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keesje
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New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:33 pm

http://www.etravelblackboard.com/index.asp?id=39923&nav=2

Seems like the same single seat angled flat bed configurartion VS has introduced.



Is it (out with the site by site double seats) the way forward for new Business Class products?

Seems a choice is made that individual comfort/ privacy is more important then being able to communicate with fellow passengers.

[Edited 2005-07-13 10:34:28]
 
NZAA
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:07 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Seems like the same single seat angled flat bed configurartion VS has introduced.

Yes it is the same seats as used by VS in their upper class suites.

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Seems a choice is made that individual comfort/ privacy is more important then being able to communicate with fellow passengers.

I think that you will find that these seats were chosen for there comfort, but there is a foot stool on each seat that doubles as a seat for another "visiting passenger," so I think you will be able to communicate.

NZ1, does the seats have their own personal phone to make interseat calls?

Travis
 
NZ1
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:14 pm

Quoting NZAA (Reply 1):
NZ1, does the seats have their own personal phone to make interseat calls?

Yes they do, though that feature will not be enabled to start with. However, you are able to call a pax in another seat, provided they have enabled the feature on their screen. Stops random pax from bothering you, but useful if travelling as part of a large group etc.

NZ1
 
Qantasclub
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:23 pm

'inspired by'??
More like...COMPLETE COPY of, and, introduced extremely late, after just about every asia-pacific carrier has already in place lie flat seats.
Oh well, better late than never.
 
NZAA
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:25 pm

Thanks, can you give me your thoughts on the Y class seats?

Trav
 
777ER
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:25 pm

Yes, the seats are the same as VS.
 
NZ1
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:30 pm

Virgin have licensed them to NZ. I won't tell you how much this cost, but it was a lot of money.

NZ1
 
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NZ107
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:35 pm

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 6):
Virgin have licensed them to NZ.

Why didn't they come up with something original? A unique design from NZ would have been nice... even a modification of the VS seat.
 
NZ1
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:40 pm

Well, technically it is a modified version. The VS seat has a moving ottoman, whereas the NZ one is fixed. An ottoman is the footrest/seat.

NZ1
 
nz777
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:57 pm

Qantasclub

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 3):

true, the Air NZ version is based on the VS Product, but what about the QF 1st and business class products, looks very similar to the BA or SQ products, hardly original either?

At least the Air NZ business class seat is truly flat bed. Flew on the QF product the LAX recently, not that comfortable, nor flat and no AVOD!

Looking forward to the superior Air NZ in flight service and now upgraded cabin.

Well done Air NZ!
 
TG992
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:59 pm

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 3):
'inspired by'??
More like...COMPLETE COPY of, and, introduced extremely late, after just about every asia-pacific carrier has already in place lie flat seats.
Oh well, better late than never.



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 7):

Why didn't they come up with something original? A unique design from NZ would have been nice... even a modification of the VS seat.

You say that like there's something wrong with copying something. NZ have never hidden the fact that the product is licensed from Virgin. Why should a relatively small airline spend zillions on researching and developing a product when they have the opportunity to license the best product in the market today?

You also seem to fail to recognise that this seat is a generation ahead of QF, SQ, and CX's current J class offering (and admitted as such by the SQ CEO at a recent Star meeting, which sure brought a smile to our faces!)
 
Qantasclub
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:40 pm

Quoting Nz777 (Reply 9):
true, the Air NZ version is based on the VS Product, but what about the QF 1st and business class products, looks very similar to the BA or SQ products, hardly original either?

The BA bed is nothing like SQ's or QF's. QF's skybed is not a completely flat bed, but it IS originally designed and has won significant design awards for it's originality.

I hardly think that QF are in the slightest worried at all about ANZ's new upper class copy. It certainly isn't worth the extra stop in Auckland vs non stops from all 3 major cities (MEL/SYD/BRIS) to the US. And besides, here are the results of more than 12 million survery nominations:
AIRLINE OF THE YEAR 2005

1
Cathay Pacific

2
Qantas Airways

3
Emirates

4
Singapore Airlines

5
British Airways

6
Malaysia Airlines

7
Thai Airways

© Skytrax Research

Not sure where Air New Zealand is...maybe they're 8th?

But seriously, ANZ, well done on finally upgrading your decade old business class across a vast and extensive fleet of 8 744s.
 
Lee
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:46 pm

Do virgin design the seats themselves ?
 
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cathay747
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:34 am

Quoting TG992 (Reply 10):
Why should a relatively small airline spend zillions on researching and developing a product when they have the opportunity to license the best product in the market today?

BINGO! Right on...like I care WHO designed the seat, or if it's copied (under license or not)?
If I'm on a 15hr trans-Pac flight, I care about being able to lie flat and get some sleep, not whether it's an original design!  banghead 

Way to go, NZ!
 
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fbgdavidson
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting Nz777 (Reply 9):
true, the Air NZ version is based on the VS Product, but what about the QF 1st and business class products, looks very similar to the BA or SQ products, hardly original either?

QF similar to BA? BA similar to SQ? Please explain Stevie Wonder!

SQ:

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Photo © Sam Chui
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Photo © Alan Tsui



QF:

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Photo © Glenn Stewart
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Photo © Craig Murray



BA:

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Photo © Jason Milligan
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Jason Milligan

 
Trolley Dolley
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:41 am

I think the reason it is licensed is due to the patent restrictions. When BA intorduced the indivual bed concept in F it was quickly copied by others and it was unable to successful sue others for using its unique (at the time) idea. I think VS has learned from this. The seat is truly unique, being a flip over etc, and simply doing "your own" version could open an airline up to a heavy lawsuit that VS would probably win. It is wise to license the seat to an airline that is has worked well with over the years and that has only one route that it competes with (LA-LON) as this will help VS recover the development costs.
 
dutchjet
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:21 am

The VS Business Class seat is an outstanding cutting-edge product, NZ made a business decision that it made sense from a financial and timing point of view to license the Virgin seat for its own use instead of coming up with something new. A creative solution; I am sure that NZ paid a handsome amount to Virgin in consideration of the license, but as I said, it was a business decision - it saved valuable time and developmental costs.

Its a matter of personal opinion as to whether the NZ/Virgin seat is better, worse or equal to the offerings of other airlines - the important issue is that now NZ has an up to date premium product that can fully compete with those offered by other airlines. NZ did wait a bit too long to do this update and fell behind - that is probably part of the reason that they went with the licensed Virgin seat - it saved a lot of time.
 
AEROFAN
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:13 am

I've never flown BA or QF or SQ in F

I have however flown them in J

Without a doubt VS' bed is a lot more comfortable to me. Skytrax or no skytrax survey!
 
brutie
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:56 am

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 11):
QF's skybed is not a completely flat bed, but it IS originally designed and has won significant design awards for it's originality

Qantasclub
So a Qantas-designed non-flat bed must be better than a licensed flat bed, just because it's "original"? What a ridiculous statement.

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 11):
I hardly think that QF are in the slightest worried at all about ANZ's new upper class copy. It certainly isn't worth the extra stop in Auckland vs non stops from all 3 major cities (MEL/SYD/BRIS) to the US.

Nobody anywhere suggested that they were.

Not quite sure why you saw fit to try to turn this into a QFvNZ post
 
NZ767
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:03 am

Quoting Qantasclub:

"But seriously, ANZ, well done on finally upgrading your decade old business class across a vast and extensive fleet of 8 744s."

What a childish comment.
You actually hit the nail on the head there without realising it Qantasclub. Your comment above supports this line from TG992:

"Why should a relatively small airline spend zillions on researching and developing a product when they have the opportunity to license the best product in the market today?"


Now those seven airlines in that survey are all majors. It stands to reason then that more people fly on them. And obviously, basic mathematics will tell you that if more people are flying them, then chances are more people will be voting for them! Pretty simple really!!  Yeah sure
 
roseflyer
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:49 am

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 11):
I hardly think that QF are in the slightest worried at all about ANZ's new upper class copy. It certainly isn't worth the extra stop in Auckland vs non stops from all 3 major cities (MEL/SYD/BRIS) to the US

I think QF is worried to some degree about the new seat. Don't forget that Air New Zealand and Qantas go head to head in the AKL-LAX market. QF just added the new Skybeds in business class which is the best on the route for now, but the NZ seat is better since it is flat and might take some of that market back.
 
Qantasclub
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:50 am

Quoting NZ767 (Reply 19):
Now those seven airlines in that survey are all majors. It stands to reason then that more people fly on them. And obviously, basic mathematics will tell you that if more people are flying them, then chances are more people will be voting for them! Pretty simple really!!

Incorrect. The survey uses data weighting based on 2003-2004 published passenger numbers to provide nomination equity when evaluating airlines of different size and network. Pretty simple, really.

Quoting Brutie (Reply 18):
So a Qantas-designed non-flat bed must be better than a licensed flat bed, just because it's "original"? What a ridiculous statement.

No, not necessarily better, but the title to the thread makes it sound like ANZ somehow 'came up with' this brilliant bed, which is an almost exact copy of another carrier's product, rather than an 'inspired' new seat.
 
nirvarma
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:48 am

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 21):
but the title to the thread makes it sound like ANZ somehow 'came up with' this brilliant bed,

How exactly did you come up with this from the thread title which states:
"New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?"
 
brutie
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:50 am

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 21):
No, not necessarily better, but the title to the thread makes it sound like ANZ somehow 'came up with' this brilliant bed, which is an almost exact copy of another carrier's product, rather than an 'inspired' new seat.

Don't see how "New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?" in any way implies that NZ "came up" with it - he's clearly asking IF (note question mark) the seats were inspired BY (ie a copy or derivative of) the VS designs, not stating that they are inspired.
 
NZ767
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:54 am

Quoting Qantasclub:

"Incorrect. The survey uses data weighting based on 2003-2004 published passenger numbers to provide nomination equity when evaluating airlines of different size and network. Pretty simple, really."

Needless to say,I rest my case! With wording like that, ever thought of becoming a politician? Big grin

"No, not necessarily better, but the title to the thread makes it sound like ANZ somehow 'came up with' this brilliant bed, which is an almost exact copy of another carrier's product, rather than an 'inspired' new seat."

The title to this thread came from an A.Net member, not Air NZ.
Ever heard of the term "digging yourself deeper"?  zzz 
 
Qantasclub
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:03 am

Wow, look at all those Kiwis getting their feathers ruffled.
Just a bit of trans Tasman ribbing-don't you know a flame bait when you see one?!
Anyway, lets just agree that the air NZ bed is a GOOD COPY of the VS product and good luck to them.
 
NZ767
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:42 pm

Yeah sure. Let's agree on that.
But let's hope that any Open Skies Agreement between QF and SQ is NOT a good copy of a certain similar arrangement between NZ and Aus a few years back.  Yeah sure
 
NZ1
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:54 pm

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 11):
But seriously, ANZ, well done on finally upgrading your decade old business class across a vast and extensive fleet of 8 744s.

No need to be such a smug prick is there??? Just face it, the NZ product is far better than the QF Skybed, and you know it too.

NZ1
 
nz777
Posts: 28
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:24 pm

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 27):
No need to be such a smug prick is there??? Just face it, the NZ product is far better than the QF Skybed, and you know it too.

NZ1

Thanks NZ1 (always enjoy your posts from the "inside")

Qantasclub, my previous post was simply stating that airlines like other businesses review ideas etc from time to time. Why waste money on something that is proven? At least NZ has paid money for it.

Yes QF is a much larger airline to NZ, but the so is the size of the two countries, put it into perspective! The number of aircraft in a fleet does not always make it a better airline?

All I was trying to say Qantasclub that it is pleasing to see NZ providing what most people see as a world class product.

I am an Aussie, but do enjoy the NZ service over the QF, and before you get your feathers in a ruffle, it is my view and I am entitled to it. It is based on many, many flights on both airlines.

Lets move on and agree that both NZ and QF have their strengths and weaknesses and don't get personal!
 
aussieindc
Posts: 289
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:53 pm

It's soooooo funny to see all the 'FRIENDLY' banter from afar...... Makes me miss home.
 
zrs70
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RE: New ANZ Business Class Inspired By VS?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:02 pm

Problem with this seat is that you can't go from sleep to recline to sit without getting up.

I am lazy, and I don't like having to get up in order to lie down!

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