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asianguy767
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NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:25 am

I'm curious as to why ANZ only operates AKL-LAX-LHR whereas QF goes SYD-BKK-LHR, SYD-SIN-LHR & SYD-HKG-LHR...Is it bcos the UK won't give ANZ the ok to fly thru Asia? Or is it the Asian cities that won't give ANZ the go ahead? I would like to see ANZ do a AKL-MNL-LHR soon, mostly bcos there isn't any competition on the route at all I think.
 
777ER
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:39 am

Currently NZ only operate to LHR via LAX. Recently NZ was given one extra slot at LHR. Rumor is that the new LHR route is via an asian port. Not sure of when it expect an announcement
 
N1120A
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:48 am

There are a couple of reasons NZ flies AKL-LAX-LHR. First reason is that it is shorter. While it is shorter for QF to go the other way, the hop via LAX is the fastest viable way to LHR. Also, NZ has 5th Freedoms on the route, so they can take advantage of what is actually an underserved LAX-LHR market (it looks like a lot of capacity, but is always sold out and is very high yield).
 
N77014
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:51 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
Currently NZ only operate to LHR via LAX. Recently NZ was given one extra slot at LHR. Rumor is that the new LHR route is via an asian port. Not sure of when it expect an announcement

Correct. NZ has enjoyed 5th freedom rights on LAX-LHR, and has put them to very good use; likely making NZ1/2 the most profitable flights in the network. LAX goes out full to LHR consistently full, especially in J-class. They once had LAX-FRA flights but ceded them to LH when they joined Star Alliance. Big mistake in my opinion.

The bilaterals between UK/NZ have been altered to permit more frequency in the market.

It would be exciting to see NZ revive the RTW concept. Say, NZ1 AKL-LAX-LHR-(SIN, BKK, HKG, etc)-AKL and NZ2 the reverse.
 
dutchjet
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:52 am

Yes, NZ routes its LHR-AKL service via LAX and, in the past, when NZ flew it own aircraft to FRA, that route also operated via LAX. LAX is a major connection point for the NZ network, pax travelling from LHR can connect with flights to PPT, NAN, and other South Pacific destinations at LAX, aside from continuing on to AKL.

As mentioned, over the years there has been a lot of talk about NZ offering an alternative routing from LHR to AKL via an Asian city.....Hong Kong was frequently mentoned, but nothing ever materialized. NZ recently launched AKL-SFO, so I am not sure that they are ready to think about another longhaul route at this time.....and the with QF and VS adding introducing LHR-HKG (-SYD) services, and CX increasing flights on that route as well, LHR-HKG suddenly got very crowded. LHR-SIN and LHR-BKK are also very well served, so NZ is probably reluctant to enter these markets and end up flying a long segment that could be very unprofitable......the resources probably can be better allocated elsewhere.
 
N77014
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:54 am

Well said Dutchjet...to my RESP Users list...
 
KL808
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:08 am

Any chance of seeing NZ do:

AKL-MNL-LHR, which are not served currently at all in all direction?

Currently there's no link from MNL to LHR direct.

There are also no direct flights from AKL to MNL.

This would probably be a good route, no competition and lots of room to grow. PR might even codeshare on both sectors (MNL-LHR-MNL and MNL-AKL-MNL).

Drew
 
PanAm747
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:09 am

The halfway-around-the-world line from England to Australasia (Australia/New Zealand) lies between Australia and New Zealand. From Sydney, the shortest route is actually via Hong Kong (go to http://gc.kls2.com/ and type in SYD-HKG-LHR-SYD, and you'll see), but from Auckland, it is a tiny timesaver to go via LAX.
 
N77014
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:11 am

MNL has steadily seen a decline in european air service. While Australia provides a good deal of tourist traffic, I don't know if there is justification for more than 3x's a week on the AKL-MNL sector, on an NZ B767 at that.
 
KL808
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:24 am

Quoting N77014 (Reply 8):
MNL has steadily seen a decline in european air service. While Australia provides a good deal of tourist traffic, I don't know if there is justification for more than 3x's a week on the AKL-MNL sector, on an NZ B767 at that.

I think the main reason for the decline is due to carriers performance nothing to do with the economics of the city itself.

AZ closed MNL due to financial troubles
LX closed service due to financial troubles and lack of aircrafts
BA closed MNL wants to codeshare with CX instead
PR closed all its Euro flights due to lack of aircraft and financial hardship
AF closed MNL due to consolidation with KL.

The positives:

LH operates A346 to MNL
KL operates B777 to MNL NONSTOP!!!

I think at first it will be hard for NZ to operate LHR via MNL with B744, but with good advertisement and codeshare with PR we can see the flights AKL-MNL-LHR flourish.

just my opinion.

Drew
 
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airzim
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:41 am

Quoting N77014 (Reply 3):
making NZ1/2 the most profitable flights in the network.

AKL-LAX is very profitable, LHR...not so much. They are better off taking AKL-LAX and LAX-LHR locals rather than AKL-LHR. The fares onwards to LHR from AKL are often cheaper than getting off in LA.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:52 am

If the Great Circle Mapper is to be trusted, LHR-AKL nonstop (in theory) passes over the Kamchatka Penninsula, reasonably close to Japan.

A good stop would be NGO, if they could get the rights.
 
NZ1
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:10 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 10):
AKL-LAX is very profitable, LHR...not so much.

Where do you get your info? You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

NZ1
 
zonky
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:23 am

It's been hinted... and seems likely that AKL-HKG-LHR will start some time in 06/07.

Maybe. I'd not ask NZ1 or other insider to comment, but it's well within the realms of possibility. Clearly keeping SUH/refitting it was part of this decision, given the 772's will relieve the 744's on CHC-LAX & AKL-SFO.
 
cx750
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:37 am

NZ1,

Slightly off topic - are you aware of any payload issues on the B772 with the installation of the new biz class seats? Specifically, any issues with operating AKL-SFO?
 
N1120A
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:39 am

Quoting CX750 (Reply 14):
Slightly off topic - are you aware of any payload issues on the B772 with the installation of the new biz class seats? Specifically, any issues with operating AKL-SFO?

None at all. NZ flies with full 656,000 MTOW birds and should not even break a sweat to SFO (BTW, SFO-AKL would be the longer flight). UA's problems had to do with their 648,000 limit
 
dutchjet
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:40 am

Two interesting and innovative ideas above, MNL and NGO - although I really dont think that NZ would open up the LHR-AKL route via either of these cities as such a move would be risky.

I dont know if there is demand between LHR and MNL - European carriers have had limited success in MNL (KL is the exception) and even PR had to cut its flights to/from Europe; demand between Europe and MNL does not seem very strong. And MNL to AKL would also be a difficult route, limited business traffic, very little leisure traffic and few historical and demographic connections between the two nations. LHR-MNL-AKL seems very risky, and would have to rely too heavily on traffic going through from LHR to AKL.

LHR-NGO-AKL seems interesting from a routing and mileage view point, but I have no idea if NZ would be permitted to carry local traffic between LHR and NGO - my guess would be that it could not or, if some type of exception were arranged, it would be in very limited numbers. The inability to fill up the aircraft between LHR and NGO would probably make the route unprofitable for NZ.

There is also the "public perception" factor to take into account - for years passengers have been travelling between Australia/New Zealand/South Pacific cities and Europe either via the US (mainly LAX) or BKK or SIN (and recently HKG) - these seem to be the "accepted transit points", I am not sure that the public would accept flights routed via other Asian cities: even KUL, which makes perfect sense as an alternative to BKK and SIN, has had limited success in becoming a stopover point on the Kanagaroo Route.

Interesting ideas, however.
 
EmiratesUK
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:45 am

HI all,

after a chat with a colleague at NZ, NZ have been granted rights to fly extra frequencies in to LHR but have yet to gain the slots at LHR I was advised that they expect to be going double daily in early 06. (no mention if via LAX HKG or maybe SFO?!) also if they can't secure the slots at LHR then they would be looking at alternative my guesses are either LGW or MAN.
 
mainMAN
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:52 am

I'd be amazed if ever NZ appeared at MAN, especially as many carriers seem to be chasing the maximum of slots at LHR at the moment before it becomes officially full (notably TG, CX and UL)

I've no doubt that a routing MAN/LAX/AKL/SYD could be viable, the question is just when.
 
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airzim
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:11 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 12):
Where do you get your info? You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Actually I have worked in the head office and seen the numbers myself.

Sorry the LHR segment is not nearly as great as people are lead to believe.
 
NZ1
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:40 am

Quoting CX750 (Reply 14):
NZ1,

Slightly off topic - are you aware of any payload issues on the B772 with the installation of the new biz class seats? Specifically, any issues with operating AKL-SFO?

None at all

NZ1
 
777ER
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 11:57 am

Airzim

LAX-LHR as well as AKL-LAX are NZs biggest long haul money maker, its been proven time and time again.

You said that you have worked in the head office, which I take is NZs head office? How long ago was that?
 
777ER
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:02 pm

I'd be amazed if ever NZ appeared at MAN Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't NZ once operate to MAN using B742s?

I've no doubt that a routing MAN/LAX/AKL/SYD could be viable, the question is just when. B772s might do it
 
aussieindc
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:18 pm

Following on from Dutchjet though.

If I am not mistaken, in addition to the MH services with VS codeshare through KUL, EK operate both their Brisbane and Melbourne services through KUL.

Sure the Malaysian Islands would be a great stopover point for holiday makers, but would there really be the passenger numbers needed to operate AKL-KUL-LHR return?
 
NZ1
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:48 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 22):
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't NZ once operate to MAN using B742s?

Not that I'm aware of. Maybe on a diversion due to weather or medical emergency.

NZ1
 
v2fix
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:15 pm

Actually :

AKL-HKG-LHR 11683 miles
AKL-PVG-LHR 11562 miles
AKL-NRT-LHR 11443 miles

So via HKG is NOT the shortest route, via Japan is.

But, Air NZ does not have 5th Freedom via Japan. It does have 5th Freedom with China - which makes Hong Kong or Shanghai likely candidates. For such a long distance route 5th Freedom rights are important.

Also, there is no *A airline flying LHR-HKG or LHR-NRT so *A placing codes on this sector is likely. Not to mention the feeder traffic from British Midland (*A).

I think Air NZ will do what it has done so successfully in recent history - which is leverage the advantages of the *A network. So look for them to fly through a large *A hub. My money says : Hong Kong (with a spread bet on Shanghai)

The importance of LHR-LAX sector to the Air NZ network should not/cannot be underestimated - even if (at times of the year) the sector itself may not be profitable.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:36 pm

I thought HKG was one of the frontrunners as no Star Alliance Airlines serve the route at the moment. AKL-HKG-LHR would have a bigger and better chance of filling a 744 than MNL in my opinion. (this is based on the fact that there are nearly 3 daily flights from AKL-HKG and none to MNL)
 
NZ767
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:41 pm

777ER said:

"Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't NZ once operate to MAN using B742s?"

No they never have. They have called in on the odd diversion, that's about it.  Smile
 
777ER
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:45 pm

Thanks NZ1 and NZ767

Regards
 
mainMAN
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:09 pm

I've no doubt that a routing MAN/LAX/AKL/SYD could be viable, the question is just when. B772s might do it

More likely than NZ operating all the way to MAN would be a connection at LAX with either BD or US. This would probably make a further dent in BA and QF's direct services from the UK downunder, or upontop depending on your perspective!

I think NZ already has its flight code on SQ services to MAN. I know on the two occasions I've used SQ from MAN there have been people transferring to AKL and CHC (and hopefully plenty of them)
 
kiwiandrew

RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:31 pm

Quoting V2fix (Reply 25):
Also, there is no *A airline flying LHR-HKG or LHR-NRT so *A placing codes on this sector is likely. Not to mention the feeder traffic from British Midland (*A).

Doesn't NH still operate LHR NRT ? But I must admit my preference is for via HKG even though it does seem to be a crowded market ( BA 3x daily - CX increasing to 4 daily and the 3 x weekly QF service increasing to 4 weekly .. and eventually to daily ) as mentioned above by a number of people could pick up a lot of *A traffic currently either routed via FRA/MUC or forced to go on OW carriers as above. Wonder what VS would think about NZ going on to the route with VS business class suites - I suppose no different to the two of them competing on LAX-LHR
 
v2fix
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:26 pm

With permissions obtained for the second daily double from the UK government an early start on this sector must surely be looked for by Air NZ. (as soon as a slot can be purchased from another carrier at LHR - ball park price £25M))

Don't look at it being operated by any the metal than one of the 74Rs rolling out (the competition on the LHR-HKG sector is fierce with some of the best products in the air flying this sector (CX, BA, VS)).

Plus the scheduling problems of running one aircraft clockwise and other anti-clockwise where the size (number of PAXs is signifcantly different (744 v 772)) is just too difficult to contemplate. Imagine one of the planes going out of service out of NZ and the knock on that could have.

The only issue with HKG is the fierceness of competition - and that may cause Air NZ to look at PVG!
 
laca773
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:12 am

What are their loads factors on LAX-LHR-LAX? I hear NZ's service is superior to that of BA and VS? True?
 
SpinalTap
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:02 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 7):
The halfway-around-the-world line from England to Australasia (Australia/New Zealand) lies between Australia and New Zealand. From Sydney, the shortest route is actually via Hong Kong (go to http://gc.kls2.com/ and type in SYD-HKG-LHR-SYD, and you'll see), but from Auckland, it is a tiny timesaver to go via LAX.

Auckland actually lies at about 175° E so via Asia is actually marginally but not significantly shorter (London lies at 0 ° E/W). Somewhere in North Asia would provide the shortest route.

From http://gc.kls2.com
AKL-LHR (direct) = 18354 km
AKL-NRT-LHR = 18421 km
AKL-ICN-LHR = 18513 km
AKL-HKG-LHR = 18802 km
AKL-PVG-LHR = 18608 km (probably about time Air NZ started flying to China)
AKL-PEK-LHR = 18676 km

AKL-LAX-LHR 19248 km
AKL-SFO-LHR 19125 km

AKL-HNL-LHR 18709 km (Are there any direct services to HNL from Europe?)
 
SpinalTap
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:31 am

I don't believe there is a direct service from the UK or NZ to North Korea either,
how about AKL-FNJ-LHR 18507 km  Smile!
 
zeekiel
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:38 am

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 32):
I hear NZ's service is superior to that of BA and VS? True?

Depends on the eye of the beholder.

If you compare Economy or Pacific Economy, NZ has that great 34" seat pitch on their 744 aircraft. That would be the major advantage. The aircraft has AVOD and of course great Kiwi service.

Pacific Premium Economy. Well we are the only carrier offering this from New Zealand on long haul. Even larger seat pitch. Premium-check in facilities and a few more on-board amenities. Great. Only if I could figure out how to book on Pacific Premium Economy!!!

Business Premier. Just the VS seats there. Of course there is AVOD and all the trimmings to boot just like in any other business/first crossover.

I would have to say personally by what I have seen at product launches and on the internet, the Pacific Economy is very polished. Would give the heads at BA and VS something to think about. In fact the whole aircraft in general is very polished. Go you good thing!!!

Cheers

Zeekiel
 
777ER
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:39 am

What are their loads factors on LAX-LHR-LAX? Mostly all the time full. Sometimes a flight is booked out months before

I hear NZ's service is superior to that of BA and VS? True? Well you just need to look at my signature to see just some of the many awards NZ has won. Don't take my word for it try NZ for yourself to see what I mean. Will be interesting to see what awards NZ gets thanks to the new long haul products and the new fleet types
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:22 am

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 32):
I hear NZ's service is superior to that of BA and VS? True?

As mentioned bt 777ER, it is by personal preference. I recently travelled SQ and was suprised at how good the service was compared to previous occasions. All my NZ flights so far, customer service has been excepional, on a couple of occasions, staff from different departments have gone that extra bit further for me. I am sure there will be a few in NZ that are not as pleasent as the others but in my experience, it is great.

IFE wise, not so good yet but will be cahnging very soon. NZ is awsome. The customer serice and inflight attentiveness on board is second to none in my opinion.
 
NZ747
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:44 am

My money is on a AKL-HKG-LHR route. As mentioned, it is the service that currently sets NZ apart from the rest. With the new seats, I am sure NZ will jump up the ranks in all the other areas too. I used to prefer SQ over NZ when going long haul, but this will now change. 777ER, you should expect to add a lot more to that signature.

Cheers
 
sllevin
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:15 pm

Quoting N77014 (Reply 3):
They once had LAX-FRA flights

Back in the day... just after they opened that route, I flew LAX-FRA-LAX for the start and end of my school studies in Germany.

In that time (1988) it was on a 747-200 routed AKL-HNL-LAX-FRA and return.

Steve
 
777ER
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:54 pm

777ER, you should expect to add a lot more to that signature. Yea I know NZ747, I think I'm going to need Johan to allow extra digits to be added to the signature thou. I could also put in all the awards at the end of every post I make
 
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LAXintl
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:31 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 32):
What are their loads factors on LAX-LHR-LAX?

In 2004 LAX-LHR averaged a year around load factor of 82% with a significant percentage of local Los Angeles passengers, and the LAX-AKL segment averaged 79%.

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 29):
I've no doubt that a routing MAN/LAX/AKL/SYD could be viable, the question is just when. B772s might do it

I seriously doubt a LAX-MAN would be workable. BA during the 90s for several years tried a MAN-LAX flight using 763s with very disappointing results. Not only were loads terrible outside the summer months, but the market had near no premium traffic demand.

If Air NZ were to try another European market, somehow tying in the service to Star partner Lufthansa would likely be the most beneficial.
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:52 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 22):
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't NZ once operate to MAN using B742s?


Other than the possibility of emergency or diversion which NZ1 and NZ767 have covered, perhaps you are thinking of when Airtours International had ZK-NZZ on lease (only for Northern Hemisphere Summer 1998 I believe). The aircraft still carried the basic Air New Zealand scheme.


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upupandaway
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:09 am

As much as AKL HKG LHR appeals to me, or any other Asian destination for that matter, I don't think we will see that happen. Certainly operating a RTW route offers an edge of glamour and prestige that no other airline can offer (could be mistaken here - can't think of any other airline that flies RTW except SQ with SIN FRA JFK/EWR SIN - does that count?). Air NZ is a small airline and although they can be quite innovative in some areas (new Airpoints programme, rationalization of fare structures, etc), they are, essentially quite conservative. Launching flights via Asia to LHR would present some fundamental risks. Intense competition in a market - HKG to LHR - already well-serviced by other premium carriers, is the first that comes to mind. Although the addition of a Star carrier on this route would, on the surface, appear to be attractive, I am not convinced that this would be a primary motivator for Air NZ to operate this route. Air Nz would have to work extremely hard to develop this route and it may distract them from other areas. Air NZ already works in conjunction with VS by offering fares ex NZ and ex UK via HKG and NRT, so the option of offering competitive RTW fares already exists. NZ passengers can earn points on VS and vice versa.
I am sure there would be some other logistical problems - for example what would happen if the LHR HKG AKL flight falls over and pax have to fly on the NZ flight via LAX but don't have appropriate visa requirements for the US?
Maybe it would be quite simple, am not sure.
The most sensible (IMHO) would be to operate double daily AKL LAX LHR. Despite the pervasive opinion of LAX being a horrible airport, NZ has developed this airport has an important hub. NZ should consolidate there ops out of LAX rather than split their resource with another port. NZ have multiple flights to the islands and offer more convenient connections to SYD MEL and BNE, which may seem less convenient if pax had to travel via HKG for example.
They are the most prominent airline in the South Pacific and I am fairly certain that this makes NZ a popular choice for pax ex UK and Europe for those traveling to NZ and Australia who wish to travel via the Pacific islands. They should continue to build and develop this market and take a more conservative approach, rather than risk a route that may take years to develop.
Anyway, this is all based on guess work and supposition, but I would be very interested to hear what others at ANET THINK.
Cheers.
 
zeekiel
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RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:37 am

Quoting Upupandaway (Reply 43):
The most sensible (IMHO) would be to operate double daily AKL LAX LHR.

Through LAX for a double daily via the U.S!

Maybe SFO is a better alternative...

Less congested and less of a pain than the mess that is LAX. And believe me it is a mess.

Of course this is assuming a double daily would go through the United States in the first place.

Cheers

Zeekiel
 
upupandaway
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:57 pm

RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:16 am

AKL SFO LHR could also work quite well, especially as SFO is a significantly more passenger-friendly port than LAX. Developing Pacific routes ex SFO could work out quite nicely. I still think, however, that Air NZ will take the more conservative approach. Guess we won't find out for a while yet.
 
RichardJF
Posts: 565
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 7:07 pm

RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:01 am

AKL-LAX-LHR is a show route.
There is no possible business case to support the idea of NZ flying to Heathrow in the first place.
The Kangaroo route and all the hub players particularly EK and SQ sets the price for AKL-LHR. The only basis it does work as somebody pointed out in another post is that if you are carrying purely local traffic AKL-LAX combined with an LAX-LHR with no or very little through traffic. There is a good case for flying RTW services only in terms of serving niche high value markets markets relevant to SFO,LAX,SIN,HGK with 777's but impractical for CX,SQ,UA to serve because they wouldn't justify daily flights.
In other words flights with the only Kiwi's onboard working on the plane.
LHR should be dropped to perhaps 4 times per week and run something like AKL-LAS-LHR with a 777 or just dropped altogether. AKL-LAX-LHR twice a day would be nonsense.

AKL-HGK-LHR That would go down well with CX!

AKL-KUL-LHR or
AKL-MNL-LHR
That would just be suicide
However routing AKL-HGK via MNL as well as AKL-SIN via NOU a couple of times a week might not be too risky.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:13 pm

Quoting Zeekiel (Reply 44):
The most sensible (IMHO) would be to operate double daily AKL LAX LHR.

even if this were the most sensible option ( and as an ex travel agent with a large number of clients who would not fly NZ AKL-LHR purely because the flight goes through that **** airport I doubt it ) NZ cannot currently do it - the new agreement between the UK and New Zealand permits unlimited flights except through the US where a limitation of daily flights remains - it is believed that this restriction will remain in place until the UK and US have negociated an open skies agreement ( about the same time NW retires its DC9's and AF washes its aircraft )

 Smile
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8180
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:32 pm

NZ have tried to get Double daily LAX-LHR in the past just to try and get more slots at LHR. Not that wasy to do and they simply weren't allowed to add another LAX-LHR.

Not sure what you mean there RichardJF, NZ have a huge case to fly to LHR IMO.
 
zeekiel
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:59 am

RE: NZ's AKL-LHR Only Via LAX?

Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:27 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 47):
Quoting Zeekiel (Reply 44):
The most sensible (IMHO) would be to operate double daily AKL LAX LHR.

I never said that!!! (In a whining voice).  Smile

No problems bro. I know what you mean.

I suppose everything is linked to the double daily LHR service hinges on what stop can be acquired.

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 46):
There is no possible business case to support the idea of NZ flying to Heathrow in the first place.

Explain this. Apart from some of the facts we have heard earlier. Again we need some clarifications.

Cheers

Zeekiel

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