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OPNLguy
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:15 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 44):
Quoting AJRfromSYR (Reply 38):
What if Boeing decides to refit the 900 with the same doors and bulkheads without the extra range?

The bulkhead is what allows them to up the MTOW and add fuel for more range.

How does the flat bulkhead increase the MTOW?  Wink

I would think that the new flat bulkhead is what's allowing the additional seats, and thus the need for the door. I also would think it impractical to rework the aft pressure bulkhead on an existing aircraft, and would expect to see them just on new builds all across the NG family, just like we did with the eyebrow windows being removed.

As far as the additional range, my guess is that they'll be using a little of that extra fuselage length for an aux tank in one/both of the cargo areas, rather than rework the center fuel tank...

Time will tell if we actually see them at Southwest...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
MAS747
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:18 am

Lets hope Malaysian Airlines Fleet Upgrade goes to the 739ER, id love to see an MH Livery on those Blended winglets, and to see it flying domestic/regional routes
 
Espion007
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:26 am

Quoting Donder10 (Reply 8):
Finally!I've always thought that this could be popular as a 752 replacement for the likes of the European charter airlines that pack their passengers in like sardines.Upto now the 321,although not designed as a direct competitor of the 752,was the only aircraft in this segment.

While reading the entire article i kept thinking "737-900ER" is just a fancy way of saying "757-200" Big grin
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ASAFA
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:40 am

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 24):
Why does everyone keep saying WN? I just can't see them upgauging from the 73G to the 739ER. I mean, they won't even go to the 738, why would they jump 2 levels instead of just one?

I think WN is doing just fine in their current business model.   

Steve



Quoting MauriceB (Reply 25):
its because of crew issues...
they should have 4 FA's on the 800 , as well as on the 900 while it carries more passengers..

Actually in a single class configuration with 215 pax WN would actually require 5 FA's on board. I agree with Steve I don't see WN picking up the 739ER. I think they would rather leave people behind at the gate than take a plane out with empty seats. The 2-class 189 configuration still only requires 4 FA's, making it an attractive choice for many 800 customers.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:54 am

Quoting ASAFA (Reply 53):
Actually in a single class configuration with 215 pax WN would actually require 5 FA's on board.

I doubt we'd ever see Southwest using the 30" pitch the 215-passenger configuration assumes. A Southwest configuration would be just under 200, requiring only 4 FA's.
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pensacolaguy
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:15 am

Interesting that Boeing is launching the 737-900ER...Hopefaully It works out.
Question though..Will the 739ER be developed using composite materials like the 787?
 
Danny
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:16 am

Southwest does not need bigger aircraft. They don't have the highest LF in the industry and have been successful with current business plan for decades. Ain't broke - don't fix it so no order from SWA.

I would say Alaska is most probable following by Korean. Continental - maybe in a few years as they currently don't have any financing to pay for it.

Other suggestions are quite laughable. Air Berlin - hello they have just ordered dozens of Airbuses. Delta - on the verge of bankrupcy and in need to cut few billion in costs. It will be years before Delta orders anything.
 
freedom4all
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:48 am

Great for Boeing and Lion Air I don't know if this year could get any better for Boeing, I guess if we get the launch of the 747-ADV it will just top things off
long live the 747!
 
737-990
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:05 pm

While everyone assumes Alaska would be a natural choice to pick up some 739ERs I believe Alaska is committed to building up it's 738s as the mainstay of the fleet. I have mentioned before that the 738 is a perfect jack of all trades for Alaska that can easily be placed on any existing Alaska route or any potential new route. A new sub fleet type at the top end would only be used on select high density, long-haul routes and would be a waste of capacity on early morning flights or off peak times. Plus the way Alaska configures it's aircraft I doubt it would even have 185 seats on it. I think the real interest in the 739ER will come from charter airlines who can take advantage of a high density single class layout. I bet the next orders come from a European charter airline.
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KL808
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:12 pm

I want to hear comments from our Indonesian users as well as our Indonesian Airline experts.

I thought they said that this was all a fantasy?

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
deltairlines
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:35 pm

Just out of curiosity, but would Ryanair be interested in the 737-900ER? I know they have the 737-800s packed in at 189 seats, which is the maximum allowable on a 737 before this plane was launched. It seems like it has FR written all over it...fleet commonality with the 737-800, able to have 215 seats (which would happen at FR)...I just don't see FR not ordering any of these.

Jeff
 
CO737800
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:41 pm

Does anyone see a company like Air Transat getting some 739ER. I think it would be a great fit for some of the mexican flights they have
 
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Revelation
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:47 pm

Since the exterior dimensions of the 900s are the same, I thought I'd post a bunch of the nicest 900s I could find in the database so we could all oogle them. I think the retrojet look is way cool! In the night picture of the KLM being ground towed (7th picture below), the plane is so long and low to the ground it looks like a two-engined 707!


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FLY777UAL
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:32 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 50):
would think that the new flat bulkhead is what's allowing the additional seats, and thus the need for the door.

How exactly does the flat bulkhead do anything other than expand the usable space width and depth wise for the aft galley? See page 3 .

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
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N328KF
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:37 pm

Quoting Pensacolaguy (Reply 55):
Question though..Will the 739ER be developed using composite materials like the 787?

I do not work for them, but I would suspect that BCA's intent with the 737-900ER is to maintain maximum possible commonality with the standard 737-900. That means no exotic materials, and as much in the way of shared parts as possible.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
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Lt-AWACS
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:42 pm

Per their (Boeing's webpage pamphlet) numbers- 98% commonality with other 737NGs.

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RayChuang
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:49 pm

I personally think that Southwest Airlines (WN) could become the next customer for the 737-900ER after Lion Air.

Why? Because WN needs a plane big enough for long-range USA trancon flights from the likes of SMF, OAK, SJC, LAX, SAN, LAS and PHX to PVD, ISP, PHL, BWI, JAX, MCO, PBI and FLL. And they will be assigned specifically to these long routes, so the number of 739ER's ordered by WN might not exceed 40 planes.
 
AA777
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:36 pm

Congrats to Boeing! I cant wait to see this one when it rolls off the line! It looks like it will be another awesome 737!! Anyone placing their bets on who's up next to order a bunch of them?  Smile

Sigh, I dont know if there is ANY worthy replacement for the 757 though  tombstone   hypnotized 

-AA777
 
cslusarc
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:37 pm

I think that the 737-900ER has great potential between now and 2012 (when it is projected that Boeing will replace the 737NG with a new aircraft type).

Quoting CO737800 (Reply 61):
Does anyone see a company like Air Transat getting some 739ER.

I don't think that Air Transat would add the 737-900ER to its fleet. The type of routes that Air Transat would fly with a 737-900ER are currently flown by WS under a capacity purchase contract. I do think that WS buying the 737-900ER is a realistic prediction.
--cslusarc from YWG
 
aireuropeuk733
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:01 pm

Quoting Sam the Lab (Reply 30):
Boeing sure seems to have got things all mixed up by ending 757 production?

Totally agree with Sam The Lab - maybe they wish they's kept the 752 production line going. If they carry on playing with the 737 they'll end up with a 752 again.

Having said that good to see B kepping A on its toes.  Smile

AE733
It's nice to fly with friends
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:15 pm

Needs a cargo door ...
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
baw716
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:16 pm

Look for the 737-900ER to be another pond hopper. With a 3200nm range, it can easily get across the Atlantic from the east coast to points in Ireland and the UK. With a low payload (dedicated Business Class), it could probably make central Europe no sweat with maybe 70 passengers instead of the 48 now carried on the BBJ.

The 900ER could also be a potential Hawaii replacement aircraft. With a configuration of up to 215 seats, it could easily get into any of the Hawaiian airports and with the winglets, it should be able to get off relatively short runways and make the hop to the mainland with a full payload.

Another example of Boeing flexibility.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
JRadier
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:36 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 20):

hope KLM will order them!

I don't see that happen, remember KLM's 739 are fine the flights they fly (BCN/LHR/CDG etc), and they will not put those extra seats in (seatpitch would become too small).
 
whitehatter
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:29 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 66):
I personally think that Southwest Airlines (WN) could become the next customer for the 737-900ER after Lion Air.

What is it with you armchair CEOs and trying to rewrite the lowcost business models?

FR and WN are successful because they standardise. Crews and aircraft are interchangeable right across the system, a plane operating a twenty minute sector can go straight on to a four hour one. If it ain't broke then don't fix it.

The whole point of the WN operation is that they have one size of aircraft with one size of crew. All their costings and planning works round that, and there is minimal downtime and practically zero positioning required to put assets into place. WN is standardising on the 73G and FR on the 738. Anything else just complicates the mix and has potential to screw with a simple but profitable model.

Ever noticed that those carriers make money, whilst many others with mixed fleets don't? And you think it is smart to meddle with that? In that case I've got a bridge in London to sell to you...
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
columba
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:34 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 20):
Air Berlin (even though they orderd Airbus planes, this might complement theire big 737 fleet)

I seriously doubt that they have A321s on order that would make no sense at all, maybe if Boeing would have launched the 737-900X/-900ER a few years earlier then it might have had a chance with Air Berlin. It is a shame though since the 737-900 is such an elegant aircraft -much better looking then the A321 but the A321 was at least till now the superior aircraft with a lot of advantages for the airlines.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 31):
My uneducated guess is that the A321 segment is what the 737-900ER is aiming directly for.

It is not "undereducated" at all, you were just right !!!
Boeing had to do something, they had nothing in the size of an A321.
Airlines choose the A320 family because they had a better variety of aircraft (A318-A321) if Airlines needed a bigger plane with better range they had to choose the 757 which would be a completely different type if you´ve had an all 737 fleet.

Quoting Sam the Lab (Reply 30):
It is no 757 replacement though as the range is much less and it is hard to see much interest from European charter airlines as there is just too little range for a westerly long haul from Europe to America?

...........

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 33):
Very similar capacities/economics. The A321 has been selling quite well so the 739ER should be an interesting move for Boeing.

Many European charter airlines have just replaced their 757s with A320/A321s so it will be hard for Boeing to get some new customers here especially in Germany. In Germany only Hapag Fly comes to my mind that could need the 737-900ER. I hope so even if the TUI livery is hideous. Same goes for most European majors who have already A320/A321s in their fleet. Seems to me that the 737-900ER comes a little late for them, too.
But maybe some airlines around the world that already fly the 737-800 will order it like JAL for example.
Air Berlin - gone but not forgotten
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:10 pm

I think that 737-990 is correct in saying that AS will probably grow
the 800 fleet as opposed to ordering the 900ER.
The 800 is very versatile and has great range.
The 900ER, if you want the extended range, requires aux fuel tanks.
AS moves a lot of cargo, and from my understanding those fuel
tanks would take up belly space.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:54 pm

More information in the following article:

Tuesday, July 19, 2005

Boeing announces new 737, first order

By MALINI GOYAL
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

The Boeing Co. announced the launch yesterday of a new, higher-capacity, longer-range 737. Named 737-900ER, the new aircraft will carry 26 additional passengers, adding to its appeal for low-cost airlines.


Lion Air, Indonesia's first low-cost airline, ordered 60 of the new jets, worth $3.9 billion at list price. The company's firm order is for 30 planes, but the deal includes purchase rights for 30 additional jets. Delivery of the first of the new series is scheduled for the first half of 2007, the company said.

In an interview, Dinesh Keskar, senior vice president of sales and president of Boeing Aircraft Trading, said the company also is negotiating a deal for the 737-900ER with Spice Jet, a low-cost airline in India. That deal could add 10 more orders for the new model, five firm and five optional.

The 737-900ER is the same size as today's 737-900, but, with the addition of a pair of exit doors and a flat rear-pressure bulkhead, can carry up to 26 more passengers, raising the maximum capacity from 189 to 215 in a single-class layout.

The plane's range is expected to be 3,680 miles, up from 3,160 miles for the current 900 model.

"The next-generation 737 is the most efficient, single-aisle airplane family today, and we are thrilled to have Lion Air as the launch customer to increase the 737 family's capability with the additional range and seating of the 737-900ER," Alan Mulally, president and chief executive officer of Boeing Commercial Airplanes, said in a statement.

Powered by the CFM International CFM56-7B turbofan engines, the new derivative jet is expected to boast economic advantages over competing models. Boeing expects 9 percent lower operating costs per trip and 7 percent lower operating costs per seat than the Airbus A321.
One Nation Under God
 
tockeyhockey
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:00 pm

this seems to be the new 757. am i wrong?

will carriers with older 757s be looking to replace anytime sooon? some have to be, what, 20 years old?
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:08 pm

I see a JAL or ANA order coming along shortly. They were previously thought of as potential customers.

There could also be some orders for it from other 757 operators, but dont look for any from American Legacy carriers at this point in time.
One Nation Under God
 
ultrapig
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:21 pm

OK experts-757 v 737-I know the width is the same but is the vertical size of the tube the same. When i fly a 757 it sure s does feel bigger inside or is that simply because its higher off the ground?-I always thoguht the 757 had a larger cargo hold-more deeP?
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:24 pm

Quoting A350 (Reply 6):
Does anybody know if the other 737NGs will be avilable with these modifications, too?

I'd say it's a shoe in for these modifications to be applied to the BBJ line.  bigthumbsup 
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
N1120A
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:26 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 47):
Nevertheless, it seems AM is serious about considering -800's for certain domestic and cross-border routes and, in theory, AM has concluded that it is a viable option even from hot and high MEX.

As it is, the 738 or 739ER would be fine out of MEX for flights to LAX, SFO and MIA

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 49):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 12):
whats its takeoff run with a full load on a hot day?

Less than that of the -900

in realtion to the 752?

Longer.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 50):
How does the flat bulkhead increase the MTOW?

It strengthens the structure, allowing for greater weights. Same thing Airbus is doing with the higher MTOW A345/346 to allow them to not looks AS bad against the 772LR/773ER

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 50):
I would think that the new flat bulkhead is what's allowing the additional seats

What is allowing the additional seats is the third full exit door, which allows for a faster evacuation and higher seat certification

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 50):
As far as the additional range, my guess is that they'll be using a little of that extra fuselage length for an aux tank in one/both of the cargo areas, rather than rework the center fuel tank...

In order to add those tanks and that fuel, they had to increase the MTOW

Quoting ASAFA (Reply 53):
Actually in a single class configuration with 215 pax WN would actually require 5 FA's on board.

WN wouldn't fly in such a cramped configuration. Their current seat pitch is about 33", which would mean at least 2 rows pulled out (and then 4 more seats for good measure).

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 71):
Look for the 737-900ER to be another pond hopper.

Not a chance

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 71):
With a 3200nm range, it can easily get across the Atlantic from the east coast to points in Ireland and the UK.

Try getting it back from Ireland and the UK. As it is, the 738 (with marginally more range) and the 73G (with significantly more range) cannot hop the pond unless in an IGW and capacity limited configuration.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 73):
FR and WN are successful because they standardise

WN has operated subfleets for more than 20 years

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 77):
this seems to be the new 757. am i wrong?

No, it isn't
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
JRadier
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:32 pm

Are the winglets on this plane still optional, or are they part of the design?
 
N1120A
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:36 pm

Quoting JRadier (Reply 82):
Are the winglets on this plane still optional, or are they part of the design?

I suppose you could have it built without them, but it would not be wise. Boeing is building it with them in mind as the baseline
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:42 pm

This may seem like a dumb question, but is it for evacuation reasons that the new doors do not replace the overwing exits? I ask because I thought I remembered seeing illustraions of the 900X (at the time) of it having the new doors and the overwings eliminated.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
mauriceb
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:50 pm

Are the winglets on this plane still optional, or are they part of the design?


yes theire still optional....

anyway, i think the 900 is just the first updated aircraft of the NG line, because i can hardly imagine that Boeing will only update the 900 when its also possible on other models....
 
stirling
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:08 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 81):
It strengthens the structure, allowing for greater weights

I am not doubting what you're saying, but engineering school from my youth tells me that an arch/arc is a stronger platform than a straight line....But since Boeing is doing it...it must be true, but it confuses me all the same.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 62):
the plane is so long and low to the ground it looks like a two-engined 707!

My feelings exactly...this is one sexy lady..er..I mean airplane!

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 60):
Just out of curiosity, but would Ryanair be interested in the 737-900ER?

Interesting, but looking at what the range would give, (at a full load) 3200nm, it doesn't open up much...North/Central Africa, maybe some Egyptian Red Sea Resorts, the Gulf Region, the Northeast corner of Canada-Maritimes, and some central Russo-Asian former Republics.
So in all, I am thinking the 900ER would be too much for Ryanair...unless the need to carry more people is a significant need. Right now, looking at their network, and the fleet, it seems the -800 does what they need, for now.
The 900ER only has as much range as the standard -800.
The 900ER extends range by only 500nm over the -900.

Now a -800ER, that could be interesting.....with a range of 4000nm. Hmmm.

My sentiment is this -900ER is a temporary stop-gap measure to attract customers wanting the 757-200s passenger limit, but without the performance, for shorter sectors...since as we know, the best replacement for a 757, is a 757.
Delete this User
 
gigneil
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:20 pm

Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 32):
I read on this forum that AeroMéxico has interest on 739ER, as a 757 replacement, partly, because of the additional seats provided, but mainly, because the 738 (the only choice currently available) has payload restrictions (due to the high temp & high altitude conditions @ MEX, where eventually the plane would be mainly deployed).

As has been mentioned, the -900ER will be worse at MEX than a -800.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 37):
but KLM's 900's are only able to take the same pax as an 737-800 , because the older ones still don't have that extra exit door....

That's only in a 1 class config. In 2 classes, the -900 holds a fair bit more than a -800.

Are KLM's planes 1 class?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 44):
The bulkhead is what allows them to up the MTOW and add fuel for more range.

Not true. The plane features a wide variety of structural strengthening to allow for the MTOW hike.

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 49):
in realtion to the 752?

It was clearly in relation to the -900, but its also probably incorrect. Although the -900ER features some aerodynamic improvements for low-speed drag, it will still be heavier than and have the same engine thrust as the most powerful -900.

N
 
N1120A
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:27 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 87):
Are KLM's planes 1 class?

No
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
tockeyhockey
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:03 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 81):
No, it isn't

thanks for your elaborate and informative response. i am enlightened.
 
N1120A
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:12 am

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 89):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 81):
No, it isn't

thanks for your elaborate and informative response. i am enlightened.

 Silly Well, I went into why it is not a replacement earlier, so I figured that was enough of a response
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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N328KF
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Wed Jul 20, 2005 12:15 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 86):
Now a -800ER, that could be interesting.....with a range of 4000nm. Hmmm.

Well, in a sense, the 737-800ER already exists. It's used as the platform for the BBJ2 and MMA.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller
 
D950
Posts: 472
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:17 am

RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:27 am

Now that we have all the technical info, which is great, lets figure out who will get the planes after Lion goes belly up trying to pay for and maintain them.
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
 
sllevin
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Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:07 am

I agree that WN has been moving to a standard Y137 model over time.

That said, the times, they are a'changin. Five years ago the idea that WN would be running transcons would have been laughed away -- and rightly so.

As the market competition changes, WN may be interested in larger aircraft.

The two candidates would be:

1) 737-700+ -- a -700 stretched about 4 frames to allow for two more rows of seats for a Y149 config.

2) 737-900ER -- a Y189 config with range to handle transcons without trouble.

Steve
 
Tornado82
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:08 am

Quoting ASAFA (Reply 53):
I think they would rather leave people behind at the gate than take a plane out with empty seats.

Which is why they have one of the lower LF's in the industry?!? Umm.. wrong.

Quoting D950 (Reply 92):
Now that we have all the technical info, which is great, lets figure out who will get the planes after Lion goes belly up trying to pay for and maintain them.

CO and DL would make sense (finances aside). CO needs something to replace all the 75's they sent to Trans-Atlantic service, DL runs alot of 757 and 767 domestically. Send those to international where they can make more money, and keep these more fuel-efficient birds for the heavy domestic hops.
 
AJRfromSYR
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 6:03 am

RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:19 am

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 89):
thanks for your elaborate and informative response. i am enlightened.

The idea is that in the next 5-8 years the 787 will replace the 777-767-753 and a new 737 family will replace the 736-752.

The 900ER is just a quick, cheap and easy fix.
-AJR-
 
beauing
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 1:59 pm

RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:35 am

How many pax could a 757 hold a

Quoting AKelley728 (Reply 1):
raising the maximum capacity from 189 to 215 in a single-class layout.

How many pax would a 752 hold in a single-class layout, all other things being equal?
 
User avatar
Aloha717200
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RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:20 am

I'm very excited to see this happen!! I honestly didn't think he 739X would ever actually get launched but some of the improvements on this plane make me think that it will be by far more successful than the current 739.

I doubt it will ever see as many customers/orders as the 738 though, but boeing now finally has an effective competitor against the A321.

The plane is not really a full 752 replacement though, if you look at range/payload. It is much closer to the A321, but still covers a large segment of the 752's market.

I'm afraid I have to agree with some posters above though that say this might be too little, too late in terms of a competitor to the 321. I see this plane being successful with growing carriers and perhaps in time some legacies as well, but I doubt that carriers with mostly-airbus fleets would choose the 739ER over the 321. Time will tell.

I do think that this aircraft will effectively kill most future potential orders for the baseline 739. Only existing 739 customers, I believe, will continue to order the baseline model.

Quoting Sam the Lab (Reply 30):
Boeing sure seems to have got things all mixed up by ending 757 production?

As a fan of the 757-200 I wish I could agree. But, I doubt Boeing has any regrets about closing the 752 line. The reason being that a 739ER can be produced much cheaper as an addition to the existing 737NG line than having an entirely separate family of aircraft to cover the capacity gap between the 739 and the soon-to-come 787 family.

By closing the 757 line Boeing has streamlined its product range. The 752's market is not entirely covered by the 737 family, but, a large part of it is. The existing 739 is cheap to produce because it is essentially the same plane as a 738 but with a few modifications such as fuselage plugs, etc. The 739ER has a few more modifications but even at that is much cheaper to produce than maintaining a whole separate line of aircraft just to cover a market that is already being eaten away at the lower end by the 737NG family and at the upper end by the new 787. As much as it pains me to say it, from an economic standpoint Boeing probably made the right decision.  Sad

[Edited 2005-07-19 20:32:49]
 
Bluewave 707
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:21 am

RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:36 am

The 739ER would definitely give AS more options for expansion. One long-time FA told me there's talk of AS crossing the Pacific to Hawaii, but nothing has been formally announced.

WS could be another potential customer for the 739ER, with their expansion going on right now.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
dutchjet
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Boeing Launches 737-900ER

Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:46 am

Boeing made a good move by launching the 739ER, it is needed in the 737NG lineup to compete with the A32X family.

When Boeing created the 739, it went for the "simple strech" approach - lets make the 738 longer to add additonal rows of seats and some additonal cargo capacity which will result in less range. I dont think that anyone really anticipated that the range issue would become so important: as the 737 moved from its first to second to next generation models, airlines required that all members of the 737NG family have longer range capabilites and the shorter range 739 became problematic. Also, the original 739s maximum seating capicity being limited to 189 pax was a huge issue for European holiday airlines - both the 738 and 739 were limited to 189 pax - so there was no reason to buy the 739. Another big problem. Looking back, the simple-strech approach to the 739 was probably not the right move, the 739ER should have been the initial offering in this subclass.

The 739ER solves to two major issues that limited the popularity and sales of the base 739. Boeing needed to solve those issues to compete effectively with the A321-200 - and with the 757 now out of production, Boeing needed to make the 739 more effective. While the 739ER is certainly not a direct 757 replacement, it can fly almost the same amount of pax that a 757 can accommodate on most of the missions to which the 757 is assigned, with lower costs. While I do not expect to see the 739ER on any scheduled transatlantic runs, the 739ER can operate US transcons, US-Carib/Central America, Northern Europe/Scandic-Canaries, Europe-Middle East routes without many issues or limitations.

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