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Ibhayi
Topic Author
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 7:23 am

Airbus, Boeing Battle Gets Under Way At WTO

Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:28 am

Here it is, da da da dum.

Let battle commence, and may the less crooked bastard win.

The article outlines the basis of the argument brought forward to the WTO.

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/topstories.aspx?ID=BD4A71176
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11Bravo
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RE: Airbus, Boeing Battle Gets Under Way At WTO

Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting Ibhayi (Thread starter):
Let battle commence, and may the less crooked bastard win.

You got that right. I wonder how much dirty laundry will be aired before one of them decides to settle.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
Arrow
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Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:44 am

RE: Airbus, Boeing Battle Gets Under Way At WTO

Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:25 am

They should throw Bombardier and Embraer in there too -- get it all sorted out at once. Boeing and Airbus will rue the day they launched this cat fight. At least I hope they do.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
kappel
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RE: Airbus, Boeing Battle Gets Under Way At WTO

Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:45 am

There will be only losers in this battle, and a lot of mudslinging. I'm afraid this will escalate into a full-blown trade war.
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KL808
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RE: Airbus, Boeing Battle Gets Under Way At WTO

Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:46 am

Here's a thought to ponder about:

If the WTO rules against one of the two (if it gets that far), how will the sanctions be imposed?

Would you really think the US or Europe will allow itself to be sanctioned by the WTO?

Drew
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mrocktor
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RE: Airbus, Boeing Battle Gets Under Way At WTO

Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:54 am

Quoting Arrow (Reply 2):
They should throw Bombardier and Embraer in there too

Brazil has filed as an interested party. By the way, companies don't "battle" at the WTO, countries do.

mrocktor
 
boysteve
Posts: 890
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RE: Airbus, Boeing Battle Gets Under Way At WTO

Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:54 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 3):
There will be only losers in this battle, and a lot of mudslinging. I'm afraid this will escalate into a full-blown trade war.

I disagree, what about the lawyers?
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Airbus, Boeing Battle Gets Under Way At WTO

Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:02 am

Quoting KL808 (Reply 4):

Would you really think the US or Europe will allow itself to be sanctioned by the WTO?

The US has already lost several WTO cases with Europe, allowing for Europe to legally levy tariffs on US goods. This hasnt yet happened, but it does mean that basically the EU is in a better position because we have tariffs in reserve - if Boeing wins, Europe can still levy tariffs on Boeing aircraft in retaliation. If Europe wins, they can come down a lot harder on the US than the US could.

In my opinion, neither will win and both will lose. The WTO is likely to come out and point fingers in both directions, and Boeing and Airbus will go back to the table, sit down and sort out a new agreement (just like Europe wanted to do earlier this year). This is a posturing move that went too far.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Airbus, Boeing Battle Gets Under Way At WTO

Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 3):
There will be only losers in this battle, and a lot of mudslinging. I'm afraid this will escalate into a full-blown trade war.

I personally doubt it will result in a full blown trade war. I don't think either side wants that. But I do think it will be an embarrasing event for both Airbus and Boeing as they both have enough to hide. If either one comes out of it looking better, it will be a miracle. I fear both sides will lose in the longer term.

However, if it results in all subsidies for BOTH sides being eliminated, then it has achieved something.
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RichardPrice
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RE: Airbus, Boeing Battle Gets Under Way At WTO

Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:14 am

Some information on the European case:

http://www.publications.parliament.u...05/cmselect/cmtrdind/151/15107.htm
http://europa.eu.int/rapid/pressRele...&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

Note - I dont mean this post to be one sided, these were jsut links that I found useful a couple weeks back to refute misconceptions about Airbus loans and aid on another forum.
 
Arrow
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RE: Airbus, Boeing Battle Gets Under Way At WTO

Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:11 am

Quoting Mrocktor (Reply 5):
Brazil has filed as an interested party. By the way, companies don't "battle" at the WTO, countries do.


Yes -- but in this case the companies do all the pushing. Canada filed against Brazil because Bombardier pushed, and Brazil filed against Canada because Embraer pushed. Likewise Boeing and Airbus. Either way it's a big dogfight.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 8):
However, if it results in all subsidies for BOTH sides being eliminated, then it has achieved something.

Problem is, WTO rulings are not legally binding. Just look at the U.S. Byrd Amendment. All you gain is a right to retaliate. Canada won the right to retaiate against Brazil, and Brazil won the right to retaliate against Canada. Neither one did. I'm betting that after all the smoke has cleared on this one, neither side backs away from its subsidy programs, and business goes on as normal.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
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BlueSky1976
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RE: Airbus, Boeing Battle Gets Under Way At WTO

Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:11 am

Ahhh, good old politics... when will everyone realise that one side of the pond has one way of doing business, and the other side does it the other way??? Soo 19th century... Both Airbus and Boeing should stick to just building and marketing planes and selling them and let the market decide which product is best...

But of course, we don't live in a perfect world, so... let's just play cowboys and rednecks and bitch to WTO that someone is not doing things the same way we are doing it... Boeing doesn't need that agenda - they already are building superior planes and the numbers prove it... I guess it is hard for them to swallow, that they do have a viable competitor and a lot of times Airbus is biting into Boeing's turf... oh well... that's the way things work sometimes... Boeing should just accept the fact that there is a duopoly on 150+ seat commercial airplane market and they won't be a number one manufacturer every year, but the pendullum will keep swinging one way or another for the next few years...
Proudly avoiding 737 MAX since 18.11.2020.
 
Alitalia744
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Airbus, Boeing Battle Gets Under Way At WTO

Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:15 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 11):
Both Airbus and Boeing should stick to just building and marketing planes and selling them and let the market decide which product is best...

If that was the case we'd only see Boeing aircraft Smile KIDDING!

Seriously, both parties are at fault and both do receive subsidies. It's like two children fighting over who gets to ride the swing first on the playground...

Hopefully, it will result in free-market competition and both fighting for orders!
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
SWISSER
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RE: Airbus, Boeing Battle Gets Under Way At WTO

Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:18 am

Just read my signature,
and think about it!!
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