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CaptainZed
Topic Author
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Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:03 pm

In a full page report in 7 Days, a Dubai daily newspaper, i was shocked of what i read in the paper which released a humuliating report of an internal letter Terry Daly, EK vice president, has issued to his own crew!!!

The title reads:" No Problems with morale, despite tougher standards, says airline"

WHAT?!! I haven't seen an airline crew with a lower morale than those who work with Emirates!! and now this letter!

From the report:

" Emirates Airlines has issued a stern warning to cabin crew about service standards, as staff numbers reach 25,000 globally...
... Terry Daly, senior vice president, service delivery, targeted grooming standards, attitude, and service standards, including cabin monitoring, noise and galley behavior.....
..... i was appalled at some of the things i saw....."


and the best of the best was this one:
"... Many of our cabin crew are working in their first overseas employment ever and we appreciate that some may have difficulties in adjusting to a new working environment...."

(!!!)

Clearly EK management have NO clue in crew motivation! I knew about cabin crew who cried after they read the memo.

Generally EK is known to be the only airline in the globe who offers two to three food services in a typical 6 hours flight, with an erie big fake smile and pursers who slam their inferiors for not smiling enough to their "clients".

Not only the EK crew feels that he/she is considered as a mere waitress/waiter, but they get a humiliating media coverage for not being able to cope with the incompetence of the company's own vice president!!!!

Emirates, Keep Discovering..
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:24 pm

That is a very bad move by the airline, First of all to speak like that of your own staff and allow it to get to press , but to second of all think so low of their cabin crew , who are after all the face of the airline
Sure the crew aren't doing their job well, but you would have to ask why they are not doing their job properly.
Poor pay , long shifts, little benefits ?
I am always amazed at how much some pilots get paid compared to cabin crew. A managing pilot may get £160,000- £200,000 per year.

Now before you flame me , I know what responses lie on a pilots shoulders , they are responcable for hundreds of passengers and crews lives when landing a plane in an emergency and they have to keep their cool and do a safe landing when everybody else is screaming and shouting.

However, cabin crew ( even senior or management ) get paid MUCH less than that, and once the pilot has landed , he just jumps out and away he and his CO-pilot goes. The cabin crew are left to get the 300 odd ( say we are talking about a passenger 744) passengers off the plane and calming them down , getting them seated etc during the descend.

Managing Cabin crew - £40,000
Managing / chief Capitan - £160,000

I know not all pilots and cabin crew get this , but I'm talking about higher up levels ( i.e management) on BA

Happy Flying !!  wave 
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
teva
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:26 pm

Maybe the letter is not very diplomatic and probably should never have been made public. However, there is a real problem at EK.
The airline is growing too fast, and probably doesn't have time to train properly their staff. ( or they are not as strict as they were for the recruitment)
What is sure is that despite the quality of the EK product itself, I have observed a sharp decline in the quality of service. (and I have observed it can be worse if you don't look European or Arabic)
Even if the method is not the best, something has too be done quickly. Especially with the fierce competition in the region and the project Dubai has for its future.
Teva
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CV580Freak
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:29 pm

The "Arabic" Way Sad
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:34 pm

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 1):
Now before you flame me , I know what responses lie on a pilots shoulders , they are responcable for hundreds of passengers and crews lives when landing a plane in an emergency and they have to keep their cool and do a safe landing when everybody else is screaming and shouting.

Putting responsibility to the side, there is a big difference in the amount of training it takes to be a pilot & a flight attendant and the pay reflects those differences.
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CaptainZed
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:44 pm

I heard of tens of cabin crew leaving EK for Etihad, Singapore, ANA and even JAL!

I know someone will pop up to tell me that tens others are getting recruited, so it's imperative to highlight that it is so sad (at least for them) the quality of people who are leaving EK are the creme de la creme, and they are letting them go, compared to the inexperienced, holiday seeking blondies and asians, who are hired by batches!

These guys are sinking in their own waters..
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:53 pm

Can you post more of the article since what you've included doesn't seem bad at all unless I'm missing something...
I don't take responsibility at all
 
ikramerica
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:54 pm

Quoting Teva (Reply 2):
The airline is growing too fast, and probably doesn't have time to train properly their staff. ( or they are not as strict as they were for the recruitment)
What is sure is that despite the quality of the EK product itself, I have observed a sharp decline in the quality of service. (and I have observed it can be worse if you don't look European or Arabic)

This is the same problem AA had/has. At one time they were known for new planes with new interiors in great condition, as well as great service.

But a funny thing happens when service level slowly drops due to morale. Your product doesn't shine any more. And then, when the planes get older, and even in new equipment they don't take as much care as they should to keep it (non-safety related fittings) clean and in good order...

EK is benefiting from a new fleet, new routes and a currently shiny image. But since they don't charge a lot, and they claim not to be subsidized, there must be corners cut somewhere to make a profit. Looks like pay and training, and they need to be really, really careful they don't start alienating customers who only recently found them. If you are easily impressed with your first couple of great flights, you can also easily be discouraged by one or two not so great ones.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:02 am

I can assume this a big problem for both the company and the cabin crews.

From what I've heard keeping its motivation at EK is tougher than at any European charter airline !!

Very very long duties, very very rude pursers (I guess it's better not to say where the so callled "tough pursers" come from...). Moreover you have to manage all kind of nationalities.
Money should be the n°1 motivation, but it doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Has anyone any idea of a typical wage for a junior cabin crew ? And what about after 5 years of seniority ?

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
jacobin777
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:03 am

Quoting Teva (Reply 2):
What is sure is that despite the quality of the EK product itself, I have observed a sharp decline in the quality of service. (and I have observed it can be worse if you don't look European or Arabic)

well..I have posted countless amounts of times how EK's service has been going down the past 5-6 years....so much so to the point where I feel I will not be using their services for anything longer than 2 hours..hence, I'll only use them for a "short-haul" trip say from DXB-KHI or DXB-LHE..and with AirBlue coming online to DXB, I might stop using EK all together....I've been giving my business to EK for a long time, but with the way their service has been going down, I might not.....


before, the EK F/A's were friendy/chatting and it seemed they went out of their way more....

true, EK's service is still very good, and the F/A's aren't as rude/bad as the F/A's here, and their service is DEFINITELY better than the F/A's here..but nonetheless, I see EK's service going down quite a bit...

with the all the new aircraft coming online for EK, and with their rapid expansion, it seems more than likely that unless they get their act together, their service will go down even more....

that being said, if their is one carrier which can get it right, thats EK..they are quite a formidable opponent!!!
"Up the Irons!"
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:32 am

MidnightMike From United States, joined Mar 2003, 1749 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted Wed Aug 3 2005 16:34:11 UTC+2
"Putting responsibility to the side, there is a big difference in the amount of training it takes to be a pilot & a flight attendant and the pay reflects those differences."

That's true , cabin crew take a shorter time to train than pilots and nowadays it takes a lot of time , money and concentration to become a comercial pilot. You almost always have to join a flying school get a PPL and then go to a university who do flying training sit LOTS of exams and then go on from there.

However , IMO , Cabin crew are not paid enough in comparison to what they do , after all , they are the ones who serve you all your food and drinks on a flight anywhere between 30mins and 14hrs long ( or longer in some examples) for most of which they are on their feet, dealing with screaming childern and people who are afraid of flying
Also in an emergancy they are the ones who have to get all the passengers out in the quickest time possible.

Happy Flying !!  wave 
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
Amir
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:29 am

Hi to all,

living in DXB and flying with emirates around 20-30 Sectors a year in addition to other airlines, i can also confirm that the Service level is going done. But does this really surprise us:
- the airline is simply growing too fast
- the processes within the airline are weak. Take alone the fact that other to the industry standard, they buy the planes and only then start dispatching them, so it's not only the Market demand that determines their future plans.
- the big variety of ethnic nationalities is a gift when it comes to qualities like languages..Etc. But it is a real challenge to have one crew on one flight made up of up to 10 nationalities to act like a good team!
- Though the inflight service is still fine but you feel more and more that it's simply not professional. They fill you with food and other goodies but when there is an irregularity try to ask for help from the cabin crew and you will understand what i mean.

- there is no corporate culture among the staff. The average working period of an EK inflight crew member is around 24 months!


All in all, good service out of an average Economy class traveler (i consider EK's Economy product to be one of the best in the industry) but for frequent traveler there are other qualities that count and EK should better concentrate on this rather then upgrading like hell and pushing yield further down.

Best regards
Amir
-
 
mainMAN
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:24 am

The attitude of any one particular crew is often dependant upon the purser, which is just the same as any staff team and manager in any organisation. And of course, it doesn't help having the management slagging you off.

You either get a happy one, or a miserable one and sometimes it's the luck of the draw.

Slightly off-topic I know, but.....

The very worst service I ever experienced was on a very expensive Lufthansa ticket/flight MAN-FRA-NBO-HRE. I only asked for one drink, somewhere over Tanzania and the steward, who I could tell was 'on one' developed this murderous look, before he practically threw it at me.

I've never used LH since, and that was 15 years ago. Maybe EK should take note.

The best crew was on an Airtours charter all the way to Sydney in 2002. They were a really happy bunch  Smile
 
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yowza
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:02 am

I've been flying EK since I can remember (at least 6 sectors a year). I have never had a bad experience with them but I will acknowledge that the quality of service has dropped noticeably.

This decline is partially a product of growing too fast but mainly stems from of a lack of understanding of their clientele. For example wealthy Germans flying to the Maldives via Dubai will expect to be treated differently than Sudanese construction workers traveling back to Khartoum. Anyone who has lived in the Gulf will tell you that laborers are not treated well by the Arabs. Many of them are borderline illiterate and so need to be treated a little more firmly than those that are. That said this 'firmness' when used on a wealthy holiday maker will be perceived as rudeness.

I would suggest EK take some recruiting lessons from their cousins at QR. That is recruit more Eastern European and Asian FAs who see working in the Gulf as a career move rather than the flocks of Aussies and Kiwis who see working at EK as a change for just a couple years. (Although I do know a few Aussie hotties working for EK that know how to party!)

YOWza
 
charliecossie
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:05 am

Wrightbrothers:
You obviously don't know how much senior 747 captains and CSDs get on BA.
For 40k, a CSD wouldn't even wake up never mind get out of bed.
For 160k, a senior 747 captain might wake up.
On the other hand, the people in BA (or any airline) with the most responsibility every time an aircraft flies (the certifying engineer) just about scrapes 40k.

40 grand for a CSD. Hehehehe.
 
gigneil
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:12 am

This letter probably needed to go out. If the VP inflight tours and sees "appalling" results, that needs to get circulated to the staff.

This is a job, not a daycare.

N
 
JoKeR
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:15 am

If morale is low, Management are the ones to blame!

Blaming the airline's dropping standards purely on cabin crew is shallow!

The EK crew I know are miserable, and the few that have returned back home did not have many nice things to say about the way Emirates treats its staff.

Very sad.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:27 am

All that glitters is not gold.

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 16):
The EK crew I know are miserable, and the few that have returned back home did not have many nice things to say about the way Emirates treats its staff.

Could it just be a middle eastern work mentallity not fitting with the more "priviliged" expectations of "western" workers? After all, if you come from a nation with 35 hour work week and no possibility of being fired or having docked pay, or from a country where your entire F/A workforce is unionized and gets soft because of it, is being asked to "work hard" and not being treated like a child in need of nappies the reason for the dissatisfaction?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
JoKeR
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:45 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 17):
Could it just be a middle eastern work mentallity not fitting with the more "priviliged" expectations of "western" workers? After all, if you come from a nation with 35 hour work week and no possibility of being fired or having docked pay, or from a country where your entire F/A workforce is unionized and gets soft because of it, is being asked to "work hard" and not being treated like a child in need of nappies the reason for the dissatisfaction?

Wow, you should apply for a post at Emirates right away as you perfectly fit the profile of a robot they are seeking!  Smile

Going back to your answer, no, not quite, probably more due to the fact that you immediately get fired if you fall pregnant and want a family, or that you are told to resign if you are diagnosed with a terminal illness and not assisted in any way by the company.

Hardly the same don't you think?
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:40 am

Quoting Charliecossie (Reply 14):
Wrightbrothers:
You obviously don't know how much senior 747 captains and CSDs get on BA.
For 40k, a CSD wouldn't even wake up never mind get out of bed.
For 160k, a senior 747 captain might wake up.
On the other hand, the people in BA (or any airline) with the most responsibility every time an aircraft flies (the certifying engineer) just about scrapes 40k.

40 grand for a CSD. Hehehehe.

Sorry , i don't REALY know how much they earn , i just guessed . Do you know how much they earn by any chance ?

Happy Flying !!  wave 
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
777boi
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:26 am

Let me assure you, the letter did not go down well at all... and then to see this in 7 days just added a little more insult! The only thing this letter did was de-motivate the crew who were sticking to the books, and anger those who were not! Maybe they should take a little peek further behind the scenes first and see the other factors that could be causing these problems with the crew in the first place! Just ask 100 crew and I am sure they will all give the same answer!
Yes.. lots of crew are leaving. quiet a few are leaving for NZ london base aswell. But in EK's defense, their turn over of crew has always been quiet quick.. espesially amongst those from Aus, New zealand and the UK. Always has been, always will be!
 
Ejazz
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:45 am

Quoting CaptainZed (Reply 5):
I heard of tens of cabin crew leaving EK for Etihad, Singapore, ANA and even JAL!

An SIA Cabin Crew Executive gave a figure of 108 mainly Indian SIA Cabin Crew have left within the last year for Emirates. No Emirates Cabin Crew have joined SIA.

Whilst on the subject 11 mainly local SIA First Officers have either left or resigned for Emirates whilst one Emirates First Officer I believe has joined SIA Cargo.
Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:56 am

Clearly EK has a management problem. Mr Daley by his own admission is unable to get the job done.
Time to clean house!!
 
Milesdependent
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:01 am

http://www.7days.ae/other-business/e...ates-battles-growing-pains-14.html

I think that is the original article. Quite short really.
 
Emirates2005
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:11 pm

It happened to other ailines... it will happen/is happening to Emirates.

CaptainZed, PLEASE stop creating an elephant from an ant. I have several friends working for Emirates as cabin crew and only wish that my pay and benefits could be like their.

As a summary:

If you work in first class
- +/- 12,000 Dirhams (3,300 Dollars) a month salary (+/- 40,000 Dollars a year)
- free accomodation (huge appartments!!!)
- Staying ONLY in 5* hotels abroad
- Extra money while abroad

AND... they do tend to call in sick from time to time just because they do not feel like flying or their friend is throwing a party, or a new fashion shop is opening.

Now tell me who in our jobs has the liberty of saying: "Nah... I won't go to the office today... just don't feel like it"; without getting half a zillion papers from all doctors accross the planet before picking up the phone.

Fact is, that Emirates is growing very fast and may find issues with spending enough time training cabin crew, resulting in slippage of service standards. Just look what happened in Toronto. Proper training for emergency situations and service is a must and personal opinions do move aside. Just think about it the next time you fly...

Also, please do not take this as my bashing of Emirates. Emirates is my favourite airline and no matter what, I will not change that opinion.
A310, A332, B732, B738, B742, B743, B773, B77W, DC-10, ATR42, TU-134, TU-154, IL-62, MI-8, E190, A320, C172
 
Emirates2005
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:15 pm

P.S. I forgot to mention that based on business levels (which keep on growing) cabin crew have received bonuses of twice their monthly salary as a Thank You from the Airline.
A310, A332, B732, B738, B742, B743, B773, B77W, DC-10, ATR42, TU-134, TU-154, IL-62, MI-8, E190, A320, C172
 
Aman777
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:49 pm

I don't see anything significantly different than what other airlines offer their cabin crew (but that’s besides the point).

I think the bottom line is that a situation like this should not be made public and management at EK needs to go back to basic employee motivation models to back align them with their business philosophy. Criticizing employee performance with the public can really ruin employee morel and ultimately can really hurt the organization. If I was the management I would apologize to the cabin crew of what has transpired and develop better working relationships with them.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:56 pm

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 18):
Going back to your answer, no, not quite, probably more due to the fact that you immediately get fired if you fall pregnant and want a family, or that you are told to resign if you are diagnosed with a terminal illness and not assisted in any way by the company.

Hardly the same don't you think?

No, not the same. What I described is the end result of unionization or socialization, what you describe sounds like the cause for unions and socialism in the first place! (though without the constant deadly worker accidents...)

A good and profitable workplace that is not subsidized or government protected falls somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Emirates2005
Posts: 133
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:00 pm

Quoting Aman777 (Reply 26):
Criticizing employee performance with the public can really ruin employee morel and ultimately can really hurt the organization

Good point. However, living in the UAE and having a chance to read that article, the memo was given to the crew and NOT to the media. Therefore the source to the media is.....

BTW, I read the memo too and it highlighted service standards and the importance of keeping these high. How can someone cry over a piece of paper that tells/highlights the work you are being paid for???

I got only 1 philosophy in life.... Can't do it? Don't do it.
A310, A332, B732, B738, B742, B743, B773, B77W, DC-10, ATR42, TU-134, TU-154, IL-62, MI-8, E190, A320, C172
 
ikramerica
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:04 pm

Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 28):
Can't do it? Don't do it.

Sadly, in much of the world, it is now "if you want to do it, you have the right to be paid to do it, no matter how unsuited you are for it."
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
semsem
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:45 pm

<- +/- 12,000 Dirhams (3,300 Dollars) a month salary (+/- 40,000 Dollars a year)- free accomodation (huge appartments!!!)>>

And I think the salary is tax free. Not bad at all.
 
blue787
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:06 pm

HMMMM, glad I read all this, I had some thought of flying EK to FCO later this year, but having read these opinions, I will fly on some other carrier. Even if they dont flyB777.I have several friends who have flown EK,and I did not listen to their reports on the flights.All I can say is :if the BIG BOSS thinks the crew are useless, maybe just maybe he might just be right. Is it not his job to make sure that his front linen staff are pulling together????I learnt many years ago " chastise your staff in private not in the presence of others" but to do this for the press to publish in my opinion stinks.
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:32 pm

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 3):
The "Arabic" Way

What is the "Arabic" way?
The "Arabic" way of Terry Daly (who really sounds to be Arabic)
or
The "Arabic" way of Crewmembers who come from more than 50 contries?
signature censored by admin - so check my profile
 
Emirates2005
Posts: 133
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:31 pm

Quoting Semsem (Reply 30):
And I think the salary is tax free. Not bad at all.

Yes... that is right.

Quoting Blue787 (Reply 31):
" chastise your staff in private not in the presence of others" but to do this for the press to publish in my opinion stinks

Please read my post again... The memo was sent to Emirates crew ONLY. Not into the newspaper. We get memos all the time and the only way that the press can know about it is that someone actually provides them with a copy. Emirates is not that $&#$^ to send a reprimand memo and have it printed in the newspaper.  banghead 
A310, A332, B732, B738, B742, B743, B773, B77W, DC-10, ATR42, TU-134, TU-154, IL-62, MI-8, E190, A320, C172
 
JoKeR
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:41 pm

Quoting Semsem (Reply 30):
+/- 12,000 Dirhams (3,300 Dollars) a month salary (+/- 40,000 Dollars a year)- free accomodation (huge appartments!!!

Excuse my ignorance, but this sounds very high for a cabin crew salary, perhaps this is applicable to more senior crews?
 
Emirates2005
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:43 pm

RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:44 pm

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 34):
Excuse my ignorance, but this sounds very high for a cabin crew salary, perhaps this is applicable to more senior crews?

No ignorance at all. That really IS the salary.
A310, A332, B732, B738, B742, B743, B773, B77W, DC-10, ATR42, TU-134, TU-154, IL-62, MI-8, E190, A320, C172
 
isuA380B777
Posts: 166
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:12 pm

Quoting Charliecossie (Reply 14):
40 grand for a CSD. Hehehehe

Hi
What is CSD standard for?

Thanks
 
EK156
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RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:19 pm

I believe this issue has been blown out of proportion due to the leak of the memo to the press!!! I don't think that this memo should have gone to the press and if that person who leaked it thinks they are clever then guess again cause now alot of people who read the article on 7 Days think that EK Crew are not doing their job right and they are messing up!!! Maybe some people will say this should go back to the management, but alot of people would think that the crew are messing up!! So now with this leak, they look WORSE!!!

Today I spoke to a senior cabin crew friend of mine of works for EK. She told me the standards of recruiting has dropped. EK is not as strict as they were because they need 15,000 cabin crew by 2010!! And with the high turnover rate, it is becoming difficult to monitor the standard of the crew!! Alot of the new crew are sloppy. But the training program has not changed!! I think this is a mistake cause with more crew joining, EK should improvise a different training program that will accomodate a fast growing airline. Apparantely they are working on new programs...let's see how that goes!!!

As for the current crew! There are alot of excellent cabin crew at EK. Unfortunately when a small group does something wrong, all of them get a warning. I think this is normal in all big companies!! But it is not normal for this kinda memo to leak out!! This is wrong!!!

I have seen in many incidents where a company grows fast and the service declines due to many factors but mainly because of the company growing fast and the increasing number of staff!! Actually EK is under staffed in the cabin crew department and they are struggling to employ more crew to cope with the new airplanes. I think when things settle down, service will pick up again and this whole issue will be somehow improved!

I feel for the EK Crew who are doing a great job but are suffering from the below average quality of other crew!! EK should take another look at the quality of it's crew and re-assess the whole situation!! They should also monitor the trainers and the CCS encharge of the crew. They should also monitor scheduling department who sometimes mess up a crew's whole roster! It is an all in all situation cause one mistake all the way down the line, is only caused by an error that occured all the way up the line!

Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 35):
Quoting JoKeR (Reply 34):
Excuse my ignorance, but this sounds very high for a cabin crew salary, perhaps this is applicable to more senior crews?

No ignorance at all. That really IS the salary.

This is an FG1 salary mate or SFS or Purser

Grade 2 who work in economy get USD 1000 basic plus flying hours + other benefits. So they get more or less USD 1600 to 1800 per month. USD 3300 is only for senior cabin crew!
 
JoKeR
Posts: 1851
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:34 pm

RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:20 pm

Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 35):
No ignorance at all. That really IS the salary.

For what seniority though?
 
airlinefreak1
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2000 5:13 pm

RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:44 pm

I agree with Emirates2005 , EK is also my favorite airline , their product and service was top notch back in the 90's , but service espc. From the junior cabin crew has gone down dramatically . The airline hasn't been awarded with awards since 2002 , and was downgraded to 4* , while QR surpasses EK becuase of their professional Cabincrew. If you check Skytrax's forum's , the majority of the comments are about EK's cabin crew .
So its about time EK address this issue and take it seriously.

I am a frequent flyer with EK, and inconsistency is now very noticable . One flight could be perfect while the return is average to poor . Racism towards PAX from poor countries is notable and embarrassing.

I personally saw on numerous times , FA's from Australia , UK , Lebanon Newzealand , who are beginners and inexperienced, are working in dubai just for the sun ,abit of cash and experience (ive spoken to a Kiwi FA onboard a flight to manchester this year - and she admitted it, she doesn't take this job seriously and she never did) .

I personally think EK should re-think the recruiting policy , and employ more Far eastern FA's ( I had some of the best FA's from the Philippines, Japan, S. Korea and china) and learn from QR . - I believe they are more genuine , pleasant and much more efficient !

Regards ,
 
Emirates2005
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:43 pm

RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:53 pm

Quoting EK156 (Reply 37):
Grade 2 who work in economy get USD 1000 basic plus flying hours + other benefits. So they get more or less USD 1600 to 1800 per month. USD 3300 is only for senior cabin crew!

The entry salary is 4,400 Dirhams per month (1,200)... without even seeing a plane. Flying hours, stays, appartment and other benefits are extra.

Friend of mine is in the First (2 years now) and that is her salary without benefits.

Otherwise, I fully agree with the rest of your post. I too believe that the recruiting standard has dropped. Emirates is an excellent airline and will continue to be one as long as they address the issue of recruiting sloppy F/As.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 15):
This letter probably needed to go out. If the VP inflight tours and sees "appalling" results, that needs to get circulated to the staff.

This is a job, not a daycare.

Right on...

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 38):
For what seniority though?

About 5+ year with the airline and of course in First.
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wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:56 pm

Quoting IsuA380B777 (Reply 36):
Hi
What is CSD standard for?

It stands for Cabin Service Director
They are the cabin crew member who is in overall charge of all the other cabin crew and in-flight cabin services. They are usual the one who does the announcements over the intercom on the aircraft ( i.e- safety briefing) . Basically , they are the person in charge.
Hope that explains all

Happy Flying !!  wave 
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
charliecossie
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 5:17 am

RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:41 pm

Wrightbrothers:
A CSD will easily gross 60k (if not more).
The most junior LGW crew get a lot less (10k basic + limited allowances).

Pilot pay is a big secret but I suspect senior 747 captains are in the 150-200k range. Junior FOs probably 40k.
Quids, of course.
 
CaptainZed
Topic Author
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:21 pm

RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:13 pm

ok, seems like a lot of unfounded and surreal wishes are being thrown left right and center looking for innocent believing ears.

Fact is, not all that shines is gold.

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 3):
The "Arabic" Way

Considering EK Vice President is British and President Australian, it can't get more arabic than this..

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 16):
If morale is low, Management are the ones to blame!

Right on. Fact is, i understand the frustration of the EK management here cos, what would you do if Sheikh Ahmed taps you on the shoulder for doing a bad job and your neck is on the line? blame urself?  

Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 24):
If you work in first class
- +/- 12,000 Dirhams (3,300 Dollars) a month salary (+/- 40,000 Dollars a year)
- free accomodation (huge appartments!!!)
- Staying ONLY in 5* hotels abroad
- Extra money while abroad

- First class cabin crew basic monthly salary is no where near 4500 AED plus. 4000 AED as a maximum. It's easy to know these things in Dubai u know.
- Huge appartments yes that u have to share with three mates.
- 5 star hotels r what all airlines offer.
- extra money while abroad too. Nothing special for EK crew.

But u missed out on something. The emirati crew!
Actually in average the basic salary of an emirati cabin crew is somwhere close to 14,000 AED going up to pursers 25,000 AED plus accomodation (while they are staying at their parents) AND different training coaches and programs! Only for being emirati, and for flying much less than that poor philipino crew, u get triple the salary for showing a passport. If discrimination is anything else than this, pls let anyone enlighten me.

Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 24):
AND... they do tend to call in sick from time to time just because they do not feel like flying or their friend is throwing a party, or a new fashion shop is opening.

And who's fault is that? The child or the parents?

Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 24):
Fact is, that Emirates is growing very fast and may find issues with spending enough time training cabin crew, resulting in slippage of service standards. Just look what happened in Toronto.

No no no.. it's much more simple than you think. They are spending most of their money buying A380s and building football stadiums in the UK and Australia, that they are left with no money for improving training programs and trainers!   simple.

Hiding behind the moto "airline growing fast", is an unfounded alibi!
You said it very well, "can't do it? don't do it."  

Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 25):
cabin crew have received bonuses of twice their monthly salary as a Thank You from the Airline.

Last bonus they received was three weeks of basic salary. Basic is being that 3000 something AED, less than a 1000 USD.

Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 28):
the memo was given to the crew and NOT to the media. Therefore the source to the media is.....

Maybe next time Mr Daly gets a tap on his shoulder form Sheikh Ahmed he should reconsider humiliating his crew in public! Sending a general memo to all 25,000 crew IS bringing it out to public!!

Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 28):
I read the memo too and it highlighted service standards and the importance of keeping these high.

Aaaand, how many times did this letter actually mention the no1 word responsibility of cabin crew inflight, which is Safety? nul.

Quoting Semsem (Reply 30):
And I think the salary is tax free. Not bad at all.

Salary is tax free of course! You have no unions, no pregnancy leaves, no reliable health coverage, no retirement plans....

Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 33):
Emirates is not that $&#$^ to send a reprimand memo and have it printed in the newspaper.

But it's so professional when it blames its own crew, trained by its own people, for a job that is supposed to be supervised by their seniors.

Quoting EK156 (Reply 37):
I believe this issue has been blown out of proportion due to the leak of the memo to the press!!!

Well, with the things like to happen in Dubai, big shots like EK like to keep things secret. Stay away from press, from telling the Truth, from revealing the problem and try to solve it. Thank God for some of them who had the guts to send this humiliation to public!

Quoting EK156 (Reply 37):
Maybe some people will say this should go back to the management, but alot of people would think that the crew are messing up!! So now with this leak, they look WORSE!!!

Absolutely not! Any mature resident can make the difference between the job of a REAL flight attendant, and the job of a Vice President of a company. In fact you want the Truth, EK cabin crew are doing MUCH more than their jobs!!

Quoting EK156 (Reply 37):
I think this is normal in all big companies!!

A big company has to deserve the title. Big doesn't always mean big airplanes.

Quoting EK156 (Reply 37):
This is an FG1 salary mate or SFS or Purser

Not even.


When an emirati colleagues does half the work a cabin crew does and gets triple the salary, then talk to me about MOTIVATION!!

[Edited 2005-08-04 15:14:06]
 
777boi
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:22 pm

RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:28 pm

Yes... of course something has to be done to keeps EK's standards high, but really a letter like this slagging soley the crew is not the way to go about it! Some consistancy in management and schedualing would go a long way to helping crew moral, and in turn performance on board! Dont get me wrong tho, there are crew here who are full of attitude and wouldn't know a real days work if it jumped up and hit them in the face.. those few, are in turn, making things harder for the rest of us!
As for the pay. working on a 90 hour month (which is what we all seem to be doing lately), it works out to be approx $2500 (USD) per month for business class crew ( crew who have usually been in the company for around 2 years or more).
 
Emirates2005
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:43 pm

RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:34 pm

Quoting CaptainZed (Reply 43):
- First class cabin crew basic monthly salary is no where near 4500 AED plus. 4000 AED as a maximum. It's easy to know these things in Dubai u know.

I hope you are joking about this, otherwise you really need to get your numbers right...  scratchchin 

Quoting CaptainZed (Reply 43):
Last bonus they received was three weeks of basic salary. Basic is being that 3000 something AED, less than a 1000 USD.

Same as above

This is straight from EK Recruitment website...

A three year renewable contract.

A tax-free starting salary of AED 3,640 (approx. US$ 1,000) plus flying pay of approximately US$ 600 per month. (In Dirhams = 5,840 per month)

High quality furnished shared accommodation (own bedroom).

Comprehensive medical coverage.

Free duty transport.

End-of-service benefits. A bonus is also payable on completion of the first three year contract.

Free of charge annual leave ticket to your home country.

Generous travel concessions on Emirates and other airlines.



I agree that EK management has to do something about the service standards, however before some pi**ed off cabin crew gets the notions to blow this out of proportion and point fingers, they should turn the finger around and point at them selves. I'll bet whatever you want, that those cabin crew who do their job properly have actually ignored the memo as it did not critize them, rather the sloppy ones.

Need I say more?
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CaptainZed
Topic Author
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:21 pm

RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:24 pm

Quoting Emirates2005 (Reply 45):
however before some pi**ed off cabin crew gets the notions to blow this out of proportion and point fingers, they should turn the finger around and point at them selves. I'll bet whatever you want, that those cabin crew who do their job properly have actually ignored the memo as it did not critize them, rather the sloppy ones.

It is exactly those who did their jobs perfectly who got the most offended,
It is exactly those sloppy ones who are hiding behind the great work of the few who ignored this memo,

It is exactly the typical denied guiltiness that drives a man to reflect his failure on the rest around him.

No, you do not need to say more..
The "everyone in one basket" mentality of EK is doing nothing but giving the good individuals a slap of un-motivational spirit.
 
CaptainZed
Topic Author
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:21 pm

RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:26 pm

One more thing: I'm afraid i'll have to rely on my source's payrolls rather than your website.

Your site looks more like a promotional holiday ul never win.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:43 pm

Quoting EK156 (Reply 37):
Today I spoke to a senior cabin crew friend of mine of works for EK. She told me the standards of recruiting has dropped. EK is not as strict as they were because they need 15,000 cabin crew by 2010!! And with the high turnover rate, it is becoming difficult to monitor the standard of the crew!! Alot of the new crew are sloppy. But the training program has not changed!! I think this is a mistake cause with more crew joining, EK should improvise a different training program that will accomodate a fast growing airline. Apparantely they are working on new programs...let's see how that goes!!!

thats the EXACTLY the problem which people have been mentioning...they are expanding too quickly..and this is what happens when a company expands too quickly..

I think they will have operational integration problems down the line also..its just natural...

granted all of The Leviathan aren't coming online simulatneously, but EK still have tons of planes coming online, not to mention, competition is heating up big time!!!

It will be interesting to see what EK does in the future and how it handles this situation!!
"Up the Irons!"
 
Emirates2005
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:43 pm

RE: Emirates Airlines Vice President Slams Own Crew!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:14 am

Quoting CaptainZed (Reply 47):
One more thing: I'm afraid i'll have to rely on my source's payrolls rather than your website.

Your site looks more like a promotional holiday ul never win.

Whoooo. don't you love it when a personal attack comes in?  box  Opinion is bliss... Facts are everything. Bye  biggrin 
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