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777ER
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WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:53 pm

Wellington International is getting a new $76m+ International terminal. The Runway will be extended upto an extra 200 metres into the sea. Construction will start early next year. WIAL (Wellington International Airport Limited) CEO said on One News that the new extended runway will enable bigger aircraft to operate from WLG, but didn't say which type. The CEO did say on a local Wellington radio station that aircraft upto B777/A340 could operate safly from WLG.

On a side note. A few months ago WLG and Wellington City Council said they were talking to some International airlines (including some NOT currently operating to WLG) about them starting flights, including long haul flights to WLG

http://www.tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411749/601973
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:07 pm

Nice.

A340's cough, cough. I'd like to see that happen I guess there is a slight chance EK could operate a 345 to SYD or MEL, no way will a 343 ever go there.

777's, now where talking, i'd say EK might be keen to operate a 772 there from somewhere. Not a 773 though.

I don't think an extra 200 metre's will be anywhere enough to allow for long haul flights to Asia and the West Coast of the US.
 
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NZ107
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:27 pm

So when does the RSEA development finishing? Does this mean that the runway will only be extended by 200m because the RSEA is not counted as part of the "runway"?

I think we'll be seeing Air NZ turn some options into 787's for flights to HNL, SIN, HKG etc; maybe we might have future orders of this aircraft from other airlines they have been talking to...
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:02 pm

And it will still be affected by adverse weather (wind, fog). I am a believer in a new airport on a greenfield site in the Paraparaumu/Kapiti Coast area (an idea that has been floated a number of times but never gathered enough momentum). Granted there would be some distance between the airport and the CBD, but I believe with an upgraded highway and a link to the rail network, it would be perfectly feasible. To my understanding, the site would be at least as convenient as Rongotai as far as Hutt City is concerned, and it would also be a lot closer to Palmerston North, further increasing its catchment area.

An airport on the Kapiti Coast could also make a useful site for air cargo operations, which are currently pretty heavily centred on Auckland and, to a lesser extent, Christchurch. I don't believe Rongotai could provide decent facilities or runway length for it to be fesible there. Perhaps the biggest advantage, as far as I am aware, is the somewhat better weather conditions experienced there as opposed to Rongotai - I am told the wind is much less brutal, and the fog much less frequent.

In all, I think putting more money into developing the Rongotai site, as close to the city as it is, is a bit of a dead end.

Still, that being said, it is nice to see that Wellington is doing something to improve the current airport. The main terminal building is great (probably one of the best in the country), but the international section could do with some attention, and the field itself with the 1900m runway, and 'death' zones at either end, is a bit sad for the nation's capital city. I will be keen to see how much more international traffic the airport attracts once these works are complete. Who knows, perhaps my view of Rongotai as a dead end will be proven wrong!

V/F
 
aerokiwi
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:34 pm

Hehe, Wellington has even less chance of new long haul international flights than Christchurch.

At least Christchurch is a gateway to the beautiful South Island, a massive tourist drawcard.

Wellington, on the other hand, has only its supposed "cultural" aspects to tout, which essentially comprise of a few distinctly upper middle class features such as museums and art galleries and a few theatres (all well funded by the govt too of course). Unfortunately, these things are nothing particularly special and can be found in greater abundance and quality in the much more exciting Melbourne.

Meanwhile, most corporate HQs have either moved to Auckland or Sydney over the past few years (eg. only one major bank's HQ remains - ANZ National), leaving just the government business to support long haul flights. Not really much of a money spinner huh?

So although Auckland is largely a disappointing city for foreign visitors, it and Christchurch will still be the only NZ cities seeing long haul flights. Wellington just wouldn't have the yields. Pipe dreams on Wellington's part there.
 
zonky
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:49 pm

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 3):
I am a believer in a new airport on a greenfield site in the Paraparaumu/Kapiti Coast area

Non-starter without a high speed rail link. Never going to happen.
 
777ER
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:30 pm

Aerokiwi

Wellington, on the other hand, has only its supposed "cultural" aspects to tout, which essentially comprise of a few distinctly upper middle class features such as museums and art galleries and a few theatres Wellington has more then a "few theatres", infact more then both Auckland and Christchurch. Also add to the "few", the very popular Lord of The Rings movie sets and Peter Jacksons movie making complex which is about 10 minutes from WLG which is proving very popular with overseas tourists.

So although Auckland is largely a disappointing city for foreign visitors, it and Christchurch will still be the only NZ cities seeing long haul flights. Well sorry, but with WCC (Wellington City Council and WRC (Wellington Regional Council) both saying that they are prepared to get the ball rolling in terms of helping foreign airlines set up flights, even once per week flights. In a few years I promise you will be proved wrong Aerokiwi. Obviously only WLG and both council's will know who they are talking to

Meanwhile, most corporate HQs have either moved to Auckland or Sydney over the past few years (eg. only one major bank's HQ remains - ANZ National), leaving just the government business to support long haul flights. Not really much of a money spinner huh? What has HQs got to do with WLG building a brand new International Terminal and expanding runway etc? Also what evidence have you got to back up your claims?

Virginflyer

An International airport idea in Paraparamu has been throwen onto the fire place and will never happen because close to half of the runway at the current airport there has been ripped up with the airport been rezoned and houses are being built there now. There is also basically no other location on the Kapiti Coast that can sustain an airport due to the Kapiti Coast having a massive building boom which started about 5-10 years ago. Kapiti will be close to its full capicity in about 10 years, with nearly all land already owned.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:15 pm

Mmmmm, interesting. I doubt we will see anything bigger that a 767 at WLG for a while though. Just my 2 cents.
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:21 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
close to half of the runway at the current airport there has been ripped up with the airport been rezoned and houses are being built there now. There is also basically no other location on the Kapiti Coast that can sustain an airport due to the Kapiti Coast having a massive building boom which started about 5-10 years ago. Kapiti will be close to its full capicity in about 10 years, with nearly all land already owned.

Ah well that I didn't know. That is quite a shame - a good opportunity wasted IMHO. I guess its another case of develop! develop! develop!, and then consider essential infrastructure after the fact. I guess thats the way a building boom goes...

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 4):
Wellington, on the other hand, has only its supposed "cultural" aspects to tout

Um, aren't you forgetting the scenic attractions around the place - Kapiti, Martinborough (and its associated wine region), etc. I think they would be quite capable of marketing themselves if there were direct international flights to Wellington. As well, for someone wanting to travel around the North Island (and there are plenty of people that do), Wellington would be just as sensible a place to start as Auckland. I think you are premature in writing off the tourist value of the place.

V/F
 
777ER
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:23 pm

I doubt we will see anything bigger that a 767 at WLG for a while though. WLG can currently handle B767 size aircraft. All this construction could take 2-3 years, 4 years at the most. The new terminal design will start on a clean piece of paper
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:26 pm

I realise WLG can take 767s as they used to do scheduled services. I'm just saying, it would be a little difficult to see a 340 or a T7 in WLG unless it was EK as I can't imagine too many airlines wanting to operate them into WLG at this stage.
But hey,. we'll have to find out!!!  Smile
 
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mariner
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:28 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 4):
So although Auckland is largely a disappointing city for foreign visitors,

Why or how is Auckland disappointing for foreign visitors?

I've just come back to NZ after leaving in 1972, and I found Auckland terrific It may not be Sydney, but where is?

If nothing else, lunch at the Hilton on Princes Wharf is as glamorous as it gets anywhere in the world, I promise you.

cheers

mariner
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:54 pm

Wellington Airport has some information and pictures on their website:

http://www.wellington-airport.co.nz/news/index.html

I must say it looks quite impressive. Perhaps Rongotai will win me over yet. Now if only they could sort out those end zones - nothing like rocks, roads, trolley-bus wires (at the north end at least) and then water to ruin your day if you overun the runway (something which is a possibility given Wellington's weather). Sadly I'm not really certain how this can practically be solved, short of undergrounding the roads, but even then you still have an elevated surface which would have to drop off somewhere...

V/F

[Edited 2005-08-04 13:59:42]
 
zonky
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:09 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 11):
Why or how is Auckland disappointing for foreign visitors?

It's become very decentralised and car dependent. Queen street and downtown is now a dive. I must admit being very disappointed myself there in Jan (first time by me in 20 years) and it was my wife's first visit. She was very underwhelmed.
 
Trolley Dolley
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:55 am

Ha ha ha!  laugh  Talk about grand plans WLG Airport Ltd! In their simulations of the interiors, look through the window and you see they have a NZ 747 parked outside. It will be good to upgrade the international terminal as the current one is like a rabbit warren.

The runway extensions are for safety, as mentioned on the above link. Its to sort out issues raised by VirginFlyer. WIAL also says that the 787 can operate long haul off the current runway too.

Hmm, is it just trying to put pressure on NZ to operate services as more pax=more revenue to help pay for the buildings? Didn't WIAL move from a weight based charge system to a pax number based charge system?
 
jafa39
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:24 am

One advantage of WLG international will be that tourists can visit the upper Sth and Lower/Middle Nth Islands with far more ease.

Flying into CCH or AKl means a pretty long drive (or having to do an internal flight and then book another Maui van), also, unless you have bags of time the journey tends to repeat in reverse as the routes around the East Coast of the Nth Island and West Coast of the Sth are long and slow (but bloody excellent trips though!).

So, I can see it would actually make sense, the other benefit to NZ is that it will allow development to lose its "Aucklandcentric" focus as at present there are huge disparities in the lifestyle and standards of living in NZ and remember 33% of Nzers are Jafa's!

My 2 cents worth but if you take the big picture and apply this move to the long-term future of Aotearoa it does start to look like a worthwhile option.
 
aerokiwi
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:52 am

As expected, my comments got up the nose of a Wellingtonian. Sensitive bunch down there (as usual).

Let me explain. Wellington is a pleasant enough place, but if you're counting on The Lord of the Rings as a major drawcard for long haul tourists, you're relying on a pretty flimsy foundation for long-term tourist potential. The thrill of LOTR will fade (already is?) as all these things do.

Meanwhile, you'll find the massive majority of long haul tourists are coming to New Zealand to see the WHOLE country, top to bottom. afterall, if you're coming all this way, you may as well see everything. This makes Auckland an attractive arrival point to start at the top of the north and finish in the south where they can fly out of CHC. Or vice versa of course.

But Wellington is in an inconvenient central location for that type of "whole-country" visit.

The importance of corporate HQs is that it's usually the top management persons who travel on business, thus providing airlines with the really good yields to justify such flights. Meanwhile, where HQs are, so too follow support industries, thus further increasing the market for business travel.

My evidence for this is the major move of the big banks from Wellington to Auckland over the past 10 years. Only ANZ-National are keeping their HQ in Wellington, a decision which caused a huge ruckus internally at the bank because the Australians rightly (in my opinion) figured that the HQ should be where the most important market is. The 'government business' argument is irrelevant because Westpac has that covered already. ANZ-National only stayed in Wellington to keep the National Bank CEO at the helm (he likes it there). This was widely reported in business publications like the NBR.

Wellington's pleasant, but nothing special on the international circuit. Especially with Melbourne so close. Same with Auckland and dowdy old Christchurch (also lovely but intensely dull).

Tourists don't come to NZ for the cities, which are largely forgettable. And I'm saying that as an Aucklander!

So no need to get all worked up about it. Long haul simply wont work from Wellington. Can you see airlines wanting to fly a single weekly service to a small, low-yielding destination where they have to pay for a 7 night break for their crew? I can't. (Just one of many considerations airlines have to take into account when deciding on such routes.)
 
RichardJF
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:36 am

From Asia most people want to come to New Zealand for a short amount of time would prefer to stay in one hotel and take day trips.

Tourists want to be able to say i've been to the South island which doesn't mean they want to be driven around the South Island going from Hotel to Hotel.

Increasingly the Jan-March cruise business makes much of the traditional ways of visiting New Zealand obsolete and airlines need to understand that. The demand from Asia for 4 days in New Zealand would be much greater than 10 days.

Wellington can look a million dollars on a travel brochure. The same can be said for Sydney (very complacent), San Francisco, Cape Town (too much security concerns), Rio (too far away from asia & far too much crime).

Auckland and Christchurch just don't have what it takes.

The size of Wellington is almost ideal for tourist groups, compact, flat easy to walk around.

Wellington hasn't got a lot of facilities that might of otherwise developed because it didn't have the Japanese/koreans/Chinese.

The top of Mt Victoria as an example is undeveloped an enclosed view 80 feet above the top of Northern lookout (probably no more than a $5m exercise) would be vastly superior to any other city view in New Zealand (Skytower included).

Most longhauls into New Zealand are low yielding tourist routes so the cost for Wellington of simply buying in long haul business isn't unrealistic.
The economics to the city of having 100,000 Japanese tourists flying direct to and basing themselves in Wellington for 4 days would be astromical, it would be worth thousands of jobs.

Remember Air Tahiti makes US$3.8m per year. Australian Makes just A$1.1m..!
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:20 pm

Quoting Trolley Dolley (Reply 14):
In their simulations of the interiors, look through the window and you see they have a NZ 747 parked outside.

Actually, judging by the shape of the winglets and the size compared to the Pacific Blue 737, I'd say its probably an NZ 787, with a badly rendered fin (not surprising, given the different fin designs that have done the rounds).

V/F
 
aerokiwi
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:18 pm

Sorry but that logic goes against everything being reported by Tourism NZ about long haul tourists spending longer amounts of time in NZ or trying to conjoin their trip with Australia. What evidence is there of Asian tourist demand for 4 day trips to NZ, 2 of which will be consumed by travelling/jetlag? That's just absurd.

You're just going to have to accept that for a variety of reasons, Wellington just isn't a long haul destination - geography being the main thing. Perhaps one day there will be one or two charter flights, but nothing more.

I think Infratil (or whoever it is that runs Wellington Airport) is just trying to disguise its neglect of the international terminal and the desperately needed lengthening of the runway (actually for safety reasons) as a business opportunity for the digestion of investors rather than just admitting facilities just aren't up to scratch. Sounds a lot better on the 6 o'clock news huh?
 
aerohottie
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runwa

Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:15 pm

Aerokiwi - its interesting that Aucklanders love Auckland and everybody else hates it.... many of the tourists that I have spoken to have said they would happily forgo Auckland and most of the North Island completely. These same tourists also often say the South Island, marlborough sounds and wellington are to best attractions(although they do seem to like Rotorua too). Just a personal observation, but it seems that North Americans seem to like the cosmopolitan feel of wellington, the beauty of the marlborough sounds and the amazing southern scenery. The feedback I have had from tourists and personal experience would suggest that most tourists and new immigrants go to Auckland because that is where they "have to" land. Remember CHC only has very limited asian services (SIN only, JP services are inbound only) and only a relatively new LAX flight. Other than these two, everyone except for Oz and PI tourists must fly into AKL. Not a very good first impression of a country which prides itself on beautiful scenery, coming into land over what looks like a giant sewage pond... NZ Pure, yeah right!!!
 
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NZ107
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:30 pm

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 12):
I must say it looks quite impressive. Perhaps Rongotai will win me over yet. Now if only they could sort out those end zones - nothing like rocks

Yes I do think they should

It's one thing they need to do..


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bob leask



The photographer has already stated it... Not SXM... But think about what could happen with Lyall Bay if they brought in sand like Mission Bay and those bays in Auckland... It might prove to be a little more popular when the Southerly isn't blowing! Those arriving from the South would get a good idea of what the rest of NZ is like if they did.

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 17):
Australian Makes just A$1.1m..!

Anyone thought about merging Jetstar (international services) with Australian?
 
NZ747
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:48 pm

I highly doubt WLG will get any long haul operations. You can't justify Wellingtons tourist facilities (LOTR stuff, theaters and shit like that) to say that could bring longhaul flights. Wellington is the kind of city, just like Christchurch and maybe Auckland, where you can do everything in one day. It is good for domestic and Australian tourists to go for the weekend.

On a side note to that, anyone seen that Wellington tourism ad, where that guy meets that girl in a cafe, they end up going out for dinner, then that night, they go back to his hotel for some action. The following morning, he puts his wedding ring back on, as not to let his 'side dish' know he is married to another woman and has a kid (from the photo he opens in his wallet). At the end it says 'have an affair with Wellington'. WTF is up with that?!?!

...Back to the debate. If Wellington can justify opening itself up as a major gateway to large tourist attractions within the lower north island (not many...if any..), and upper south island (a fair amount), then this could warrant the need for long haul flights to Wellington.

Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 18):
Actually, judging by the shape of the winglets and the size compared to the Pacific Blue 737, I'd say its probably an NZ 787, with a badly rendered fin (not surprising, given the different fin designs that have done the rounds).

Not that it really matters, but it is indeed an NZ 747.


Just my opinion...
NZ747
 
Mr AirNZ
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:49 pm

Aerokiwi, I for one think you have hit the nail on the head perfectly (I even hate Auckland). Infratil are now going to cost the travelling public money due to the flow on effects. Long hauls out of Wellington..... ooh sorry must dash the Easter bunny and Santa just arrived for dinner.
 
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VirginFlyer
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:52 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 21):
But think about what could happen with Lyall Bay if they brought in sand like Mission Bay and those bays in Auckland

I don't think that would work. The Cook Straight, where Lyall Bay is, is a pretty violent body of water. From memory, the sand had to be regularly brought into Mission Bay as it got washed away. I don't think it would last long in Lyall Bay at all... Still, from the sound of the press release, the southern RESA should take care of the rocks and the road at the Lyall Bay end, though there will still be the drop to the water to contend with. As for the Evans Bay end, well, a sudden drop off, a road, trolley bus wires, and water all in a short space is something which needs to be addressed. Given the geography and layout, I doubt they'd be able to extend the runway much into Evans Bay:


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View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Helmut Bierbaum



V/F
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:15 pm

I'm reading somewhere that Ralph Norris reckons WLG is crazy in expanding and it will be everybody else who will picking up the tab. And he is going to head to Commbank ... where they just jack up the price and expect everyone else to pay. Hmmmmmmm.

IMHO WLG won't need any international routes (apart from to Oz), and won't need to have more than a 767-size capacity.

Asian tourists do come to NZ for four days, but they're talking about 4 days in NZ itself, two nights in Auckland and 1 in Rotorua is usually the norm for Asian inbound operators there. In the South Island they usually stay for 5 days a quick lap of Christchurch, Fox Glacier, Queenstown, Milford Sound and Dunedin. Not nearly enough time to explore this beautiful country.

Tourism NZ is also promoting itself in Oz as an extended short-break destination where they're targetting 3-5 days stays. They're pointing out that the flight times to NZ from SYD / MEL / BNE are the same as if people are say, going from MEL to CNS and shorter than SYD to PER.

I think Auckland is pretty yucky, mainly because of its antiquated public transport system and traffic jams that are acceptable only if it was 10 times the size. It does however have beautiful harbours and lovely islands. Next time I visit the North Island I will pick up a car at AKL and drive straight out of the city. I've always thought NZ is wonderful if you don't go into Auckland!!!
 
aerokiwi
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:17 pm

Aerohottie: I think you'll find most Aucklanders have, at best, a grudging respect for the city that they fight with everyday. When you live like that, eventually you and your city earn a bit of respect for each other. Some days you get trodden on, some days you don't.

For example, in my opinion, thanks to the Waitaks and Auckland weather (cloud formations etc), I think you'd be hard pressed to find a city anywhere with such spectacular sunsets. Having spent time in many cities around the world on every continent, I think its a pretty fair call. And on a sunny summer's day Auckland can seem like the most fantastic place to be. But on other days the traffic sucks, the central city is grimy and uninspiring and the sad joke that is public transport just tops it off.

Wellingtonians, however, seem to have this amazing inferiority complex as illustrated by their ongoing efforts to promote the city to the rest of the country. I'm sorry but for a few hundred more I can go and have a hell of a lot more fun in Melbourne, which is a million times more exciting. At least it's open on Sundays, whereas Wellington City shuts down bar some expensive restaus and Te Papa.

So no, Aucklanders do not have this love of their city. Everyone else just sems to assume that.

And I work with tourists at a major Auckland attraction several days of the week and hear their stories of trips up Northland (Bay of Islands) and to the Gulf islands and the Coromandel, and how wonderful they were. All things that cannot be done when you're in Wellington. I'm sure the Wairarapa coastline is just lovely, but frankly, it has nothin on a trip up ninety mile beach or out into the Bay of Islands or the beaches of the Coromandel and their quirky locals.

For long haul travellers, Wellington works best as a stop off en route somewhere. It's very pleasant, but really, should open on Sundays if it wants to cater for the international market. You know, that whole 21st century thing...

Wise up to the Infratil PR spin. Cause that's all it is.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:53 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 1):

777's, now where talking, i'd say EK might be keen to operate a 772 there from somewhere

Probably a 777-200ER could manage a full passenger with baggage load from WLG-SIN west bound ; little or no available pay load for freight because of the additional fuel required for operating west bound. This is purely hypothetical of course ; I can't imagine any carrier who would want to do it.
Looking at the 787-8 brochure on Boeing's web site a pretty good load can be punched off a 7000ft. runway and carried quite a distance.
At least for the next 8 to 10 years it seems to me this whole exercise is to satisfy someones ego; probably the ongoing fighting with NZ has something to do with it. This is "hub busting" taken literally! Increasing the runway length to 7000ft makes sense; the terminal extensions do not. I am not in favour of Taj Mahal terminals; they are a poor use of capital and do no more than to increase the departure tax!.
In my view Queenstown has the most growth potential. Tourism wise you can do a lot from there. It takes a day on a bus to get to anything worthwhile from CHC.; I see CHC 's relevance to South Island tourism diminishing as time goes on. As a city it is "dullsville" with a capital "D".
 
Fly2CHC
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:25 am

Waste of money - as much of a waste of money as a second Auckland airport! Where is the demand? CHC is having a hard enough time trying to increase customer airlines and it is the gateway for the entire Sth Island! I could possibly see EK extend their B777 MEL service just to add another dot on their map. Pacific Island airlines are also a possibility, but they rarely operate anything bigger than a B738.
 
RichardJF
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:27 am

Kiwi's - Aucklands a big international city - WOW....!!
Asian Tourists landing in Auckland - not another international city (yawn).
 
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NZ107
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:15 am

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 27):
In my view Queenstown has the most growth potential.

Well, growth as in tourism, would make it one of the top. I thought that The Lakes District Council were planning building a long runway near Alexandra.. Rotorua Airport wants to expand also. I'd still expect people to go through AKL or CHC and keep expanding AKL. These new airports will take too long to build.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:10 am

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 29):
Well, growth as in tourism, would make it one of the top. I thought that The Lakes District Council were planning building a long runway near Alexandra.. Rotorua Airport wants to expand also. I'd still expect people to go through AKL or CHC and keep expanding AKL. These new airports will take too long to build

I don't buy the argument that it will take too long to build a new airport at Alexandra. All it takes is will and cutting through the B**L S**T that surrounds the Resource Consent process in N.Z.
What do the Rotorua politicians hope to achieve? The occasional A320 from Aus. and a $30 to $50 Departure tax?
I have found it very difficult to spend one useful day in Rotorua; I was there three months ago and it is not significantly better than when I first visited it 40 plus years ago. I can't see how it can qualify as a serious destination. In my view Hamilton has more to commend it as a "hub" although as the gaps in the Southern Motorway are filled in it has less going for it.
 
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:57 am

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 31):
I have found it very difficult to spend one useful day in Rotorua

I've been there a number of times, and been able to spend several useful days. Plenty of nature related actvities (bushwalking, kayaking, mountain biking - and rafting was not too far away from memory), as well as the usual tourist drawcards (Whakarewarewa, the Agrodome, Rainbow Springs, the Buried Village, Huka Falls, the Skyline gondola and luge, etc). There are more which I haven't mentioned - perhaps you should have a look at Rotorua's Website. Sure, I don't think it is going to get daily 747s, but I think you are wrong in writing the place off as a tourist destination in itself, especially for the short-stay market from Australia.

Anyway, this is supposed to be about Wellington Airport, lets keep this on topic. I don't think anyone is suggesting it will overtake Auckland as the major gateway, but it is not unreasonable to expect a small number of long-haul services if the airport was able to handle them. If Adelaide can manage it, I am sure Wellington can.

Furthermore, if we ignore the long-haul issue for the moment, let's not lose sight of the fact that a) the international wing as it stands is getting old, and could do with some improvement, and b) the runway desperately needs attention, if for nothing else other than safety. Whether they get the long haul flights or not seems pretty irrelevant to me in terms of whether these works are justified or not.

V/F
 
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:59 pm

a) the international wing as it stands is getting old, and could do with some improvement Then WLG might as well re-build the domestic part also since the new domestic area was built and opened at the same time.

Lets just ignore the fact that I'm from Wellington for a few minutes. If you were a tourist from Asia etc and you wanted to go to the lower north island from say, Taupo and the Hawkes Bay. Would you prefer to fly to either AKL or CHC then catch another flight or hire a rentel car/catch the intercity/newmans bus etc and increase the costs of your holiday, or would you prefer a direct flight to an airport that is closer to the area that you want to go to, in this case WLG and be able to spend more money on your holiday instead of more money on your travel expenses? WLG is in the middle of New Zealand so it makes sense.
 
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:23 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 33):
a) the international wing as it stands is getting old, and could do with some improvement Then WLG might as well re-build the domestic part also since the new domestic area was built and opened at the same time.


I am under the impression the international terminal was built in the 70s or 80s, and then integrated into the present main terminal when that opened in 1999. While it was face-lifted in 1999, it is still the same old building, and from what I saw of it while arriving there last year, could do with improvement.


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V/F
 
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:25 pm

V/F

The International terminal is the same design etc as the one in the 70s, 80s etc. When the new domestic was built, the International part was rebuilt exactly to the same plans in stages to minimise disruption to International flights.
 
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:52 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 33):
Would you prefer to fly to either AKL or CHC then catch another flight or hire a rentel car/catch the intercity/newmans bus etc and increase the costs of your holiday, or would you prefer a direct flight to an airport that is closer to the area that you want to go to, in this case WLG and be able to spend more money on your holiday instead of more money on your travel expenses? WLG is in the middle of New Zealand so it makes sense.

For those on extremely tight budgets: Auckland-Wellington overnight on the Intercity bus - $10... If there's only one passenger, I wonder if they add a fuel surchage...

ROT is only about 3 hours away from AKL, but then again it's a 30-40 min flight on Air NZ. Wait till these prices come down. If they lengthen the runway, it might provide space for Jetstar and/or Pacific Blue to enter, thus plummeting the price of domestic tickets. The only jets serving ROT are from CHC.

WLG looks great... First time I went there with the new terminal was in 2001. Hope AKL domestic would look like that one day.
 
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:56 pm

ROT is only about 3 hours away from AKL, but then again it's a 30-40 min flight on Air NZ. Wait till these prices come down. If they lengthen the runway, it might provide space for Jetstar and/or Pacific Blue to enter, thus plummeting the price of domestic tickets. The only jets serving ROT are from CHC. Having a B737 or an A320 operating to ROT from AKL and maybe WLG would be pointless cause it would cost way more to operate compared to a turbo-prop. Prices might come down $5 with a jet but prices would come down more with a larger turbo-prop like a Dash 8 or ATR
 
Trolley Dolley
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:38 am

Correction to the above posts, the international terminal has been greatly modified since 1999. The current international terminal is actually the old Ansett Terminal with the gates on the northern side of the terminal that were formerly the Ansett and International gates being used primarily. The gates on the south side (where the QF 767 is parked in 34) have been modified to become part of domestic terminal and are used by QF. However, the gates on this wing can be closed off to the domestic terminal to accept international flights. I've expereinced that quite a few times recently becuase ther are quite a few international flights.

The 1999 modifications included new positions for baggage claim, customs, lounges etc. It's a lot nicer terminal, but still a bit of a rabbit warren to find your way around.

I wonder if there is going to be a new international check-in area? The current terminal gets very crowded and it could be more efficient to move the check-in to a dedicated area to free up space for domestic check-in.
 
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:27 pm

The 1999 modifications included new positions for baggage claim, customs, lounges etc. It's a lot nicer terminal, but still a bit of a rabbit warren to find your way around. When I was working in the International parts of the terminal I find it very easy to work my way around. That was last year when WIAL management employeed about 15 students, including me to do survey work on passengers and to count passengers at different areas of the terminal, like MAF, customs, check-in, depatures etc. This survey work was to help WIAL decide what to do for the new International Terminal.

I wonder if there is going to be a new international check-in area? A dedicated International check-in area was being considered, for the northern side on the check-in area, currently where QF, QO (Origin Pacific) and DJ have their check-ins. As a result of a dedicated international check-in, the check-in area would have to be added onto. When the International check-ins are not being used then domestic would use them, but only when required
 
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:34 pm

Just to let the WLG-ites know, but Air NZ are NOT planning any long haul flights from WLG now or in the medium to long term. I can say that without a doubt. WLG becoming another AKL, or CHC for that matter, is a dream, and will NEVER be a reality. Sorry to burst anyones bubble.

NZ1
 
RichardJF
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:49 am

Because of the way Asian tourists visit, very short stay, focused/staying in larger hotels/travelling in groups it is highly attractive for Wellington to target. How many airlines in Asia are buying the 787. A lot!

What is the reality of the Asian short stay tourist.
1. Check into the hotel
2. Explore the city (ie walk around the place for a couple of hours)
3. Short bus tours around the city
All low tech stuff.
Auckland's CBD is oriented away from the harbour (the Waitemata just isn't that interesting) and Queen street is in a gully. The centre of Auckland will never be appealing no matter what you do.



versus



Infratil can go to say for example Korean with complete holiday packages based around staying in Wellington and flying in and out of Wellington airport to Nelson, Marlborough and so on and get the flights underwritten by the council.
Half of the rates are paid for by CBD building owners.
What do you get when you get ANA/Korean/China Southern 787
Marriott, Hilton, Sheraton
Louis Vuitton, Prada.

Where abouts? Wellington's CBD.


Air New Zealand - Auckland/Rotorua/Christchurch/South Island Bus tour

......Thanks for the memories
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:15 am

Sorry RichardJF, but what on earth are you talking about?

Not that i've done any study on it but I always thought the average stay for long haul Tourists in NZ was like 2-3 weeks not 2-3 days.
 
aerokiwi
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:16 am

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. All these hypothetical tourists that apparently exist and are busting to come to NZ for 4 days of buying sheep skins. Prada and Louis Vuitton can be bought anywhere in the world and are hardly anything to crow about.

No one is denying Wellington has its plus points. Just not enough to justify any airline offering a scheduled long haul service eg. unique qualities not found in places closer to these far off tourists' home country, relaistic opening hours and so on. Stop trying to compare it to Auckland in desirability because that remains entirely subjective and almost beside the point. Yes it's compact, which is unique for New Zealand but not the rest of the world - hardly a major drawcard.

Please see this for the PR spin that this is. My partner, who works at a major bank's share trading division, confirmed that investors saw right through this little piece of PR for what it really is - a positive spin on needed investment in infrastructural upgrades. The news networks fell for it. As enthusiasts with more knowledge of the industry, we should not.
 
RichardJF
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:49 pm

Personally I think Auckland's great. It is much less parochial than the rest of the country including Wellington. New Zealand like Norway just isn't that much of a must see.

2-3 weeks in New Zealand....maybe for Germans.
 
777ER
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:00 pm

Read an interesting article in my local paper yesterday about WLGs airport extension. The final sentence says " Confirmed Boeing 787 services into Wellington will begin in 2008.

Which airlines will receive B787s in 2008, apart from ANA? NZ receives its first B787 (ZK-NZA) in 2010.
 
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:18 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 45):
Which airlines will receive B787s in 2008, apart from ANA?

Did some Chinese airline buy some? I thought China Southern did.. Unless that was only 2 A380's. They were released pretty close together
 
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:31 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 46):
Did some Chinese airline buy some?

yes. Air China, China Eastern Airlines, China Southern Airlines, Hainan Airlines, Shanghai Airlines and Xiamen Airlines. Deliverys start in 2008 also.
 
RichardJF
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:20 am

Auckland can considered an excellent place to live. Whangaparoa, Hauraki gulf etc but it's hopeless for somebody that comes for 1-2 days and stays in a CBD hotel with no car. Wellington has the complete opposite situation a 1 mile radius from the Intercontinental is a ideal for a tourist staying 1-2 days and no car. It's going to be a much better gateway for tourists from Asia and the US.
 
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RE: WLG - New International Terminal, Extend Runway

Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:08 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 48):
Wellington has the complete opposite situation a 1 mile radius from the Intercontinental is a ideal for a tourist staying 1-2 days and no car.

Better still. A hotel is only 300 metres away from WLG infact. I use to past it every college day intil the end of last year

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