Delta will be substituting the MD-88 for the current 737-300's begininng Nov. 1
a link below
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/11/business/11air.html?oref=login
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Surprised that DL would go for the MD-88 as a replacement for the 733s, as this essentially creates a new sub-fleet at DL. Using the former DLS 738s, or perhaps the already small fleet of MD-90s would probably have made more sense.

LGA will see lots of MD-80's each day. Two Delta Shuttles MD-80's departing and arriving per HOUR, plus all MD-80's of American Airlines arriving and departing each day (at least one AA S80 per hour), plus MD-80's flying for Delta Mainline although not that many out of LGA, it seems like the MD-80 will be the aircraft seen the most at LGA like the 727 was for many years until the mid 90's. Next to the MD-80 will be the A319/320 aircraft seen the most at LGA, if US Airways Shuttle continues to fly the Airbus.
Does that mean Delta totally phases out the 737-300 aircraft? Of those will be transfered back to the mainline fleet?

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium

Wow!

didn't see that coming, I too would have expected that DL would have gone back to the 738 ops for shuttle. Some of the 738s are actually in an all Y config which would have been easier for them...

The MD-80 as far as I know isn't a well liked aircraft by the frequent traveler. No IFE, and they are increasing in age... I would agree with DAL767400ER I too would have expected to see the few MD-90s placed on the routes

but then again who am i to argue? someone else is getting paid ooddles to figure all these things out ...

This won't create a new subfleet any more than the 738s on the shuttle were a subfleet. The seating may be different, but as far as maintenance and crews are concerned, same airplane. Non issue.

Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 3): The MD-80 as far as I know isn't a well liked aircraft by the frequent traveler. No IFE, and they are increasing in age

Since shuttle flights are relatively short, the lack of IFE is less important. As for age, the only real problem here is availability of a/c, which increases and then decreases with age. IF DL uses a/c with the new interiors (especially those that are completed and not just seat covers). The inside of the aircraft looks substantially newer and the LED lights are quite nice.

Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 3): The MD-80 as far as I know isn't a well liked aircraft by the frequent traveler

I'd have to disagree here. I find the MD-80 a much quieter aircraft.......as long as you're not sitting in the back few rows.

I would guess the fuel costs are less on the MD-88 than the 733 for LGA-BOS, LGA-DCA, and LGA-PHL. Maybe this is the main driver of the decision.

I think the business traveler will like the MD-88's better as there is less chance of a middle seat.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 2): Does that mean Delta totally phases out the 737-300 aircraft?

Correct, DL is phasing out all of their 733s along with the 732s and 762s within the next 2 years.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 2): Of those will be transfered back to the mainline fleet?

Most likely. The reasoning behind DL pulling the 733s from the Shuttle is that since you obviously cannot retire all 733s at the same time, DL would be forced to have a mixed fleet on the shuttle for several months. But now, they can replace the 733s with the MD-88s within a short time period, and the 733s can be regularly pulled from mainline flying.

I wonder if this move could be in advance of jetBlue beginning service with their 190's on the JFK-BOS/IAD routes? Delta would be able to lower fares and compete better with more seats on those routes. Just a thought..

Quoting Jlp12345 (Reply 9): I wonder if this move could be in advance of jetBlue beginning service with their 190's on the JFK-BOS/IAD routes?

Not really, considering that JFK is too far away for most busines travellers compared to LGA, and same for IAD vs DCA. And as long as JB doesn't get enough slots at LGA or DCA, that won't change.

The MD-88 is a good choice of aircraft for DL on the Shuttle. According to the press release on Delta.com, the MD-88's will allow rear of plane exit for passengers, helping those in back to get to ground transportation faster. This is a plus for business persons who find themselves in the back of the plane waiting for everyone else to clear the jetway. If Delta had changed to the MD-90, it would have taken too many aircraft out of the small 15 aircraft fleet. Using 9 aircraft for the shuttle would have left only 6 for mainline service.

Shuttle passengers should also be happy with fewer middle seats than there are on the 733's or even the 738's.

Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 5): Since shuttle flights are relatively short, the lack of IFE is less important. As for age, the only real problem here is availability of a/c, which increases and then decreases with age. IF DL uses a/c with the new interiors (especially those that are completed and not just seat covers). The inside of the aircraft looks substantially newer and the LED lights are quite nice

The only real difference btw the full mod and the partial interior mod is the side wall, ceiling and overhead bins get remove and repainted in the full mod. The passenger service units also get reworked. On both mods the seats get removed and are sent to the manufacturer for a overhaul. So even in the partial mod the seats get more than just new covers.

I think that aritcle is mistaken. I think they are talking about the MD-90's...read this again "The MD-88 planes have been in use on routes from Delta's hub in Salt Lake City and its former hub in Dallas. Delta dismantled its Dallas hub this year." It was the -90's that were mainly in SLC and DFW, the 88's are used all over DL's system. It would make more sense to use the -90's anyway since just about all of them could be dedicated to the shuttle. I could be wrong, but I think it might be the -90's.

Not a mistake...

Press Release Source: Delta Air Lines


Delta Shuttle Customers Gain More Seat Availability with Introduction of MD-88 Aircraft on Popular Boston-New York-Washington Routes

Thursday August 11, 9:00 am ET

Delta Shuttle will offer more seats in Northeast air market than any other shuttle product

ATLANTA, Aug. 11 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL - News) will offer customers flying its popular Delta Shuttle between New York LaGuardia, Boston Logan International, and Washington Reagan National airports more seats than any other shuttle product in the Northeast with the introduction of the MD-88 aircraft beginning Nov. 1, 2005. Nine MD-88 aircraft will be configured into spacious, one-class cabins with 134 seats, compared with the current 120 seats flown with Boeing 737-300G aircraft.
"Delta Shuttle customers have asked for more availability on this highly popular, hourly route and we're delivering it, along with our new comfortable cabin interiors," said Paul Matsen, Delta's Chief Marketing Officer.

Delta Shuttle MD-88s will be reconfigured with Delta's new cabin interior design currently flying on Delta's mainline aircraft and featuring brighter interiors and new, stylish leather seats.

"As part of our airline's ongoing transformation, we are committed to improving customers' overall travel experience, including service provided by the Delta Shuttle, a long-time transportation staple for Northeast business and leisure customers," said Matsen. "The Shuttle also plays an important strategic role for Delta, allowing us to compete aggressively and effectively in the Northeast marketplace."


Delta Shuttle customers enjoy convenient services, including:

* 62 total flights from early morning to late evening on non-holiday
weekdays;
* rear-aircraft deplaning for quick access to ground transportation;
* open seating;
* complimentary on-board snacks, wine and beer;
* complimentary newspapers and magazines.

Delta Air Lines is the world's second-largest airline in terms of passengers carried and the leading U.S. carrier across the Atlantic, offering daily flights to 487 destinations in 88 countries on Delta, Song, Delta Shuttle, the Delta Connection carriers and its worldwide partners. Delta's marketing alliances allow customers to earn and redeem frequent flier miles on more than 14,000 flights offered by SkyTeam and other partners. Delta is a founding member of SkyTeam, a global airline alliance that provides customers with extensive worldwide destinations, flights and services. Customers can check in for flights, print boarding passes and check flight status at delta.com.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Delta Air Lines

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 14): I think that aritcle is mistaken. I think they are talking about the MD-90's...read this again "The MD-88 planes have been in use on routes from Delta's hub in Salt Lake City and its former hub in Dallas. Delta dismantled its Dallas hub this year." It was the -90's that were mainly in SLC and DFW, the 88's are used all over DL's system. It would make more sense to use the -90's anyway since just about all of them could be dedicated to the shuttle. I could be wrong, but I think it might be the -90's.

You can't ever believe everything the press says, but if you read the press release from DL, on Delta.com, you will see for sure that it is the MD-88's that are going to the shuttle. Nine of them to be exact.

As for me, I am going to miss those 733's. Are the flights currently going "that" full that they need to upgrade their equip? I understand the need to phase out the old 73's but why the "Mad Dog". Anyway being a huge DL fan I will always be behind them every step of the way.

Looks like DL sees more demand for its shuttle service and adds more capacity. But I read before the CO's shuttle service used to use MD-80, but the long fuselage meant it took too long for the passengers to get on and off the plane, and consequently more turn around time. Wonder how DL is going to deal with it.

Also, anyone remember how many seats were on DL's 727 shuttle?

Quoting JZ (Reply 18): Wonder how DL is going to deal with it.

As the article says, pax will be deplaning via the rear door as well, not only the one up front.

Quoting JZ (Reply 18): Also, anyone remember how many seats were on DL's 727 shuttle?

That should have been 156.

I suspect that the additional couple of seats really isn't the issue; it's an excuse. The -800s were too big for the job, and too expensive to run, so they were pulled in favor of the smaller 737s. I suspect that the MDs are just plain more efficient than either aircraft on these short-stage runs, and the operational efficiencies can't be ignored at this point.

What I AM curious about is whether the Shuttle still runs on a different certificate than Mainline. If so, then all those pilots will need to be retrained to fly the Mad Dog. That could be very expensive, raising the question as to what's really up here.

Of course, I was a great fan of the New York Air shuttle, which used DC9s. If only DL would paint these aircraft red, put the f/as in clingy red turtlenecks, and paint an apple on the tail, we'd be all set. Oh, yeah, and toss everyone a bag with a bagel and cream cheese in it, and blast through the cabin with the drink cart, giving everyone double cocktails (i.e. whatever you order, they give you two). Aaaaaah. That was a great service.

--Bill

Quoting JZ (Reply 18): But I read before the CO's shuttle service used to use MD-80, but the long fuselage meant it took too long for the passengers to get on and off the plane, and consequently more turn around time. Wonder how DL is going to deal with it.

Don't think it's that big of an issue as you have to figure there is one less person per row compared to the 737/A32X a/c.
dg

Quoting American 767 (Reply 2): Next to the MD-80 will be the A319/320 aircraft seen the most at LGA, if US Airways Shuttle continues to fly the Airbus.

US hasn't operated the A320 on the Shuttle in a long time, about since when DL pulled the B737-800. US operates all A319s now on LGA-DCA, LGA-BOS, BOS-DCA.

Quoting Pbiflyer (Reply 12): According to the press release on Delta.com, the MD-88's will allow rear of plane exit for passengers, helping those in back to get to ground transportation faster.

They didn't already do that? US lets people deplane from the back of the A319 for Shuttle flights into BOS and LGA.

If you read the press release, it says they are replacing the 737-300G aircraft, which are glass cockpit Germanair aircraft that Delta leased in 1999 or 2000 at high rates when they were short of mainline aircraft. These planes were parked after 9/11 and will be returned to the lessors, either because their leases are expiring or pursuant to 11 USC 347, the latter being the Bankruptcy Code Section that allows a petitioner to reject leases and executory contracts. The MD-88's hold more people and probably cost about the same to operate, and Delta has plenty of them. The 737-347's acquired in the Western merger, are not being replaced, although they probably will be grounded too. Prior to this, the reasons given for not using MD aircraft on the shuttle was their lack of a rear side cabin door for deplaning, and the length of the cabin since they only seat five across rather than six.

What i find interesting, is that I noticed that DL seemed to slow down or stop on the Interior Cabin ehnancements on the MD88. They were popping up all over the place in late 04 - early 05, but ive noticed lately ive been on just as many new interior a/c now as I was before. Im guessing that they were looking at this for a few months now and awaiting the cabin enhancements and will do these when they make it the one class interior....just a theory

Makes sense - Delta has a small fleet of 737-300s which are divided into two subfleets, the 733 with a traditional cockpit which were the ex-Western aircraft (some of which are older than the the ex-Western 732s by the way) and the 733 with the glass cockpit (called the 73G at Delta - an internal code and not the 737-700) which were previously flown by Germania and maybe a few from some other carriers. Its likely that the entire 733 fleet is scheduled for retirement in the near future, and if Delta does pay a visit to bankruptcy court as is expected by some, the leases on the the 737-300s with the glass cockpit will be the first to be rejected as they are expensive. As mentoned above, the ex-Germania aircraft were acquired when DL was desperately short on aircraft during the 1990s and the lease rates are high.

Its seems as if DL will be phasing out the 732 and 733 fleet, along with the 762s in the near-term future........a few months ago, DL said that 4 types would leave their fleet so I guess we now know for sure that its the MD11 (already gone and not coming back), the 762 (still with DL but already sold for cargo conversion), the 732 (being phased out now, these planes will be parked and are not likely to return to the air) and the 733 (the glass cockpit versions are likely to find new homes, but its will be interesting to see if anyone has any interest in the early build ex-WA airplanes with the mechanical cockpit.) The wild-card is DL's small fleet of MD90s: I guess that they will remain with DL as I think that DL owns these aircraft and second hand market for the MD90 is zero. DL ends up with a streamlined and rather modern mainline fleet: MD88/90, 738, 757, 763/763ER and 772ER.

The MD80 will be fine for the Shuttle operations - the 738s once used were probably too much aircraft for these short routes and can be used more effectively elsewhere in the DL system. DL may actually have a marketing advantage by using the MD80s on the SHUTTLE - they can promote the comfort of 2 + 3 seating and the smaller probability of getting stuck in a middle seat.

I wish DL luck.

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 23): These planes were parked after 9/11 and will be returned to the lessors, either because their leases are expiring or pursuant to 11 USC 347, the latter being the Bankruptcy Code Section that allows a petitioner to reject leases and executory contracts.

I believe Section 365 is the relevant section.

Quoting BUFjets (Reply 7): I would guess the fuel costs are less on the MD-88 than the 733 for LGA-BOS, LGA-DCA, and LGA-PHL. M

Most certainly not. The 733 is a much more fuel efficient aircraft.

I would not be surprised if this causes DL to lose their earliest departure. When they retired the 727, they were allowed an earlier departure due to the very low noise budget of the 738.

N

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 27): I would not be surprised if this causes DL to lose their earliest departure. When they retired the 727, they were allowed an earlier departure due to the very low noise budget of the 738

But DL has not been operating the 738 on the Shuttle for some time now - did the 733 qualify for the low noise early departure slot?

DL has been allowing rear-door exit via stairs on the Shuttle on the 733's when I've flown in recently. In fact it is better to exit the rear since you go directly into baggage claim and into the taxi stand in 2 minutes in both BOS and LGA. Don't know about DCA. If you leave through the front door you still have to navigate the terminal and then go down to baggage. The only time they didn't allow it was during bad weather.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 20): What I AM curious about is whether the Shuttle still runs on a different certificate than Mainline. If so, then all those pilots will need to be retrained to fly the Mad Dog. That could be very expensive, raising the question as to what's really up here.

The Shuttle is not a seperate certificate. Once the 88s are on the Shuttle it will be flown by the 88 pilots who are already based in NYC.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 28): But DL has not been operating the 738 on the Shuttle for some time now - did the 733 qualify for the low noise early departure slot?

Sure... I think they cheated a bit on that, but the 733 is certainly a significant amount quieter than a 727.

N

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 27): I would not be surprised if this causes DL to lose their earliest departure. When they retired the 727, they were allowed an earlier departure due to the very low noise budget of the 738.

I believe the earlier departure has an exemption, regardless of the aircraft type...

Quoting Airzim (Reply 29): DL has been allowing rear-door exit via stairs on the Shuttle on the 733's when I've flown in recently. In fact it is better to exit the rear since you go directly into baggage claim and into the taxi stand in 2 minutes in both BOS and LGA. Don't know about DCA. If you leave through the front door you still have to navigate the terminal and then go down to baggage. The only time they didn't allow it was during bad weather.

DCA isnt as user friendly if you go out the back. You still have to hike over to, basically, the America West gate, then up a flight of stairs and into the main terminal right at the America West gate. Honestly, I think it is 6 of one or half dozen or another in DCA.

Good choice DL we are tired of those noisy MD's. I wonder if AA will do the same.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 25): DL ends up with a streamlined and rather modern mainline fleet: MD88/90, 738, 757, 763/763ER and 772ER.

I'm sure you meant to add the 764/ER into that mix.

-N243NW 

Quoting Omoo (Reply 34): Good choice DL we are tired of those noisy MD's. I wonder if AA will do the same.

Huh? They aren't going anywhere. That's the point of the thread.

More info on this, the MD-88's will be in an all 2-2 config.

Quoting A330323X (Reply 22): US hasn't operated the A320 on the Shuttle in a long time, about since when DL pulled the B737-800. US operates all A319s now on LGA-DCA, LGA-BOS, BOS-DCA.

How long has US used 319s on the BOS-DCA run? Every time I've flown the US Shuttle it was a 733 on that route, granted its been about a year since I last flew on it.

Quoting Navairjax (Reply 38): How long has US used 319s on the BOS-DCA run?

They've been all A319s since February.

Also, they had been A319s before summer 2003.

Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 5): Since shuttle flights are relatively short, the lack of IFE is less important. As for age, the only real problem here is availability of a/c, which increases and then decreases with age. IF DL uses a/c with the new interiors (especially those that are completed and not just seat covers). The inside of the aircraft looks substantially newer and the LED lights are quite nice.

While IFE isn't important, other "newer" ammenities are, like power ports which I use all the time on the US shuttle. The flight time may actually be only 35 mins., but on average you spend well over an hour, two often during congested times, on the plane when you factor in waiting to take off, other ground delays, holding patterns etc...

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 27): I would not be surprised if this causes DL to lose their earliest departure. When they retired the 727, they were allowed an earlier departure due to the very low noise budget of the 738.

DL has an exemption on the 0630 time as long as it is operated by a 733, 738, 757, M88, M90 or CRJ. The exemption does come with a weight restriction.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 1): Using the former DLS 738s, or perhaps the already small fleet of MD-90s would probably have made more sense.

DL's Shuttle operation is 9 planes. The M90 is a fleet of 16. It wouldn't make sense to divide it like that and have a fleet of 7 planes being SLC based and another fleet of 9 being NYC/BOS based. One might suggest that DL retires the 7, but the fleet is still important as it does share the commonality with the M88. Pulling 7-9 M88's is less than 7% of the fleet.

The only thing I see that would come across as negative to the business traveler is the back mini-cabin. They might only be 2 rows back there, but it is loud. Also I haven't heard if dual deplaning will be done. I really can't picture an A-type traveler in a business suit using the aft stairs again, but hey it was done on the 727 and it might as well be done on the M88. The convenience of two doors with air stairs was much more appealing.

US operates all A319s now on LGA-DCA, LGA-BOS, BOS-DCA.

They operate 737s on the weekends at certain times.

They didn't already do that? US lets people deplane from the back of the A319 for Shuttle flights into BOS and LGA.

I've only seen the rear deplaning at BOS for US.

More info on this, the MD-88's will be in an all 2-2 config.

Source?

As for the Delta Shuttle, any word on whether they are happy with their decision to end the "Guaranteed seat" rule? According to the article when they ended it, on average they had to make 2 special flights a day. They must be doing very well on the Shuttle routes to add capacity.

The extra sections will be operated by RJs believe it or not. No longer will mainline aircraft be used.

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 44): The extra sections will be operated by RJs believe it or not. No longer will mainline aircraft be used.

Better than wasting a 134-seat plane for some 1-3 pax   . Hey, I think I just got an idea where DL could use some of "their" FRJs  . Yeah, I know, no pilots certified to fly them and other hurdles, but it's just an idea.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 43): More info on this, the MD-88's will be in an all 2-2 config. Source?

As a frequent Shuttle customer (I'm on it at least 6 times a week) they invited me to participate in a survey to see how they can improve service. They also invited some folks out to the Marine Air Terminal for a roundtable about the Shuttle. One of the things they discussed were the transition to the MD-88's, and how they will be in a 2-2 configuration which will provide for more space and eliminate the middle seat. I was on the Shuttle last night and asked one of the f/a's what she though about the change to the MD-88, and we were talking about it, and she also said she though the 2-2 would be nice.

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 37): More info on this, the MD-88's will be in an all 2-2 config.

Incorrect. They will be all one class, still in the 2-3 seating. The seat pitch will be increased over the standard coach class seating, but it will not be 2-2.

According to the Times:

"The biggest difference will be in the number of seats. Eventually, the MD-88's will hold 134 passengers, compared with 120 for the Boeing 737's.

Unlike the Boeing planes, the MD-88's will have a first-class section, at least for the first few months they serve as shuttle planes. Ms. Kelly said Delta planned to replace the roomier seats with standard coach seats within six to nine months after the planes go into service.

Once that happens, the shuttle will have 29 rows of seats, compared with 20 rows of seats on the Boeing jets, Ms. Kelly said. "

29*4=115 29*5=145. Obviously, something's not right about these numbers. But if they want MORE seats, they aren't going to 2*2.

Best,

Bill

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 44): The extra sections will be operated by RJs believe it or not. No longer will mainline aircraft be used.

Doesn't that make sense? They will roll and extra section for a very small number of pax. It makes much more sense to fly an RJ to carry those 5 extra pax than to fly an MD-88.