Well, if your memory is long enough you might recall that Air India (another ex-pink bit of the globe)originally selected the RB211 for their 744s. But then there were allegations of corruption (gasp!) and the order was switched to PW
Not the least favourite engine when they chose it. In fact, since the BA
order went in so early, it's hardly meaningful to talk of market success and popularity at that stage. BA
were the fourth airline to order the 777 and the first to order the GE90. Both ANA and Thai ordered their planes before BA but selected engines after BA
had gone for GE
. Indeed, ANA was leaning towards the Trent but took fright when BA
instead and then jumped into the arms of PW
. Famously, ANA said at the time that they didn't want to be left operating a "niche" engine (possibly thinking of RR
on the 747/767) but then watched the Trent become the most popular engine on the 777 line (and their PW4000 the least popular). Thai were then the first to choose the Trent in the aftermath of RR
losing both ANA and BA
made a really sweet offer) and were followed withing a year by Cathay and Emirates. GE
followed with China Southern, Lauda, Continental and ILFC.
There are various online sites (of varying accuracy and reliabilty) but they don't often list engine types. Have you heard of the JP
Airline Fleets book that comes out every May/June? It's now in its 39th edition and is very, very reliable. You'll find your engines (and much more) there. Go to www.buchairnet.com
and flash your credit card.
|Quoting Gasman (Reply 43):|
I'm not aware of it happening during the last 15 years, but certainly in days gone by this ex-colony of Britian has faced significant political pressure to buy British aviation products
Maybe, but then ANZ switched to GE
for their later 744s and chose RR
(I hope objectively!) for their 777s and 787s.
|Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 44):|
some people are already wondering why we ever bought RR in th first place
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in time Cathay wanted DC-10s with GE
CF6s. But the then British government (stand up, Michael Heseltine) leaned on them to by TriStars because they had RB211s. In the fullness of time, RR
747s followed and the RB211 ended up as the incumbent at CX
: TriStar, 747, A330, A340, 777... (Including the Trent as a development of the RB211.) And will we see the Trents 900 and 1000 continue the tradition???
Cargolux chose the CF6 for their first four 744s and took a fifth from Air France. But in the late '90s they switched to RR
(why?) and now have nine RB211 744s in service or on order. In fact, they're the only airline that has switched to RR away
. If there are problems now (which I'm in no position to comment on) it's at least relevant that they dumped GE
for some reason and have continued to choose RR
for each subsequent incremental order. (For what it's worth, their 15th 744 (due next year) will be GE
-powered but that's because it's a used plane (built in 1996) and ex-Asiana.)
|Quoting TEAtheB (Reply 55):|
(to be honest, still not sure if GE have caught up).
Yes, they have. GE
now have something like 44% of the total
777 market with RR
on something like 32% and 24% respectively. Take out the 2LR and 3ER and GE
are neck and neck.
|Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 67):|
probable solution maybe that RR should buy out PW to gain some good engineers and customers too.
I might point out that RR
have caught up with and then overtaken PW
in recent years entirely wth their own engineers. Moreover, PW
's woes and travails with the top-end PW4000 for the 777, the woefully unreliable PW2000 and the four-years late PW6000 don't speak too well of their "good engineers". In any case, RR
have been merrily gaining traditional PW
customers as it is. Who'd have predicted a decade ago that SIA would have just one PW
-powered model in service by 2005 (the A310s are all stored or leased out) but two RR
models with a third on order? Delta replaced PW
MD11s with RR
777s. Malaysia have traditionally preferred PW
but chose RR
for their 777s. On the A330, Egyptair, Air China, Air Canada and SAS have all been steady PW
customers but chose RR
instead. (For several years PW
were the lead engine on the A330 but are now falling far behind RR
.) Three operators switched from PW
on the 757 (UPS, Condor and ATA); none switched the other way. Northwest and ANA have long been in the PW
camp but will be flying their 787s with RR
. I don't think RR
need to buy PW
to "gain" their customers.
As for the origin of this thread, I have no idea if there are problems with RB211s on 747s but it seems pretty unlikely. It may have the smallest share of the 747 market but there are still 100+ RR
747s flying out there and they have been flying successfully for many years and millions of hours. Why should the whole fleet suddenly run into trouble? RR
are and ever more successful and canny company. It beggars belief that they can't organise the production of spare parts.
When the 767 and later the 744 were launched during the 1980s, RR
were still pretty bruised and had a derisory share of the civil market. (About 10-15%?) Unsurprisingly, the best they could do was to sign up some traditional customers. But throughout the 1980s and into the 1990s their reputation was restored bit by bit and not least through the RB211-535 which took the largest share of the 757 market and by far the majority of the customers. They were also handicapped by not being on Airbus. (Remember, at the turn of the millennium - just five years ago - there were only 50 Airbus widebodies flying with RR
engines; and, of course, there only ever had been those 50!) Until, say, a decade ago RR
really were (see above) a "niche" player.
In passing, I believe they were very reluctant to "do" the 767 since they knew their RB211-524 wasn't ideal for the platform but they were pressurised into it by BA
. Only BA
bought it. (China Yunnan - now part of China Eastern - took three in 1996/97 but only because they cancelled another RR
order [757s, I assume] and wanted to avoid cancellation penalties.) Qantas lease some BA
machines but they are the only three operators there are.
were never going to catch GE
on the 747 but it was a pretty effective stepping stone. It kept RR
in the game and provided a basis for the Trent family which has been hugely successful. More than 700 A340s, A330s, A380s, 777s and 787s have been ordered with Trents with several of these programmes still in their early days and with the A350 (probably) still to come. The Trent has outsold both GE
on the A330 (overturning the US companies' advantage of already being established on Airbus widebodies); it has outsold PW
on the 777 and (where there is competition) it is neck and neck with GE
; it is certainly holding its own on the A380 and, for what it's worth this early, it appears to be the engine of choice on the 787. The 777-300 first flew with Trents as did the A380 and as will the 787. By any measure, this is a successful programme.
So, from about 10% of the market a quarter of a century ago, RR
is now comfortably the second biggest player behind GE
. Arguably, RR
has done to PW
what Airbus did to McD.
Sorry to have stayed somewhat off topic but I often get the impression on A.Net that many posters are several years behind the times and still seem to think of RR
as a poor relative to the mighty GE
. Those days are over.