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CO767FA
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Do We Need A National Strike?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:56 pm

Industry workers are being squeezed and Executives are lining their pockets with millions. American's can't seem to understand the impact of the oil/fuel issue on the airline worker; I believe most only see the "good deal" they are getting on air-fares.

So, what would a nationwide wildcat strike do for the airline worker, if anything?
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:01 am

>> So, what would a nationwide wildcat strike do for the airline worker, if anything?

Get them unemployed, real fast.

And it isn't as if all airline workers are getting screwed against the wall. WN has not cut wages or demanded cuts to any degree that would lead to labor unrest like we see at NW. Heck, even the workers at DL, AA, CO, UA are still making fair wages. Some people just don't understand that they are part of the budget equation and are liable to have their sallaries go up and down with the marekt.
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toltommy
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:01 am

Go to France, get caught up in a wildcat strike, see how you like it. I've been there for wildcat strikes by museum workers, jetbridge drivers, caterers, and cab drivers. None of those strikes made me more sympathetic to their causes. It wouldn't work here, and it's just not a good idea to begin with.
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luv2fly
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting CO767FA (Thread starter):
So, what would a nationwide wildcat strike do for the airline worker, if anything?

Introduce them to unemployment! Wildcat strikes are illegal and thus they would all be fired and replaced. Sure the airline would suffer though they do have deeper pockets and would go on. The illegal strikers would now be saying do you want fries with that.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
avek00
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:18 am

A national strike would be a bad idea - it'd give airline mangers the political support they need to scuttle the NRLA and replace it with binding baseball-style arbitration (without rights to self-help) for all future airline labor disputes.
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slider
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:20 am

Quoting CO767FA (Thread starter):
Do We Need A National Strike?

I don't know, do YOU need your job?

Are you a lemming?
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:29 am

Quoting CO767FA (Thread starter):
Industry workers are being squeezed and Executives are lining their pockets with millions. American's can't seem to understand the impact of the oil/fuel issue on the airline worker; I believe most only see the "good deal" they are getting on air-fares.

So, what would a nationwide wildcat strike do for the airline worker, if anything?

Fuel is the cost of doing business for the airlines and has nothing to do with the general public.

As far as a good deal, it the choice of anybody to decide why they purchase a ticket, whether it has to do with price, schedule, aircraft, etc.
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acidradio
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:48 am

Quoting CO767FA (Thread starter):
Industry workers are being squeezed and Executives are lining their pockets with millions.

I don't mean to sound bitter, but industries change. Nothing lasts forever. If the current one isn't paying the bills, why not jump ship to one that does? I love the airlines to death, but they aren't paying my bills. Sadly, I'm putting serious thought to trying something else, at least for a little while. I'm not travelling a whole lot anymore and it's getting to the point that revenue tickets are so cheap, especially in light of what I could make at other jobs. Why not get out and find something else while the going is still good?

Executives will always make money. Management will always make money. There is nothing stopping you from earning a degree and climbing the ladder of management somewhere. You may not even need a degree to start in management. Even better, you could start your own business and become your own executive! It's a lot of work, but nothing worthwhile is free in this world.
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kc135topboom
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:48 am

I agree with DfwRevolution. The NW, US, and UA union/management situations are unique, in their own rights. They in no way reflect the airline industry as a whole.

Quoting CO767FA (Thread starter):
So, what would a nationwide wildcat strike do for the airline worker, if anything?



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 1):
Get them unemployed, real fast.

Many people will simply stop flying, that will hurt all airlines.

Quoting CO767FA (Thread starter):
Industry workers are being squeezed and Executives are lining their pockets with millions. American's can't seem to understand the impact of the oil/fuel issue on the airline worker;

That is three seperate issues.

The workers, at most airlines are not getting squeezed as much as many think. Yes, some airlines have asked for and received concessions from their labor unions. At AA, for example, some baggage workers were paid over $28 per hour. AA asked for a 15% wage concession, and got it. So, that same baggage worker is now all the way down at $25.30 per hour. That is $52,624 per year, without overtime. That is pretty good for a baggage worker, and more power to anyone that can get those wages. That is a lot different than someone who made $10 per hour before the 15% wage reduction. The airline industry is full of these stories.

Many Executives work under a contract (just like labor). Most have also given the same wage considerations as the rank and file workers. Some get bonuses because they may save their company millions of dollars, others may not have to given concessions because their company may fear them leaving for a more attractive offer.

The impact of rapidly riasing fuel prices on the average line employee is zero, unless the load factors drop. With lower load factors and higher fuel prices, yes, some employees will be laid off, to help the company survive. The price of fuel, what ever it is, is just like employee wages. It is the price of doing business. BTW, many airlines (DL, AA, CO, UA, US, NW, TZ, and others, including WN) have raised the airline ticket prices, by $10, several times this year (and last year), to adjust for the additional fuel prices.

Now, to the "meat" of your thread.

Come and live in the 21st Century. Unions have not been of any benifit for decades now. Unions even fight amoung themselves now (several smaller unions recently left the AFL-CIO). All a union does now is collect very high union dues for not much in return. If you are a union worker at airline XX, and get paid $25 per hour, because of the union's contract with XX, how much is your union dues? $100 per month? $150 per month? More? Less? Where does all that money go? You talk about XX Company Exceutives "lining their pockets with millions". What about your union? How much do you pay your union exceutives? How much does your union president make? Chances are, your very own union exceutives are also "lining their pockets with millions". But, the difference is, they are doing it with YOUR money, not your companie's money. Have they earned it?
 
CO767FA
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:55 am

Quoting Acidradio (Reply 7):
There is nothing stopping you from earning a degree and climbing the ladder of management somewhere.

No offense, but is this an assumption on your part (that airline employees lack a degree) or that someone wants to climb the ladder to management?

I'm just putting out a topic for discussion.
 
sw733
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:58 am

Is it me, or would a strike like that do horrible things to an economy that we're just starting to recover post 9/11...
 
NWAFA
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:59 am

CO767FA

SO many on here (majority that are NOT even in the business) think that we don't have a degree. The majority of us DO. (Loved my time at UCLA and Stamford!).

The ones that are not in the business can not and will not see things threw the eyes of those in the business (many of us for close to 30 years).
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CO767FA
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:02 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 5):
I don't know, do YOU need your job?

Are you a lemming?

Thanks for managements input.  bigmouth  I would anticipate that you are leading the way and we are just following!  cheeky 
 
ssides
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:02 am

Quoting CO767FA (Thread starter):
So, what would a nationwide wildcat strike do for the airline worker, if anything?

1) Jack shit.

2) Every airline would be forced to declare bankruptcy. By doing so, they could dump all labor contracts, and eliminate pensions for the retirees who have already worked so hard for the airlines.

3) Put most F/As and mechanics out of work.

4) Cause the flying public to lose confidence in the airline industry, leading them to other means of transportation/communication (videoconferencing, anyone?)

5) In short, kill the airline worker. The executives and management would walk away with their millions already intact. The workers would be stuck with no jobs, no wages, no health insurance, no retirement.

Think about it.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:06 am

My uncle would NEVER allow a nation-wide airline strike in the USA.
My uncle lives in Washington D.C.
My uncle is named Sam.
safe
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CO767FA
Topic Author
Posts: 388
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:08 am

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 11):
SO many on here (majority that are NOT even in the business) think that we don't have a degree. The majority of us DO. (Loved my time at UCLA and Stamford!).

The ones that are not in the business can not and will not see things threw the eyes of those in the business (many of us for close to 30 years).

Agreed!
 

[Edited 2005-08-20 18:10:09]
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:12 am

Quoting CO767FA (Thread starter):
Industry workers are being squeezed and Executives are lining their pockets with millions.

Most execs have taken bigger paycuts than rank and file, dude. So that's a joke right there. Yes, they get perks, but EVERY industry gives perks to execs. You sound like a union PR relase.

Quoting CO767FA (Thread starter):
So, what would a nationwide wildcat strike do for the airline worker, if anything?

Would drive more business away from the carriers, who would have to discount their fares in order to attract business, and in the face of skyrocketing fuel prices, would lead to further layoffs and paycuts within the industry. That's what it's doing.

You want to cut off your nose to spite your face, and it would cost thousands upon thousands of jobs. Why don't you get that?

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 9):
No offense, but is this an assumption on your part (that airline employees lack a degree) or that someone wants to climb the ladder to management?

Then if that's the case, I suggest you zip it, do your job, and be thankful you're making a living. If you don't want to be management, you don't really have the right to critisize whatthey make.

Makes me ashamed we work for the same company, dude. If you can't see what a disaster that would be-and since, as others point out, it would violate your contract.

And besides, if you're really CO f/a, you haven't given up cow cookies, since you guys are SO irreplacable, and above the rest of us, and haven't agreed to wage concessions, so what are you griping about in the first place. When you take a pay cut, then maybe you can bitch a little.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
CO767FA
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:33 am

Quoting Ssides (Reply 13):
1) Jack shit.

Interesting choice of words counselor  irked 

Quote:
2) Every airline would be forced to declare bankruptcy. By doing so, they could dump all labor contracts, and eliminate pensions for the retirees who have already worked so hard for the airlines.

Some are there or planning on bankruptcy soon (and not just legacy carriers).

Quote:
3) Put most F/As and mechanics out of work.

By agreeing to NW's contract offer, mechanics were looking at eliminating 50% of their rank and file anyway.

Quote:
4) Cause the flying public to lose confidence in the airline industry, leading them to other means of transportation/communication (videoconferencing, anyone?)

I 'd love to see you videoconference a family vacation to Rome or Honolulu or London.  biggrin  Most businesses discovered this fact during the days/months/years following 9/11.

Quote:
5) In short, kill the airline worker. The executives and management would walk away with their millions already intact. The workers would be stuck with no jobs, no wages, no health insurance, no retirement.

News bulletin: That is slowly happening  bomb  .

Quote:
Think about it.

 Yeah sure
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:43 am

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 17):
By agreeing to NW's contract offer, mechanics were looking at eliminating 50% of their rank and file anyway.

And doing the lunacy you propose, EVERY airline would have to follow suit. That'll teach 'em to screw with you....not.

Again, what you propose is 1. illegal, since you're under contract, and it could mean your termination immediately, and 2. would cause chaos that the industry cannot endure.

I'm presuming you haven't been around forever, or else these facts would be crystal clear to you.

Again, when you actually take a pay cut, which you haven't then you have the right to complain. Until then, do you job.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
CO767FA
Topic Author
Posts: 388
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:59 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
I'm presuming you haven't been around forever, or else these facts would be crystal clear to you.

How long have you been with CO? Me: over 21 w/CO.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
Again, when you actually take a pay cut, which you haven't then you have the right to complain. Until then, do you job.

I've taken paycuts, had pay frozen and checks that never showed (prior to direct deposit).
 
CO767FA
Topic Author
Posts: 388
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:04 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
And doing the lunacy you propose....

I didn't propose it, I just asked a question. Re-Read the topic heading.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 19):
How long have you been with CO? Me: over 21 w/CO.

18 myself. And yet you STILL don't understand this business? Fact is, right now, with fuel costs going the way they are, none of the majors are going to make money right now. And if costs keep rising, what is eventually going to take a hit-wages. It has to. No one likes it, but it is the one cost airlines can control. Again, if you've been around 21 years, and you haven't yet grasped that fact, you haven't been studying the industry.

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 19):
I've taken paycuts, had pay frozen and checks that never showed (prior to direct deposit).

Done the first two, never had the third happen. Again, if you've paid any attention to this industry, you'd realize it's one of the most volatile businesses out there. In the 90's we were swimming in cash. Now, barely anyone can make a buck. Soaring costs and low yields are killing the industry. And to just say "well management makes more money than I do" is a cop out.

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 20):
I didn't propose it, I just asked a question. Re-Read the topic heading.

I read it. It's obvious something you wouldn't mind see happening. You want to lose your job, then go organize such a strike. Don't let the door hit you on the way to the unemployment line. Someone else can do your job, and be thankful for it.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
air2gxs
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 1:29 pm

RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:18 am

A nationwide wildcat strike is contrary to the RLA. All participants should be fired immediately and the union officials that called the strike be held criminally and civilaly liable.

Let's see, I can't think of a faster way to break airline unions.

The market is currently flooded with qualified, laid-off, ex-employees of airlines. There is no labor shortage. Illegally striking employees could be replaced almost immediately. Airlines wouldn't even have to declare bankruptcy to nuulify the contracts, the unions nullify them as soon as their membership stages an illegal strike. Bye, bye job.

So, to answer your question: no, we don't need a nation-wide strike. It would cause further injury to an already damaged industry. But, it would mean the end of airline unions. Maybe that's not a bad thing...
 
incitatus
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RE: Do We Need A National Strike?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:55 am

Quoting CO767FA (Thread starter):

Industry workers are being squeezed and Executives are lining their pockets with millions.

Air transportation is essential to a large country like the US. A nationwide strike would cripple the economy. If I were government and faced with such a strike, I'd certify foreign carriers to provide domestic services to prevent a total collapse of economic activity.

I have no words to describe this idea of a nationwide strike. It would prevent the transport of blood and organs for transplant. It would prevent people from traveling to seek medical help in an emergency - it would KILL lots of people. It would prevent people from visiting dying relatives and from doing business that generates economic growth and wealth. Brilliant uh? In short, executives lining up their pockets does less damage than letting FA's run companies and the economy.
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