Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
HPRamper
Topic Author
Posts: 5009
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:33 am

At work this morning I was highly entertained watching inexperienced Northwest employees attempting to push aircraft. It looked like a training class. After the first push (of a 752) went less than spectacularly, they were out on the ramp pushing around a bare towbar for practice. I realized that only MX is allowed to push aircraft for NW. I know FedEx also uses this policy. Question is: WHY?

At HP, every ramper undergoes pushtug training. It is not difficult with a little practice, so why do NW and FX not do this as well? One may point out that having "highly trained" MX personnel doing the pushing reduces the chance of an accident or "bad push", but after all the accidents we've seen involving NW aircraft I'd argue with that. I just think so much hassle could be avoided if there was any cross-training.

Another question - do any other airlines have policies like this?
 
AirRuss
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:02 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:44 am

I think it's simply a union issue. At UA, mechanics push back planes in the hubs, union ramp pushes them back in the line stations that have separate ramp / CS personnel, and at the small line stations, almost any trained employee can push the plane back.

I suspect that AMFA simply had it in the contract as part of the duties of a mechanic.
 
king
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:58 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:10 am

It's a very expensive, highly unproductive bargaining agreement placed in the mechanics contract. Legacy carriers need to work smarter. It sounds like NW management is trying to do just that with their stand against the mechanic's union.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:16 am

I can see one reason though: If there is a MX snag on depature, a trained mechanic can often talk a pilot through a procedure to clear the problem, so that the plane can fly (e.g. when the MD-11 got introduced, sometimes the hydraulic system controller would fail the automatic engine driven pump test through a software hiccup. We would then talk the pilots through the manual test, which, if ok, would permit the plane to fly). Another example would be to tell the pilots to pull a C/B, wait a few seconds and reset it to reboot a computer, which had crashed. A ramper would have to pull the plane back into it's parking position and call MX to solve the problem.

Jan

[Edited 2005-08-21 02:18:21]
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:19 am

At large maint. bases NW mechs did pushbacks. At smaller stations without techs the rampers did them. What you saw this morning was very likely the first time that crew ever did one. It will be for most of us at a large station. People were sent to downline stations to learn starting several months ago but hands on training never seemed to begin until after the strike began.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15082
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:21 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 3):
I can see one reason though: If there is a MX snag on depature, a trained mechanic can often talk a pilot through a procedure to clear the problem, so that the plane can fly

That may be a good justification, but the reason any union requires anything is to promote more work for them, which means more employees, which means more members, which means more money, in their eyes.

The problem of course is that it often makes an airline pay higher pay for a job that doesn't require it, which costs money, which makes the airline less competitive, etc.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
User avatar
Crosswind
Posts: 2577
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:45 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 3):
I can see one reason though: If there is a MX snag on depature, a trained mechanic can often talk a pilot through a procedure to clear the problem

While that's true, our line offices at main bases are generally located within the piers where our flights depart. If there is a problem on pushback our engineers are only 1-2 minutes away in a ramp van...

If engineers were required to push the aircraft back airlines would need a lot more of them, and that seems to be the point of the union rules at Northwest. On straight turnarounds a pair of engineers in ramp cars can check several aircraft in the course of an hour as long as there are no major defects, now if they were required to wait with an aircraft to push it back staff numbers and as a result, operating costs, would increase significantly.

I don't see the link between the skills of a licenced aircraft engineer and a pusback crew, both require training and a skillset, but I don't think they are the same!

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:12 am

More commonly known as "receipt and dispatch".

UA had it in their contract with the IAM (and I think AMFA) for the longest time. UA tried to take it away many times, but failed each time. Very contentious issue with the mechanics.

They are responsible for the aircraft while on the ground, and to ensure that it is airworthy when it's ready to depart again. I agree that it should be kept with the mechanics, not $8/hour ramp people.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:23 am

Quoting HPRamper (Thread starter):
I realized that only MX is allowed to push aircraft for NW. I know FedEx also uses this policy. Question is: WHY?

It's a job function that has been fiercly protected and bargained for by the unions. This is very expensive for the airline.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1240
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:58 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:48 am

I believe FDX created this policy of their own volition as their mechanics are not unionized. Especially with older, complex "steam" aircraft, I can see a reliability benefit that would be very valuable given FedEx's obsession with operating on-time and their need to deliver to their customers when they say they will. Not to mention, I suspect mechanics are a bit more careful when pushing a/c than the average ramper would be (you break it, you fix it!) Plus, if they are going to be around to fix and/or check the thing anyway, why not get a little extra productivity out of them instead of sending them to the break room while the ramp finishes the flight? Maybe they can save a few ramp positions in the process.

Although, I must admit I am a little surprised that this policy has continued.

joe
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:03 pm

When I was working for Alaska in 94, ramp did the pushbacks at Anchorage, unless the APU was inop and the aircraft needed an airstart, then it became a mechanics job.

I agree with most of the people here, an A&P license, and A&P rates should not be needed to push back an aircraft.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
GulfstreamGuy
Posts: 633
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 1999 6:30 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:28 pm

Here in LIT almost all the employees pushback and pull our planes around. We used to do powerbacks but they took that privy away.


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Jason W. Hamm




GulfstreamGuy airplane 
"If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane. " -Jimmy Buffett
 
CMHSRQ
Posts: 846
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:28 pm

I was a contract employee in SRQ. NWA had their own rampers but we dumped the lavs and did pushbacks. I pushed back plenty of DC-9's and 727's I was very careful on all pushbacks for any airline. It's a multimillion dollar aircraft, and your job is on the line everytime, don't want to screw up. I think Irkamerica got it right.
The voice of moderation
 
FedEx
Posts: 706
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:07 pm

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:43 pm

Here in MEM, FedEx has started to utilize ASA's (aircraft service attendants) for push crews after having mechanics push and catch the aircraft from day one of the company. Maint. still does a good bit of the pushes and it has saved our butts more than a few times with exactly what MD11Engineer said. The ASA program came about to try and free up some time for the AMT's to work more maintenance items, however (in my opinion) we have seen any gain be offset with an increase in delays due to no maintenance present for nuisance dispatch discrepancies and an increase in aircraft damage.
 
N867BX
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:19 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:43 pm

This is an example of why all union contracts are not created equal. Next time someone says "but WN has unions" remember that there are PLENTY of rules that increase the costs of one contract vs another.
 
User avatar
ramprat74
Posts: 1361
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:40 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 7):
More commonly known as "receipt and dispatch".

UA had it in their contract with the IAM (and I think AMFA) for the longest time. UA tried to take it away many times, but failed each time. Very contentious issue with the mechanics.

They are responsible for the aircraft while on the ground, and to ensure that it is airworthy when it's ready to depart again. I agree that it should be kept with the mechanics, not $8/hour ramp people.

Man, thats funny. I can see your dad is a retired UA mechanic. When they had R&D in PDX. They brought the plane in, walked around the plane, then went inside to sleep for the next hour. They came out at departure time and pushed it. The only mechanics that do anything are the graveyard guys here in PDX. I respect them.

When I worked in DFW. I was only making $6.87 a hour after my ESOP cut in pay. We did R&D, towing/brake riding, and air starts. I transferred to a station that had mechanics. They were the only people who could do these jobs. They thought they were so special. I'm glad the mechanics lost R&D.
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:53 pm

At United Airlines hubs and stations, the rampers do the push backs. They transitioned that function from the mechanics years ago. I can't believe Northwest was still being held hostage by the mechanics' union on this.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:35 pm

Quoting RampRat74 (Reply 15):
Man, thats funny. I can see your dad is a retired UA mechanic. When they had R&D in PDX. They brought the plane in, walked around the plane, then went inside to sleep for the next hour. They came out at departure time and pushed it. The only mechanics that do anything are the graveyard guys here in PDX. I respect them.

Don't misunderstand me, were I used to work until recently us mechanics / engineers had to walk out the planes (driving the tug was done by a ramper of the airport company). I could do without this job, especially if it includes standing for half an hour outside in freezing rain, waiting for the plane to get it's pushback clearance. Our offices / break rooms were on the other side of the airport and the customer insisted that mechanics would walk the planes out. IMO, it would have been enough to have a few guys present on the ramp in a MX truck, with radios, in case some plane needed assistance.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:07 pm

Adding to my post about push backs, at United Airlines' hubs and stations the rampers do the air starts (necesssary to start the engines if the APU is inoperative) as well.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:11 pm

It was this sort of union mandated policy that lead to powerbacks becoming so common at many airports (a practice now in decline due the not only the fuel costs, but the tightening of ramp regulations at many of the airports that allowed it.). Eastern started doing powerbacks back in the early 1980s to get the IAM mechanics out of the process and let the lower-paid rampers do it. I noticed when NW was still doing powerbacks @ ATL, that it was the mechanics who did it as well.

By only allowing the mechanics to do the pushbacks, an airline adds expenses, as you're going to have to hire additional maintenance staff as some will always be busy doing pushbacks. When you compare the average pay of an AMT to that of a ramper, it's a better use of resources to have the ramp do the pushbacks. Having three say $18/hr. mechanics pushing back an a/c (and wingwalking) instead of three say $8.75/hr. rampers doing it is a waste of money.

Having worked for two airlines where the ramp staff did all pushbacks, powerbacks, and towing, it really makes the most sense to do it that way. There's no telling how many delays we would have been taking if we had to wait for a mechanic to do the pushback (There were times when it would take a half hour after the MX dept. was called to even get one to the a/c that had a problem. I've heard of pilots when they call in range tell Flight Ops of a problem and it MX wouldn't be there to meet the a/c, and sometimes the pilots would get pissed off.). I have several hundred pushbacks and powerbacks under my belt, and feel as though it's a waste of operational resources to have to have the mechanics do the pushbacks.

[Edited 2005-08-21 16:11:45]
 
slider
Posts: 7565
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:26 pm

Quoting King (Reply 2):
It's a very expensive, highly unproductive bargaining agreement placed in the mechanics contract.

Yes it is. And pointless too. Onerous and obsolete labor rules such as this were hallmarks of TWA, that also had this byzantine provision, and that was one such example of why the good people at TWA, who had high aggreggate labor costs but low individual pay, were so frustrated.

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 7):
I agree that it should be kept with the mechanics, not $8/hour ramp people.

there is no legitimate business reason for mechanics doing this. None. I've done the training, it's not rocket science, so don't assign some mystical great worth to doing it. You train ramp people to do R&D, hook up tow bars, plug in, talk to the captain, operate the tug, steer off the gate, unhook, salute, rinse and repeat.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 16):
I can't believe Northwest was still being held hostage by the mechanics' union on this.

Until the first--and I guess last!--AMFA contract, they weren't. But just as labor is wont to do, the order of the day is more, more, more. I'm sure NW quantified the cost and balanced it against the other stuff in the contract negotiations at the time...it's all horsetrading. Sadly, they got looped into a massively expensive contract that added needless heads to the payroll, increased that part of labor CASM massively, and put major burden on the pensions in terms of longterm costs.
 
wobbles
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:40 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:19 am

I just think since mechanics are trained professionals when it comes to familiarization with a/c, particulary in the flight deck when brake riding, that they are better off doing it, when it is practical anyway. In hubs were rampers do it, I would hope that they have designated folks who do that and nothing else. It would be too bad to see this likely sistuation: 3 rampers loading a full a320 (which is not too uncommon with my airline thanks to improper staffing levels), under the gun to get a flight out on time that was already late inbound...they are stressed out to get an on time departure and forget to, for example, put a pin in the nosegear of the A320 and when they unhook it, the towbar snaps to the left or right and takes out the legs of the ramper near the nosegear. In small airports without much traffic, I can see rampers or anybody doing it, the larger stations, leave it to the professional mechanics who went to school to learn about a/c's inside and out.
 
avpilot01
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:28 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:33 am

2 words why it was put in their contract: job stability
 
Bicoastal
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:46 am

Sorry, Wobbles, but you're a bit out of touch. At United Dulles, each flight has a ramp crew of one lead and three to five others, depending on the size of the aircraft. At least two of each ramp crew are Receive and Dispatch (R & D) qualified. One drives the pushback, the other wing walks. It's simply part of their job to load an A319, A320, 737, 757, 767, 777 or 747, hook it up and then get the plane out to the taxiway. No stress. Given the emphasis on safety at United and most airlines, the scenario you depict just wouldn't happen. The scenario you depict would be an improper procedure and would never happen with someone who has been through even minimal training. Nose gear and tow bar should be line up straight with the length of the aircraft before disconnecting....never at an angle.

And who's to say a mechanic wouldn't make the same stupid mistake?

Improper staffing levels is an issue with airlines, but has nothing to do with who has the ability to push an airplane.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
r311music
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:49 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:03 am

All I have to say is that pushing back an aircraft is really not difficult. On my second try with a fully loaded 737, I got it out there without a hitch. If anyone knows BDL they know that gate 2 for WN requires a nice S turn which I've done after only 1 week of pushing. And I also get paid 8.75/hr and do it safely as my job depends on being able to do it. I've noticed the only people who have trouble with pushing are because they are the ones that are so worried about having a multimillion dollar plane in their control.

[Edited 2005-08-21 18:13:09]
confusing use of time
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:12 am

BIcoastal

Ref UA gate staffing at Dulles

If that per gate or gate crew and was it the same before the pay cuts of concessions and BK? Am really interested because at our NW hub we average one chief and 3 to 4 rampers but it's for three to four gates. Extras are supposedly added if load warrant. If we have multiple arrivals they just have to wait to be parked. If proper staffing for parking is used that takes almost the full crew with wing walkers. I'm wondering if when we get knocked down to your wages (no offense at all intended - just the nature of the business) if we will get more help.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
User avatar
ramprat74
Posts: 1361
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:23 am

Here in PDX. We have one lead, and three rampers. It use to be like that when I worked in DEN. The narrowbody gates have four guys, the widebody gates have five. Then you have transfer runners come out and run your Xbags for the gate. I think DEN is running eight guys for three gates now. I know SFO and ORD are super short in the manpower department. They have three guys per gate.
 
wobbles
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:40 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:07 am

Biscostal, Granted it has been only 2 or 3 times in 11 years, but the sistuation I pointed out has happened with my airline. All I was trying to point out is that, just like anything else, the more manpower you have, the less stress there is and a designated pushback driver can take a little pressure of the overall sistuation.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17961
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:26 am

Quoting HPRamper (Thread starter):
I realized that only MX is allowed to push aircraft for NW. I know FedEx also uses this policy.

It's insane self-perpetuated job security for union goons. I can't believe airlines still do this.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
HPRamper
Topic Author
Posts: 5009
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:17 am

At HP, at least at outstations, rampers do everything except brakeride and fix the plane when it breaks. I think the "mechanics are more highly trained and get paid more" idea is a farce, how big someone's paycheck is will not determine how responsible and attentive they are on the ramp. I got a push right my first time, it's not difficult, and neither is communicating with the captain. Airstarts are also not a big deal at all, there is nothing technical about them.
 
Jetblue15
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:27 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:59 am

Exactly. Union. I wish MX pushed our planes out. Why should I take responsibility of a multi million dollar airplane and get paid sh*t at the same time. Let MX do it. Now if the airline paid extra for those who are qualified to push then I have no problem. I stoped pushing planes out last year when somone was pushing and cliped the winglet. That person had two years of experience pushing but his left wingwalker wasnt paying attention so he got blamed along with the wingwalker. They got put under the heat lamp and question to death, drug tested and then suspended for two days without pay. Why take the risk if your not going to get paid for it. This of course is from a B6 employee point of view. I would love to know policys on other carriers.
racecar spelled backwards spells racecar
 
CWAFlyer
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:33 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:08 am

Pushbacks aren't that difficult. I've done many in my day. It's sort of
the same silly ass stuff a union gets okayed to protect jobs like
TWA had with a mechanic having to ride in the catering truck.
 
707guy
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 1:59 pm

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:14 am

Jeez - at DGS here in CLE I did pushbacks and I was APU/brake rider qualed on the 732. No big deal doing pushbacks - take it easy and you're fine. We handled all of HP's aircraft as well. Where I'm at now we tow a/c into and out of our hangers all the time - from 172's to Gulfstream IV's - no special training - just take it slow and easy and always have wing walkers.
 
slider
Posts: 7565
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:23 am

Quoting R311music (Reply 24):
All I have to say is that pushing back an aircraft is really not difficult.

Exactly. We know the truth in this argument...

Quoting CWAFlyer (Reply 31):
It's sort of
the same silly ass stuff a union gets okayed to protect jobs like
TWA had with a mechanic having to ride in the catering truck.

Holy cow!!! Yeah- I forgot about that one!!! Under the guise of "quality control" they had leads riding shotgun doing NOTHING in EACH catering truck....insane!
 
Jetblue15
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:27 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:09 am

But don't you all think you should at leat get paid extra if you are qualified to push? I realize its not rocket science, I used to do it all the time. The only good thing about pushing is when its 10 degrees outside and you don't have to wingwalk the plane out.
racecar spelled backwards spells racecar
 
jetstar
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:18 am

Years ago I knew an A&P who had worked for Eastern Airlines. His job was push backs and that’s all he did. He told me the union contract allowed for only 11 push backs per day. Since he was paid hourly, after he did his required 11 push backs, he would then just sit in the line office until quitting time and he could not be called out for any other push backs without paying him overtime. They had a name for this do nothing time, they called it ass time and he used to get a least a few hours a day of this. He was proud of this and the other “job security” rules that the unions had at Eastern.
 
707guy
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 1:59 pm

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:45 am

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 34):
But don't you all think you should at leat get paid extra if you are qualified to push?

Heck yeah - I think I should have received a little more for being apu/rider qualled too - but non-union shop at DGS - no way they'll pay more...
 
HPRamper
Topic Author
Posts: 5009
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:19 pm

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 34):
But don't you all think you should at leat get paid extra if you are qualified to push?

Why? I prefer to think I should be paid more for lumping 60 and 70 pound baggage in the bin of a 737, which is a LOT tougher and causes a lot more wear and tear on my body than pushing a plane ever will. Not to mention I sincerely believe stacking baggage like a 3D Tetris game takes more skill than pointing the tail of a plane one way or the other.
 
MGB80
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:03 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:35 pm

Having worked for airlines that have used both ramp people and mechanics to perform pushbacks...I can offer you my take on the subject.
a lot of mechanics became "tug slugs" and all they ended up doing is pushing aircraft... they lost their troubleshooting skills working the line only to drive tugs.
Whereas if all you do in your job is fix aircraft (as opposed to driving tugs) you retain and even increase your troubleshooting and mechanical skills.
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1659
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: Why Does NW Only Let MX Push Planes?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:10 pm

jetstar,
that crazy but true story reminds me of the crazy work assignments that AC had in YYZ....the potable truck guy and the lav guy just sat in their respective trucks or break rooms till they were dispatched out to a call...sometimes they were busy and sometimes they were able to watch an entire hockey game....1 minute past their go home time got them a "easy hour"as we call it in the ual system....
Bus Driver

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos