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Chiguire
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Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:15 am

Today a DC 9- 51 (YV-42C) from Aeropostal on the way from Puerto Ordaz (PZO) to Caracas had to return and perform an emergency landing.
One of the engines was causing problems and finally cought fire.

The aircraft was carrying 130 passengers and landed safely.

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Photo © Ricardo Coppola
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Photo © Javier F. Bobadilla - Iberian Spotters


This happend only some days after an aircraft of Aeropostal skidded off the runway at the same airport.

The source in Spanish: http://www.correodelcaroni.com/index...ntent&task=view&id=6655&Itemid=130

These are not really happy days for Aeropostal !
 
semsem
Posts: 1621
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RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:39 am

These Aeropostal planes look really oooooooooooooooold to me. I have a funny feeling they are at least 30 year old DC9s. I saw one once in Aruba.
 
Chiguire
Topic Author
Posts: 1848
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RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:41 am

Just some more details:
- The passengers claimed, that the engine was not working well already during taxi and take-off. They informed a crew member who did not react (I am sure the pilot s were aware anyway).
- The emergency slides didn't deploy and some airport handlers had to push some stairs some 600 meters across the airfield until reaching the plane ! (Doesn't the DC9 have their own stairs in front ?)

The flight was half and hour delayed (!) and the passengers were already discussing in writing a complaint to the airline due to this delay.

And I think this is the main problem that Aeropostal has at the moment: after quite a lot of cancellations and delays they are watched closely. And everybody, including the pilots are under the pressure to improve on-time performance.

But this should of course NEVER lead to a decision to fly with a plane that is obviously not OK !
Aeropostal needs to renew their fleet ! And the government needs to create the basis for the airlines to get Dollars to do so (and waive the taxes therefore).
 
Chiguire
Topic Author
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:48 am

Quoting Semsem (Reply 1):
I have a funny feeling they are at least 30 year old DC9s. I saw one once in Aruba.

Yes, you are right. This one war mfd in Oct 1970 ! In service for Swissair, Texas International and Continental. With Aeropostal since July 2000.
 
B757200
Posts: 184
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RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:02 am

This is bad, very bad for VH. I pray to God that Venezuelan airlines' management do not wait for a tragedy to occur in order to take their fleet renewal as a serious issue. For how long do they think they can safely fly those jets? Obviously the economic situation in Venezuela is anything but favorable to airlines, but I still think that something can be done....something has to be done.  old 
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 3088
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:13 am

I wouldn't blow the issue out of proportion. Things like this happen on newer planes, too. I flew on an NW plane last summer that was built before this one was, and it performed flawlessly.

While fleet renewal is something they should be thinking about, I don't think incidents like these should be used as reasoning why the renewal should be expedited.

These are solid, well built airplanes, and Aeropostal takes good care of them. Just a bad string of events for the airline, thats all.

JBLU
 
lhrmaccoll
Posts: 567
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RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:15 am

Just because it is 30 years old, doesn't mean its a death trap!
If they are well maintained, they will go fine, its not a 'All DC9s or MD-80s over 20 years old are deadly', i mean look at DHL's DC-8s! Coming up for 40 years old, and flying just like the day they rolled out of the factory
Alex
 
Chiguire
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Posts: 1848
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RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:18 am

Quoting B757200 (Reply 4):
. For how long do they think they can safely fly those jets?

Well, you have to see that some of them are extremely old and it is only a matter of time that something seriuos happens. They are all "playing" with our lives:

Aserca fleet age 37,4 years (newest 1969 !!!) fleet: 11 DC9
Laser fleet age 37,5 years (newest 1968) fleet: 2 DC9

Aeropostal now has a quite "new" fleet. They are replacing the DC9 against MD8x aging around 15-18 years.
But even this is much too old.
 
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viasa
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RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:27 am

Puh twice time at PZO....

In the past months VH had chance some B727s to newer MD-80s - but they have still very old DC-9s in the fleet.

Fleet of VH:

  • 3 Boeing 727-200
  • 1 Boeing 727-200 F (still stored at MIA - maybe ntu?)
  • 3 Douglas DC-9-20 (one leased-out to Aeropostal - Alas de Centro America)
  • 7 Douglas DC-9-30
  • 12 Douglas DC-9-50
  • 4 MDDouglas MD-82 (2 further to come)
  • 1 MDDouglas MD-83 (1 further to come)


I heard that it is forbidden to buy (lease) new aircrafts for private airlines of Venezuela, because the start-up of Conviasa. Is that correct?

[Edited 2005-08-21 23:40:21]
 
Chiguire
Topic Author
Posts: 1848
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RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:33 am

Quoting Viasa (Reply 8):
I heard that it is forbidden to buy (lease) new aircrafts for private airlines of Venezuela, because the start-up of Conviasa. Is that correct?

No, you can do whatever you want to, as soon as you pay the tremendous taxes of around 35 %. But there seems to be some movement, I read somewhere that they intend to waive that tax under certain circumstances.

But, VIASA, where do you have that fleetlist from ? The 727 is only one left, operated by Falcon Air Express, and most of the DC9-30 and lots of the -50 are gone. I think there are onls 2 -20 (one in SJO). And the MD8x are 6 own (YV-01C to YV-06C) with one being in SJO as well. And there is a 7th one with N-reg for CCS-MIA.
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 3088
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:04 am

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 7):

Well, you have to see that some of them are extremely old and it is only a matter of time that something seriuos happens. They are all "playing" with our lives:

Aserca fleet age 37,4 years (newest 1969 !!!) fleet: 11 DC9
Laser fleet age 37,5 years (newest 1968) fleet: 2 DC9

Aeropostal now has a quite "new" fleet. They are replacing the DC9 against MD8x aging around 15-18 years.
But even this is much too old.

Age of the aircraft has nothing to do with its mechanical stability. I don't know how many times this gets posted a day- but age is NOT a factor in the reliability and safety of an airliner. If it was, Northwest and even Aeropostal wouldnt be flying them. I mean- seriously- look at Northwest. Over 100 DC-9s, some of them dating back to the mid-late 1960s. They are STILL flying today, and that is a testament to the maintenence at Northwest as well as the build quality of the airframe. In fact, I might even feel safer on an NW DC-9 than I would on any other plane in their fleet. The mere fact that these planes are still flying around today is all the evidence I need that they have withstood the test of time.

Airlines do not play with peoples lives by flying old airplanes. Age is nothing but a number if the maintenence practices are solid.

God forbid you have to fly on a DC-9, or even the older 757s now. If 15 years is "much too old" of an airplane for you, why dont you just start building your own airplanes to fly?

15 years old? I say 15 years new, with another 15 years of life left at least!

JBLU
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:54 am

Thanks God the aircraft landed safely. But as B757200 says:

Quoting B757200 (Reply 4):
I pray to God that Venezuelan airlines' management do not wait for a tragedy to occur in order to take their fleet renewal as a serious issue. For how long do they think they can safely fly those jets?


[Edited 2005-08-22 01:55:24]
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
B757200
Posts: 184
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RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:47 pm

First of all, I don't want to bash Aeropostal with my comments. I just want to point out what I see (and what people tell me) with preoccupation. I would love to see Aeropostal as a top airline, but unfortunately this is not the case. At least for now.

Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 5):
While fleet renewal is something they should be thinking about, I don't think incidents like these should be used as reasoning why the renewal should be expedited.

This is something they should have thought years ago, not now. And it's not just about safety, but also about maintenance costs and public image. Believe me, you have to hear the comments of people about their disgrace of flying Aeropostal or Aserca (they have DC-9's as well). People don't trust these "buses with fitted wings", as they call them. They don't feel safe flying on them, but they do it because often they don't have other choice.

Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 5):
These are solid, well built airplanes, and Aeropostal takes good care of them. Just a bad string of events for the airline, that's all.

I don't doubt McDonnell Douglas manufactured good aircraft, but how do you know about Aeropostal's maintenance? I had the same opinion a couple of years ago, but after talking to a Venezuelan pilot who happens to know what's really going on there I changed my mind. He told me most of those DC-9's are pieces of junk, and Aeropostal just put a little "make-up" on them.


Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 10):
Age of the aircraft has nothing to do with its mechanical stability. I don't know how many times this gets posted a day- but age is NOT a factor in the reliability and safety of an airliner.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. They are machines.
 
LX23
Posts: 337
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:54 pm

RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:58 pm

Quoting Viasa (Reply 8):
I heard that it is forbidden to buy (lease) new aircrafts for private airlines of Venezuela, because the start-up of Conviasa. Is that correct?

Viasa: this is quite simply not true...as a matter of fact, there have been rumours that the government was even considering waiving the incredibly backward high taxes imposed on aircraft purchases y previous governments for a certain period.

This "forbidden to buy new airplanes" thing is just the typical fabricated drivel that the opposition spreads to get people to think that Venezuela is turning into a communist country (never mind that its actually closer to the socialist democracies that many Europeans enjoy).
 
semsem
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:06 am

RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:11 pm

>>Yes, you are right. This one war mfd in Oct 1970 ! In service for Swissair, Texas International and Continental. With Aeropostal since July <<

Thanks for the information. I would not feel comfortable flying in a 35 year old plane. However I think Aeropostal's safety record is good.

I heard the Venezuelan Government will establish a new airline with modern equipment.
 
Chiguire
Topic Author
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:57 pm

News from today

In a press release Aeropostal informs that it was a birdstrike (a Zamuro/Vulture) that caused this incident.
http://www.nuevaprensa.com.ve/ver_art.php?cod=21963

They also claim that there is too much waste around the airport, attracting those birds.

So if this turns out to be true, than it's of course not a fault of Aeropostal and its maintenance.

Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 10):
I don't know how many times this gets posted a day- but age is NOT a factor in the reliability and safety of an airliner.

I agree on that. But it's simply the fact that, the older the aircraft, the more attention it needs in terms of maintenance. And this is where I doubt that you can compare NW with VH or R7.
Apart of the fact that it is incredibly difficult to get the Dollars for spare parts.

The airline LAI has now temporary shut down operations with their two ATR72 (BTW quite new ones) as they are waiting for months to get the US Dollar to buy new parts for maintenance.

Now you could say: Good, if there is a safety matter, then just don't fly ! But don't forget our socialistic (not to say communist) government, because if you don't fulfill your schedule (that of course needs always to be approved), then you get a fine. And this happened to Aeropostal recently:

http://www.cadenaglobal.com/Default.asp?pgm=Detail&Not=94489&Sec=%205

So what would be your decision in such cases ?
 
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viasa
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:46 am

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 9):
But, VIASA, where do you have that fleetlist from ? The 727 is only one left, operated by Falcon Air Express, and most of the DC9-30 and lots of the -50 are gone. I think there are onls 2 -20 (one in SJO). And the MD8x are 6 own (YV-01C to YV-06C) with one being in SJO as well. And there is a 7th one with N-reg for CCS-MIA.

Maybe you know our site. We have there fleetlists, so I've the information from there. But, I know that we are not allways up to date in Southamerica.

Here is the fleetlist:

  • 22460/1746: B727-223Adv.(F) WIN.: N702NE (Cargo division / Std at MIA)
  • 22451/1767: B727-224Adv.: N79749 (opb Falcon Air)
  • 49905/1767: MD-82: N905TA (opf Transmeridian or Falcon Air, Std at DSM)
  • 49822/1539: MD-83: YV-01C
  • 48067/1028: MD-82: YV-02C
  • 49103/1083: MD-82: YV-04C
  • 49393/1279: MD-82: YV-05C
  • 49394/1285: MD-82: YV-06C
  • 47713/820: DC-9-51: YV-10C
  • 47306/462: DC-9-21: YV-11C
  • 47360/475: DC-9-21: YV-12C
  • 47301/382: DC-9-21: YV-13C
  • 47738/830: DC-9-51: YV-14C
  • 47771/883: DC-9-51: YV-15C
  • 21984/1574: B727-231Adv.(RE): YV-18C
  • 47705/842: DC-9-51: YV-20C
  • 47719/845: DC-9-51: YV-21C
  • 47703/841: DC-9-51: YV-22C
  • 47727/848: DC-9-32: YV-24C
  • 47721/847: DC-9-32: YV-25C
  • 47770/892: DC-9-51: YV-32C
  • 47782/893: DC-9-51: YV-33C
  • 47712/815: DC-9-51: YV-35C
  • 47752/872: DC-9-34F(CF): YV-37C
  • 21632/1462: B727-231Adv.(RE): YV-40C
  • 47656/783: DC-9-51: YV-42C
  • 47695/806: DC-9-51: YV-43C
  • 47694/805: DC-9-51: YV-44C
  • 47535/610: DC-9-32: YV-46C
  • 47490/560: DC-9-31: YV-47C
  • 45847/394: DC-9-32: YV-48C
  • 47539/637: DC-9-32: YV-49C


On order: 1 MD-82 (former Finnair) and 1 MD-83 (former Spirit).

Please correct my list, if there are some errors.
 
Chiguire
Topic Author
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting Viasa (Reply 16):

Please correct my list, if there are some errors.

aaah, ja. So genau wollte ich es auch nicht wissen !
Yes, I know you site. Just forgot about it.
What I can tell you is, that there are definitely no more 727 YV-registered. One N from Transmeridian is still in service for VLN-MAR-MIA. The rest seems to be gone.
One of the DC9-21 is now Costa Rica registered and there is only one remaining. But I am always talking about what is in service. I have no clue about what is parked at their graveyard in CCS for spareparts.
Your MD8x list looks good, although I am quite sure that one (02C ?) will also go to Costa Rica.
About the other DC9-30 and -50 I can only say, that it looks much too long to me. But I have no further details...
 
TGV
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:37 pm

RE: Aeropostal Emergency Landing!

Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:43 am

Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 10):
Age is nothing but a number if the maintenence practices are solid.

This is the point. And this is where I am concerned: when you live, as I do, in Venezuela, you understand very quickly that the notion of maintenance is something not so well managed here.

It is far more rewarding to have something new to inaugurate than to do the daily and obscure work of maintenance. To take an example, there are problems on the roads during every rainy season. Often due to inadequate (or absence of) maintenance of the drainage systems. And this goes up to collapse of the highways (like on one of the main "autopistas" of the country two weeks ago).



If you add to this the difficulties to buy spare parts as you have to pay in dollar, this is a recipe for disaster.
I will never fly again 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y

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