First Development 787 Nose Completed

SonofHerman · Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:17 am

I cant wait to see the 787 in NWA colors....

I hope that they are still around to take delivery of them....

NWA742 · Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:17 am

Quoting A340600 (Reply 41):
though this plane is starting to look more and more normal

Sorry attempt to discredit the 787.

Boeing never claimed it would be significantly different as far as looks compared to other airliners.

However, the physics, technology, and efficiency will be quite different. In these terms, it will indeed be a different airliner, and a better airliner.

-NWA742

ContnlEliteCMH · Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:33 am

Wow. Beautiful! I'm enamored of the carbon fiber fuselage. I love how they can vary the thickness at will. I love how it can assume shapes not possible with metal. I think cutting out the doors and windows with a water drill is one of the most elegant, simple processes.

I also love how they "spin" an airplane. You take a few tape heads, some frames, and a mandrel, and like a spider spins a web, you make an airplane. Okay, okay. That's a little simplistic. But it's sooooo cool.

That nose reminds me of a sports car. Very sleek.

Shenzhen · Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:44 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 18):
Im still wondering, why are the cockpit windows so low? Is the cockpit itself slightly lower than the main cabin?

The 767 has a step down to the flight deck, so maybe the 787 does also.

Cheers

NWA742 · Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:20 pm

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 53):
The 767 has a step down to the flight deck, so maybe the 787 does also.

I believe the 757 is the one that has the step down to the cockpit, not the 767.

Maybe both have it, not sure though.

-NWA742

AirTranTUS · Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:05 pm

I agree that a person standing near it would be gould so we have an accurate scale of the nose section. Is it just me or does the door seem a little small?

Mainliner · Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:15 pm

I'm still a little confused as to why it's painted already...will this nose section be used on an actual production aircraft? Or is it meant to be a mockup for how the production nose sections will look?

litz · Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:14 pm

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 5):
Witchita huh? Are they going to train these fuselages to Everett? Or is this where that chubby 747 pic I saw come in?

Most likely by Beluga, or whatever the 747-guppyized thing is called ...

There a valid reason : 737 fuselages are shipped by train (go to railpictures.net, there's shots of airplanes on trains all over the place).

Problem is - almost every single one of those 737 fuselages arrives with multiple bullet holes.

It's much easier to patch aluminum than a composite material ...

Also, an assembled fuselage the size of a 787 piece would be too large for a train.

A 737 fuselage is pretty much about as big as you can ship by rail .. they clear some bridges in Wisconsin by less than 1 foot ...

For an interesting article w/pictures on shipping 737 pieces by rail, go to : http://krugtales.50megs.com/rrpictale/p010713/p010713a.htm

Note the incredibly tight bridge clearances.

Quoting Air NZ (Reply 36):
Just had a thought, other then the cost, is it Possible to buy a nose section of an aircraft from any Manufacturer. It would be great fun to have one, put it on the front lawn, build it into the house, etc

Find your nearest aircraft disassembly company. For real cheap (well, a mere few thousand dollars) you can pretty much have 'em chop the front end of a soon-to-be-scrapped airliner. There are several well documented projects on the 'net from people who've done exactly this for flight simulators.

- litz

[Edited 2005-08-26 07:25:11]

grantcv · Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:20 pm

Another look at the new nose. Looks awfully like a Caravelle in this picture:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/photos/photo.asp?PhotoID=71749

I was expecting the cabin windows to be different. Either they are larger all around or they are as tall as promised.

grantcv · Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:23 pm

Quoting Mainliner (Reply 56):
I'm still a little confused as to why it's painted already...will this nose section be used on an actual production aircraft? Or is it meant to be a mockup for how the production nose sections will look?

I believe this is a development piece - a prototype to test out the manufacturng process. It will never be on an actual plane. Production is still a ways off.

Air NZ · Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:26 pm

Quoting Litz (Reply 57):
Find your nearest aircraft disassembly company.

Ohh yes I know that way lol. Though in New Zealand that wouldn't be easy unless going on a buying spree. Then shipping it back.

But does anyone know if it is possible to walse up to Boeing of Airbus and ask, especially if you want an A380 or 787 since in theory they won't be scrapped any time soon unless someone stuffs something up big time.

If not I will actually go and email them and see what they say!

[Edited 2005-08-26 07:38:20]

GQfluffy · Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:52 pm

Quoting Litz (Reply 57):
A 737 fuselage is pretty much about as big as you can ship by rail .. they clear some bridges in Wisconsin by less than 1 foot ...

Living in MT, I see alot of these fuselages...never remember my camera...maybe one of these days. Wisconsin? WTH are they going way up there from Witchita on the way to Everett???

fluffy?

Air NZ · Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:27 pm

Quoting Litz (Reply 57):
Problem is - almost every single one of those 737 fuselages arrives with multiple bullet holes

Was mentioning the famous bullet holes to my brother, I just remembered they have found arrows too.

What would happen if Boeing put signs on the fuselage saying "Don't Shoot! You may be flying on me someday" It may work for some people, or it could cause more trouble!

milan320 · Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:49 pm

Quoting Litz (Reply 57):
Problem is - almost every single one of those 737 fuselages arrives with multiple bullet holes.

Serious? What gives ... people use the fuselage for target practice or is crime so rapant in those parts?
-Milan320

777ER · Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:49 pm

Quoting Zkojh (Reply 22):

Sadly that day can't come soon enough

garpd · Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:55 pm

Quoting Litz (Reply 57):
Problem is - almost every single one of those 737 fuselages arrives with multiple bullet holes.

HA HA HA..... never knew that,.... thats crazy

HAWK21M · Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:29 pm

Looks good.
How many Windows either side.
regds
MEL

jush · Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:02 pm

Well if thats the Nose section the 787 will acltually look like... fantastic...
I love it

boeingbus · Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:36 pm

Very cool...

"One unique feature of the 787 nose section is the big cockpit windows.

All Boeing jetliners today have three cockpit windows on each side. The 787 has two windows per side, and they are about one and a half times as big as those on the 777.

And none of the cockpit windows open. Only the 747 has cockpit windows that don't open. For emergency exit, a 787 the crew would leave through an overhead hatch, just as they would on the 747."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/238059_boeing26.html

DAYflyer · Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:54 pm

Quoting AAgent (Reply 12):

I agree, very impressive looking business end of the airplane! Can't wait to see the rest of it come together, it is going to be AWESOME!!
bigthumbsup

tothestars · Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:18 pm

Im glad they kept the sleek look. It looks much better than I thought it would. No big "forehead" like the 380.

columbia107 · Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:49 pm

Forget about the shape and size. It seems the 787 will be a beauty.
What is incredible is how Boeing is changing the way it builds planes.
I suspect Airbus may have some catching up to do.
Please no AvB.

Western737 · Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:58 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 38):
Actually, their newer planes are getting to be more beautiful... Boeing, unfortunately, has a history of making some ugly planes. So as a company who went from giving us these...

737-200 a ugly bird?? Nooooo! Smile

By the way, I love this 787's new nose part. I am pleased to know that 757-like nose part will going on for other decades!

Western737

ourboeing · Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 1):
Looks familiar, like another plane I've seen, like a 757.

Heck no.

Skinny as hell though.

HAPPY FRIDAY Smile

OURBOEING

BlueSky1976 · Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:53 am

Quoting Western737 (Reply 72):
737-200 a ugly bird?? Nooooo!

I'd take DC-9-30 over that anytime.
Planes are a lot like girls... they are either tall (long) and sleek or short and fat.

Which one would you have?

Halibut · Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting Halibut (Reply 47):
Any more flying ?

All I had to was look at the date in the photo . dah ! blush

The cockpit windows are certainly larger . Kinda like the windshields on ultra high proformance cars . Where the car has a very low profile , the windshield is elongated for better aerodynamics . The windshields on those sports cars are very large when measured from front to back ! Top to bottom , very little distance .

Totally awesome Boeing !

dl757md · Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting Hawker (Reply 32):
Probably a silly thought, but can you paint it before it gets heat treated and essentially bake the paint on?

Not a silly thought at all. Composites get baked in an autoclave (an oven that is pressurized). So it's not heat treating in the traditional sense. It does however provide a perfect opportunity to bond an extremely durable cosmetic finish onto the part. So, not a silly thought, it's probably how Boeing is doing it, at least for the white base finish shown in the pics.

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 53):
The 767 has a step down to the flight deck, so maybe the 787 does also.

The 767 doesn't have a step down into the cockpit, only the 757 does.

Dl757Md

CaptOveur · Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:33 am

It looks like a CRJ on steroids.

Glareskin · Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:35 am

Very good looking nose indeed!

Previous new nose I've seen was the A380. That one didn't win the beauty contest. I'd advice a nosejob for the big bus.

But in case of the 787 the aesthetic surgeon better stays at home! Well proportioned with good accents by the painting. At least a 9 On a 0-10 scale.
bigthumbsup

Beaucaire · Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:41 am

In case of a structural dammage to the body of the 787,will the repairs be thicker than the remaining body ?? Or do repair-manuals forsee a new "backing " in a autoklave type device to achieve the same thickness as the rest ?
It might have been discussed previously but I'm interested in the ways of dealing with scratches and little accidents like they always happen to planes.

dl757md · Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:04 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 79):
In case of a structural dammage to the body of the 787,will the repairs be thicker than the remaining body ??

Properly accomplished composite repairs are typically minimally thicker or higher than the surrounding area. They are sometimes quite difficult for even someone who knows what they are looking for to find. The big question I have about repairs on the 787 fuselage is how will we be able to duplicate the fiber orientation of the original structure with that of the repair plies. Since the fuselage is of a wrapped construction, the direction of the filaments would seemingly be difficult to identify. I'm sure Boeing is working on it and I'm curious to see what they have/will come up with.

Dl757Md

Halibut · Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:30 am

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 77):
It looks like a CRJ on steroids.

Are these CRJ's made of composites also ?

Halibut

Lemonsoda · Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:28 am

Merçi SNATH

access-air · Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:44 am

Yes definately the Comet or Caravelle comes to mind...

cant wait to see the finished product...

Access-Air

Halibut · Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:15 am

Quoting Halibut (Reply 75):
The cockpit windows are certainly larger . Kinda like the windshields on ultra high proformance cars . Where the car has a very low profile , the windshield is elongated for better aerodynamics . The windshields on those sports cars are very large when measured from front to back ! Top to bottom , very little distance

Lemonsoda,
Thanks for providing those 2 photos showing the aerodynamic differences between the 787 & 767. That's what I was trying to say . See how much the 787's cockpit windshield is extended further down the nose of the a/c in order to keep the aerodynamics . Maintaining the 787's nose angle to be swift and unabated !

WOW !

Halibut

grantcv · Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:05 am

I tried superimposing the 787 photo directly on the Brittania 767 photo. Although there are probably scale differences, if you line up the doors (they look to be almost identical in size and shape) you can see a number of differences:

- The 787 cockpit is smaller in volume and the windows are quite a bit lower down. There almost has to be a step into the cockpit like on the 757.
- The distance between the door and the start of the cockpit window looks to be about the same.
- The 787 cockpit windows are larger (definitely as their are four panes rather than just six) but not as much as it first looked like.
- The 787 cabin windows are taller marginally. Quite frankly, they look like 777 & 764 cabin windows with the rounder top and bottom rather than the taller windows I have seen described.
- The 787s looks quite a bit more streamlined, but might also have a bit of a droop snoot look about it.

Jet-lagged · Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:32 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 57):
Problem is - almost every single one of those 737 fuselages arrives with multiple bullet holes.

Are you serious?? Gun nuts are shooting at fuselages that people are going to fly in??? Random violence in yet another bulleted form. What a sad social commentary on a U.S. addicted to its wholesale gun infection.

Lemonsoda,
Thanks for the pic. It makes for good comparisons.

SNATH · Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:22 am

Quoting Lemonsoda (Reply 82):

Merçi SNATH

Pas de quoi! And thank you for putting together the great comparison!

Tony

SNATH · Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:30 am

Incidentally, Boeing's Randy Baseler mentions the new nose in his blog (even though he doesn't actually say anything new about it).

http://www.boeing.com/randy/

Tony

DarthRandall · Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:12 pm

I do like the look of the nose. It may prove to a be a particularly unique-looking aircraft after all!

Quoting Litz (Reply 57):
Problem is - almost every single one of those 737 fuselages arrives with multiple bullet holes.

To paraphrase my handle's namesake, what a bunch of savages.

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 76):
Not a silly thought at all. Composites get baked in an autoclave (an oven that is pressurized). So it's not heat treating in the traditional sense. It does however provide a perfect opportunity to bond an extremely durable cosmetic finish onto the part. So, not a silly thought, it's probably how Boeing is doing it, at least for the white base finish shown in the pics.

Interesting! So, it isn't entirely dissimilar to how Saturn automobiles were painted. That is until they started making them out of metal again.

iwok · Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:47 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 79):
In case of a structural dammage to the body of the 787,will the repairs be thicker than the remaining body ?? Or do repair-manuals forsee a new "backing " in a autoklave type device to achieve the same thickness as the rest ?

The SOP will call for a flight to LAX to visit Hollywood plastic surgeons for a little nose job. As more and more accidents happen and more repair take place, the nose will become skinnier AKA Jax. Smile

iwok

777wt · Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:43 am

Quoting Jet-lagged (Reply 86):
Are you serious?? Gun nuts are shooting at fuselages that people are going to fly in??? Random violence in yet another bulleted form. What a sad social commentary on a U.S. addicted to its wholesale gun infection.

Yes it happens. Some drunk cowboy or wannabe shoots at them for target practice. Boeing on the other hand wants more security and even used protective shells at some point (like a crate with a removable top).

All they could do is patch it up and continue putting it together.

hawker · Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:55 am

Since the whole plane will have to be painted, both fuselage and wings and apparently in a base white, I wonder if airlines will go to the trouble of painting wings and lower surfaces grey/silver to break up the all white look.

Braniff in the 1960's had the wings painted white but that effect was offset by the all color fuselage.

Also isn't all this paint going to add a lot of weight?

AvObserver · Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:22 pm

"Looks familiar, like another plane I've seen, like a 757."

I think you may need glasses Big grin

, the 757 nose is a lot more rounded. It does remind me of the noses of concepts for 'wasp-waisted' transonic airliners studied over 30 years ago and featured in articles in Aviation Week and Popular Science. Sleek and modern, indeed! bigthumbsup

transswede · Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:24 pm

I have to say that the 787 nose looks great... And I agree that it resembles the Caravelle.

And thanks to the comparison pictures that Lemonsoda posted, we can see that the passenger windows will be slightly larger, but not by much...

777wt · Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:48 pm

This is what the 787 nose overlayed to the 737 nose. With the door opening matching and the pax windows close to the 737's, it shows the difference in the shape. But the 787 size may be larger in real life.

Jet-lagged · Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:58 pm

Quoting 777WT (Reply 91):
Some drunk cowboy or wannabe shoots at them for target practice.

Hmm, I suppose you are right. Personally, I wouldn't call them a 'cowboy'. Or a 'good ole boy' or 'some kid having fun'. I would refer to them as a violent sociopath, or a s***head. Or perhaps most appropriately, a 'criminal'.

SNATH · Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:28 pm

Quoting 777WT (Reply 95):

Great job on the image!

Does anyone know the height of the main body of the two planes (I couldn't find this information on Boeing's WWW site)? I wonder whether the B787 will be taller (which I assume it will be) and its door end up being larger.

Tony

dazeflight · Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:33 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 97):
Great job on the image!

Does anyone know the height of the main body of the two planes (I couldn't find this information on Boeing's WWW site)? I wonder whether the B787 will be taller (which I assume it will be) and its door end up being larger.

Well in the Randy Baseler Blog the diameter is said to be 19 feet. How does that compare to the diameter of the B767?

ciao
Daniel

dazeflight · Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:54 pm

Well, I have found the number of 5,03 m or 16,5 feet. So, if there is no significant difference in shape, the comparison should be more like this:

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