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Beaucaire
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Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:32 pm

Currently there are sheduled flights from the USA to FRA,DUS,HAM,MUC,TLX and STR.
Is there any chance to see services into HAJ or NUE ?
Companies like Delta or American might consider using ETOPS 757 wich would be the perfect plane for small,thin routes.The reason being that slots in places like MUC,TLX or FRA are becomming rarer and HAJ and NUE presenting the potential yield to fill a 757 type aircraft.
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hz747300
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:52 pm

I think it might work for smaller cities that have an LCC hub. Ko-umlat-ln (Cologne), or Hannover for sure. But it would have to be a smallish plane and I am not sure if the prices could be high enough to make the routes profitable. I know the EU has policies against subsidies on pan-European travel to airline service enticements, but what would their stand be on a community or city enticement for trans-Atlantic service?
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2travel2know
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:27 am

Before HAJ or NUE, we most likely may see flights from the US East Coast to CGN, SXF, Basle/Mulhouse/Freiburg.
The US airline most likely to ever fly those routes would be CO.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
EddieDude
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:48 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
Currently there are sheduled flights from the USA to FRA,DUS,HAM,MUC,TLX and STR

Which U.S. carrier flies to DUS?
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Beaucaire
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:03 am

DUS is served only through LTU airlines and LH ( Chikago )-true
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fraT
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:55 am

I don't think cities like HAJ or NUE will ever see nonstop service to the US. Both cities are way smaller and have less business demand than HAM and TXL. I hope that these two cities will keep their new services with CO and DL but even those flights only support the respective airlines' smallest equipment.

CGN or DUS is another story.
 
Avianca
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:20 am

Quoting FraT (Reply 5):
I don't think cities like HAJ or NUE will ever see nonstop service to the US. Both cities are way smaller and have less business demand than HAM and TXL.

I have to disagree, NUE has more business than Berlin (TXL), for example Siemens is very big, Addidas is near, also the big company Ina-Schäffler ist near from Nue, also the area of NUE isnt´t such small, the problem of NUE is that it´s to near from MUC and FRA, its just between the two big german hubs.

regards
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FlewGSW
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:39 am

AA For 2006:

No 757s to Europe over 8 hours fight time. (No agreement on crew rest seats for either Pilots or Flight Attendants.)

I think that leaves out all of Germany from either BOS or JFK with 757s for 2006.
 
Leskova
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:35 pm

Quoting FraT (Reply 5):
I don't think cities like HAJ or NUE will ever see nonstop service to the US. Both cities are way smaller and have less business demand than HAM and TXL.

You are aware that, because BWE is close to unusable for anything beyond a prop, that HAJ is the preferred airport for Volkswagen? That alone is one of the reasons HAJ got some extra flights over the years.

Not to forget that Lower Saxony has one of the largest IT Industries of the German states, it's the home of TUI (and what used to be Preussag), AWD has quite a massive presence in the city and several other large corporations are also quite present there.

HAJ could very well support transatlantic flights - it's main problem is the northern rival: HAM. With Hamburg being just over an hour away, it's simply unlikely that HAJ will get much of anything because, undoubtedly, the demand from HAM is much larger than it is from HAJ.

And with the ICE connection to Frankfurt, with a travelling time of around 2 hours to the airport here, Hannover - unfortunately for it's airport - simply has too many easy-to-reach alternatives (with, of course, the airport in Hamburg being everything but easy to reach, especially when not travelling by car) than to warrant own intercontinental flights.

Regards,
Frank
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Beaucaire
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:10 pm

Avianca has a point in stressing the economic importance of northern Bavaria and an ever increasing number of local companies adding international ( and USA ) subsidiaries.
GFK ( Gesellschaft für Konsumforschung),Leistritz,Leoni,Kaiser Aluminium etc. all have susidiaries in the USA.Nürnberger Messe is among the top ten in Europe as trade-fair center.To me NUE would be a viable destination regardless of MUC being only 120 miles away.
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fraT
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:34 pm

Beside the mentioned companies, NUE and HAJ still have less demand than HAM or TXL. Siemens also has some travel ex Berlin (not as much as ex MUC or NUE) and there are other big companies in Berlin.

As you guys are saying, both NUE and HAJ is too close to other airports. NUE has very good rail and road connections to MUC and FRA, HAJ has the same to HAM and FRA.

Only possibility would be a LH/Privatair All Business flights from NUE to North America but even that I don't see coming soon.
 
Glareskin
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:04 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 4):
DUS is served only through LTU airlines and LH ( Chikago )-true

So who is flying DUS - EWR?
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Beaucaire
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:11 pm

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 11):
So who is flying DUS - EWR?

Macht auch die LH....
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fraT
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:23 pm

The flight DUS-EWR is operated by a Privatair A319 (All business configuration) flying with LH flight numbers.
 
Glareskin
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:20 pm

Quoting FraT (Reply 13):
The flight DUS-EWR is operated by a Privatair A319

It's a mini jet! Is this non-stop? How about comfort inside? Isn't such an aircraft more sensitive to turbulence?
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
PanHAM
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:32 pm

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 14):

It's a mini jet! Is this non-stop? How about comfort inside? Isn't such an aircraft more sensitive to turbulence?

Very comfortable with about 50 seats all C class. It's an Airbus, not a Cessna.

I doubt very miuch that airports like NUE, HAJ or CGN will ever see much traffic to and from the US, escept that NUE has regular Military flights which also gets World, ATa and others intot hat field. As already mentioned, FRA/MUC are too close and offer a wider variety of destinations in the US.

From HAJ even the CO and DL flights from TXL are a choice, the ICE takes little more than an hour only to Berlin.
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HT
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:37 pm

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 14):
Quoting FraT (Reply 13):
The flight DUS-EWR is operated by a Privatair A319

It's a mini jet! Is this non-stop? How about comfort inside? Isn't such an aircraft more sensitive to turbulence?

Sofar I haven´t seen a extremely negative comment on Privat Air´s BBJ(2) or A319CJ op´s across the Atlantic.
See https://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/27924 for a TR in a BBJ.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
2travel2know
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:09 pm

My guess is that CGN eventually will get service to the US but after a US airline flies to DUS.
Maybe with a german LCC, Privatair for LH or CO out of EWR.

Doesn't Euroairport BSL qualify as a Smaller German City Airport? It serves Freiburg.
The problem with BSL is that it may be too close to ZRH.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
Glareskin
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 15):
It's an Airbus, not a Cessna.

According to the tripreport HT suggested it is a 737 which has the same comfortlevel as a Cessna!  Big grin

And really, if you read the report the service was perfect but the flight-time and noise level speak againts narrow bodies for long haul flight. Although I expect the A319 to be better on noise comfort.

And what about sensibility for turbulence?

Other question: why isn't Lufthansa able to fill the A340 DUS-EWR anymore? I know I would fly it on a regular base if it was available...
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
Leskova
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:39 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 15):
From HAJ even the CO and DL flights from TXL are a choice, the ICE takes little more than an hour only to Berlin.

Unfortunately, the time it takes to get from the train station to the airport almost negates any advantage TXL has over taking the ICE to FRA...

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 18):
Other question: why isn't Lufthansa able to fill the A340 DUS-EWR anymore?

They're probably making more money out of the PrivatAir option - I'm quite certain they could fill an A330 or A340 on that route, but that would include lots of discounted Y pax; there's not too much discounting going on on board of those ACJ/BBJ flights.

Regards,
Frank
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StevenUhl777
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:32 am

United certainly won't, as long as the alliance with LH continues, which I expect it to.

The way CO has been expanding, I wouldn't be suprised if they looked at LEJ or even Dresden (DRE) at some point in the future from EWR. Surprised they don't fly to STR like DL does.
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Leskova
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:41 am

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 20):
or even Dresden (DRE) at some point in the future from EWR

Just FYI: Dresden = DRS

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 20):
Surprised they don't fly to STR like DL does.

I guess the main reason for DL's flight to STR is the connection for DaimlerChrysler - their main (or only?) US plant is, if I'm not mistaken, in Alabama, so transitting through ATL makes sense.

CO to EWR would be a good addition, though the question remains whether CO would be able to get the premium pax onto their planes...
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sw733
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:09 am

Quoting FraT (Reply 5):
I don't think cities like HAJ or NUE will ever see nonstop service to the US

Just like Poland will never see Ryanair service?  pessimist 
 
HT
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:29 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 21):
guess the main reason for DL's flight to STR is the connection for DaimlerChrysler

AFAIK DaimlerChrysler has one (or more ?) A319CJ plying the Atlantic as a Corporate Shuttle; is the US-terminus DTW ?

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 17):
Doesn't Euroairport BSL qualify as a Smaller German City Airport? It serves Freiburg.
The problem with BSL is that it may be too close to ZRH.

A major pharmaceutical company based in Basle (Basel) is said (according to a recent thread on A.net) to having started its own C-Class service BSL to two points at the US-East Coast, too.
Those pax are lost from LX´s flights out of ZRH.

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 18):
According to the tripreport HT suggested it is a 737 which has the same comfortlevel as a Cessna!

And really, if you read the report the service was perfect but the flight-time and noise level speak againts narrow bodies for long haul flight

The possible noise was something that worried me too, but in a thread I started about it I was assured that nowadays noise-cancelling headsets were issued, thus reducing the noise levels considerable. PLUS the airframe of the BBJ is said to contain extra insulation against noise (when compared to a standard-B737NG).

-HT
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Glareskin
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:42 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 21):
I guess the main reason for DL's flight to STR is the connection for DaimlerChrysler - their main (or only?) US plant is, if I'm not mistaken, in Alabama, so transitting through ATL makes sense.

I think Daimler has a small plant in Detroit too, called Chrysler..... Big grin

Quoting HT (Reply 23):
I was assured that nowadays noise-cancelling headsets were issued, thus reducing the noise levels considerable.

And indeed, noise-canceling headphones reduce the noise level a lot, but the absolute level due to reduction will be lower in a more silent aircraft. And it is a fact that travelers are less fit when the where exposed to high noise-levels.
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:33 am

If you analyse the last month’s passenger figures from the federal stat’s office in Wiesbaden, you obtain following figures for USA only (without Canada )

NUE : 6700
HAJ : 6300
CGN : 3000
HAM : 13.000
DUS : 22.300
MUC : 46.000
FRA : 140.000

When you assume that about 9-12 % of passengers in MUC are from northern-Bavaria and arrive by car or train ( no connecting flight ) you can add about 5.500 passengers to NUE.
And in FRA about 5 % , you come at about 7.000 passengers from NUE area – makes a total of about 20.000 passengers/month .
HAJ will have a similar amount of passengers driving to HAM or Berlin,or “lose” them by direct train-ride to FRA without connection flight.
CGN is “losing” passengers to DUS –which is normal considering the proximity of the airports.
So the potential is above the figures published by the stat-office, which takes only passengers into account, that have a connecting flight to USA via X,Y,Z…….
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Glareskin
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RE: Any US Airlines To Serve Smaller German Cities?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:26 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 25):
HAJ will have a similar amount of passengers driving to HAM or Berlin

What about the figures (travellers to USA) from Berlin?
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...

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