Is It Illegal To Record Video On Flight?

ETStar · Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:32 am

Wondering if someone can tell me whether or not it is illegal to record videos in flight using a digital camera? Specifically those related to take off and landing?

GRZ-AIR · Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:39 am

Dont use electronic equipment during take off and landing, if the FA's could see you.

It is not allowed..but then again..what is allowed?

lincoln · Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:48 am

Generally, as far as I am aware it is not illegal to shoot video in flight, at least in North America, however... Take off and landing occur prior to and after (respectivey) you are permitted to operate electronic devices, including digital cameras and camcorders. Military installations domestic and foreign tend to be quite picky about what you can shoot, though...

Also, keep in mind, at least in the US "Federal law requires the compliance with lighted pasenger information signs and crew member instructions..." so if a FA tells you not to do it, even if it's not illegal, you would (conceiveably) be breaking the law by continuing to do it.

Lincoln

TheSonntag · Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:55 am

Well, I filmed the landing on THF with my Canon Powershot A95... I guess it is not allowed, but I didn't care. I know this attitude is questionable, but I really do not think that there is a real danger by using your digital camera. But, of course, rules are rules so they have to be followed.

The cabin attendands saw me, but they didnt say anything. I would have shut it off at once if they had said something. But if you take this logic, all takeoff and landing videos on flightlevel350.com would be illegal...

So I guess, but thats only my personal opinion, that this is a precautionary measure only. Lets be real: If a video camera could harm the navigation equipment, this equipment is really bad. I am no technician, but thats the way I see it.

Michael

[Edited 2005-09-12 01:08:22]

N62NA · Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:06 am

I think the prohibition during takeoff and landing also has something to do with if the aircraft comes to a very sudden stop or something like that. Conceivably, all those little digital cameras could become flying projectiles inside the cabin.

I must confess to being guilty of sneaking an video of a takeoff and landing every so often, though. Smile

qqflyboy · Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:38 am

As far as filming in flight, it is not illegal on AA, however, filming flight attendants is prohibited. You can video out the window all you want, but be careful of video inside the cabin... make a point to do it when flight attendants are not performing their duties in the aisle.

lincoln · Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:01 am

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 5):
on AA, however, filming flight attendants is prohibited

Not that I have a strong desire to film a flight attendant (and can certainly conceive of a few reasons why an airline would prohibit this) but do you have a reference? I did a quick search of aa.com and AA's Contract of Carriage... couldn't find anything related to the subject on either.

Lincoln

ETStar · Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:10 am

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 5):
As far as filming in flight, it is not illegal on AA, however, filming flight attendants is prohibited. You can video out the window all you want, but be careful of video inside the cabin... make a point to do it when flight attendants are not performing their duties in the aisle.

Is this related to people fantacising flight attendants or is it related to stealing operations-related secrets (ie efficient use of flight attendant hours etc.)? I recall that AA is quite anal about its image, and even once threatened this flight simulator website with a lawsuit if it did not remove AA painted aircraft etc that it had for download.

Curtisman · Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:44 am

I take my digital cam on most flights and film most takeoff and landings. I have never been told not to. F/A's have seen me filming and have never said anything. I have not seen anything written about this being illegal and I have not heard anything about it.

Happy filming!

ciccone · Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:04 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 6):
Not that I have a strong desire to film a flight attendant (and can certainly conceive of a few reasons why an airline would prohibit this) but do you have a reference? I did a quick search of aa.com and AA's Contract of Carriage... couldn't find anything related to the subject on either.

Lincoln

Taken from AA's website http://www.aa.com/content/travelInfo...ringFlight/onboardTechnology.jhtml

Use of still and video cameras, film or digital, is permitted only for recording personal events. Photography or video recording of airline personnel, equipment, or procedures is strictly prohibited.

bond007 · Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:02 pm

Quoting CurtisMan (Reply 8):
I take my digital cam on most flights and film most takeoff and landings. I have never been told not to. F/A's have seen me filming and have never said anything. I have not seen anything written about this being illegal and I have not heard anything about it.

Well, it's an electronic device...plain and simple....do you ever listen to the announcements???

Jimbo

lincoln · Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:05 pm

Quoting Ciccone (Reply 9):

Ahh, thanks. That satisfies my curiousity Smile

FlyingTexan · Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:00 pm

Quoting Ciccone (Reply 9):
Photography or video recording of airline personnel, equipment, or procedures is strictly prohibited.

AA Boeing 767 = airline equipment

So if I take a photo of an AA 767, that is prohibited?

Confused

crownvic · Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:14 pm

Bond007...It is your type of mentality that is killing the interest in the hobby. I guess you endorse the closing of every observation deck in the world too and the total banning of aviation photography! PLeeeeeeeeeze....

ACDC8 · Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:16 pm

Quoting Ciccone (Reply 9):
Use of still and video cameras, film or digital, is permitted only for recording personal events. Photography or video recording of airline personnel, equipment, or procedures is strictly prohibited.

Can they legally hold you accountable for that? Is it a federal law or just a company policy/request? It seems to me that it would be the same if I were to say that taking a picture of my car is strictly prohibited.

mandala499 · Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:19 pm

Photography or video recording of airline personnel, equipment, or procedures is strictly prohibited.

Does that mean U can't film the wing and the scratches on the window? Smile

The way I see it, airlines that are b1tchy about having photos of their equipments taken (crew is understandable) probably is scared of having their screw ups documented. Smile

Well, not all, but some are...

Mandala499

qqflyboy · Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:28 pm

Quoting ETStar (Reply 7):
Is this related to people fantacising flight attendants or is it related to stealing operations-related secrets (ie efficient use of flight attendant hours etc.)?

The policy regarding filming flight crews and procedures was developed after a very specific security related event.

ETStar · Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:26 pm

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 16):
The policy regarding filming flight crews and procedures was developed after a very specific security related event.

Which one? Care to elaborate?

Also, what happens if you end up recording an event that becomes public for whatever reason. Will AA come after you afterwards, say if you maket he video public, for good or bad reasons?

DH106 · Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:26 pm

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 10):
Well, it's an electronic device...plain and simple....do you ever listen to the announcements???

Well, so are most watches, pacemakers etc.
Why aren't these proscribed under the same rule ?

ourboeing · Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:20 pm

Photography and usage of Video Camera are strictly prohibited on all AI aircraft as well as inside and around all Indian airports. I don't know why.

OURBOEING

jacobin777 · Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:46 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 6):
but do you have a reference?

Quoting Ciccone (Reply 9):

Taken from AA's website http://www.aa.com/content/travelInfo...ringFlight/onboardTechnology.jhtml

Use of still and video cameras, film or digital, is permitted only for recording personal events. Photography or video recording of airline personnel, equipment, or procedures is strictly prohibited.

correct, and its also in the AA in flight magazine..I had discussed with with an AA F/A a few weeks ago on my LHR-JFK flight, and she told me it really depends on the F/A also.....while most F/A's don't mind..some do...and the one sitting in front of me told me that I couldn't use my camera for the ENTIRE flight, though she was wrong, I really didn't argue with her as I knew that I fly every couple of weeks anyway so it was no big deal for me...!

MyAviation.net photo:

Photo © Jacobin777

and it varies even with carriers as a few weeks ago, on my CDG-DXB route, I was told my an AF F/A to turn my camera off, but on my AF flight from LHR-CDG, the F/A's didn't mind one bit.

Quoting CurtisMan (Reply 8):
I take my digital cam on most flights and film most takeoff and landings. I have never been told not to. F/A's have seen me filming and have never said anything. I have not seen anything written about this being illegal and I have not heard anything about it.

see above.....I would have to say that 80% of F/A's don't mind, but fly enough and you'll get told to turn it off...

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 12):
So if I take a photo of an AA 767, that is prohibited?

no...not if you are on public property....

Quoting DH106 (Reply 18):

Well, so are most watches, pacemakers etc.
Why aren't these proscribed under the same rule ?

good question, we would have to know the FCC/FAA rules and regulations on those, and more important, how much of a radio signal they emit.!

Ryan h · Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:56 pm

On my flight to Perth with Virgin Blue a few months ago and my recent trip to England with Malaysia Airlines I took many photos and no one said anything

HAWK21M · Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:00 pm

Not out here Anymore.
regds
MEL

B742 · Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:37 pm

I don't think it's illegal, this summer I used my video camera on board Bangkok Airways (USM-BKK), Qatar Airways (LHR-DOH & DOH-BKK) and Thai Airways (BKK-LHR), no one seemed to mind!

The TG crew even had a little look! Smile

Hoping to upload them soon!

Rob! Smile

ourboeing · Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:40 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 22):
Not out here Anymore.
regds
MEL

Thats good to know. Next time I am down there, I would love to take some pictures of my hometown airport Smile

OURBOEING

Sabena332 · Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:43 pm

Quoting ETStar (Thread starter):
Is It Illegal To Record Video On Flight?

Actually isn't it allowed to use electronic equipment during take-off and landing, but apparently does nobody care.

Patrick

UN_B732 · Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:19 am

I believe that India allows it now, there's a slip you can print online in re: a modification to the law at non-military installations.

JMJAirways · Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:31 am

I filmed the landing from Jumpseat this summer and captain said nothing! So it is not dangerous!

Best regards

qqflyboy · Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:46 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 14):
Can they legally hold you accountable for that?

They can because you are required by federal law to, "obey all crew member instructions, posted placards and lighted signs." Now we know there are limits to this, but yes, they could enforce that policy. Most likely if it became an issue on the flight, the police at the destination airport would be called in and your film, digital media, whatever you were recording to, would be confiscated. But it is not likely to come to that.

Quoting DH106 (Reply 18):
Well, so are most watches, pacemakers etc.

The general rule is, if it has an on/off switch, it needs to be off.

Quoting ETStar (Reply 17):
Which one? Care to elaborate?

I would like to elaborate, but I honestly don't know if that is information I can share. I know that sounds silly. I was purposely vague in my original post and I apologize for that.

manchesteruk · Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:05 am

i flew thomas cook to tenerife the f/a`s said you cant film take off because they like everything to be secure, as if yu would let go, i got the impression its for safety reasons, i cant see it interfering with systems because we have shows like airline,which film inflight

satx · Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 28):
I would like to elaborate, but I honestly don't know if that is information I can share.

They (various authorities) have found tapes from people that apparently appeared to be recording security procedures in airports and other public buildings. However, I have not personally seen any of the tapes broadcast, so who knows if this was what they were really doing. In any case, it's no secret. There have been several news stories about this before the 'never photograph airport security employees and/or procedures' regulation went into effect in the US. Do a search on your favorite news site to find out more.

bond007 · Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:45 am

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 13):
Bond007...It is your type of mentality that is killing the interest in the hobby. I guess you endorse the closing of every observation deck in the world too and the total banning of aviation photography! PLeeeeeeeeeze....

PLEASE What the heck are you talking about. This really isn't rocket science and really doesn't require 30 posts about whether pacemakers are included or not!!!!

FAA regulations clearly state that you must switch off any electronic devices during takeoff and landing .... how does this equate to me wanting every observation deck in the world closed????

As for pacemakers....give it a rest ... there are such things as 'exceptions' to this rule, but electronic cameras are obviously not one of them, unless it's gonna kill you if you turn it off.

It's a simple answer .... in the USA you cannot do it during takeoff/landing. Whether 10,000 of you HAVE done it, is irrelevant.

Jimbo

bond007 · Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:56 am

Quoting DH106 (Reply 18):
Well, so are most watches, pacemakers etc.
Why aren't these proscribed under the same rule ?

Sec. 121.306 Portable electronic devices.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person
may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft
allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any U.S.-
registered civil aircraft operating under this part.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to--
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119
certificate holder has determined will not cause interference with the
navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be
used.
(c) The determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section
shall be made by that part 119 certificate holder

Jimbo

[Edited 2005-09-12 21:01:35]

A3204eva · Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:08 am

It's not illegal to record any part of the flight, and it does NOT do anything to the a/c systems! They don't want you to use them because of safety reasons which I won't go into here. The only thing that could mess with the systems are mobile phones, but nothing has been proved.

Scott

lowrider · Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:17 am

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 13):
Bond007...It is your type of mentality that is killing the interest in the hobby. I guess you endorse the closing of every observation deck in the world too and the total banning of aviation photography! PLeeeeeeeeeze....

Um, how are observation decks related to on board photography? Just because 007 is in favor of following crew member instructions and rules does mean he has any problem with aviation photography.

Quoting DH106 (Reply 18):
Well, so are most watches, pacemakers etc.
Why aren't these proscribed under the same rule ?

Folks, the operation of portable electronic devices is a topic that has been done to death. Do a seach.

1. Is a video/digital camera an electronic device? Yes

2. Is the use of electronic devices limited during flight and prohibited during take off and landing? Yes

3. Are you allowed to use a video/digital camera during take off and landing?

bond007 · Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:23 am

Quoting A3204eva (Reply 33):
It's not illegal to record any part of the flight,

Is anybody listening here ...????

A video camera is an electronice device ...period...DO NOT USE during takeoff and landing .... is it that difficult ??

Quoting A3204eva (Reply 33):
The only thing that could mess with the systems are mobile phones, but nothing has been proved.

That's a whole different thread... we're talking about regulations here, not what might or not actually cause a problem.

Jimbo

GUAMVICE · Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:05 am

It's amazing to see how anal people get when discussing a topic...especially in the A.net forum. I know there are procedures to follow, but hey, we wouldn't have some excellent photos on A.net were it not for those that take them...even if it means breaking a few the rules...

I say, if you have a camera and can perceive the opportunity to take pics w/out getting caught, then go for it...besides, aren't the FAs in their jumpseats during takeoff and landing...and if you aren't near them, go for it hehe...

Bran

YULWinterSkies · Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:36 am

Quoting A3204eva (Reply 33):
The only thing that could mess with the systems are mobile phones, but nothing has been proved.

Whatever they could mess up or not the navigation equipment, they can be somehow detected. I was flying a couple years ago (BA) and after about 20 min at cruise altitude -and only then-, the f/a made an announcement about a cellphone left on, asking people to check theirs. It turned out that a pax had indeed left his cellphone on -unintentionnally I guess, as he was feeling so sorry when he was told to turn it off-.

aviatortj · Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:12 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 35):
A video camera is an electronice device ...period...DO NOT USE during takeoff and landing .... is it that difficult ??

I think he is trying to say "DO NOT GET CAUGHT USING during takeoff and landing." Wink

ARCJET · Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:13 am

I filmed the arrival from my window seat on a ACA J41 from BTV to IAD in July 1999 and seating behind me was the Station Manager from BTV who made it a point to tell me in a very loud tone of voice that what I did was against the regulations of his airline and the DOT!! I once filmed the landings from the cockpit of a C-17 at about 11 different airports in Europe and Asia as a request from the crew and the plane never responded in anyway to my Sony 8mm camcorder, and it was quite a thrill to be able to film the landings for the aircraft commander, but I was part of the crew on that particular mission and they needed the footage for training. I no longer film landings or takeoffs from commerical flights and occasionly may just take photos with my digital camera of the inside but only during cruise altitude.

bond007 · Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:43 am

Quoting GuamVICE (Reply 36):
It's amazing to see how anal people get when discussing a topic...especially in the A.net forum. I know there are procedures to follow, but hey, we wouldn't have some excellent photos on A.net were it not for those that take them...even if it means breaking a few the rules...

I say, if you have a camera and can perceive the opportunity to take pics w/out getting caught, then go for it...besides, aren't the FAs in their jumpseats during takeoff and landing...and if you aren't near them, go for it hehe...

Well, again it's not anal, it's very simple....the question:

Quoting ETStar (Thread starter):
Wondering if someone can tell me whether or not it is illegal to record videos in flight using a digital camera? Specifically those related to take off and landing?

The answer: During take off and landing .. it IS illegal.

What's anal is everyone arguing whether it's right or wrong, when it's clearly against FAA regulations, and a lot of you are proposing it's OK as long as you don't get caught.

Totally irresponsible!

Jimbo

lorm · Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:44 am

There are so many DVD and VHS videos you can buy filmed from airliners, if it were really something to worry there would be more than a few crashes blamed on video cameras. A lot of them are filmed by the pilots and jumpseaters themselves. It's more to do with airline policy and less to do with fear of EMF/RFI.

Most of the video cameras are CE, and FCC (Usually Part 15) certified and sometimes even UL rated (UL has many different certifications also). Radio receivers like police (airband) scanners, cellphones, and FM/AM radios are rarely certified (like video capture devices are) should not be used in flight.

I know for a fact that most scanners and receivers do have "birdie" frequencies. This means they emit a very small amount of noise (or signal) generated internally, in which various frequencies are unable to be squelched out and scanned. If you tune into one of the many "birdie" frequencies you will hear un-attenuable static, and cause the receiver to be stuck on that frequency if you put them on scanning lists. Whether or not they would actually cause interference with aircraft systems is questionable.

-LorM

bond007 · Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:46 am

Quoting LorM (Reply 41):
if it were really something to worry there

You mean apart from it being a federal offense Yeah sure

Jimbo

lorm · Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:47 am

If you actually think it's convictable go ahead, by all means grab a lawyer and buy some of these DVDs and VHS videos and bring these people to court.

wdleiser · Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:50 am

Take a picture of an AA 767 and try to make money off of it without AA's permission = Illegal. Such as with Flight Simulator.... Ultimate Traffic (provides almost all the airlines in the world with updated flight plans and aircraft and models) could not use AA's logo on aircraft. So what they did was... include the flightplans, then have crappy paints that vaguely resembled AA... then gave you a link to download free aircraft repaints of AA ai Aircraft.

bond007 · Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:53 am

Quoting LorM (Reply 43):
If you actually think it's convictable go ahead, by all means grab a lawyer and buy some of these DVDs and VHS videos and bring these people to court.

Why??

First of all, if the equipment is approved (and most of the DVDs/videos are shot from the jumpseat, not through the scratched window of 12F), then it isn't a problem.

I wasn't arguing whether it was 'convictable' or not (and for sure it is, whether anybody has been actually convicted). Just answering the initial question.

Jimbo

lorm · Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:59 am

Do it in this U.S. and you do it at your own risk. Big grin

Yes, 90% of the DVD/VHS videos are filmed outside of the U.S.

Lufthansa747 · Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:04 am

I have once been stopped using my digital camera by Asiana (South Korea). Doesn't surprise me at all as they seem to like to copy everything American.

Thankfully you can take photos of pretty much whatever you want on Thai and Orient Thai - most often the crews offer to take photos of you as well. This was especially nice as I was on the first flight on Thai A340-541 - a few pics in the empty Royal Silk Cabin.

EI101 · Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:07 am

By far the most restrictive airline Ive found in Europe regarding photography while in flight is Ryanair. On at least 4 occasions I have attempted to take still pictures during cruise out the window on Ryanair aircraft, and on each occasion I have been immediately approached by a flight attendant and told that the device must be switched off for the entire duration of the flight. I own an ordinary battery powered SLR camera. No question of video here.

There's a phrase in their pre-flight briefing where they say 'on the advice of the Irish Aviation Authority' , electronic devices must be switched off blah, blah. If this is true its a very restrictive reading of the rules, as EI never seem to mind photos or video. Or has it anything to do with concerns about older equipment in their 732 aircraft?

Then again, things could be worse. On approach to Monastir airport the NouvelAir captain reminded us that photography at any Tunisian airport or of any aircraft is not permitted and that a heavy prison sentence awaited all who did.

Contrast this to VirginBlue, whose f/o suggested pretakeoff on the intercom that anyone seated on the right side of the airplane could get some nice sunset pictures over Brisbane!

KarlB737 · Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:13 am

Interesting Question - A Site Where Thats All They Do:

http://www.flightlevel350.com

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