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laca773
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How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:10 am

Hi everyone,

How is SQ doing on it's LAX-SIN-LAX route that they've been flying for over a year? Loads? Inflight service? Are they going to continue flying the 345 or switch the to the 772ER?

Thanks for your help, guys and gals.

LACA773
 
kaitak744
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:29 am

They are only switching to one of the 777-200ERs temporarily because the A340-500s need C-checks or something.
 
N1120A
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:35 am

Quoting LACA773 (Thread starter):
How is SQ doing on it's LAX-SIN-LAX route that they've been flying for over a year? Loads? Inflight service? Are they going to continue flying the 345 or switch the to the 772ER?

They aren't making huge money because of the low density and high CASM, but it is a prestige route

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 1):
They are only switching to one of the 777-200ERs temporarily because the A340-500s need C-checks or something.

The 772ERs are because of heavy MX checks on the A345s and only go non-stop eastbound. They do, however, have a much better CASM
 
kaitak744
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:47 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
The 772ERs are because of heavy MX checks on the A345s and only go non-stop eastbound. They do, however, have a much better CASM

Yea, you are probably right. I knew it was some sort of a check. By the way, forgive my lack of knowledge, but what's CASM?
 
AeroWesty
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:53 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 3):
what's CASM?

Cost per Available Seat Mile
 
MarshalN
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
They aren't making huge money because of the low density and high CASM, but it is a prestige route

Do you know this as a fact or is this a speculation?
 
N1120A
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:24 pm

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 5):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
They aren't making huge money because of the low density and high CASM, but it is a prestige route

Do you know this as a fact or is this a speculation?

Widebodyphotog did an excellent analysis of the financial benefits for SQ of using the 772ER and stopping on the way back to SIN over the A345 service
 
roseflyer
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:40 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
They aren't making huge money because of the low density and high CASM, but it is a prestige route

It is a very high CASM and low density route for sure, but what are the all so important yields doing? It is possible to have high CASM and low density routes that still work like most of the Privatair 737 and A319 flights accross the Atlantic. There are a lot of Raffles Class seats on the A345, which could still make the route profitable. However I have noticed through unscientific research that LAX-SIN is often cheaper in Raffles class than EWR-SIN by often a significant amount. I don't know if there is any correlation here though to profitability of either of the routes.
 
dcflyer9
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:50 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 7):
Widebodyphotog did an excellent analysis of the financial benefits for SQ of using the 772ER and stopping on the way back to SIN over the A345 service

Yeah, but having flown in the A345 it is a completely different level of comfort in economy compared to a 777. Not to mention much quieter as well which makes a difference on a 16 hour flight.
 
N1120A
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:08 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 7):
It is a very high CASM and low density route for sure, but what are the all so important yields doing? It is possible to have high CASM and low density routes that still work like most of the Privatair 737 and A319 flights accross the Atlantic. There are a lot of Raffles Class seats on the A345, which could still make the route profitable. However I have noticed through unscientific research that LAX-SIN is often cheaper in Raffles class than EWR-SIN by often a significant amount. I don't know if there is any correlation here though to profitability of either of the routes.

Remember, yield is a function not just of ticket price, but also the cost to carry that person. If your CASM is 10 cents and your RASM is 50 cents, that is better than if your CASM is 50 cents and your RASM is 70 cents. The Privatair BBJ/A319LR flights are pure business class flights running at 49 seats on planes with very low trip costs. The SQ A345s run 64 C class and 117 Exec. Y seats over flights that are more than twice as long, in an aircraft that has much, much higher trip costs and that is at the complete edge of its design range. In fact, SQ exceeds its range on the EWR flights, which is why they have such a light configuration and carry so little, if any cargo. Also remember, SQ isn't selling a single $10-12,000 F class ticket on these flights, because they cannot handle the weight of the F class seats, so they can only collect a Business premium. Essentially, the CASM is so high, and alternative (cargo) revenue so low that it is impossible to bring in enough in ticket sales to offset the problem.

Quoting Dcflyer9 (Reply 8):
Not to mention much quieter as well which makes a difference on a 16 hour flight.

The difference between an A340 and a 777 in noise is not all that noticable

Quoting Dcflyer9 (Reply 8):
Yeah, but having flown in the A345 it is a completely different level of comfort in economy compared to a 777.

Um, the reason for that is SQ put in that Executive Economy because they could not load any more seats into an aircraft already taking severe weight restrictions and so they could justify charging more to try and eek a yield out of it.
 
laca773
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:36 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):

Isn't it possible for SQ to have like a six seat P cabin? How are the loads on the this flight? Raffles and Executive? Is the even better than their other transpacific flights they offer even without the P cabin?

LACA773
 
jacobin777
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:49 pm

Quoting Dcflyer9 (Reply 8):
Yeah, but having flown in the A345 it is a completely different level of comfort in economy compared to a 777. Not to mention much quieter as well which makes a difference on a 16 hour flight.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
The difference between an A340 and a 777 in noise is not all that noticable

 thumbsup 

Having flown on EK's A345 and BA/AA/UA/EK 777's.....there is NO comparison between the 777 and the A345...the 777 has a much more "roomier" feel to it..of course, cabin layout is dictated by a carrier, but the overall "spaciousness" is not comparable..

I agree with the noise....I doubt even 1% of the traveling pax have a clue..they want their AVOD/entertainment system..plus for me...its called

"noise cancellation headphones"  bigthumbsup 
 
roseflyer
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:13 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
The SQ A345s run 64 C class and 117 Exec. Y seats over flights that are more than twice as long, in an aircraft that has much, much higher trip costs and that is at the complete edge of its design range.

Yes everything you said is true, but it is still possible that they are earning money on their ultra long haul flights. Even though the cabin is smaller, are the yields and load factor adequate to offset the extremely high price of operating this route? I don't think any of us are privy to that knowledge, however you can't make a statement saying that it is not profitable with only circumstantial evidence that indicates that they need to charge more per seat in order to get a profit. I am curious as to whether they see enough demand for the nonstops in order to charge a premium for them.
 
WINGS
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:37 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
The difference between an A340 and a 777 in noise is not all that noticable

Man you should get your ears cleaned out.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):
I agree with the noise....I doubt even 1% of the traveling pax have a clue.

Well luckily not all passengers are that narrow minded. Many traveling passengers do notice those small details.

Regards,
Wings
 
Pope
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:42 pm

Does anyone have objective data on the difference in noise of these two aircraft? If so, please post or link us to it.
 
roseflyer
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:57 pm

Quoting Pope (Reply 14):
Does anyone have objective data on the difference in noise of these two aircraft? If so, please post or link us to it.

I don't have any data that I can acutally post here, but I work for the company that designs the pressurization system for some Airbus and Boeing planes. The key noise difference between the 777 and A340 noise difference is the environmental control system. The noise is far lower with the new system on the A330/340, which makes the overall plane quieter. I can't give you any specific decibel information, but it is true. You hear the key difference when the engines are at a low power setting and the airplane is flying (or taxiing) at a low speed. At cruise speed the external wind noise is actually the loudest noise source in most of the cabin for newer airplanes (in fact contrary to popular Anet believe, the A320 is quieter in cruise than an MD80 in the front because of the wind noise differences). However while the plane is taxing or on final approach, the cabin ventilation system is often the loudest part. So this is where you hear the A340 vs 777 noise difference. However I don't know what or if there is a difference while at cruise in the noise volume.
 
WINGS
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:05 pm

According to Airbus website this is how they managed to achieve this,

.quiet: The A330/A340 Family is known for having the “quietest cabin in the sky”. When the ultra-long range A340-600 arrived, with more powerful engines than earlier versions, the challenge of how to maintain the peace in the cabin was solved innovatively: by inserting shock-mounts behind every interior panel, an industry first.

Regards,
Wings
 
singaporegirl
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:10 pm

Quoting Pope (Reply 14):
Does anyone have objective data on the difference in noise of these two aircraft?

well i fly both the a345 and b777 regularly, and for me personally the a345 is much quieter. i especially appreciate the quietness during my break time, i could actually fall asleep on the crew bunk because the a/c is much quieter.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:35 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
They aren't making huge money because of the low density and high CASM, but it is a prestige route

It and the EWR run have both had pretty mediocre load factors since the routes' inceptions.
 
laca773
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:39 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):

MaverickM11, When you say "mediocre" do you mean that load factors are below 80%?

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 17):

Singaporegirl, how is the inflight service in comparission to your other transpacific flights? How many meals are served etc? I hear they no longer hand out amentity kits in Raffles? Is that true?

LACA773
 
PhilSquares
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:08 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
It and the EWR run have both had pretty mediocre load factors since the routes' inceptions.

Maverick, I don't know where you're getting your information, but I'd consider another source.

Load factors are approaching 100% for Thursday-Monday. Mid week it's lower but well above 70%. The premium cabins typically have a very long wait list.
 
jacobin777
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:26 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 13):
Well luckily not all passengers are that narrow minded. Many traveling passengers do notice those small details.

its not about being "narrow minded"...it about not knowing....naive

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 17):
well i fly both the a345 and b777 regularly, and for me personally the a345 is much quieter. i especially appreciate the quietness during my break time, i could actually fall asleep on the crew bunk because the a/c is much quieter.

Singaporegirl....I think it has more do to wit the fact you are more familiar with the aircrafts and your are more attuned to these sort of subtleties...!!

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 15):
At cruise speed the external wind noise is actually the loudest noise source in most of the cabin for newer airplanes

which proves the point......during takeoffs/landing and general taxiing, most aren't sleeping and getting busy for a long flight...its during the flight which is most important...
 
flying-b773
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:44 am

SQ has definitely done by introducing the non stop SINLAX on the A345. Loads on the A345 is very good most of the time, in fact it is as popular as the SINEWR flight.

SQ12/30 continues to do well due to 5th freedom and still O&D is strong on the route itself.

When it was first introduced I was wondering if the route works because SQ already offers 2 X 1 stop daily and the fare for the non stop aint cheap either.
Yet as months past, Overbooked C class n Y class still amazed me.

Try the A345, and feel the difference. SQ wont do something stupid, afterall they are a profit minded organization.

Good Day!
Regards,
 
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Ncfc99
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:50 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
The difference between an A340 and a 777 in noise is not all that noticable

I have flown EK versions of both planes, the A340 was alot quieter than the B777
 
gigneil
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:55 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
They aren't making huge money because of the low density and high CASM, but it is a prestige route

You have absolutely no idea what they're making. Period.

Widebodyphotog's analysis is well and good, but its not actually including any Singapore specific information.

N
 
WINGS
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:06 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21):

Singaporegirl....I think it has more do to wit the fact you are more familiar with the aircrafts and your are more attuned to these sort of subtleties...!!

Ok Jacobin777,
Even after a very respectable member sharing her views regarding cabin noise between the A340 and B777 family. Which she works on both day in and day out, you are still try to convince us all that she must be confused one.

Now what were you saying about..... NAIVE?

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21):
its not about being "narrow minded"...it about not knowing....naive

Yeah right. Convince your self of that one.

Regards,
Wings
 
N1120A
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:51 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 12):
it is still possible that they are earning money on their ultra long haul flights.

I didn't say they were not making any money, I said they were not making the big profits they do on other routes

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 12):
yields and load factor adequate to offset the extremely high price of operating this route?

Again, the problem is the low density

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 12):
however you can't make a statement saying that it is not profitable

Like I said, I didn't say it is nor profitable, just not as profitable as it would be in the aircraft was more capable

Quoting Pope (Reply 14):
Does anyone have objective data on the difference in noise of these two aircraft?

The A340's are objectviely quieter than the 777's

Quoting WINGS (Reply 16):
The A330/A340 Family is known for having the “quietest cabin in the sky”.

The A340 family is specifically

Quoting WINGS (Reply 16):
When the ultra-long range A340-600 arrived

Ultra-long range? Its range is not much more than products that already existed. The A345 and 772LR are ultra-long range, the A346/773ER are long range
 
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LAXintl
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:55 am

As far as loads go, in 2004, LAX-SIN had an average year around load factor of 67%, while EWR-SIN had 62% for the half year which the flight was operated.

I know the 2005 numbers are a bit higher, and generally inline with Singapore's other North America flights.

On the revenue side, I would presume the flights actually do alright and breakeven as they do have a high percentage of premium seats to help offset the high CASM of this unique operation.
 
PyroGX41487
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:56 am

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 17):
well i fly both the a345 and b777 regularly, and for me personally the a345 is much quieter. i especially appreciate the quietness during my break time, i could actually fall asleep on the crew bunk because the a/c is much quieter.

There you have it from a SIA employee. BTW, we're talking about SIN-LAX, not SIN-EWR. Obviously there will be a higher CASM on SIN-EWR because no A/C, even the 772LR can make SIN-EWR without some kind of spiked CASM. If the 772LR has, I say prove it. The thing needs two extra fuel tanks to boost its range and that takes up a great deal of the aft cargo bay. Just how profitable would it be?

SIN-LAX is well within a normal A345 range (8,500 nm, since SIN-LAX is about 7,600nm). Heavy payload restrictions will not be that much. I mean, the 7,780 range of a 772ER can make it, how restricted would a 772ER be? That, and I'd like to remind you that there are so many people who fly ULH. Its a market niche and is not really always going to be uber profitable. This is not like JFK-LHR. How many of you actually would sit on a plane for 18 hrs?
 
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zeke
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:12 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 1):
They are only switching to one of the 777-200ERs temporarily because the A340-500s need C-checks or something.

I understand one has gone AOG due to a heavy landing, nothing to do with schedule maintenance.
 
WINGS
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:15 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 26):
The A340 family is specifically



Quoting N1120A (Reply 26):
Ultra-long range? Its range is not much more than products that already existed. The A345 and 772LR are ultra-long range, the A346/773ER are long range

If you care to scroll back up to my post you will notice that those statements came from the Airbus Website.

Regards,
Wings
 
roseflyer
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:23 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 26):
Like I said, I didn't say it is nor profitable, just not as profitable as it would be in the aircraft was more capable

Thanks for clarifying your point. A plane with more payload would definitely make more of a profit since the A345 can't carry much if any cargo, which is a big loss of potential revenue. However the A345 should be capable of profitably making the route. I think saying that it is impossible to bring in enough in ticket sales to offset the problem of having a high CASM is a little extreme. I believe that the route still can be successful and be earning as much as other routes that have more competition.

[Edited 2005-09-23 19:36:30]
 
georgiaame
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:38 am

RE the noise level. I have flown the SQ 345 on the Los Angeles run, and found it significantly louder than the 343, surprisingly so. I rarely use my noise canceling headsets on a 343 flight while flying economy, and never need them up front. I was in Economy Exec, just in front of the rear door, still over the wing, and it was loud, and the NCHs were a godsend for 15 hours. I strolled up front into Raffles, and it was still rather noisy. That said, having flown AirFrance 343 and 777 out of Atlanta to Paris, in economy, business, and first, it doesn't matter where you sit, the 777 is extremely loud, much more so than a 345. And I never fly 777 when I can go Airbus 343, simply for the noise factor. As for one cabin being more spacious than the other, 15 minutes into a flight you don't notice any difference at all. You do notice noise, friendliness of the staff, low back pain, and food quality.

My subjective rather than objective findings.
 
zvezda
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:45 am

Quoting PyroGX41487 (Reply 28):
If the 772LR has, I say prove it. The thing needs two extra fuel tanks to boost its range and that takes up a great deal of the aft cargo bay.

The B777-200LR can be ordered with up to 3 optional cargo-bay fuel tanks. However, the B777-200LR can operate EWR-SIN without any optional fuel tanks installed. Does anyone know whether SQ's RFP calls for an optional fuel tank?
 
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keesje
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:55 am

Quoting PyroGX41487 (Reply 28):
How many of you actually would sit on a plane for 18 hrs?

Singaporegirl(s), a few holywood blockbusters, a big seat and the catering compensate a lot in Raffles. Do they still have "Book the Cook"?
 
jacobin777
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Rou

Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:39 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 25):
Ok Jacobin777,
Even after a very respectable member sharing her views regarding cabin noise between the A340 and B777 family. Which she works on both day in and day out, you are still try to convince us all that she must be confused one.

....and when did I say she was wrong? ..I said she's more aware of her environment, and with her experience, she knows the difference between the noise levels of the 777 and 345 where as most pax don't have a clue.....Don't put words in my mouth.  talktothehand 

Quoting WINGS (Reply 25):
Yeah right. Convince your self of that one.

I don't need to.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:46 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 15):
At cruise speed the external wind noise is actually the loudest noise source in most of the cabin for newer airplanes

And this fact is one of the reasons the 777 is noisier. Its higher cruise speed (0.84M) creates more boundary layer noise than the A343 at 0.81M or the A345/6 at 0.825M.

Remember that the boundary layer energy is related to the square of the velocity, so these differences are more significant than they might appear.

Airbus has done a good job of taking a negative (slower) and turning it into a positive (quieter). And they have made a good effort at quieting the environmental control system.
 
B744F
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:50 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 16):
The A330/A340 Family is known for having the “quietest cabin in the sky

That's because the triple 7 has something called powerful engines that make more noise!
 
laca773
Topic Author
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:39 am

Other than the comparing the engine noise of the 345 vs 772, how is the service on this flight? Meals? Inflight amentities etc in comparison to their other transpacific flight i.e., LAX-NRT, LAX-TPE, SFO-HKG?

LACA773
 
PHXinterrupted
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:02 am

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 17):
Quoting Pope (Reply 14):
Does anyone have objective data on the difference in noise of these two aircraft?

well i fly both the a345 and b777 regularly, and for me personally the a345 is much quieter. i especially appreciate the quietness during my break time, i could actually fall asleep on the crew bunk because the a/c is much quieter.

I haven't noticed a considerable difference in either aircraft.
 
A360
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:11 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 37):
That's because the triple 7 has something called powerful engines that make more noise!

Hum... let's see... the A345 has 4x53.000lb engines, which totals 212.000lb.

An average 772ER has 2x90.000lb engines, which totals 180.000lb...

Hum.... is it me, or is the 345 more powerfull(even though it's a quad!)?!

The 346HGW will have 4x60.000 engines, totaling 240.000lb of thrust! Would you care to point a more powerfull 777 version??.... no need to look, because there isn't! The 773ER has 2x115.000 engines, totaling 230.000 lb.


Obviously the power of the engines doesn't make the 340 better because of that....


I'm just sick of some clueless people here in airliners saying that the 340's don't have power... not the 340NG's for sure!
 
satx
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:18 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
The difference between an A340 and a 777 in noise is not all that noticable

Although I have not yet flown on an A345, I must say that the 777's I've flown have been the loudest aircraft I've ever experienced. This is fine for a short flight, but on an 8 - 14 hour leg it gets old real quick, especially when you can't sleep because of it.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 38):
Other than the comparing the engine noise of the 345 vs 772, how is the service on this flight? Meals? Inflight amentities etc in comparison to their other transpacific flight i.e.

You might want to check the trip reports forum.
 
An-225
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:54 am

I don't know how you guys find 777s loud. I've been on 13 777 segments, including 2 international (IAD-AMS and FRA-ORD) and 2 Hawaiian (LAX-HNL-LAX) and had absolutely no problems sleeping. If you find a 777 noisy, try flying on a Tu-154 (marvellous machine, by the way). That'll clear your ears!

Alex.
 
laca773
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:24 pm

Quoting SATX (Reply 41):

I have and still am looking for a trip report. Nothing as of yet. Thanks for the suggestion SATX.

LACA773
 
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CX777
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Rou

Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:03 pm

A360.....
BTW any idea on what would be the THRUST-to-WEIGHT ratio of 777 vs. 340??
Raj
 
GuyBetsy1
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:19 pm

Take it from one who has flown both the 777s and A345s (SQ & EK) and A346 (CX & LH) that the airbus aircrafts are significantly quieter front, middle and back of the engines.

SQ's loads are generally full in the premium cabin. So that speaks for itself in being 'successful'.

Yes you get all the bells and whistles in Raffles Class. SQ never stopped giving out washbags for the J class passengers over 8 years ago. You can still Book-The-Cook however.
 
jacobin777
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Rou

Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:26 pm

Quoting An-225 (Reply 42):
I don't know how you guys find 777s loud. I've been on 13 777 segments, including 2 international (IAD-AMS and FRA-ORD) and 2 Hawaiian (LAX-HNL-LAX) and had absolutely no problems sleeping. If you find a 777 noisy, try flying on a Tu-154 (marvellous machine, by the way). That'll clear your ears!

I've flown on countless 777 segments myself..and I don't see the problem either..but if want loud..fly in the back of a VC-10...thats loud!


I think another part of the reason is though the A346HGW/A345 have more total thrust, they are divided each by 2 engines on each side (with the 2nd engine being farther from the plane), and with the 777's having 90,000lbs thrust close to each window, the pax will obviously get more noise.
 
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zeke
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:34 pm

Quoting CX777 (Reply 44):
BTW any idea on what would be the THRUST-to-WEIGHT ratio of 777 vs. 340??

The 777 has to be higher, as it has to be able to climb on one engine after takeoff with 50% less thrust.

High thrust to weight ratio does not help you if you loose two engines on takeoff like one operator did at WMKK last year in a 777 just after takeoff.

Current 777 simulator profiles in Asia include a turnback after takeoff due to a 777 double engine failure on takeoff after the incident last year.
 
ikramerica
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:16 pm

Quoting A360 (Reply 40):
Hum... let's see... the A345 has 4x53.000lb engines, which totals 212.000lb.

An average 772ER has 2x90.000lb engines, which totals 180.000lb...

Hum.... is it me, or is the 345 more powerfull(even though it's a quad!)?!

The 346HGW will have 4x60.000 engines, totaling 240.000lb of thrust! Would you care to point a more powerfull 777 version??.... no need to look, because there isn't! The 773ER has 2x115.000 engines, totaling 230.000 lb.

A few problems:

It's the A343 that is really quieter due to it's underpowered cigars. The 345/346 LOST the engine noise advantage, and thus had to resort to some expensive panel mounting to try and dampen noise and vibration. Good for them, BTW, as B should do the same.

The 772ER can have more than 90k engines. Total thrust can be 187k. Still less, but not by as much.

But YES, four smaller engines should be quieter than 2 larger ones. That's part of the deal.

Thing is, slow a 772 down to 340 cruise speed, and you are likely to get a quieter plane.

I'm really interested in the A350, with two big engines and thinner interior wall panels to increase interior space, wonder how the noise is going to be on that.

Also interested in the 787 fuselage materials and how they change the dynamics of noise. Will it be louder, quieter, or different sounding or the same.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: How Is Singapore Doing On It's LAX-SIN-LAX Route?

Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:20 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 19):
MaverickM11, When you say "mediocre" do you mean that load factors are below 80%?

Last time I looked EWR was definitely the weaker of the two but both had loads under the 70s for the past twelve months. It's been a month since I've looked but I'll look again on Monday.

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