I just got back from LAX on my PHX-LAX route over the weekend when I noticed how terrible conditions are in the LAX termianal where WN is located. The boarding procedures by group A,B, and C caused many issues and annoyances throughout the terminal. As many of you know, the lines for the groups always begin early, usually about 40 min. prior to departure. As these lines began to form well ahead of boarding, they would spill out into the main terminal walkway and cause a lot of traffice issues, so I thought to myself, wouldn't this be a little dangerous if their was a sudden emergency, but not so much as dangerous, but so unethical of WN to compromise the terminal space 40 MINUTES prior to BOARDING of the A/C. While I know that WN is planning to integrate assigned seating, I think that it needs to happen a bit sooner.

Quoting Airbus3801 (Thread starter): The boarding procedures by group A,B, and C caused many issues and annoyances throughout the terminal.

Why? People know how WN boards, and are explained how it works over and over, so why should they have a problem?

Quoting Airbus3801 (Thread starter): As these lines began to form well ahead of boarding, they would spill out into the main terminal walkway and cause a lot of traffice issues

Having grown up in Los Angeles and flown WN countless times, I have never seen that, but still, that is the passengers' fault and the airport police should be dealing with it

Quoting Airbus3801 (Thread starter): but so unethical of WN to compromise the terminal space 40 MINUTES prior to BOARDING of the A/C.

They aren't compromizing anything. Besides, boarding starts 30 minutes prior to departure, so why shouldn't people be there 10 minutes early anyway. Many people live by the post-9/11 2 hour rule and don't know it has since gone back to the normal 1 hour rule on domestic flights, so they end up there way early

Quoting Airbus3801 (Thread starter): While I know that WN is planning to integrate assigned seating, I think that it needs to happen a bit sooner.

Why? I personally think WN should keep things the way they are. It is far less complicated, gets people to the airport on time and encourages online and kiosk check-in, which keeps costs down. Additionally, I always get the seat I want when I get to the airport on time.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1): Quoting Airbus3801 (Thread starter): but so unethical of WN to compromise the terminal space 40 MINUTES prior to BOARDING of the A/C. They aren't compromizing anything. Besides, boarding starts 30 minutes prior to departure, so why shouldn't people be there 10 minutes early anyway. Many people live by the post-9/11 2 hour rule and don't know it has since gone back to the normal 1 hour rule on domestic flights, so they end up there way early

N1120A -- I believe he is saying people line up 40 minutes prior to BOARDING, so actually it's more than an hour prior to departure.

I find WN's boarding procedures a bit annoying, but that's just me

Well why the heck didn't you fly HP?!

By the way, I just flew into BUR on Tuesday on WN and found nothing wrong with their boarding process, but also, my flights weren't full at all. Secondly, I was just at LAX on Friday and you know, LAX is so busy that there really is hardly any standing room anyway, I don't see how some harmless WN boarding lines are going to make any more difference than a regular mad dash to line up at the gate on any other airline.

Edit: Because I felt like it.  

[Edited 2005-09-26 07:42:50]

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1): Having grown up in Los Angeles and flown WN countless times, I have never seen that

How can you have never seen the lines?

I'm there almost every weekend and I see those lines all the time. Luckily I don't fly WN and don't have to stand with all the other WN cattle.

Once the HP opens the lounge again us HP/US flyers can wait for our flights in peace.

The only time I have ever seen lines at WN gates is during the christmas holidays. Thats traveling from MDW-CLE and back. Outside of holidays, no lines at all extending into the hallway.

[Edited 2005-09-26 08:03:17]

Airbus3801,
Just out of curiosity, which flight were you on? I was on 196 on Sunday night

Quoting Airbus3801 (Thread starter): While I know that WN is planning to integrate assigned seating,

I know that they have talked about it, but everyone that i know that works for WN said that it is no where close to becoming a reality. Boarding lines happen for every airline. I have seen the lines for WN at LAX but they are no worse the HOU, BWI, LAS, CLE, or any of the other cities that they serve.

I fly WN quite a bit to and from PHX to the midwest and everytime I fly people complain about the boarding procedure. To me it really doesn't matter since i'm going from point A to point B and low fares are the objective. I would love to see HP/US in TUL. OKC has done real well for them and always seems to be full.

The lines are mostly people like me who do not fly very often and fly longhaul flights when they do. An important subcatagory of the above is families that want to make sure sit together. For them, it is important to get a good seat. Such people usually check in early enough to get in the A boarding group anyway and so dont have to worry. Most of them don't know this, however, and get in line anyway. They also don't often know that you can check in on-line, and are afraid of being late, and so they arrive at the airport way early.

Most WN passengers are actually business travelers or other kinds of frequent fliers(yes, this is a statistical fact despite the stereotype - even MORE SO than other airlines). These people usually either savy enough check in online and get on an early group, or just don't care as much. They don't have the time to arrive early enough anyway. At most WN gates I've seen - this is born out. The teenagers, college students, and some families line up at the gate but they are a relatively small proportion of most flights. The majority of the passengers just sit and wait or arrive at the last minute. Just like any other airline. This means that there is a line but it does not come anywhere close to causing any sort of hazard.

There are exceptions, as noted above, for certain cities, routes and times.

Newer WN gates actually have seperate lines, clearly marked, for each boarding group. This cuts down on line length in two ways. It divides the line to make it smaller, and it graphically demonstrates the fact that your fate is determined more by your boarding group than your position in line.

It always helps to stay up and print out your boarding pass at 12:01 am so you get an "A' group, normally anywhere in "A" and you can get a decent seat on the plane.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4): I'm there almost every weekend and I see those lines all the time. Luckily I don't fly WN and don't have to stand with all the other WN cattle

And Thank you for this enligthning remark on people who fly LCCs.

I wish some one to have the decency to pay tribute to those millions of "cattle" who fly airlines (legacies or not) on a daily basis for business or pleasure contributing to the fortune (bad or good) of these companies instead of using these derogative, inflamatory and insulting remark attribute.

Just a question : if we are "cattle" , what are you ?

Quoting Airbus3801 (Thread starter): While I know that WN is planning to integrate assigned seating, I think that it needs to happen a bit sooner.

Did I miss the boat? Since when is WN thinking of assigining seats? As much as I hate the WN style seating it is the only way of sitting in the first row of an airliner without being rich or having reserved your seat 4 months ahead. I can stand in line for 45 minutes for that.

Quoting Airbus3801 (Thread starter): While I know that WN is planning to integrate assigned seating, I think that it needs to happen a bit sooner.

I "know" it's been looked at, and also "know" that there has been no such decision to assign seating.

Quoting Airbus3801 (Thread starter): As these lines began to form well ahead of boarding, they would spill out into the main terminal walkway and cause a lot of traffice issues, so I thought to myself, wouldn't this be a little dangerous if their was a sudden emergency, but not so much as dangerous, but so unethical of WN to compromise the terminal space 40 MINUTES prior to BOARDING of the A/C.

As you're mentioning "dangerous" in both the thread's topic line and in your post, I have to ask, what kind of possible "sudden emergency" do you envision that would make any lines associated with SWA's boarding process truly "dangerous" to people? I mean, there are people that detest the way we do it, and there are others (more, I think) that have come to accept that it's how we've historically done business over the last 34 years. That's fine, and you can't please everyone, but what is this big "threat" that you seem to see?

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 12): While I know that WN is planning to integrate assigned seating

OH NO, the best part of flying on a LCC is the charge for the seats, a few rugby tackles knocking over a few grandma's, gouging a few kid's eyeballs and the big grin to everyone else when you get the seat nearest the door  

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1): Many people live by the post-9/11 2 hour rule

correction, they are living by MY pre 9/11 rule! My post 9/11 rule was 3 hours !

Quoting Airbus3801 (Thread starter): I just got back from LAX on my PHX-LAX route over the weekend when I noticed how terrible conditions are in the LAX termianal where WN is located. The boarding procedures by group A,B, and C caused many issues and annoyances throughout the terminal. As many of you know, the lines for the groups always begin early, usually about 40 min. prior to departure. As these lines began to form well ahead of boarding, they would spill out into the main terminal walkway and cause a lot of traffice issues, so I thought to myself, wouldn't this be a little dangerous if their was a sudden emergency, but not so much as dangerous, but so unethical of WN to compromise the terminal space 40 MINUTES prior to BOARDING of the A/C. While I know that WN is planning to integrate assigned seating, I think that it needs to happen a bit sooner.

i've been on WN flights where there are actually six lines because of a late departure, two lines each for each boarding group for two flights at the same time. i'm not so sure that this is dangerous, but it sure as hell is annoying!

i am still trying to figure out for the life of my why and how not having assigned seats saves them money. the amount of time wasted in getting people to finally give in and take a middle seat, even after they've walked all the way to the back of the jet and then all the way up to the front again, seems to counter-act any advantage they would get by assigning seats and boarding back to front in an orderly way.

oh man i hate getting on a WN flight like nothing else...

The problem with WN at LAX is not WN procedures. It is that crappy out of date terminal. There is no way that that building was designed to handle anywhere near the load it has today. It should be the first one scrapped and replaced. The sooner the better.

WN is not going to change a system that works well for them. Sure, they investigate alternatives but that is just good business. I think any other boarding system will take more time, or at least more WN staff to man the gates.

Mike

Quoting Airbus3801 (Thread starter): While I know that WN is planning to integrate assigned seating, I think that it needs to happen a bit sooner.

Proof please!

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4): I'm there almost every weekend and I see those lines all the time. Luckily I don't fly WN and don't have to stand with all the other WN cattle.

It's like Casey Stengel used to say...nobody flies them...the lines are too long. here's something for you to try...it's great fun too...when your airline of choice starts boarding and you are lined up in the jetway as opposed to the terminal, let out a moo....haw haw haw.

Here's what irritates me......

There's always some adult (usually more than one) who pre-board and sit in the emergency exit rows.

If these people are in such poor physical condition they need to pre-board, they should not be qualified to assist in an emergency.

I've never seen anyone at WN do anything about it.

Quoting Airbus3801 (Thread starter): While I know that WN is planning to integrate assigned seating, I think that it needs to happen a bit sooner.

Where did you hear this? I doubt WN is thinking about this at all. Why incur that overhead? You want low fares? Then board like they do now.

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 10): It always helps to stay up and print out your boarding pass at 12:01 am so you get an "A' group, normally anywhere in "A" and you can get a decent seat on the plane.

Yep, exactly. My parents just flew ISP-LAS the other day. Though ISP is not the busiest airport they printed their boarding pass and boarding was much easier.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 12): As much as I hate the WN style seating it is the only way of sitting in the first row of an airliner without being rich

Fly on RJ's. I've sat in row one of CO-Ex ERJ's or even CRJ's on other airlines more times than I can count. And didn't have to pile in like "cattle," "gouge a kids eye's out," "rugby tackle grandma," and most importantly... didn't have to wrestle my roll-aboard into an overhead already full of other people's crap because they gate checked it. Not to mention on an ERJ you don't have a neighbor because you can sit in the A seats, and on ANY RJ you won't have the dreaded middle seat even if you show up just as they're about to close the flight.

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 10): It always helps to stay up and print out your boarding pass at 12:01 am so you get an "A' group, normally anywhere in "A" and you can get a decent seat on the plane.

Not any more...  

From Southwest.com:

Check In and Print Boarding Pass

Great News! Now you can check in online and print your boarding pass beginning 24 hours prior to your scheduled flight! That means no more waking up at midnight to get your boarding pass!

Quoting BUFjets (Reply 20): There's always some adult (usually more than one) who pre-board and sit in the emergency exit rows. If these people are in such poor physical condition they need to pre-board, they should not be qualified to assist in an emergency. I've never seen anyone at WN do anything about it.

No longer as well. Pre-boarders are now prohibited from sitting in the emergency exit rows.

Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 17): The problem with WN at LAX is not WN procedures. It is that crappy out of date terminal. There is no way that that building was designed to handle anywhere near the load it has today.

Thank you!

I was just through that terminal for the first time (through LAX for the first time, actually) and man, was it an ugly, overcrowded and outdated dump! Came off a UAX jet at the nice, modern Terminal 8 and hopped the shuttle bus to connect to a US red-eye... well, that bus apparently had a flux capacitor on it, because we warped right back into the early 1980s, right down to the ratty carpet, earth tones and fuzzy, faded monochrome flight information displays!

I flew WN once. It sucked. I will never fly it again and never have since. Besides, I dont think fares on legacy are that different. Though, I do give WN credit for opening up new city-pairs.

Here is my question: can someone (with some background, preferably WN) tell me more about the EXACT ways unassigned seating helps save costs? I can understand this process in the earlier days (with the stickers, etc.) but in a completely computerzied world, how does this make a difference?

Thanks,
A.

The Running of the Bulls seating process makes everyone board as quickly as possible.

If someone has an assigned seat that they know they want, they have no incentive to board the aircraft, take their seat and stow their carry-ons as quickly as they possibly can. So they can take their sweet time about it... and often do. Conversely, if you know you're stuck in the middle seat, why not wait until the very last minute to board the plane and be uncomfortable as bloody hell?

On WN, you've got an incentive to get on that flight ASAP - you don't want to get stuck in the middle, do you?

It saves minutes in turnaround, and minutes in turnaround is one of the small things that adds up to make WN a profitable and successful airline.

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 16): i am still trying to figure out for the life of my why and how not having assigned seats saves them money. the amount of time wasted in getting people to finally give in and take a middle seat, even after they've walked all the way to the back of the jet and then all the way up to the front again, seems to counter-act any advantage they would get by assigning seats and boarding back to front in an orderly way. oh man i hate getting on a WN flight like nothing else...

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 26): Here is my question: can someone (with some background, preferably WN) tell me more about the EXACT ways unassigned seating helps save costs? I can understand this process in the earlier days (with the stickers, etc.) but in a completely computerzied world, how does this make a difference?

I don't have a background, but I can tell you it's for two reasons. One, the computer system doesn't have that function setup. AFAIK, that is no big deal. It could easily be integrated.

How it does save money is that people are always on-time boarding. If I'm flying on say, US Airways, I know I have 15A, my prefered window seat. Or even if I have 11E, the dreaded middle seat, it doesn't matter if I get there early or not. Here, people are trying to get on the plane faster than others, which means the turnaround times are faster, which means the planes spend more time in the air.

And if you don't like the way they board, why are you flying them?

AAndrew

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 28): And if you don't like the way they board, why are you flying them?

I have an issue with WN's boarding process and I never fly them. The issue is that the cattle in that line up INEVEITABLY end up blocking the concourse. I need to get through that unwashed herd to get to the Admirals Club.   

Seriously, have some sanity in boarding.

That said, AS is almost as bad. They do the standard pre-board, FC, then elites, but then do a general boarding call. This too causes concourse-blocking lines as people don't want to be towards the end of the general boarding and be unable to stow their carry-ons because the bins are full.

On a recent SEA-LGB flight on an AS MD-80, as I was walking back to my exit row seat I stowed my carry-on in the bin above a row 4 or 5 rows forward of my seat. The FA scolded me and made me take the bag further back, saying, "if you put your bag there, then the people in that row won't be able to use that bin, make sense?"

I replied, "it only makes sense if you baord from back of the cabin forward rather than this cattle call". She smiled, agreed heartily that the boarding process is totally wrongheaded and suggested I wite to AS. PS: the bins over my row were paked to the gills and had to bring my bag BACK up to where I originally wanted to stow it. The FA was redfaced and apologetic.

I did write AS, and got an auto-generated response that obviously ignored the thrust of the issue.   

Besides the carry-on issue, this method of boarding inevitably means a longer turn-around as people in row 7 are boarding before those in row 20, and they row 20 people now have to wait in the aisle as the row 7 people block the aisle stowing their stuff, getting settled, etc.

Oh well. Lesson learned. Fly FC or deal with the zany boarding. At least most of the legacies board by sections (generaly rear of cabin to front).

Although, AA757First, given your nickname, you ought to be able to explain to us why they board exit row 10, window seat on the 757s in the last or next to last group. Y'all know that there is no underseat storage nor overhead bin at that seat and its occupant will need to stow any and all carry-ons in an overhead elsewhere on the plane.

Arrgh...I guess all the airlines have some moronic boarding procedures but WN is, IMHO, the worst as far as interfering with other travellers in the terminal.

[Edited 2005-09-26 23:52:09]

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 2): N1120A -- I believe he is saying people line up 40 minutes prior to BOARDING, so actually it's more than an hour prior to departure.

Yeah, and I have never seen that

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4): How can you have never seen the lines?

Easily. There are lines at security because of the design of the stairs leading up to the machines and the sterile concourse procedure that does nothing to enhance security

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4): Luckily I don't fly WN and don't have to stand with all the other WN cattle.

WN cattle huh? Perhaps you mean the rich cattlemen who fly the carrier all the time

Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 17): It is that crappy out of date terminal. There is no way that that building was designed to handle anywhere near the load it has today. It should be the first one scrapped and replaced.

Terminal 1 is one of the newest terminals at LAX. It was built for PSA and can definately handle the loads. The problem is the idiotic procedure of snaking people around to check their boarding passes then go up the stairs to security

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 16): oh man i hate getting on a WN flight like nothing else...

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 26): I flew WN once. It sucked. I will never fly it again and never have since. Besides, I dont think fares on legacy are that different. Though, I do give WN credit for opening up new city-pairs

Then don't fly them. While you fly AA or NW or someone else I'll fly on WN and enjoy low fares, good leg room, free soft drinks, free peanuts and snack packs on longer flights while you pay $3 for the same thing. And as far as the legacy fares, they aren't much different because they have to god forbid compete with WN.

DOWN WITH WN! NO MORE LINES! NO MORE LINES! DOWN WITH WN!

They board exit row 10 last on the 752's (9 on DL) because theoretically people sitting there block the entry door slowing the rest of the people down (This is generally BS, and I agree that bulkhead seats should board first since there is no floor stowage).

Song actually used to board front of the plane to back -- by zone. I don't know if they still do that, haven't flown song in a while. It was totally dumb, though.

As for not getting bulkhead unless you're rich: that's true. You really need to be elite in order to get bulkhead. But sometimes you can get it at the airport if you check in early and the flight is not crowded. You always have to ask...you just never know!

Finally: B6 has been known to board from the front AND back of the plane concurrently. At FLL once, they had normal boarding via the jetway, and then they opened a second door, down a flight of stairs, across the tarmac, and then up a flight of stairs to the back door of the 320. This was a MAJOR PAIN if you had a rollaboard. The F/A just said: If you don't want to go down and up the stairs, you can wait until the entire front of the plane has boarded, and then go down the jetway --- just in time for your rollaboard not to fit and have to be gate checked!

Well, I see (in typical A.net fashion) this has evolved into the usual love/hate debate about SWA's boarding process, or the price of tea in China, or whatever...  

On the chance the original poster hasn't been bored to tears and is still around, what's the "danger" that you seem to feel is somehow involved? (See my earlier post.)

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 31): I'll fly on WN and enjoy low fares, good leg room, free soft drinks, free peanuts and snack packs on longer flights while you pay $3 for the same thing.

Funny... on a "longer flight" like CLE-IAH I've gotten a small sandwich, side veggie, and dessert on CO, for free. Along with the entire can of pop/soda depending on your location, and the pretzels/peanuts. Last I checked CO is a legacy, right?? Unless the F/A picked my pockets when I fell asleep to get that $3 from me.

Quoting Bridogger6 (Reply 3): Well why the heck didn't you fly HP?!

Because WN was cheaper.....

Quoting Monorail (Reply 6): Airbus3801, Just out of curiosity, which flight were you on? I was on 196 on Sunday night

2937 or something like that

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 12): Did I miss the boat? Since when is WN thinking of assigining seats? As much as I hate the WN style seating it is the only way of sitting in the first row of an airliner without being rich or having reserved your seat 4 months ahead. I can stand in line for 45 minutes for that.

I am obviously wrong about this, but I had read other places before that WN was planning to implement assigned seating.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 13): As you're mentioning "dangerous" in both the thread's topic line and in your post, I have to ask, what kind of possible "sudden emergency" do you envision that would make any lines associated with SWA's boarding process truly "dangerous" to people? I mean, there are people that detest the way we do it, and there are others (more, I think) that have come to accept that it's how we've historically done business over the last 34 years. That's fine, and you can't please everyone, but what is this big "threat" that you seem to see?

FYI, the reason why this was brought to my attention was because the "people mover" couldn't get through, and was honking, but no one wanted to get out of the way because they didn't want to lose their precious spot in the A,B,C line. This does in fact compromise the termianals ability to vacate the space, and allow room for the necessary personal to get through. Try it for yourself.

And by the way, I haven't replied because I didn't think that my thread would ever make it to the front page of A.net so I am having a little party right now .

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 27): On WN, you've got an incentive to get on that flight ASAP - you don't want to get stuck in the middle, do you?

See, I am sure there is a reason no assigned seating saves on costs, but I don't think that that could be it. Think about it. Everyone is going to go for the front, aisle, and window seats, then the rest will have to work there way toward the aisle and window seats at the back of the plane. The people in the front are going to be blocking the aisle and then when all the good seats are finally taken, everyone in the aisle has to stand up a again to allow people to sneak into that middle seat.

Of course this would only happen on full flights, but still it seems like it would actually take much longer as when the flights are full people are going to be looking desperately for that last good seat before they finally decide to say "excuse me," have some peson in the aisle stand up, and then sit down themselves. I haven't seen this too many times in action, it just seems like it would happen like this (all the WN flights I have been on have been less than half full).

Quoting Airbus3801 (Reply 39): FYI, the reason why this was brought to my attention was because the "people mover" couldn't get through, and was honking, but no one wanted to get out of the way because they didn't want to lose their precious spot in the A,B,C line. This does in fact compromise the termianals ability to vacate the space, and allow room for the necessary personal to get through. Try it for yourself.

OK, but still, where's the "danger"?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30): Terminal 1 is one of the newest terminals at LAX. It was built for PSA and can definately handle the loads. The problem is the idiotic procedure of snaking people around to check their boarding passes then go up the stairs to security

It may be the newest terminal but it seems like it has had the least done to it over the years. Don't get me wrong, the all of the terminals need to be brought up to date to reflect the current loads and more frequent turns. And, I do agree with you about the security area. It is terrible.

But, the whole layout of the terminal and the ingress/egress setup is not very well done for the traffic levels. I remember being in there with PSA and it never seemed like it was that congested. I got off of an HP flight there a couple of weeks ago and it was almost claustraphobic getting through the crowd to baggage claim.

Mike

Quoting Airbus3801 (Thread starter): but so unethical of WN to compromise the terminal space 40 MINUTES prior to BOARDING of the A/C. While I know that WN is planning to integrate assigned seating, I think that it needs to happen a bit sooner.

Dangerous? Unethical? What are you talking about?

Southwest assigning seats? Where did you hear that? Last I heard, Colleen (the president of the company) said no to assigned seating. Open seating WORKS for Southwest. It keeps their turns short and enables them to make even more money.

If you don't like their style, fly another airline.

Careful Longbow or you will draw the venom of the WN faithful.

To answer your question OP while you have list of people who have boarded the flight you do not have a list of where everyone was seated. Your system does not give LE or airline security the means to place specific people into seats that would make troublemaking less than advantageous.

Other than the security concerns it makes your customers stand in line in the hopes of finding a good seat instead of being able to wait until your boarding group is called with the knowledge that your seat is waiting for you.

Rattle Rattle Southwest is boarding now everyone act like Cattle.

Open seating instills a sense of urgency in people when boarding. On average, the boarding process take less than 12 minutes on a full flight with 137 seats. I invite you to show me an airline with similar-sized aircraft and assigned seating that can board a flight in the same amount of time.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 43): Dangerous? Unethical? What are you talking about?

In all honesty, I don't think he knows--he's yet to have articulated exactly what the "danger" is....

I'm going to give my 2 cents here...even though i know its not wanted and I'm going to have half of America jump down my throat but what do you expect? It's fricken WN.

I mean i admire the fact that they invented the LCC concept, but honestly, why the hell does everything need to turn trashy? I would happily board a Jetblue A320 any day of the week and think nothing of it. I have no problems with LCC's... I do have a problem with white trashy behaviour and presentation, with flight attendents in shorts and polo tops etc. Even Mcdonald's staff have more expensive uniforms!

Yes, credit were credit is due. On some flights they do provide more than American, maybe at lower prices and possibly more convienent... such as the whole situation at Dallas. But why can Jetblue maintain some class about things, have staff in clean nice uniforms and maintain and air of humanity about things, and still maintain a low cost base? It is certainly possible. I mean Virginblue can do it, Jetstar at least presents itself well (management policies are the problem from customer relations point of view) Easyjet, flynordic, Air Asia... i mean there are low cost carriers from every continent that can keep their costs down without all that white trash subculture...why the hell not WN?

So here is my suggestion...vote with your feet. Give WN the flick. The other major carrier that needs the flick is the dreaded 'Wrottenair" of Ireland. Any carrier that couldn't even be bothered presenting their staff properly is basically saying "we don't care that much about you to be bothered". Pay another $10.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 47): why the hell does everything need to turn trashy?

Southwest has many faults. But it is not, nor ever has been "trashy". Their aircraft are new, spotless and very well maintained. Their hire friendly people and reward kindness and good job performance involving customers and fellow employees.

I am a flight attendant with a legacy carrier. A snooty one. We are coached in how to handle even the most elementary situations. it's ridicilous. Southwest flight attendants are allow to BE THEMSELVES, to talk normal english and to share a laugh with the customers.

For the vast majority of people in the U.S., Southwest's folksy ways are just fine. And you get brand-spraking new aircraft besides.

Works for me.

Its been a while since we've had a thread about just how horrid boarding Southwest is....   

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 41): OK, but still, where's the "danger"?

Apparently he believes there is some danger where if people are fleeing from the terminal, everyone that's waiting in line to board one of your Canyon Blue babies will just stand there watching people flee. Instead of fleeing themselves, they'll just stand there like the cattle that people think we are. Airbus3801 has posted many times how he does not like WN, so this pointless thread should be no surprise.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 34): Doesn't matter. They're still cattle.

You do realize kind sir that you are in no way shape or form better than people that fly Southwest, no matter what you call them. I fly Southwest a couple times a year. I live in a nice area of Phoenix in a brand new home. I have a great job with a respectable company and I make a good living. Am I "cattle" to you?

Quoting Gipper913 (Reply 29): That said, AS is almost as bad. They do the standard pre-board, FC, then elites, but then do a general boarding call

Alaska's system is horrible...no offense intended. First class, then everyone else. If you think its bad watching 45 people at a time run for the door on WN, try watching 155 people do it on an AS 739 for that precious overhead space.

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 49): Apparently he believes there is some danger where if people are fleeing from the terminal, everyone that's waiting in line to board one of your Canyon Blue babies will just stand there watching people flee. Instead of fleeing themselves, they'll just stand there like the cattle that people think we are. Airbus3801 has posted many times how he does not like WN, so this pointless thread should be no surprise.

To each their own, I guess. There's about as much "danger" from SWA's boarding process as there is "danger" from a line at the movie theater or shopping mall...  

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 28): And if you don't like the way they board, why are you flying them? AAndrew

Because they are usually the cheapest and have the most convenient times.

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 49): Apparently he believes there is some danger where if people are fleeing from the terminal, everyone that's waiting in line to board one of your Canyon Blue babies will just stand there watching people flee. Instead of fleeing themselves, they'll just stand there like the cattle that people think we are. Airbus3801 has posted many times how he does not like WN, so this pointless thread should be no surprise.

If you look, I usually when I am doing any bashing of WN before I flew them said I still need to try them, but I from what I can tell, I would rather not fly them. If you see my trip-report from PHX-Nashville you will find I was pleasantly surprised and pleased with the service, and have considered them to be much better then any other airline, I simply do not care for the boarding process which I believe is a useless and inconvinient way to board an A/C.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 43): Dangerous? Unethical? What are you talking about?

Dangerous was maybe a wrong choice of words, there isn't one to describe it except WN boarding procedures, so shoot me, which I am sure all of the WN cult members here will do as they have already shown....

Unethical yes. The airline has no right to be compromising a terminal that is already crummy as is and restrict even WALKING through the terminal. Please people, I saw this go terribly wrong at PHX where WN was late on a flight and TWO A,B,C's lines started up spilling onto the C concourse and was stopping traffic on both sides. I don't see any airline that is feeling the need to clog up the terminal with passengers getting ready for their flight 40 min. to boarding. Also, for those who say they can't get to the bulkhead or emergency exit row because it is booked so early, you can't get them on WN either unless you preboard because the preboarders take them up.