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KarlB737
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Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:04 am

 
Braniff727
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:17 am

While I can understand that the PFAA doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot for the flight attendants at NWA, I can also see that making a change like this at this pivotal moment in their talks might not be the wisest move.

What may end up happening here is the PFAA spending resources on defending its turf from the AFA while they should be focusing on retaining as many jobs, salary and work rules as possible.

Of course they haven't exactly done a bang up job of that to date. Perhaps they should have just stayed with the IBT. The rest of the IBT wasn't so fond of their NWA membership, but I believe they stood by them in times of trouble.
Climbing
 
777Purser
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:18 am

AFA should stay away and NW Fas should realize that which Union represents them is not as important as reminding united. AFA has tried in the past to raid smaller Unions when times are difficult, as they didd with APFA at AA when management threatened Labor with bakruptcy if concessions were to be rejected.

They have consistent BAD TIMING. Plus bigger does not mean they will do a better job as they ahave issues going on at other airlines as well. I would stay with my Union and give them my full support. There is no time to waste on divisiveness. There is no time to waste period!
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:28 am

I dont think this will make a bit of difference with NW. They are on a mission and they will "git-r-done", no matter who or what union stands in the way.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
TomFoolery
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:28 am

As an outsider, when an airline, or any company decides to cut 5,000 10,000 or 25,000 jobs, how do the unions help those who are out of work? Unions hav not really saved any jobs from getting cut, they may be able to delay the cuts, but all those dollars spent on the union dues- for what?
This might come off as anti-union, if so oh well, but I have very little understanding of the role of a union other than agreeing on pay raises, and pay hikes, and keeping track of who has more seniority.
Before I get labled ignorant, let me make my self clear- I have never been a part of a union, nor do I know much about them due to lack of exposure- NOT IGNORANCE.
Wasn't AFA the union representing all those TWA flight attendants at AA? Great job there! If not, who was? I would avoid them laike the plague.

Tom
Paper makes an airplane fly
 
777Purser
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:01 am

Quoting TomFoolery (Reply 4):
Before I get labled ignorant, let me make my self clear- I have never been a part of a union, nor do I know much about them due to lack of exposure- NOT IGNORANCE.
Wasn't AFA the union representing all those TWA flight attendants at AA? Great job there! If not, who was? I would avoid them laike the plague.

Not a big deal to being IGNORANT of a particular subject matter. Ignorance = Lack of knowledgement.

In any case , TWA was not represented by AFA at the time of the acquisition by AA. They were being represented by the IAM.

However it is important to chllenge the implication you make that the IAM did not do thier job in defending TWA FAs. YWA would havee immediately ceased operations and all of its employees would have immediately lost their jobs if AA did not proceed with the acquisition. FAs at TWA got pay increases according to their seniority at TWA but April 1 2001 seniority (date of aquisition) as their rightful first day as AA employees for integration purposes. I am glad you clarified the fact that you ignore the facts because your post contains inaccurate information.

One thing I agree on. I would not join AFA if I were a FA with NWA at this particular time.
 
aa757first
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:13 am

I don't think it will matter which union NW flight attendants have at this point either. Mangement will get the lay-offs and cuts at this point.

Quoting 777Purser (Reply 5):
FAs at TWA got pay increases according to their seniority at TWA but April 1 2001 seniority (date of aquisition) as their rightful first day as AA employees for integration purposes. I am glad you clarified the fact that you ignore the facts because your post contains inaccurate information.

Flight attendants at TWA got screwed - no other word for it. I know there is a lot of tension about this whole situation, but someone flying for TWA since 1970 was put behind someone flying for American for, what was it, four months?

AAndrew
 
777Purser
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:20 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 6):
Flight attendants at TWA got screwed - no other word for it. I know there is a lot of tension about this whole situation, but someone flying for TWA since 1970 was put behind someone flying for American for, what was it, four months?

Or even one day. TWA was to cease operations. Remember they still have their recall rights for another 2 1/2 years, and there is hope they will come back. Their retirees are enjoying AA retirement and privileges. What would they have had TWA liquidated. anyway Andrew...l am afraid we are deviating from the thread....
 
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Jamake1
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:20 pm

I think I can speak to some of the questions posed regarding this topic. I am no AFA cheerleader by any means, however, having worked for both non-union and unionized airlines as a flight attendant, in my experience, I think AFA is the best representation to have as a flight attendant. Having been through two rounds of paycuts and other concessions, I am grateful to have been represented by a collective bargaining agreement throughout my company's bankruptcy process. Our MEC (Master Executive Council) Negotiating Committee did a remarkable job of MINIMIZING our give-backs. The company wanted to make all Alaska, Hawaii, Mexico, Caribbean, and Central American flying payable at domestic rates of pay (read a $4 an hour pay cut), plus gut our duty rigs and paid holidays. While we did lose 5 of our paid holidays, our MEC was able to negotiate 5 other holidays at the holiday rate of pay (something no other US airline's flight attendants have).

From what I have heard, the independent union at NWA is a bit over their head in securing the requisite committee chairs and legal counsel. In spite of all the AFA nay-sayers on this board and elsewhere, I personally, am glad to be represented by AFA and have the infrastructure that having an AFL-CIO as well as a CWA afilliation, provides.

I think it is unfortunate that Delta and NWA flight attendants voted down AFA representation during the past decade, when the opportunity was there to vote for AFA representation.

I would hardly call current efforts to represent flight attendants at NWA "raiding" another union. That is not how AFA works. If they receive enough signature cards by a respective airline's flight attendants, then the NLRB calls for a vote. It is a process that is quite democratic.

I think my $39.00 in monthly union dues has been a bargain, considering United, in spite of two concessionary contracts and give-backs, still has some of the best work rules in the industry, perks such as paid holidays, trip guarantees, duty rigs, full benefits (read medical, dental, travel, and seniority accrual) while on voluntary furlough, and medical leaves for up to six years. Our perks at United are the result of hard-fought bargaining on the part of our MEC negotiators, not because United management is benevolent.

Additionally, in my ten years with United, my union dues have not been raised once. IMHO, I think that many who do possess a real-world experience of having worked for another airline or in another industry, have no clue as to how good we have it. That's not to say that the give-backs haven't been painful, but we would be a lot worse off without union and/or AFA representation. I still like my contract better than the contracts of most of my counterparts at other carriers. Enough said....
Come fly the sun.
 
NWAFA
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:19 am

Actually PFAA is doing a great deal for our group, there is a very small group, that very cancerous group of Danny, Mollie, Bruce that are trying to get in the glory that they have been voted out so many times.

The majorty of FA's do not and will not chance at this time. The majorty of FA's are very happy with the level of service they are receiving from PFAA.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
Squid
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:17 am

I just don't understand why flight attendants are in unions. Olive Garden servers are not in union's. I just really think it's time for NWA to break the PFAA and start paying their flight attendants what their actually worth. A lot of people would be willing to take flight attendant jobs at NWA for only $12,000 per year.
 
Braniff727
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:26 am

Quoting Squid (Reply 10):
Olive Garden servers are not in union's.

Wow! I really hope that's not a comparison. If so, I'm sure the cabin crew of the Air France plane that slid off the runway in YYZ would beg to differ.

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 9):
Actually PFAA is doing a great deal for our group

I disagree. My friend is being furloughed. Again. He is protected under the Force Majuere clause, but the PFAA has done nothing to protect the jobs of those members. The clause says they are immune from involuntary furlough except when there is an act of war or a work stoppage by an employee group.

While it is true that the AMFA struck, one can argue based on the several press releases from NWA, and the fact that flights were operating normally that there was no interruption in service.

The PFAA is doing nothing to even get flight benefits for those being furloughed, even though every other airline that had flight attendants on furlough during Chapter 11 had them.

Yet the PFAA does nothing.

I don't think switching unions is necessarily the right move, but if you're going to put your faith in a union, I don't see why the PFAA would be your choice. They wouldn't be mine.
Climbing
 
skytony
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:44 am

I totally agree with Jamake1. I have worked at two other non union carriers before coming to a major one represented by AFA. The union is as strong as its members to a point. We had a group try to raid our airline as well. UFAU, was formed by the same legal group which AMFA is a part of. During the turbulence at my airline with paycuts and staff reductions most of the legal and financial help came from CWA. I think unions have their faults too but in my case, it has done very well for us. Considering what the company was asking for before to what we ended up with, it was a great deal. Really, in today's world alliances and experience that other big unions bring to the concession table during chapter 11 is very valuable.
Others would differ, but I would appreciate some more incite from other forum members.
Lower your expectations! You will always be pleasantly surprised!
 
LMP737
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:05 am

Quoting Squid (Reply 10):
I just really think it's time for NWA to break the PFAA and start paying their flight attendants what their actually worth. A lot of people would be willing to take flight attendant jobs at NWA for only $12,000 per year.

Since you seem to be an expert in the airline industry why don't you tell us what there worth. I really cannot see how you can make the statement that a lot of people are willing to do the job for $12000, do you know any of those people personally?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
aviatortj
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:37 am

Quoting Squid (Reply 10):
A lot of people would be willing to take flight attendant jobs at NWA for only $12,000 per year.

I'll raise the flag here. Who in the hell would take a job right now for less than $12,000? The regional pilots earning 10k on top of that already have enough trouble living and paying back student loans. Hopefully you aren't heading towards airline management.
 
aa757first
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:10 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 13):

Since you seem to be an expert in the airline industry why don't you tell us what there worth. I really cannot see how you can make the statement that a lot of people are willing to do the job for $12000, do you know any of those people personally?



Quoting AviatorTJ (Reply 14):

I'll raise the flag here. Who in the hell would take a job right now for less than $12,000? The regional pilots earning 10k on top of that already have enough trouble living and paying back student loans. Hopefully you aren't heading towards airline management.

A lot of regional flight attendants make $15,000 or so during their first year flying, and they are working SAAB 340s to places like Allentown, Erie, Oil City and other "Where the hell is that?" kind of cities. $12k is pushing it, but I think you would be able to at least fill your vacancies with $12k. Think about it, you would be flying A330s to AMS instead of 717s to PIT or A319s to CLT. Most airlines report about seventeen applicants to every opening.

Unfortunatley, people aren't always paid what they are worth. Do you think the 20 year old nurse that failed her state tests three times is worth $47 an hour - yes $47.00 an hour - for her weekend work. Probably not. But there is a shortage of nurses, therefore they are paid top dollar. There is no shortage of flight attendants, at all, therefore they will be paid very little. The flight attendant position has gone from a career to a job for empty nesters and college grads looking to take some time off.

 twocents 
AAndrew

Once again, I'm really sorry for any spelling errors, the spell check isn't working!
 
777Purser
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:21 pm

Quoting Squid (Reply 10):
I just don't understand why flight attendants are in unions.

You obviously do not understand JACK period. Why are you even in this forum. Go do some research before even opening your mouth.
 
Squid
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:56 pm

I understand your JUST a flight attendant, but you all seem to think your rocket scientists. It's a service position, similar to a waiter/waitress with a few safety duties on the side, yet you all seam to think your worth $50,000 per year, leading your respective airlines into bankruptsy. These bloated wages keep the turn over too low and you all grow old and out of shape, and turn bitter over the years. I really think the airlines should put a five year contract deal in front of every airline worker to sign, and at the end of the five years, it will be up to the company if they want to renew it or not based on your proformance.
 
B707Stu
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:10 pm

Quoting TomFoolery (Reply 4):
As an outsider, when an airline, or any company decides to cut 5,000 10,000 or 25,000 jobs, how do the unions help those who are out of work? Unions hav not really saved any jobs from getting cut, they may be able to delay the cuts, but all those dollars spent on the union dues- for what?
This might come off as anti-union, if so oh well, but I have very little understanding of the role of a union other than agreeing on pay raises, and pay hikes, and keeping track of who has more seniority.
Before I get labled ignorant, let me make my self clear- I have never been a part of a union, nor do I know much about them due to lack of exposure- NOT IGNORANCE.
Wasn't AFA the union representing all those TWA flight attendants at AA? Great job there! If not, who was? I would avoid them laike the plague.

Unions are effective as collective bargaining tools. Those without unions have no voice whatsoever to management in making decisions. Unions force a formal dialogue between front line staff, or those most vulnerable without a formal seat at the table, and senior management. Instead of using the word union, replace it with Lawyer. Having a lawyer at the table with a signed contract allows for negotiation and forces management to be more thoughtful toward not only the impact of their decisions on staff but toward its own bottom line. If you alienate front line staff you're going to fall behind, in many ways. I hope we see more unions come into existence. Especially for white collar workers!
 
FlyGuyClt
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:28 pm

Quoting Squid (Reply 17):
I understand your JUST a flight attendant, but you all seem to think your rocket scientists. It's a service position, similar to a waiter/waitress with a few safety duties on the side, yet you all seam to think your worth $50,000 per year, leading your respective airlines into bankruptsy. These bloated wages keep the turn over too low and you all grow old and out of shape, and turn bitter over the years. I really think the airlines should put a five year contract deal in front of every airline worker to sign, and at the end of the five years, it will be up to the company if they want to renew it or not based on your proformance.

Please tell that to the 5 families whose family members I have saved over 19 years.

Please tell that to the countless passengers whom I have made their day.

Please tell that to the plane load of 68 passengers whom I prepared the cabin for during a "red level emergency" we stayed calm and all worked out.

Please tell that to the 50 some passengers I helped evacuate in CLE during the late 80's during a APU fire.

Please tell that to the family the other day out of GPT who had a body underneath.

Please tell that to the countless people who need "extra" assitance on a daily basis and get it with a smile.

Please tell that to the countless number of special needs customers who need help just doing the smallest things. Ie, going to the bathroom.

Please tell that to the countless unaccompanied minors who get on crying and all it takes is a smile, a pair of wings, a visit to the flight deck to make their day.

Please tell that to the heart attack victim I dropped off alive in St. John's New Foundland on the way back from Amsterdam because of my First Aid training.

Please tell that the many customers who have written the company over the years. I am a 3 time Top 25 Service Champion Award Winner.

By the way. You try it for one month. Fly around. Buy all your food at airports or hotels. There is a lot of money invovled in this job. There is a lot of talent invovled in this job. Sure, airlines had to mass hire in the 90's and some should not be doing this job. But, really, stop trying to rule this board from a high chair. How many times have you flown anyway ?

Safe Flying  Smile
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
FlyGuyClt
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:47 pm

Ok, here we go with some facts.

A McDonald's Crew Person makes more than $12,000 per year in most states.

A TSA Employee makes more than $12,000 per year.

A Sanitation Employee makes more than $12,000 per year.

A Patient Care Assistant makes more than $12,000 per year.

A NAVY Recruit makes more than $12,000 per year and has their housing and food paid for.

A Restaurant Manager makes more than $12,000 per year.

If you make less than $17.000 per year you qualify for public assistance. There goes your taxes.

I am really glad you made your post. Really. You put your mind set in print. We know all know how much credit to give you in the future. Thanks for sharing with us.

Safe Flying  

As far as AFA. I still remember what they did for the Braniff members in 1989. NOTHING ! ! ! There were serveral AFA carriers hiring at the time. NOT one of them came to Kansas City the largest base to interview. What we got from AFA was a copy of a letter with all airlines hiring info. PERIOD. But then again. What the NWA flight attendants need to do is start talking with AFA members at other airlines. See if they are happy with AFA. See what has changed over the years. See how AFA is today and what their game plan is for the furture.

[Edited 2005-09-28 11:52:27]
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
TomFoolery
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:41 pm

While I do recognize that collective bargaining is a big advantage of a union- and when an airline can have 30,000 cabin crew positions I can understand where having an organized entity is a necessity. In the case of NWA, isnt 30,000 (est) active members enough to change the dynamics of this union and make it more in tune with the present needs of the whole of the members? This would avoid the need to switch unions.
I also understand that unions also represent the retired members as well- how would this change affect them? Do they have a say?
Tom
Paper makes an airplane fly
 
FlyGuyClt
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:33 pm

NWA only has 38,000 or so TOTAL employees left. Down from a high of 55,000 or so. The NWA Flight Attedants ranks are around 9800 left.

Safe Flying  Smile
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
LMP737
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:56 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 15):
A lot of regional flight attendants make $15,000 or so during their first year flying, and they are working SAAB 340s to places like Allentown, Erie, Oil City and other "Where the hell is that?" kind of cities. $12k is pushing it, but I think you would be able to at least fill your vacancies with $12k. Think about it, you would be flying A330s to AMS instead of 717s to PIT or A319s to CLT. Most airlines report about seventeen applicants to every opening.

I wonder how many people are willing to got to work for $12000 a year at a carrier that is under chapter 11? Maybe some kid right out of high school living with mom and dad. My guess is that it will be a bit harder to fill than you think. One problem airlines are having right now is that they are losing people who have decided to leave the industry for greener pastures. Then they have to go further down the recall list to get replacements because people are saying no.

Quoting Squid (Reply 17):
I understand your JUST a flight attendant, but you all seem to think your rocket scientists. It's a service position, similar to a waiter/waitress with a few safety duties on the side, yet you all seam to think your worth $50,000 per year, leading your respective airlines into bankruptsy. These bloated wages keep the turn over too low and you all grow old and out of shape, and turn bitter over the years. I really think the airlines should put a five year contract deal in front of every airline worker to sign, and at the end of the five years, it will be up to the company if they want to renew it or not based on your proformance.

Would you please explain Delta airlines for us then. The mechanics, flight attendants and rampers are non-union. Only the pilots and dispatchers are union. So much for your theory. SWA's flight attendants are the highest paid in the industry and they seem to be doing okay. Their pilots make more than any other 737 pilot out there. Heck a topped out SWA captain makes more than a 777 or 747 captain at UAL! On the maintenance side their AMT's make more than anyother AMT"s, except for UPS and that really does'nt count.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
777Purser
Posts: 215
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:38 am

Hi Squid. I understand I am just a Flight Attendant, and I am humbly and truly grateful for what I have learned throught the years working for a major carrier.

At a personal level, I will share with you (though I suspect you don't care to know this) that I also understand my assets as I a valuable employee at my copany. I have a Business Dregree, I speak three languages, I as a Purser, act as a liason between the customer and the airline. I am, when at work, along with the rest of the crew no less than the face and the voice of the airline.

I often work long range trips on amazing aircraft, and sometimes feels like a a dream...I get awaken by my own voice over the PA...yeah..it is really me. I want to believe that most Flight Attendants are passionate about thier jobs, they are compasssionate, giving individuals...like I feel I am.

I know I am militant when it comes to unfairness at the work place, and I an advocate for Labor rights as people have probably noticed on these forums...but I am a professional, both service and safety.... I love my job and I deserve my pay.

I hope you can still read this as I notice you have been banned from posting this site at the request of some members including myself. See you in 7 days.

Regards
777Purser
 
aa757first
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:27 am

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 20):

A McDonald's Crew Person makes more than $12,000 per year in most states.

A TSA Employee makes more than $12,000 per year.

A Sanitation Employee makes more than $12,000 per year.

A Patient Care Assistant makes more than $12,000 per year.

A NAVY Recruit makes more than $12,000 per year and has their housing and food paid for.

A Restaurant Manager makes more than $12,000 per year.

The problem is those jobs, for the most part, suck. Let's see, flipping burgers and putting salt on fries, looking into purses on a screen all day long, cleaning up vomit, changing someone's bedpan. The Navy recruit and restaurant manager are better jobs. Let's not forget that they do take a lot of training to do.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 23):

I wonder how many people are willing to got to work for $12000 a year at a carrier that is under chapter 11? Maybe some kid right out of high school living with mom and dad. My guess is that it will be a bit harder to fill than you think. One problem airlines are having right now is that they are losing people who have decided to leave the industry for greener pastures. Then they have to go further down the recall list to get replacements because people are saying no.

People that don't care if the airline goes under, like I said. Sally is 57 years old, her kids are off to college, she has plenty of money, now she'd just like to fly around for a few years, something she couldn't do when her kids were still dependant on her. Same way with Anne, a graduate out of college. She wants to fly for two or three years and then get the job she was educated to do. If the carrier goes bankrupt, Sally goes back to knitting blankets and Anne gets her "real" job. It also might attract someone looking for "gravy money", just to get the flight benefits and some extra cash to spend as she uses the flight benefits.

AAndrew
 
777Purser
Posts: 215
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:50 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 25):
People that don't care if the airline goes under, like I said. Sally is 57 years old, her kids are off to college, she has plenty of money, now she'd just like to fly around for a few years, something she couldn't do when her kids were still dependant on her. Same way with Anne, a graduate out of college. She wants to fly for two or three years and then get the job she was educated to do. If the carrier goes bankrupt, Sally goes back to knitting blankets and Anne gets her "real" job. It also might attract someone looking for "gravy money", just to get the flight benefits and some extra cash to spend as she uses the flight benefits.

Yes Andrew, but the airlines need people flying well over 85 hrs a month so they can have as little employees as possible. Benefits and Privileges are expensive. We are actually short, everyone flies high time and still they sun out of reserve towards the end of the month...Sally and Ann might not want to kill themselves flying unless there is some money there to compensate them in sacrifices in their personal lifes that are inherent to the job...
 
FlyGuyClt
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:23 pm

RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:06 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 25):

My point was that A Flight Attendant should make more than $12,000 per year.

Training for Flight Attedants is also on going.

Safe Flying  Smile

When you fly? Are you a UM ? (Sorry could not resist)

Flight Attendants also have to clean up vomit now and then too.
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
KarlB737
Topic Author
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:16 am

Courtesy: Associated Press

Another Union Moves To Represent Northwest Flight Attendants

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/mld/sanluisobispo/business/12866870.htm
 
slider
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:27 am

LOL!

More desperation from the TWU....

Good luck to the NW F/As fi they go TWU- they'll need it. Talk about a union with a history of concessionary bad contracts. They want nothing more than dues revenue. End of that story.
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
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RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:58 am

The talk on the line is AFA is not going to win...every one KNOWS NOW is not the time.

TWU - please, they are just out for our money.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
dl1011
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:42 am

RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:28 am

"Hi Squid. I understand I am just a Flight Attendant, and I am humbly and truly grateful for what I have learned throught the years working for a major carrier.

At a personal level, I will share with you (though I suspect you don't care to know this) that I also understand my assets as I a valuable employee at my copany. I have a Business Dregree, I speak three languages, I as a Purser, act as a liason between the customer and the airline. I am, when at work, along with the rest of the crew no less than the face and the voice of the airline.

I often work long range trips on amazing aircraft, and sometimes feels like a a dream...I get awaken by my own voice over the PA...yeah..it is really me. I want to believe that most Flight Attendants are passionate about thier jobs, they are compasssionate, giving individuals...like I feel I am.

I know I am militant when it comes to unfairness at the work place, and I an advocate for Labor rights as people have probably noticed on these forums...but I am a professional, both service and safety.... I love my job and I deserve my pay.

I hope you can still read this as I notice you have been banned from posting this site at the request of some members including myself. See you in 7 days.

Regards
777Purser"

Here is my 2 cts (fwiw)- I think that most of the F/A's are worth WAY more then what they earn. Being stuck in a metal tube with 300 people that expect 5 star service for $99. People that drink too much or leave their kids used Huggies on the floor or are just pissed at the poor service that most airlines heap on the pax. You couldn't pay me enough to do that job, I'd rather live under a bridge.

And don't even waste time responding to the board idiots that think anyone getting more then 7 bucks an hour is overpaid. There are a couple of those idiots around this board and also over on the Yahoo Airline boards. I'm not sure if they are just stirring the pot of if they really are as stupid as their posts make them out to be.
 
Squid
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:21 am

RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:50 am

Well it's funny, but I've read many times in airline forums and chat rooms that there are people that want to be flight attendants so bad that they are willing to do the job for free for up to one whole year. And I have heard this more than once. Obviously, they must really want that job. So with people like that, maybe most airline are over paying, huh?
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:25 am

Quoting 777Purser (Reply 26):

Yes Andrew, but the airlines need people flying well over 85 hrs a month so they can have as little employees as possible. Benefits and Privileges are expensive. We are actually short, everyone flies high time and still they sun out of reserve towards the end of the month...Sally and Ann might not want to kill themselves flying unless there is some money there to compensate them in sacrifices in their personal lifes that are inherent to the job...

This is true, but I bet you could still find people for $12,000 a year. I think $12,000 is low, but you couldn't find them. I think TransStates is/was actually paying around $12,000 a year.

Quoting Flyguyclt (Reply 27):

My point was that A Flight Attendant should make more than $12,000 per year.

Training for Flight Attedants is also on going.

NBA Star Player Pay: $20,000,000.00
Doctor Pay: $250,000.00

Hmm, doctor's go through at least ten years of training and have on going training too. And I think we would all agree that a doctor is a hell of a lot more important than a basketball player. But salaries aren't set by value or skill. They are set by market conditions. Right now there is not a lot of demand for flight attendants and a lot of supply.

Quoting Flyguyclt (Reply 27):

When you fly? Are you a UM ? (Sorry could not resist)

When you fly are you one of those flight attendants scarier than LGA's parking lot at 4:00 AM?

Quoting Flyguyclt (Reply 27):

Flight Attendants also have to clean up vomit now and then too.

Yeah, so?

AAndrew
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Northwest Flight Attendants May Change Unions

Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:27 am

Quoting Braniff727 (Reply 1):
While I can understand that the PFAA doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot for the flight attendants at NWA,

What does the PFAA, or any union for that matter, think they can do for employees in this situation? The bottom line is the company has a bankruptcy filing on it's side. No union can prevent changes when the courts are involved.

I'm glad I don't pay union dues anymore. These idiots blindly lead (and the members blindly follow) their member down a no-win path. In the worst case scenario for the company, they will continue to pay the contract wages until the contract expires, then do what they did with the AMFA.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.

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