Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
a380900
Topic Author
Posts: 805
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:26 pm

A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:59 am

I don't see the point of Airbus making a tour so early in the testing process. Why don't they wait ? What if anything happens far away from Toulouse. I think it is silly.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9302
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:05 pm

>> Why don't they wait ?

For what? Do they have a giant pair of training-wheels still on the airplane that I haven't seen?  Wink

>> What if anything happens far away from Toulouse

Then something happens, you dispatch a mech team, and that's that. Aircraft do have mechanical problems on promotional tours from time to time. When Boeing was demonstrating the 777 for SAA, an engine stalled as it was taxiing off the runway. Not great P.R. for Boeing, but airlines know 99% reliability means 1% of the time, something less than desireable will happen.

Put another way: a problem on tour doesn't look great, but not flying the aircraft away from its home base does little to inspire confidence in the program.


>> I think it is silly.

From your other threads, it doesn't suprise me.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
GulfstreamGuy
Posts: 633
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 1999 6:30 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:10 pm

I agree... sort of. It would be good to test it mileage wise but also it should be tested it the area closer to it's maintenance home.

I would LOVE to see it come to LIT. Although I am pretty sure that "ain't gonna' happin' Cappin'!"

GulfstreamGuy airplane 
"If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane. " -Jimmy Buffett
 
PlaneDane
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:08 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
I don't see the point of Airbus making a tour so early in the testing process. Why don't they wait ? What if anything happens far away from Toulouse. I think it is silly.

Well, maybe, this can be taken as Airbus having confidence in this aircraft. We could also suppose that testing is coming along quicker and with better results than many of us originally thought.

There may be some testing accomplished as part of the flight time spent on the tour too.
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:31 pm

Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
I don't see the point of Airbus making a tour so early in the testing process. Why don't they wait ? What if anything happens far away from Toulouse. I think it is silly.

I cannot believe you are the one with concerns. They can conduct tests while the airplane is in flight and mechanics can follow the plane around. I am sure they could put some spare parts in the airplane.

Has serial #2 flown yet?

[Edited 2005-09-29 05:39:25]
 
CanadianNorth
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:41 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:36 pm

It's a big plane, put on a couple mechanics and a few spare parts for the ones that are most likely to go and do a tour. I know if I was an airline I wouldn't want to buy a plane that the manufacturer is afraid to fly more than a couple hundred miles from home...



CanadianNorth
HS-748, like a 747 but better!
 
squirrel83
Posts: 1218
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 12:28 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:39 pm

As posted in the following . https://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2353404/6/. does anyone have any information reguarding the World Tour??
A346, 7E7, 747, 777, Sonic Cruiser
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5334
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:24 pm

Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
I don't see the point of Airbus making a tour so early in the testing process. Why don't they wait ? What if anything happens far away from Toulouse. I think it is silly.

They made a low fly-pass and a go around at the end of the very first flight of the monster last april ...

The A380 participated at the Paris Air Show last june, in a much earlier stage of the testing process, just about two months after the first flight, making 2 x Daily breathtaking air demonstrations of the plane, everyday during all the week ...

Airbus guys are not crazy... if they decide to do this tour, it means they are fully confident in their plane ...
 
WINGS
Posts: 2315
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:59 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 7):
The A380 participated at the Paris Air Show last june, in a much earlier stage of the testing process, just about two months after the first flight, making 2 x Daily breathtaking air demonstrations of the plane, everyday during all the week ...

I was actually at the Paris Air show on the 18th of June and the A380 only performed one breathtaking air demonstration of the plane. Maybe I should ask for my money back Big grin

From what i saw the A380 is more than ready to fly long haul flights.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5334
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:20 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 8):
was actually at the Paris Air show on the 18th of June and the A380 only performed one breathtaking air demonstration of the plane

Too bad for you !!!  cry 
2 demonstrations were normally schedulled daily :
The first one around noon, the second in the afternoon aroun 3:30PM.
 
WINGS
Posts: 2315
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:27 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 9):
Too bad for you !!! cry
2 demonstrations were normally schedulled daily :
The first one around noon, the second in the afternoon aroun 3:30PM.

Could it be because I went on the Saturday? Maybe the guests were fortunate enough to see 2x flying demonstrations during the week?

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5334
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:32 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 10):
Could it be because I went on the Saturday?

Maybe ... I went there the first day, access reserved for the "professionals" like most of the week days.
I think only friday and the week-end was opened for all the public.

My brother went there the last day. He saw two demonstrations, but at the end of the second one, the plane did not land back at LBG and returned straight to TLS.

[Edited 2005-09-29 10:34:44]
 
777ER
Head Moderator
Posts: 10087
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:32 pm

There is nothing wrong with having an A380 tour right now. The A380 has been flying for several months, attended an air show and did flying displays, completed tens of thousands of hours of flying.

Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):

Scared that something bad will happen?
Head Forum Moderator
[email protected]
Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
WINGS
Posts: 2315
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:39 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 12):
completed tens of thousands of hours of flying.

I would not go this far. Even though I dont have hard facts with me I doubt it very much that the A380 has performed tens of thousands of flying hours. I would say its close to 400-500 hours of flying hours until now.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
777ER
Head Moderator
Posts: 10087
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:44 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 13):
A380 has performed tens of thousands of flying hours. I would say its close to 400-500 hours of flying hours until now.

That was just a rough guess, considering the A380 has been flying for about 5 months now, as I havn't read anything about flying hours
Head Forum Moderator
[email protected]
Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
andz
Posts: 7684
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:46 pm

I'm hoping it will come here for hot and high testing, our summer is coming, JNB is over 5,000ft ASL and SAA has a full Airbus maintenance base.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
killjoy
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 6:00 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:43 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 14):
That was just a rough guess, considering the A380 has been flying for about 5 months now, as I havn't read anything about flying hours

5 months of continuous flying would result in about 3600 hours  Smile .
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:52 pm

Airbus said that the test programm is in a good progress and that they did not have any serious problems at all. They have to test long-haul anyway therefore the world tour is the right thing. I don't see a special risk.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5334
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:21 pm

Quoting ZRH (Reply 17):
Airbus said that the test programm is in a good progress and that they did not have any serious problems at all.

In any case, I doubt that if they had any serious problem, they would say it ...

It was only revealed several after that, during the first test flight of the A300, the tail was that close to fall appart due to extreme vibrations ...
Thanks to the Chief Pilot who decided to make the flight shorter and returned to TLS earlier than planned.
 
Ruscoe
Posts: 1747
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 5:41 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:40 pm

No point in flying anything to check mileage before MSN 004 because it is the first production standard aircraft.

Ruscoe
 
stall
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:57 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:44 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 18):
It was only revealed several after that, during the first test flight of the A300, the tail was that close to fall appart due to extreme vibrations ...

Interresting !

Can you provide a link ? I am always interested in test flights reports. Thanks
Flying is fun
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5334
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:20 pm

Not a link.
I read it in a book (in French) about the history of Airbus, written by J.Pierson.
I have it at home. I can send you the references when I'll be back home.

I think the book's title is "Airbus, les Ailes de l'Europe", or something like this ...

[Edited 2005-09-29 14:26:16]
 
HEGAN
Posts: 204
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:11 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:58 pm

Would be great to see a world tour of the A380.

What cities do you think it could visit?
Let's hope to see the A380 in MAD or BCN soon!

I suppose it would visit its coustomers country as well as some new potential customers ones.

Agur,
HEGAN
HEGAN: Euskadiko Aeronautikako eta Espazioko Clusterra
 
Greasemonkey
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:18 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:42 am

I would have to agree with Killjoy....our CRJ's have been flying alot for almost 2 years and our highest time bird is a just alittle under 4000 hours on the airframe.
It's usually a good idea to know what all the buttons do...before you push them.
 
TPASXM787
Posts: 1667
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:31 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:12 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 12):
The A380 has been flying for several months, attended an air show and did flying displays, completed tens of thousands of hours of flying.

There's only 8760 hours in a year  Wink
This is the Last Stop.
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4439
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:13 am

BTW, what are the legal issues? Is it allowed to fly around the world with an airplane that is not certified yet? I know it is not carrying passengers, but still, can you land in Singapore without a valid type certificate from European/French authorities?

Michael
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19874
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:15 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 25):
BTW, what are the legal issues? Is it allowed to fly around the world with an airplane that is not certified yet? I know it is not carrying passengers, but still, can you land in Singapore without a valid type certificate from European/French authorities?

You raise a good point. The plane is probably still under an experimental certificate, but as long as you have approval from the various national authorities you may fly it in as long as it's not carrying pax.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:27 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 12):
completed tens of thousands of hours of flying.

I know it's already been pointed out, but just for reference if one aircraft had compleated even "just" 10,000 hours of flying it means that it will have been airborne 24 hours a day, 7 days a week with no interuptions of any type (mx, refueling, crew changes, etc) for 416.6 days, or a little over 1.1 years.

Now... That would be an impressive statistic to offer potential buyers  Smile

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:29 am

I think the legal formalities can be easily resolved. The A380 is certainly not the first aircraft to leave its home country for extreme climate testing or a road show.

I am very glad that this thread was not started by an American.
 
User avatar
Heavierthanair
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 11:20 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:44 am

G'day

Going out of town is common practice in the aircraft certification process.

Certification requires performance tests in hot and high airfields and start-up trials after a cold soak, neither of which can be done in TooLoose - or Seattle for that matter. Route proofing is also done before the aircraft is certified, this cannot efficiently be accomplished by flying around the home town.

Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
User avatar
United787
Posts: 2937
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:20 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:15 am

Quoting HEGAN (Reply 22):
What cities do you think it could visit?
Let's hope to see the A380 in MAD or BCN soon!

What cities can it visit? Have any airports completed its A380 upgrades so that it can make a simple turn once it lands? A World Tour wouldn't be much of a tour if it could only goto LHR and LAX.
 
lhrmaccoll
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:12 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:27 am

Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):

Its called Marketing.
Alex
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:28 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 25):
BTW, what are the legal issues? Is it allowed to fly around the world with an airplane that is not certified yet? I know it is not carrying passengers, but still, can you land in Singapore without a valid type certificate from European/French authorities?

No different to the 777 doing its various testing tours.

Quoting United787 (Reply 30):
What cities can it visit? Have any airports completed its A380 upgrades so that it can make a simple turn once it lands? A World Tour wouldn't be much of a tour if it could only goto LHR and LAX.

This has been done to death here.

The A380 fits in the 80m standard box, and will only have issues with airports which have weak taxiways. Its pavement loading is lower than a 777. Any airport which can handle a 747 can handle an A380. The door sills are at the same height as a 747 on the lower deck.

The only other issue is a slight chance of FOD as the 1 and 4 engines on the A380 sit further out than the 747. Most airports have sufficient clearance.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:56 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 30):
What cities can it visit? Have any airports completed its A380 upgrades so that it can make a simple turn once it lands?

I have to repeat what WhiteHatter already said: the A 380 can land and take-off at any airport which can handle a 747, 777, 340 etc. The runways are not the problem (Le Bourget has only an 45 meter wide runway but the 380 was there). The airports have to upgrade perhaps the gates (regarding number of passengers and airbridges). Some curves on taxiways have probably to be widened and some bridges to be strengthened. But this is only needed at most airports for regular service and not for a visite. Length of runways is no issue at all, the A 380 even needs less than other wide-bodies.
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:07 am

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:00 am

Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
don't see the point of Airbus making a tour so early in the testing process. Why don't they wait ? What if anything happens far away from Toulouse. I think it is silly.

A World Tour is great PR for both the A380 & Airbus, what better way to prove the operation numbers than to fly the routes yourself.....
NO URLS in signature
 
andz
Posts: 7684
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: A380 World Tour: Too Risky?

Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:05 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 25):
Is it allowed to fly around the world with an airplane that is not certified yet?

I think that little sticker somewhere that says "EXPERIMENTAL" absolves all issues....
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos