RL757PVD
Topic Author
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Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:05 pm

I know there have been threads on SFB in the past asking about the airport, here is the # 1 reason why you will never see me on any of the types airlines that fly there! When i worked at DAB people used to always ask me "why dont you get airlines like sanford"...The id explain to them the schedule and how they serve all the cities they do, where unless you want to go to SYR on a tuesday morning ( example), you cant do it from there, whereas in DL via ATL you can get to SYR 5 different times every day.



Dozens of passengers are stranded and furious at Orlando-Sanford International Airport Thursday morning.

The passengers were supposed to depart for Rockford, Ill., on a TransMeridian Airlines flight at 8:15 p.m., WESH 2 News reported.

But the flight didn't leave until after midnight, and it had to return to the airport shortly after takeoff because of some kind of mechanical problem. It caused quite a scare for many passengers, who told WESH 2 News that many people were crying and praying.

The 90 passengers did land safely, and some left the airport, but about 80 stayed and have been waiting in a secure area with very little information from officials or airport personnel.

WESH 2 News was able to talk to passengers by phone as they looked through an airport window.

"The thing that is really frustrating most of us is a lot of the people are elderly, and they're in wheelchairs. I haven't seen them go to the bathroom one time. They didn't have anything to eat or drink until 3 a.m. either. These people screwed up really, really badly, and they should be ashamed of themselves for how they're treating human beings, who are their customers, who will never be their customers again," passenger Kelly Cook said.

As of 6:30 a.m., the passengers continued to wait for the mechanical problem to be repaired so they can return to the plane. The passengers did receive pretzels and water for breakfast.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:11 pm

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:16 pm

Don't you think you are exagerating a bit ?
Technical problems happen sometimes.
I know Falcon Air is not one of the best airlines, but still problems as that are the exception.
I would not blame the airport for having some "exotic" carriers.
 
RL757PVD
Topic Author
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RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:35 pm

This points out the major issue many people dont realize when booking on these airlines. They book on them thinking its like any other airline, but they are not required to accomodate pax the same way the legacies are. They can have them wait 3-4 days for a plane to get there and that'd just be the way it goes.

Im not blaming SFB persay, but its the kind of repuation they are getting by having these re-occuring problems like this.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Chiguire
Posts: 1848
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RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:09 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 2):
This points out the major issue many people dont realize when booking on these airlines. They book on them thinking its like any other airline, but they are not required to accomodate pax the same way the legacies are. They can have them wait 3-4 days for a plane to get there and that'd just be the way it goes.

But this has to do with your consumer protection laws. In Europe there is no difference in how they need to treat the passengers. No matter if Charter, LCC or Legacy.
Isn't there such a law in the US ?
 
access-air
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RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:03 am

You get what you pay for.....
Its too bad that the country is discount driven on every front from Groceries to Appliances to Cars to Travel.
Everyone feels entitled to a discount and the retail industries are ALL entirely to blame. So like I said, you get what you pay for.
I have, as a travel agent, little compassion for passengers that book a dodgy airline against my suggestions and when something goes wrong come back whining to me. We can warn people all we want, but we have been made to be nothing more than ordertakers for DIY crowd.
I too, think that the FAA should make ALL airlines adhere to the same rules for irregular operations whether, scheduled, charter or scheduled charter. I am just hoping that we didnt have any of our passengers on that flight. So far we have heard nothing.

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4115
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RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:15 am

Looks like TMA has a second flight scheduled in for today from SFB up to TOL, not sure if it is the same aircraft. If it is, probably going up there for a mx check and additional work after this issue.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:29 am

I just flew Transmeridian last week from Rockford to Las Vegas. I was incredibly hesitant when booking with them because I knew things like this happen. However the airline service seemed to be pretty nice. The flight attendants were great and the MD80 was kept clean, so it can be a good airline. However you just need to go in knowing that there is the possibility of a delay. The airline makes you sign a form acknowledging that you understand their policies, and they go over each of the policies over the phone when you are making a reservation, so you really do know what to expect. The airline flies older planes, and isn't a large reliable carrier. They have outsourced everything so when you are not on a plane, you often are not talking to a TMA employee. They are an ok airline, but you have to be prepared for things like this. Pan Am and Hooters Air are just the same. They fly to the smaller airports with leisure passengers and fly them to vacation destinations and are only somewhat reliable.

One big thing though with the airline is that the clientele are not your typical traveler that you would get on NW or even WN. The people that were on my RFD-LAS flight were rude and drank a lot (I was the only one of the 16 first class passengers not drinking alcoholic beverages). It is not a high quality crowd by any means and TMA is not a high quality carrier. I think I was the only one flying for business reasons. I think this type of group knows that there could be delays and potential for problems, but first and foremost only cares about price. So yes, you do get what you pay for.

Here is my trip report about what a good experience can be on this airline: RFD-LAS-RFD On TransMeridian And HootersAir W/pics (by RoseFlyer Sep 26 2005 in Trip Reports)
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:50 am

Several years ago I was on a United 747-400 from SFO to ORD. We had to divert to Milwaukee because of thunderstorms in the Chicago area. Landing at MKE at around 6pm, we didn't leave there until MIDNIGHT. We landed at ORD at around 12:30am...no one around to help; no one around to give us hotel rooms; we were left to sleep on benches. The point is, this was CHICAGO O'HARE and this was UNITED AIRLINES. The same stuff that is supposedly the 'problem' with little airports and little airlines can (and does, all the time) happen at BIG airports and MAJOR airlines. When things do go 'right' (which is much more often than not) I'd rather be doing it out of a Sanford than a MCO.

Chris in NH
 
roseflyer
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RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:43 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 7):
The same stuff that is supposedly the 'problem' with little airports and little airlines can (and does, all the time) happen at BIG airports and MAJOR airlines.

That is very true, but it can happen more often with the smaller airlines, especially the charter airlines. It seems that due to their old fleets and their operations, US charter airlines seem to have more trouble than larger more streamlined carriers. I am curious if anyone has any specific numbers as to on time performance of charter carriers when compared to scheduled carriers.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
RL757PVD
Topic Author
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RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:53 am

The nice thing about big airports and big airlines is the amount of resources. In ATL ive had seferal occasions where there was a mechanical and they were able to get a new plane in some cases less than 30 minutes! If it happened at a small airport there is a good chance the flight would get canceled or it would be 3 to 5 hours before they could get a plane up there to take the people out. Charter airlines at small airports, could be days in some cases, as shown.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 3:55 am

I'd be hesitant to use these kind of operations not so much for the reason above, as it can happen to anyone, but because if things do go wrong there is little to no back-up equipment available.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
atcrick
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RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:06 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 8):
That is very true, but it can happen more often with the smaller airlines, especially the charter airlines. It seems that due to their old fleets and their operations

Bologna. Look at yor facts sir. Old fleets? there are small airlines out there with equipment not any older than what the legacy carriers fly. The smaller carriers end to fly late flights because they have no code sharing agreements.
natch!!
 
roseflyer
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RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:23 am

Quoting ATCRick (Reply 11):
Old fleets? there are small airlines out there with equipment not any older than what the legacy carriers fly.

True, but one major thing about many of the domestic charters is that their fleets are second hand. Pan Am (which was one of the airlines that I was referring to even though they aren't really flying now) has a fleet of used 727s. Transmeridian operates MD80s, 757s and 727s. Hooters Air operated by Pace uses 732s, 733s and 757s. While not necessarily that much older than some legacy airlines fleets, these planes have had multiple owners. And with multiple owners, you get a fleet that is maintained differently and often has more mechanical issues. NW has DC-9s, but does a very good job of maintaining them. Some charter airlnes in the United States have newer equipment like Ryan or Miami Air, but the ones with the public charters that I referred to don't. They are very hit or miss.

The last line of your post is rather incoherent. Also I have requested deletion of your second post (12) because it is offensive.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:51 am

Holy crap! Is half the UK headed to SFB? I looked at SFB today's arrivals (Thurs, Sept-29) on Flytecomm.com. Lots of heavy metal....

Flights arriving in: Orlando, FL (SFB-Orlando Sanford Int'l Airport) Thursday September 29. (Domestic flights omitted)

London, England Air Atlanta Europe 844 - B743
London, England Air Atlanta Europe 120 - B743
Manchester, England Air Atlanta Europe 132 - B743
Manchester, England Air Atlanta Europe 444 - B742
London, England Britannia Airways 88A - B763
Birmingham, England Britannia Airways 162A - B763
Newcastle, England Excel Airways 646 - B763
Manchester, England First Choice Airways 96 - B763
Nottingham, England First Choice Airways 12 - B763
London, England Monarch Airlines 307 - B763
Cardiff, Wales Monarch Airlines 313 - A332
Manchester, England MyTravel Airways 43 - A332
London, England MyTravel Airways 47 - A332
Glasgow, Scotland MyTravel Airways 45 - A332
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
mainMAN
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:55 am

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:58 am

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 13):
Holy crap! Is half the UK headed to SFB?

Yes, and you'll find the other half arriving at MCO Big grin
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Thread starter):
The passengers did receive pretzels and water for breakfast.

Glad to see TMA spares no expense in taking care of their stranded passengers.

Quoting ATCRick (Reply 11):
Bologna. Look at yor facts sir. Old fleets? there are small airlines out there with equipment not any older than what the legacy carriers fly. The smaller carriers end to fly late flights because they have no code sharing agreements.

A lot of them do have old fleets. When people are slightly critical of Allegiant and/or smaller carriers in general, you don't have to jump down their throats.

---

TMA should have provided accommodations and meal vouchers to all of the stranded passengers. But, I hear bankruptcy is looming and the carrier will not remain long in this world.

AAndrew
 
RL757PVD
Topic Author
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RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:06 am

Thursday through Sunday is like that at SFB with a little less during the winter. Monday through Wednesday you're lucky to see 1/4 of the list you show for INTL flights.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
RL757PVD
Topic Author
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RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:11 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 15):
TMA should have provided accommodations and meal vouchers to all of the stranded passengers. But, I hear bankruptcy is looming and the carrier will not remain long in this world.

If that proves true, one could say SFB is where airlines go to die

Southeast
JetsGo
Pan Am III/IV...whatever they are on

Each of those in the past year or so with vacation express comming and going over a few years (not in general but at SFB).

I know i posted a while back that if allegiant wants a sustainable Orlando operations that they should move to MCO. If TMA goes, hopefully they'll see the writing on the wall.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
aogdesk
Posts: 748
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:26 am

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 4):
Its too bad that the country is discount driven on every front from Groceries to Appliances to Cars to Travel.
Everyone feels entitled to a discount and the retail industries are ALL entirely to blame. So like I said, you get what you pay for.

Thats fact.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4955
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:25 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 9):
could be days in some cases, as shown.

Actually less than a day in this case.

Looks like there was a little update to the info originally posted. Of course I love the tabloid-level adjectives the TV station used. "trapped"? What did they do, lock the doors to the airport?

Nearly 100 air passengers endured a 14-hour nightmare trying to fly out of Central Florida. They wound up spending a frustrating night trapped in Orlando-Sanford International Airport.

A spokesman for TransMeridian Airlines said normally after an 8-hour delay, passengers are put up in a hotel. But that never happened Wednesday night, leaving dozens stuck for hours with very little information and no place to go.

Finally, the passengers boarded another plane Thursday morning that was flown in from Syracuse, N.Y., but not before they were each handed a comment card.

The passengers did receive pretzels and water at 3 a.m. and then a McDonald's breakfast around 6 a.m.

http://www.wesh.com/news/5034468/detail.html

What I see here as a problem is not which type of airline or airport but simply how the passengers were handled. Obviously not well, which may reflect on other issues involved.

Bad service is bad service, and is not limited to certain types of airlines or airports. Its more a function of the company culture or the situation and timing or the individual employees involved.

These things happen everywhere. I've been treated badly by legacy carriers sometimes when things have gone wrong too.

On one flight on a major carrier, my first leg had problems that caused a delay. We left very late and I missed the connection to FAT at the hub. I wasn't alone, turned out about 30 of us to Fresno who didn't know each other were stuck. The hub employees put us on a flight to LAX and told us not to worry, we would be put up in a hotel in Los Angeles and put on a flight home the next day.

Arriving at LAX about midnight we found no one knew we were coming. It took a while to find employees who could help us. Then we were told no rooms were available and we would have to sleep in the concourse. About 1 or 1:30 AM someone decided to give us blankets and snacks. That was the last time we saw or heard from anyone until 7 AM. No updates, no checks on our needs, nothing.

They may have tried but we ended up being treated like the people in this incident, except it was a major carrier at LAX.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 8):
I am curious if anyone has any specific numbers as to on time performance of charter carriers when compared to scheduled carriers.

Good question, I'd like to see it also. The US govt only provides the info for scheduled carriers with 1% of the passenger market. But I have seen a nice source for the UK. Their charter operators are a different breed than here but it still is interesting to look at. Some are definitely better than others.
http://www.flightontime.info/charter/charter.html
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:36 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 15):

TMA should have provided accommodations and meal vouchers to all of the stranded passengers. But, I hear bankruptcy is looming and the carrier will not remain long in this world.

It's the ABE Christmas curse learing its ugly head again? Last year Southeast, this year TMA? That said of the many people I know here in the valley who've flown TMA, nobody has had any complaints that I've heard.

[Edited 2005-09-30 00:04:10]
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4955
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 15):
Quoting RL757PVD (Thread starter):
The passengers did receive pretzels and water for breakfast.

Glad to see TMA spares no expense in taking care of their stranded passengers.

It appears that was a snack until the concessions opened. See my post above.

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 18):
Quoting Access-Air (Reply 4):
Its too bad that the country is discount driven on every front from Groceries to Appliances to Cars to Travel.
Everyone feels entitled to a discount and the retail industries are ALL entirely to blame. So like I said, you get what you pay for.

Thats fact.

I think it is just that many people no longer know how to provide service or how to manage their employees to give better service. Even in the best of places with higher prices I see employees ignore customers, be rude, etc. It might be the employee or it might be the manager. But at many companies even if you are willing to pay more you don't get treated any better.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
IFLYMCO
Posts: 475
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:17 am

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:12 pm

Just reported on the local Orlando NBC affiliate that TMA will cease "all service" to SFB effective tomorrow.

Did they get it right???
Now it should be "IFLYDCA"
 
Bobs89irocz
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:52 am

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:47 pm

TMA is bankrupt.....OVER. This is in from a fax i recieved and from empolyees (dispachers, pilots, mx) that explains a lot from last night...sorry folks.
 
InTheSky74
Posts: 427
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:25 am

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:50 pm

Sad to see another airline go.

I hope that the employees all find employment. That's the sad part!

Rob
 
146crew
Posts: 176
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:29 am

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:57 pm

Not necessarily old planes, but up until recently TMA layed off every mechanic to save costs, everything was contracted out. That's right not 1 mechanic. It's not like outsourcing scheduled maintenance, but the day to day issues too?
Cross check complete.
 
alphaomega
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:26 pm

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:58 pm

They didn't get rid of all their mechanics...they still had a few in SFB that were TMA.
 
Bobs89irocz
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:52 am

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:26 pm

SFB was the last of the TMA mechanics. Almost all the rest where from Gearbuck? At least the guys in know up here are from their. All the other TMA mechanics that where let go went over to Ryan International. They have a base at RFD.

TMA got ride of most of all there 727's a few months ago. They had between 5-10 757's and MD-80's each.
 
flight7e7
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:26 pm

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:27 pm

Keeping in mind that weather delays generally do not require the carrier, regardless of legacy, LCC or charter to provide restauration or lodging. However, if one carrier would hire some saavy marketers and use a few dollars per ticket to create a weather delay fund....imagine the impression that would make on a planeload of tired, hungry and cranky geese...when an announcement is made that their illustrious carrier of choice will be happy to provide food and shelter (if the situation warrants such during a weather delay). Pax would be incredulous for sure. A clean Hampton Inn and a sandwich/drink bought in volume over a period of time would be an excellent investment-and the ROI on that investment in customer satisfaction and repeat business would increase revenue by gaining customer loyalty.

More money is spent and wasted on useless frequent flyer programs that are nearly impossible to take advantage of, unless you call 364.2 days and 74 minutes prior to your flight and fly from Philadelphia to London via the Seychelles, at midnite the day before your daughter's wedding and get back before your Aunt Tillie's funeral!

Of course, some may accuse me of "being out there" based on the above statement-however, the airlines, all of them, have a habit of promising more than they deliver....If they deliver, on occasion, more than they promise-how blue the friendly skies would be!

In the meantime, pitch a tent behind the ticket counter, raid the vending machines and keep a box of handy wipes in your carry-on and as a hopeless optimist (as I have been tagged) pray that the part to your airplane isn't in Peoria when you are in Frumfratz...and that the "snow flurries" predicted for today (cum blizzard) doesn't last the entire winter. (At least not in DTW on NWA)!

Flying could be fun and with a little bit of marketing genius and a few good bean counters.... bring a bit of prestige back to the industry once again. In the meantime, imagine if indeed the venerable PAA had begun trips to the moon. "Sorry folks, we have had a moon rock strike in our number 2"-"the fan blades and compressors have to be replaced". "Replacement parts are being flown in from the maintenance base, just a few short light years away."

Happy and safe flying, safe being what counts!

A good weekend to all!  mischievous 

PS-Spell check is not working, hence, I take no responsibility for "un" abridging Mr. Webster's dictionary.
 
Jumpseat70
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:52 am

RE: Dozens Stranded At Orlando-Sanford Intl.

Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:07 pm

One summer day, United went on strike at ORD and the ORD airport was engulfed by tremendous thunder storms. I was on the last leg of an 8 leg trip on TWA, when in DAY we were told by the FAA that we would endure what we refer to now as a "ground stop".

It was a full 727 with all sorts of people. After running out of everything, about 2 hours on the ground, I poked my head out of the plane which was parked on the ramp, attached with stairs, not a jetway.

Because it was late in the afternoon, it seemed we were the only plane at the airport. (I found out later that we were.) It seems the gate agents thought we had left and so they went home. HA! Wouldn't be so funny if I was a passenger I guess.

Since I saw no one, I walked into the airport. NO ONE. Finally after an intensive search, I found a lone ramper who gave me the information I wanted.

I ended up calling the airport manager, who was shocked to hear our plight. He returned to the airport, opened the restaurant and ordered up food for all. We spent 8 hours on that runway. We had a joke telling contest and ended up having a helluva time.

It was a 1970's kind of world back then. The cutomers knew we would either cancel or get them out of there. But they knew we'd take care of them. It was an understanding. Plus in 1970, you paid dearly to fly and you recieved what you paid for.
"Up, Up and away with TWA"

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