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B2707SST
Posts: 1289
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:25 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:47 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 49):
And one more thing: Even if the 387 will carry a lot less payload for increased range, then it may not end up with equally reduced floor space. That way it may introduce a new level of comfort at affordable prices. We will see.

The A380 is already a very heavy aircraft for the amount of payload it carries, which somewhat offsets its advantage over the 747-400 in terms of aerodynamics, engine efficiency, and advanced materials. Part of this stems from its double-decker structure, part from the oversizing of the wing and other structures in anticipation of an eventual stretch.

History has not been kind to shrinks; only the A330-200 has really been successful. This is because stretches tend to reduce the OEW per seat or pound of payload while shrinks tend to increase it, since there's a limit to how much weight you can tear out of an existing structure. An A380-700 with equivalent range to the 747ADV would probably be at least 100,000 lbs. heavier. With 787 engines, the 747ADV would match or beat the A387's specific fuel consumption, and aerodynamic and structural improvements would further close the gap.

It's possible that Airbus could use an A387 with A388 fuel capacity for ultra-long haul flights that need more payload capability than the 772LR or A345 can provide. Like the 747SP or rumored 772ULR, this might be a niche good for a few dozen sales. However, on sub-8,000 nm routes where the 747ADV is a viable option, it's hard to see how the A387 could be competitive with such a weight disadvantage.

--B2707SST
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:06 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 32):
Then again, a lot of people used to think Picasso's paintings looked awful.

They still do....the only thing that's different is that some people have become convinced they should pay a lot for ugliness because they're too unimaginative to know their own minds-a case of 'monkey see, monkey do'.

Remember George Orwell? "War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. etc etc..."

How about Ugliness is Beauty?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
aerohottie
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:52 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:08 am

The cost per pax on an A380-900 must be awesome.... fill the plane with cheap seats cause the costs are lower and push your competitors off the route...hehehe
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aerohottie
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:52 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:57 am

I'm sure an A380-800R with a spacious layout (similar to SQ's A345) would have stellar range. Go on say it with me LHR/SYD non-stop!!!
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Slarty
Posts: 302
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:23 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:45 pm

Do you think the new A380 double-decker will do as well as their last double-decker?


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AirPacific747
Posts: 9874
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:12 pm

Quoting Slarty (Reply 54):
Do you think the new A380 double-decker will do as well as their last double-decker?

talking about "cow" looking airplanes  Wink
 
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zeke
Posts: 16309
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:46 pm

I see the following maybe as options :

A380 with GEnx engines as a direct competitor to the 747Adv
A380 combie for people like Eva, two floors cargo, one floor pax
A380 ULH with 450+ passengers (cruise ship of the sky configuration, showers etc with 50% more pax than a 772LR) or 50% more freight than a 744F.
A380Sardine : for high capacity short sector inter city shuttle between major Asian cities.
A380HGW : If history and growth of other types is anything to go by (10-15% increase in MTOW), expect a A80 with a MTOW in excess of 700t (1, 500, 000 lbs)
A380Bogged : Off the side of a taxiway
A380writeoff : Trying to take a large heavy aircraft into a wet runway with a down slope and a tailwind.

The last two happen to just about any aircraft type.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
art
Posts: 4169
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:56 pm

Did anyone spot that in the FI article David Sutton foresees "200 A380 freighters in the marketplace over the next 20 years." Is this plausible (including pax a/c conversions)?
 
A350
Posts: 1076
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:40 am

RE: New Versions Of The A380 Range & Size, 2005-2015

Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Most likely versions (after the A380F):
- A380-800R: from 2010-11 extended range of 8.750 nm with 555 passengers.
- A380-900: from ~2014 with more then 650 passengers.

Why so late? When the A380F is ready, the A380-800R shouldn't be that difficult anymore since the freighter already has a high MTOW. That means that the A380-800R comes together with the A350. And why 2014 for the -900? I have three ideas: first, they don't believe they'll sell a lot (I don't hope so), second, they don't have much capacity until 2010 anyway, and third, they want to backport some A350 technology. Any thoughts?

A350

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