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glidepath73
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Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:11 am

As German radio said right now in the 12.00pm news, a Helios Boeing 737 had to make an emergency landing in Larnaca / Cyprus after some problems had occurred. They didn't talk about further details.
Some more news from our Greek fellow A.netters?

Regards,
Patrick
Aviation! That rocks...
 
DeC
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:34 am

Original source: http://www.phileleftheros.com

Custom summary from the article:

The aircraft took of from Larnaca Airport, Cyprus to Dublin at 18:30 when 10 minutes into flight it experienced air-conditioning system overheating problems so the crew decided to turn back to Larnaca, where it landed safely and smoothly at 19:30. Prior to this, 50 minutes of circling and burning fuel over the town of Paphos took place.

The plane, which is a B737-800, carried 139 passengers and a crew of 7. For the emergency landing, the runway at Larnaca Airport remained closed for about half an hour, something that caused further delays to other flights waiting to depart. Company's spokesman told media that the aircraft will be repaired during the night and will be ready to fly tomorrow morning.

[Edited 2005-10-08 02:35:56]
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Vasu
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:41 am

Wasn't the air conditioning a major player in the helios 733 crash?

Maybe some kind of pattern emerging?
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:49 am

Quoting Vasu (Reply 2):
Wasn't the air conditioning a major player in the helios 733 crash?

Maybe some kind of pattern emerging?

No pattern...

It sounds like one (of the two) A/C packs tripped inflight, which in and of itself is not that big a deal. A single pack operation is permissible (with an altitude restriction to stay at/below FL250), but their fuel to get to Dublin was undoubtedly based on a higher and more efficient FL340. If they didn't have the extra gas onboard to be able continue at the lower altitude now mandated by the single pack, coming back to the departure point seems prudent. Sounds like they had to burn off a little fuel to get below max landing weight.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:57 pm

Why declare Emergency.Shouldn't the extra fuel have been catered too,prior to departure even with two serviceable packs.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
DeC
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:09 pm

No pattern. The aircraft that crashed was an older B737-300, this is a B737-800 NG
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Orion737
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:49 pm

Either way, if I ever fly Helios, i will pack a fur coat. The Air conditioning seems very erratic on board their aircraft!!!

I was wondering how Helios were getting on post crash, I cant see these incidents doing much to enhance the name of the company. Maybe a name change is in the offing.
 
bullpitt
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:04 pm

Goes to show that people will still fly an airline even after a major crash, that has cast some shadows into the operations of that company. Some people will only look at the price of the tkt.

I bet many of those on board were regretting having chosen helios.
These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:09 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 6):
Either way, if I ever fly Helios, i will pack a fur coat. The Air conditioning seems very erratic on board their aircraft!!!

I flew Helios back in 2003, on the very aircraft that crashed, and I must say that I experienced nothing but courtesy and an excellent service while on board. The aircraft was comfortable, the crew were friendly and there were no problems with any systems. Its just hard to accept that someone died sitting in the seat I sat in.
 
Orion737
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:24 pm

Well they did, after turning blue with cold and fright. Helios seems to have more than its fair share of, ahem, air conditioning/cabin temperature problems.
 
DeC
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:54 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 8):
I flew Helios back in 2003, on the very aircraft that crashed, and I must say that I experienced nothing but courtesy and an excellent service while on board. The aircraft was comfortable, the crew were friendly and there were no problems with any systems. Its just hard to accept that someone died sitting in the seat I sat in.

Same here, back in 2004, from Larnaca, Cyprus to Thessaloniki, Greece on the very aircraft that crashed. Excellent flight it was....
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ACEregular
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:22 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 8):
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 6):
Either way, if I ever fly Helios, i will pack a fur coat. The Air conditioning seems very erratic on board their aircraft!!!

I flew Helios back in 2003, on the very aircraft that crashed, and I must say that I experienced nothing but courtesy and an excellent service while on board. The aircraft was comfortable, the crew were friendly and there were no problems with any systems. Its just hard to accept that someone died sitting in the seat I sat in.

According to airfleets Helios did not have this aircraft registered into their fleet until 16th April 2004, are you sure when you Flew Helios it was on 5B-DBY?
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:25 am

I was in Cyprus when the first crash occurred. In fact, I left the day after it happened and I saw the victims' families waiting for their charter flight to ATH. Very sad indeed.

This additional problem guarantees that I will never fly Helios. I always fly Cyprus Airways anyway so it won't be a problem.

JetBluefan1
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:46 am

Quoting ACEregular (Reply 11):
According to airfleets Helios did not have this aircraft registered into their fleet until 16th April 2004, are you sure when you Flew Helios it was on 5B-DBY?

Sorry, got the year wrong, it was 2004 I flew.
 
Hals
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:59 am

Was this latest incident onboard 5B-DBH ? I flew on her 28th September LCA - HUY and had water dripping on me from one of the overhead ac outlets (seat 11A - damn no window here!) for the first hour of the flight. Reported it to a FA who gave me some tissues to try and stop it ! She said it was probably someones water bottle leaking in the overhead bin, yeah right...however, it did stop. Funny thing was there was no water bottle when I retreived my hand baggage at the end of the flight.
Slightly concerning but no big deal really. Wouldn't surprise me if it was "DBH" though...  Smile
 
Orion737
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:37 am

Suprised that water hadnt turned into an ice lolly considering the average temperature on Helios flights these days
 
greenjet
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:09 pm

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 7):
Goes to show that people will still fly an airline even after a major crash, that has cast some shadows into the operations of that company. Some people will only look at the price of the tkt.

People still fly Egypt Air, SilkAir, Royal Air Maroc and Air Botswana despite crashes by suicidal pilots (although the first two have never been fully proved). People still fly American despite their A300 crash in NYC. People still fly Air France despite the fact it took approx 4 hours to issue any sort of statement on the Toronto accident in August.

The media will focus on every little incident Helios has following the Athens accident. In their eyes because it's a small airline and because they probably had never heard of it before then it must be dodgy. As a result they have no problem trying to bring it to its knees. Look what the media did to Excalibur in the 90s.
 
DeC
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:39 pm

Quoting Greenjet (Reply 16):
People still fly Egypt Air, SilkAir, Royal Air Maroc and Air Botswana despite crashes by suicidal pilots (although the first two have never been fully proved).

Well i don’t see what the airlines have to do with these incidents. I think that this can happen any day, to the best airlines as well since it was due to human factor and (possibly) pilots going nuts. Who can guarantee you that the crew flying your well-known and big airline next time is healthy (both mentally and physically) ?
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DeC
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:46 pm

Quoting Greenjet (Reply 16):

The media will focus on every little incident Helios has following the Athens accident. In their eyes because it's a small airline and because they probably had never heard of it before then it must be dodgy. As a result they have no problem trying to bring it to its knees. Look what the media did to Excalibur in the 90s.

I do agree with this though, it’s evident that the media take out selected facts about Helios and oversize when presenting them to the public. It’s a small airline with only 2 aircrafts left (2 B738 NG’s) and everyone has fallen on them in order to destroy them. And all this before any official and final report on the crash gets published, and without anyone knowing for sure whose fault it was. What’s next? “The captain of the ‘x’ Helios Airways flight sneezed and the passengers got panicked” on breaking news?  Yeah sure
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DeC
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:51 pm

Quoting Greenjet (Reply 16):
Royal Air Maroc

If you're talking about this ATR-42-312 / 21 AUG 1994 incident, i think it wasn't confirmed either, from what i know.

From http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19940821-1

" (...) The accident was said to have been caused by the captain disconnecting the autopilot and directing the aircraft to the ground deliberately. The Moroccan Pilot's Union challenged these findings, claiming the pilot had been totally in control of himself prior to departure and that he had shown no signs of frustration of unhappiness in his personal or work life (...) "
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:58 pm

You guys are comparing apples with oranges. The Athens accident has nothing to do with the current snag. Pack trips happen all the time, it just means that a pack shuts down because the pack controller (or in the case of a 737-800 the Zone temperature / pack temperature controller) noticed an overheat situation. One of several overheat sensors told the box that the air at certain stage in the A/C process was getting too hot. This doesn't mean that there is a serious defect. It can be caused e.g. by dirty ram air heat exchangers (e.g. caused by a plastic bag or a piece of paper being sucked into the ram air intake by the ground cooling fan) or by a faulty sensor.

After the preliminary accident investigation report of the Athens crash, the accident was caused by a chain of mistakes made by the pilots, starting from their preflight inspection, when they didn't notice that the cabin pressurisation knob was in the manual position instead of in the auto one (they can fly the plane with the pressurisation system in the manual position, but then the F/O has to watch the cabin altitude and differential pressure gauges on the O/H panel and manually adjust the outflow valve to keep the cabin pressure within limits). Instead they assumed the system to be in the auto position and didn't watch it. Then, due to language problems, there was bad communication between the captain and the F/O. They also didn't know their aircraft, so they didn't recognise the cabin altitude warning horn as such, but thought that it was an erronous take off warning, which can not happen in flight.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
greenjet
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:11 pm

Quoting DeC (Reply 19):
The Moroccan Pilot's Union challenged these findings, claiming the pilot had been totally in control of himself prior to departure and that he had shown no signs of frustration of unhappiness in his personal or work life (...)

Yes but the Virgin Atlantic FO who sadly took his own life recently in the Caribbean didn't show give any indications of subsequent actions either. Nobody knows what anyone else is thinking, and as you rightly say:

Quoting DeC (Reply 17):
Who can guarantee you that the crew flying your well-known and big airline next time is healthy (both mentally and physically) ?



Quoting DeC (Reply 17):
Well i don’t see what the airlines have to do with these incidents. I think that this can happen any day, to the best airlines as well since it was due to human factor and (possibly) pilots going nuts.

The point I was trying to make by giving those airlines as examples was to show that all airlines are susceptible. They might not have experienced the same accident as Helios but they all experienced accidents that asked serious questions about the airline, yet are still flying today.

In the cases of Helios and Onur Air there is a lot of scaremongering going on - firstly by the media and secondly by those who take in everything reported by the media. Every day there are incidents like the Helios one mentioned in this thread. However if Helios had not had the Athens accident would this latest incident have made the media? I don't think so.
 
AA54Heavy
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:58 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 6):
Either way, if I ever fly Helios, i will pack a fur coat. The Air conditioning seems very erratic on board their aircraft!!!



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 9):
Well they did, after turning blue with cold and fright. Helios seems to have more than its fair share of, ahem, air conditioning/cabin temperature problems.



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 15):
Suprised that water hadnt turned into an ice lolly considering the average temperature on Helios flights these days

Dude, we get the point.....it was tongue in cheek the first time, but after that, its annoying and mildly insulting to the people who actually died....
Roger that, turning to our "other" left
 
DeC
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:12 am

Man, it gets even worse for them. The same aircraft involved in the emergency landing the other day (the one mentioned in the beginning of this thread) has performed another one today. The same B738 NG with 184 pax would depart from Larnaca to Glasgow but after a delay of 3,5 hours, it finally took off at 10:30 only to return back at Larnaca airport at 11.05 when a problem with the air bleeding system of one of its engines. The landing was smooth and no injuries occurred. Helios said that they called Boeing engineers to come to Cyprus and examine the aircraft while they grounded it for the time being. They also said that if they won't fly the aircraft 'till they get assertions about its safety from the Boeing engineers themselves.

Link in Greek:
http://www.phileleftheros.com/main/main.asp?gid=334&id=360387
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Hals
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:48 pm

DeC...

Do you know if it was "DBH" or "DBI" involved ?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:08 pm

Quoting DeC (Reply 18):
I do agree with this though, it’s evident that the media take out selected facts about Helios and oversize when presenting them to the public



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 20):
You guys are comparing apples with oranges.

The Media can make things look very different  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
DeC
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RE: Helios 737: Emergency Landing In Cyprus

Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:32 am

Quoting Hals (Reply 24):
DeC...

Do you know if it was "DBH" or "DBI" involved ?

No, i am sorry but all the articles I could find don't mention the registration of the aircraft. On relevant news, Cyprus newspapers and media mention that Helios Technicians with Boeing engineers and members of the Cyprus Civil Aviation Authority test flew the aircraft today, midday along with the pilots and no passengers at all, to determine if it is safe to fly or not. The tests were positive and the same aircraft made a flight from Larnaca to Dublin, flight no. ÆU 772, with 181 pax, 7 crew on 15.30.

Isn’t strange how fast Boeing engineers came in, checked and left in just a day?
DEC

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