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bananaboy
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Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:23 am

From ABTN....

Britannia Airways will disappear as a legal entity on Monday 31 October 2005. On that day the airline becomes Thomsonfly Ltd. In fact the new branding has now been around for some time and is very familiar. Britannia Airways began life in 1962 as Euravia flying holiday charters from Luton and Manchester using a Constellation L-1049. After the takeover of Skyways the fleet widened to six Lockheed Constellations and Avro Yorks. It changed its name to Britannia Airways in 1964 (flying the Bristol aircraft of the same
name) and became part of the Thomson holiday group a year later. The airline’s first Boeing 737 arrived in 1968 and today it is still a dedicated Boeing operator with 20 757s and 13 767s.
 cry 
http://www.abtn.co.uk

Mark
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
vv701
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:38 am

Does that mean all their aircraft will have to be repainted or at least touched up? Every aircraft in the Britannia fleet in World of TUI colours has 'Operated by Britannia Airways Ltd' in red or in white near the forward cabin door.
 
ACEregular
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:09 pm

I will miss the name very much, its been part of my travels and growing hobby of aviation taking me to ALC in 1987 on G-BECG
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and returning on the latter ill-fated G-BGYL
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I am superstitous and was not looking forward to my 13th flight, which was a return flight from Ibiza in 1994 on G-BYAJ
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Scouring the back of the Thomson holiday brochures for flights with an aterix of cross denoted a flight on a 767 and for years I tried to get my parents to book a flight on one but the equiptment was always changed to a 757. I finally stepped onto my first wide body in late summer 1994 on G-BOPB
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a really memorable flight.

In 1995 I flew to Tenerife and back on rare bird G-BPFV
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The one Abiding thing though was that BY had the distinction of a classy charter carrier. to see a BY aircraft decelerate down the runway inbound to take you home was like coming home. Graceful and elegant and always getting me home safe and sound.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:13 pm

How long to Orion posts on what he'll perceive as one of the greatest tragedies in aviation history? Big grin
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Aviation
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:19 pm

Another great Airline Dies...  Sad

Thanks,
Aaron J Nicoli
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mhodgson
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:22 pm

Sad to see them go - one of the mos famous names in the UK airline industry  Sad
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gkirk
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:23 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 3):
How long to Orion posts on what he'll perceive as one of the greatest tragedies in aviation history? Big grin



Quoting Cornish (Reply 4):
Well as its Monday and he "chooses" not to work. I reckon around 2pm BST when he gets up Wink

I'd expect an "I'm gonna kill myself" thread started by Orion737 in non av very shortly  Wink
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bhxforever
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:09 pm

Quoting ACEregular (Reply 2):
Graceful and elegant and always getting me home safe and sound.


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Orion737
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:23 pm

I will miss Britannia. Not just the name, but what they stood for. They were an innovator in the charter market. The first to operate the 737 and then years later the first charter carrier to operate the 767.

They were the first charter airline to offer FREE in flight entertainment when head sets were not charged for but free to use and inside the seat pocket.

They ofered a quality product with their Royal Serivce and later with their 360 service. They made a terrific partner for Thomson holidays and were a winning combination.

They were British and a proud airline with a proud name and reputation.
 
Beany
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:02 pm

Quoting Bhxforever (Reply 10):
Quoting ACEregular (Reply 2):
Graceful and elegant and always getting me home safe and sound.

Nobody died in that accident in Girona so effectively everyone was physically safe and sound. It could have been a great deal worse than it was.

An elderly gentlemen did unfortunately pass away in hospital a few days after the crash but his death as a result of the crash couldn't be proved.
 
aireuropeuk733
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:18 pm

RIP

Sad to see them go - but I suppose that's progess  Sad

AE733
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Orion737
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:29 pm

Its not what I call progress. Its a step backwards. Britannia worked hard inthe 90s to improve their service in line with the then excellent standards set by Air 2000 and Air Europe. They installed in-flight entertainment (even on the old 732s) and didnt charge for headsets and they upgraded the meal service with Royal service and then 360.

Now they have abandoned that and turned into a semi no-frills/pay as you go charter carrier crossbreed.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:47 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 14):
Now they have abandoned that and turned into a semi no-frills/pay as you go charter carrier crossbreed.

 yawn 

Would you rather they rebranded and restructured to survive (albeit as Thomsonfly) or collapsed altogether Orion?

The environment is so different at the moment, the 'frills' you mention are an unnecessary expense now.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
cornish
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:54 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 15):
Would you rather they rebranded and restructured to survive (albeit as Thomsonfly) or collapsed altogether Orion?

The environment is so different at the moment, the 'frills' you mention are an unnecessary expense now.

The moment the LCCs became a significant force, the charter market was always going to have to change to survive....
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
whitehatter
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:01 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 15):
Would you rather they rebranded and restructured to survive (albeit as Thomsonfly) or collapsed altogether Orion?

He seems to live in some befuddled 1950s vision of genteel airlines serving rubber chicken and Earl Grey to their lounge suit attired passengers.

BY? Get the fork. It's done. Much as it pains me to see an old friend pass away, TOM is the way to go for the future with TUI's investment. Operators such as First Choice are now literally crapping themselves as their much-vaunted 'superior' operations are in fact in severe danger of falling off the profit cliff. Hence hastily put together poster campaigns comparing their seat pitch with BA flights.

Crossmarketing traditional BY flights with TOM's lowcost approach is clever and bound to attract bums on seats. And that's all that counts. The rantings of sad loonies about nice trays and only-slighly-burnt omlettes with a frozen core does not feed the bulldog.

You adapt or die. Darwin at work. The leisure traveller has changed, the airlines have to change too. Today's holidaymaker wants cheap and reliable service and nothing else on that 2 hour shorthaul, and for longhaul even cheaper. I'm afraid that doesn't leave much room for grey mash and rubber chicken in the budget.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Orion737
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:09 pm

What a narrow and simplistic view. I do think that many customers are now demanding lower fares but there are also many discerning holidaymakers who miss the days of the hot towels, menu cards and extra touches that made jetting off on holiday the begining of your holiday!

BY and Thomson together, were seen as a quality combination. Offering a good on board service and a quality holiday.

Reduing their service levels means that there is nothing to now differentiate them from easyJet and the like, which is probably why a bulk of the traditional charter customers have switched to their low cost rivals, there is nothing 'extra' to be gained by flying charter except a higher ticket price,

Its likely that charter carriers, by their very nature wont be able to compete with the lower cost bases of the LCCs so why not compete by offering an enhanced product and service?
 
cornish
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:29 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 18):
What a narrow and simplistic view. I do think that many customers are now demanding lower fares but there are also many discerning holidaymakers who miss the days of the hot towels, menu cards and extra touches that made jetting off on holiday the begining of your holiday!

BY and Thomson together, were seen as a quality combination. Offering a good on board service and a quality holiday.

Reduing their service levels means that there is nothing to now differentiate them from easyJet and the like, which is probably why a bulk of the traditional charter customers have switched to their low cost rivals, there is nothing 'extra' to be gained by flying charter except a higher ticket price,

all very well for the minoirty, but if you are the average British family of four, then price is most often the deciding factor on choosing who they buy their holiday from/fly with.

as has been said before - its only anoraks that by and large choose their package holiday based on the airline they fly on - the vast majority by far, choose the resort first and foremost, with price as the deciding factor. they do not think "oooh I can fly Monarch on this holiday I'll take them", or whoever.

and with the package holiday market seeing greate competition than ever before, with so much over capcity in terms of holidays/hotel nights on offer, then they have to cut costs big time to compete - remember this is as more about the parent holiday companies, not the charter carrier themselves.

They are having to adapt to survive - adding quality food is not going to suddenly see more people buying package holidays.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 18):
Reduing their service levels means that there is nothing to now differentiate them from easyJet and the like, which is probably why a bulk of the traditional charter customers have switched to their low cost rivals,

Its notihng to do with reduced service levels - people have switched to LCCs becase they have either bought property or timeshares abroad and so just require a seat only, or they are independently booking their hotels and flights - not buying a package holiday. LCCs have just made it easier and more cost effective to do this.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 18):
Its likely that charter carriers, by their very nature wont be able to compete with the lower cost bases of the LCCs so why not compete by offering an enhanced product and service?

Why not ? - in many respects, some of the key LCC methods are some that have been used by the charter carriers for years - high daily utilisation, quick turnarounds, etc, etc....
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Orion737
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:39 pm

It is true that many British people have invested in property. be it villas, apartments or timeshare but the fact remains that they only make up a very small proportion of holidaying Brits.

Despite falling from favour, the majority of Brits holidaying abroad still do so by package holiday purchased via a tour operator. Many are though switching to the LCCs like Easyjet tyo Spain and then making their own accommodation and transfer arrangements.

Part of this is becasue you look in holiday brochures nowadays and what is still sold as a 'package holiday' isnt really a package in the traditional sense: It dosent include in-flight meals, and often even coach transfers, they are available but have to be added on to the 'basic' price shown in the price panels.

This leads passengers to think well, if i have to pay for these things and they are not included I may as well get a cheao flight with EZY and pay for my own transfers and food.

They feel resentful that tour operators are charging extra for what used to always been included and feel they are being ripped off.

[Edited 2005-10-10 15:41:09]
 
cornish
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:49 pm

i don't know why i even bother posting - its not sinking in is it.....?
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Orion737
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:01 pm

A large chunk of Charter airlines customers are switching to LCCs, despite overseas accommodation ownership, while increasing, still makes up only a tiny proportion of overseas holidaymakers.

Instead of desperatley trying to offer a cheaper fare than the no-frills airlines, why dont charter carriers upgrade their service (a la FCA) and try and differentiate themselves from the LCCS.

Why dont the parent tour operators stop charging extra for 'meals' transfers' fuel surcharges' etc and just show an 'all in' package holiday price which is convenient to the customer.

[Edited 2005-10-10 16:01:56]

[Edited 2005-10-10 16:02:37]
 
gkirk
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:04 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 22):

Why dont the paretn tour operators stop charging extra for 'meals' transfers' fuel surcharges' etc and just show an 'all in' package holiday price which is convenient to the customer.

If you book a holiday with meal included this year, you'll find it's probably the same price as around 5 years ago. If you don't get the meal, it's cheaper
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Orion737
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:06 pm

Full marks muct go to the MyTavel group on this. They started charging extra for in flight meals and transfers and found many passengers were turned off by all these extra charges being added on to their holiday.

They recognised, partly though their experiment with myTravellite that they would find it difficult to compete on price with other LCCs and so reinstated the meals and tried to improve the quality and reduce the complexity of their package holidays.

The key to the long term success of the package holiday has always been the convenience. Its time tour operators stopped trying to be something they are not (an LCC).
 
cornish
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:08 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 22):
A large chunk of Charter airlines customers are switching to LCCs, despite overseas accommodation ownership, while increasing, still makes up only a tiny proportion of overseas holidaymakers

yes but then add in thos epeople who are independently booking flights and holidays...

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 22):
Instead of desperatley trying to offer a cheaper fare than the no-frills airlines, why dont charter carriers upgrade their service (a la FCA) and try and differentiate themselves from the LCCS.

Why dont the parent tour operators stop charging extra for 'meals' transfers' fuel surcharges' etc and just show an 'all in' package holiday price which is convenient to the customer.

Overcapacity in the package holiday market, overcapacity in the package holiday market, overcapacity in the package holiday market.

You have to look at the bigger picture Orion. The tour operators are cutting prices to the bone due to too much competition, chronic overcapacity and falling demand for holidays - this then impacts on the charter carriers themselves. any way they can cut costs now to remain competitive they will.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
cornish
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:10 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 24):
Full marks muct go to the MyTavel group on this. They started charging extra for in flight meals and transfers and found many passengers were turned off by all these extra charges being added on to their holiday.

They recognised, partly though their experiment with myTravellite that they would find it difficult to compete on price with other LCCs and so reinstated the meals and tried to improve the quality and reduce the complexity of their package holidays.

mmmm MyTravel being a fine example to hold up of a holiday company completely in the cack financially....

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 24):
The key to the long term success of the package holiday has always been the convenience. Its time tour operators stopped trying to be something they are not (an LCC).

No - the price has always been the key to success.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Orion737
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:15 pm

Yes but by constantly cutting back on the service they provide they are further ailienating their customers, who now know that they can get a cheap flight to Spain on easjet and so tour operators and their charter carriers need to offer something 'more' so passengers can see they are getting something extra they wouldnt get flying with EZY or FR.

I remember reading that Errol Cossey, a man who knows a thing or two about charter airlines having set up AE, Air 2000 and FCA, said that through purchasing foodstuffs when cheap and in season and then freezing and using ready frozen meals which were much less labour intensive, the charter carriers were able to offer a decent quality hot meal for actually very little money.

If customers knew that they would get a meal with a charter airline but not with EZY then that might be a reason to choose a charter carrier. price will still be a consideration, but of course, however, passengers will think they are getting at least something extra, that is tangible!!!!
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:18 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 18):
but there are also many discerning holidaymakers who miss the days of the hot towels, menu cards and extra touches that made jetting off on holiday the begining of your holiday

There is not though Orion. If there was why are airlines cutting capacity in premium cabins on many short haul routes? Even removing premium cabins altogether.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 20):
It is true that many British people have invested in property. be it villas, apartments or timeshare but the fact remains that they only make up a very small proportion of holidaying Brits.

Dont you see the hypocrisy? You acknowledge not enough people require the 'full service' of charter carriers of old, but still you rant on about how they should maintain certain standards!

How do you propose the carriers maintain these standards without increasing their cost base? Inevitably pricing themselves out of the market (eg. First Choice) and thus driving more and more passengers to the LCC's.

As much as we'd all like to see the 'old days' return, we all, including you, have to accept those days are gone. I accept that flying Ryanair is the cheapest way for me to get to airport XYZ, and you must accept that if you want menu cards, cutlery and 109 year old cabin crew with stuck up noses, then you have to ask Granny to buy you business class in future!

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
jmc757
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:40 pm

Sad to see the name go, but rather see them adapt and change with the market, than remain stagnant and seal their own fate. I assume from November we'll be seeing TOMxxxA?

I could also post a response to Orion, but its not worth it. Anyone with a grasp of the market knows the score. Let him be. One point though -

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 24):
Full marks muct go to the MyTavel group on this. They started charging extra for in flight meals and transfers and found many passengers were turned off by all these extra charges being added on to their holiday.

They recognised, partly though their experiment with myTravellite that they would find it difficult to compete on price with other LCCs and so reinstated the meals and tried to improve the quality and reduce the complexity of their package holidays.

Only today I was looking at holidays for my parents looking to get away at the end of the month, and found this courtesy of MyTravel.com:

ADULT BASIC PRICE £289.00 2 £578.00
FUEL CHARGE £25.00 2 £50.00
FLIGHT MEAL £10.00 2 £20.00
LATE BOOKING FEE £12.00 2 £24.00

Total £672.00

Inclusive meals? Full Marks?

[Edited 2005-10-10 16:41:11]
 
bhxforever
Posts: 549
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:49 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 23):
If you book a holiday with meal included this year, you'll find it's probably the same price as around 5 years ago. If you don't get the meal, it's cheaper

Gkirk is spot on. If people want a meal they still have the option to buy one. In all fairness this is the only thing thats changed, now you have the option of not having the rubber omlette thrust infront of you. As for your bleating about hot towels *who cares* if you love them so much fly Monarch Scheduled.

TOM have also recently upgraded their interiors with new seats which actually increase legspace, and now offer higher frequencies to many popular holiday destinations, so it can be argued it has changed for the better!
 
AIHTOURS
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:52 pm

Personally, I can't really complain. The Britannia brand has really been gone for a while now, and myself, like any others have adjusted to the new TUI concept and the new brand in the sky's, Thomsonfly.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 14):
Its not what I call progress. Its a step backwards. Britannia worked hard inthe 90s to improve their service in line with the then excellent standards set by Air 2000 and Air Europe. They installed in-flight entertainment (even on the old 732s) and didn't charge for headsets and they upgraded the meal service with Royal service and then 360.

Have you flown with Thomson since the brand change? I have, and in my eyes they are still the best Charter Airline for introducing new things. For example the presentation on the website. What other Airlines do you see doing something like that? Another example is the little book you get with your tickets, which has details of your resort, the Airports and even the baggage labels preprinted! The little things you always bang on about Orion!

They have invested in the fleet amongst other things:

Brand new digiplayers. Brand new interiors for the 757s. The Boeing 767-200s receiving new leather seats in time for the Australian flights, two of these 762s getting a Premium Cabin. New Premium Cabin to be introduced after an evaluation. Hot Towels and Juice to be introduced on inbound flights in the main cabin. The Long-Haul 767-300s getting seat-back TV in-time for 2007. The Short-Haul 767-300s getting leather seats. These are the improvements for the flights Balboy said here. Take it or leave it, it's there. Sounds excellent though.

As for complaining about things not being free, weve been over that before.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 18):
BY and Thomson together, were seen as a quality combination. Offering a good on board service and a quality holiday.

The World of TUI consists of quality brands. One of their main aims was to link tour operators, airlines, hotels, travel agents and all the coaches under one quality brand. Which is what they all are, quality brands all integrated together.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 18):
Reduing their service levels means

The service has not changed one single bit. The staff are all still friendly and the Airline still offers their services very well.


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RayChuang
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:17 am

I think if TUI had come up with a better livery for their airliners people would not be complaining so much. The current TUI livery doesn't look good, especially the TUI logo, which looks like a water closet.  vomit 
 
gilesdavies
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:23 am

Sad to see Britannia Airways go, but we all move on...

The hangers at LTN already where the ThomsonFly signs.

The new LCC services they are offering to Spain from a number of UK regional airports is a bit of a con!

The "scheduled" services are actually just their usualy charter flights and offering a number of seats through their LCC website.

I have checked the timings and all of the flights out of Luton are not ddtional flights but just the same usual charters they will be operating anyway. So it must prove their is over capacity in the charter market for package holidays and in order to sell these seats they need to sell them as flight onlys.
 
aireuropeuk733
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:25 am

Quoting AIHTOURS (Reply 31):
Britannia brand has really been gone for a while now, and myself, like any others have adjusted to the new TUI concept and the new brand in the sky's, Thomsonfly.

Something that AIHTOURS and I agree on!!

I fully appreciate that Orion is sad to see the name go (so too am I) but I'd rather they stayed around as Thomsonfly than go under as Britannia.

As a parent of 2 I can categorically state that price IS a major consideration hen booking a holiday. If I can save a few quid by not having a meal on a 2 hour flight, I will!

Who knows, maybe one day when the whole avaition scene has come full circle, we'll see the name reappear.


AE733
It's nice to fly with friends
 
whitehatter
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:59 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 33):
The "scheduled" services are actually just their usualy charter flights and offering a number of seats through their LCC website.

which all the other operators are doing. They operate to a schedule so with the blurring of lines why not sell them as scheduled?

Integrating the services means income streams over and above the full or part charter model which IT airlines used to have to adhere to rigidly. Remember the affinity charter fiasco of the 60s and 70s? Those operations helped drive prices down on the scheduled carriers. Imaginative thinking in the IT trade creating change.

BY has had to move with the times or die. TUI group are vertically integrating their operations and bringing some new thinking to the operation, which can only be a good thing. With the advent of Jet2 and Ryanair plus the others selling what amounts to a whole holiday off one website, they have no choice but to cut out waste and become dynamic in the marketplace.

When you have operators like Air Atlanta/Excel and the various Turkish carriers hacking away at your core business with cheaper wholesale costs to the tour operator competition, it means you either get smart quickly or die out. Rebranding BY as part of Thomson is one move which goes to the core of TUI's thinking; make it appear to the traveller that they are buying an integrated holiday experience. Cutting out waste and outdated service options keeps it competitive on a wholesale cost basis.

The upside of the TOM integration is that TUI can also sell into the lowcost traveller market where they have capacity available. Darwin again. Evolve or die. The new TOM entity is taking the best elements of BY and fusing it with a retail lowcost division, meaning fuller aircraft flying at lower costs and making a profit.

Unfortunately as often and as comprehensively as people here and on other forums debunk Orion737 and his rose coloured vision of charter flying, he keeps repeating the same old tired nonsense. Maybe one day he'll get up early and see the world as it really is, and that people with much more qualification than he could ever hope to have are the ones with the right ideas about how the charter industry is going to move. His precious First Choice example is one which is in danger of coming crashing down in flames, precisely due to the kind of thinking he seems to think is the right way to run an airline.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
AIHTOURS
Posts: 323
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:30 am

Quoting AirEuropeUK733 (Reply 33):
Something that AIHTOURS and I agree on!!

Well it was going to happen one day Big grin

WhiteHatter has explained very well why the changes are good, and why it is important that they do what they are doing.  bigthumbsup 

There was a television programme on quite a while ago which was about Thomsonfly. Some of the things it featured was employees explaining why they need to evolve and change their business and their image. The programme expressed Thomson's vision to concentrate on flexibility as far as holidays were concerned, as not all people want to go down the package holiday route. It was about how they are creating a package suited to what the customer wants and their needs. If you think about how big the World of TUI is, you can imagine all the options for a traveller. If you haven't already watched the presentation on the website, have a look as it is very useful.

As for First Choice, I've heard the loads on the East Midlands Long-Haul flights have been excellent. Could you expand a bit more WhiteHatter?  sun 


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speedbird19
Posts: 286
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:42 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 31):
I think if TUI had come up with a better livery for their airliners people would not be complaining so much. The current TUI livery doesn't look good, especially the TUI logo, which looks like a water closet. vomit

I think that their livery is sweet, its more bold and stands out, and fair enough the whole TUI thing is a bit confusing with Hapag Lloyd's TUI livery but i think it stands out and you know straight away it's a ThomsonFly or part of the TUI group.
Planeprincess
 
Orion737
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:20 am

I concede on that point. The Tui brand has uniformity and recognition across the whole of the different countries airlines.

I am sad to see the patriotic and proud Britannia name disapear as I am sure many of its employees and passengers are. I feel it was an unnecessary move. i think the Tui livery but retaining the britannia name would have been a mopre acceptable compromise, which showed the Tui links but kept a well regarded airline name.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:08 am

We are aviation enthusiasts, most of joe public aren't. They've never heard of Tui, and if they have they probably think it's a type of Chinese seaweed. The fact that Hapag and Thomson now look the same means nothing. Britannia was a known and successful brand. Great name, great logo, now replaced by a meaningless symbol and nasty LCC style .com bunch of cobblers on the side.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
Lowsonboy
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:19 am

I couldn't read this thread without passing some comment and I have a couple of points to make....
- IMHO it is a great shame to see the Britannia name being pahsed out, Thomsonfly.com justs sounds so horribly cheap. Many pax arrive at LGW (where I work) and ask (puzzled) where Britannia check-in is as they are standing in front of the TOM signage and naff light blue colour scheme.
Say what you like about charter airlines having to adapt to pax not giving a stuff about who they fly with but it seems to me BY had a core of loyal travellers who deliberately chose to fly with them because they have the reputation (justified or not) as one of the UK's most respected and reliable "holiday" airlines.
- AIHTOURS - the new interiors make, for example, XL's 757s and 767s look very tatty, but at the end of the day, it's still a high density charter config (290 in a 762, 235 in a 752) so you are going to be uncomfortable whether or not you have a 777 style interior.
- If BY have become a LCC style carrier, someone should really tell some of their totally up themselves flight deck and cabin crew.
- Universal branding doesn't always work... does it Thomas Cook/Condor?
- Did I mention the name... errrgh!...
 
rdwootty
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:29 am

There is one point that is missing from this thread.
If you book a thomsonfly seat with Thomson holidays or with a travel agent then the seat is bonded and all monies are safe and it is under the rules, if there is another service provided, of the package holiday regulations. This gives peace of mind if there is a problem. However if you book the same seat on thomsonfly website and then go to the accommodation link and book an hotel.NO bonding. NO cover under package holiday regulations and so there is a major difference. Unfortunately this is NOT clear !! so ,although I understand that thomsonfly needs to sell " Unbonded" packages to compete |I just wonder what will happen if the customer expects a safety net and it is not there. By the way this has always been the case with Easy/Ryanjet.In addition Thomson Holidays are reducing the amount of the CAA bond to reflect this new policy. It will end in tears mark my word
 
alcregular
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:48 am

I will be so sad to see the Britannia name go. BY was the first airline I flew with on route NCL-GRO-NCL way back in 1999 and flew with them on many occasions. They were one of those companies that you thought of when you heard the words charter airline, just like you would for Boots when you hear pharmacy. I think they should have kept Britannia Airways as the charter airline, and just used Thomsonfly as a LCC. R I P Britannia, you will never be forgotten  crying 
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Orion737
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:43 pm

Except by Tui who seem happy to dump the name Britannia and pretend it never existed by`removing all reference to it. First they just wanted to get rid of the Britannia livery and replace it with tui livery but they and Gurassa of Britannia assured everyone that they wouldnt ditch the Britannia name.

Next they painted Thomson.co.uk over the front and kept a minute, 'operated by Britannia' sticker atthe front. Now they feel they can quietly ditch the Britannia name altogether, which is what they wanted in the first place. they just did it gradually to appease people within britannia who had worked so hard to get the brand recognised and valued.
 
bananaboy
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:05 pm

As much as I have fond memories of the Britannia name and brand, I think it was the right thing to do to align the company under one brand.

In the past, it did seem like a bit of a "mish-mash" of brands.. you want to fly Britannia but couldn't actually book with Britannia.. you would have to book with a Tour Op.

The new structure seems simple and transparent.

Sad to see the name go, but things need to evolve.

Mark
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:49 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 40):
First they just wanted to get rid of the Britannia livery and replace it with tui livery but they and Gurassa of Britannia assured everyone that they wouldnt ditch the Britannia name.

Never misquote Orion. What Gurassa said was that they had no plans to debrand Britannia. Whether they did have these plans or not is different from them saying they would keep it indefinately (which is what you seem to have interpreted.)

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 40):
they just did it gradually to appease people within britannia who had worked so hard to get the brand recognised and valued

You know this, or your blinkered vision assume's this?

7LBAC111
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AIHTOURS
Posts: 323
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:23 am

Andrew, that's your opinion and I respect that. As I respect everyones opinions.

Quoting Lowsonboy (Reply 37):
- AIHTOURS - the new interiors make, for example, XL's 757s and 767s look very tatty, but at the end of the day, it's still a high density charter config (290 in a 762, 235 in a 752) so you are going to be uncomfortable whether or not you have a 777 style interior.

It is a fact that the Configuration of the Cabin hasn't changed. But I don't see anything wrong with making the Cabin a nicer place to be and improving the flying experience for passengers. Some people may be uncomfortable, but the new interiors are an improvement over the old 360 and Stripey Cabin's from whats been said.

As for universal branding, I am sure they would have noticed if the move wasn't going to work after whats been 5 years since Preussag puchased Thomson.

AIHTOURS  

[Edited 2005-10-11 17:26:12]
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airworlda320
Posts: 306
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:29 am

Shame BY will be sadly missed and by the way

Quoting ACEregular (Reply 2):
In 1995 I flew to Tenerife and back on rare bird G-BPFV

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I Flew G-BPFV myself to Mallorca (Magaluf/S**galuf) and back to Manchester with my buddies in the 90s I seem to recall when I was young free and single!!!!! Those were the days!!!!!!!

[Edited 2005-10-11 20:30:38]
Pull off kid, it ill go.
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:32 am

yes, those were the days my friend!

I went away with my mates when I was in the 6th form to tenerife and we flew on Britannia. Fond memories.
 
airworlda320
Posts: 306
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:36 am

Only trouble is Orion737 we were all sat on the middle row no window seats!!!!
Good friendly cabin crew.
Pull off kid, it ill go.
 
sausageandmash
Posts: 52
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:41 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 14):
Operators such as First Choice are now literally crapping themselves as their much-vaunted 'superior' operations are in fact in severe danger of falling off the profit cliff. Hence hastily put together poster campaigns comparing their seat pitch with BA flights.



Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 32):
His precious First Choice example is one which is in danger of coming crashing down in flames, precisely due to the kind of thinking he seems to think is the right way to run an airline.

Er?

And your financial information comes from where exactly? I love the way you all think you know everything and can make such "qualified" statements. The First Choice poster campaigns were not in fact "hastily" put together, but well thought out from the start. The legroom comparison between FCA and other airlines was present over a year before the first revamped 767 went into operation.

And tell me, if First Choice is in danger of crashing down in flames, why:
a) are longhaul bookings higher than ever before?
b) are 6 767s going to be in the fleet before the introduction of 6 787s (compared to just 2 767s last year)?
c) is the Air Therapist service being extended to all longhaul flights after a very successful trial on Mexico routes?
d) has customer feedback from the Star Class and Star Class Premier service gone through the roof in the positive?
e) are First Choice now planning on developing their short haul service along the lines of long haul?

I could go on but am frankly bored of repeating myself.

It's called vertical integration. Get used to it.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 24):
I remember reading that Errol Cossey, a man who knows a thing or two about charter airlines having set up AE, Air 2000 and FCA

Orion, surely someone of your knowledge would know that Errol Cossey had nothing to do with setting up FCA? Errol Cossey has not been anywhere near Air 2000 or First Choice for a very long time. Do you not know that FCA is the same as what used to be Air 2000? Surely you know this? Surely?????
Hello - it's me again
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2788
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:47 am

Easily one of the worst rebradnings in airline history. Hideous scheme, pathetic name. Sad to see Britannia go.
 
jetset7e7
Posts: 1009
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RE: Britannia Finally Disappears End October

Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:59 am

Will the ATC callsign still be Britannia? I guess the titles will stay at the front of each aircraft?


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