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jasond
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Jetstar To Go International?

Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:50 pm

I caught half a news item on Channel 9 this evening suggesting that Jetstar, the Qantas LC subsidiary, were going to be operating on international routes shortly, the headline they used was "Jetstar to bring down international airfares...". Being a little sceptical I checked both Jetstar and Qantas websites but found no information in their respective news sections. Were Channel 9 talking crap or is there more to this??
 
RichardJF
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:22 pm

What is the logic of this when they already have Australian Airlines?
 
QF108
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:23 pm

Have just seen the story on replay on Sky News, from 'Sunday' on Channel 9. Qantas are planning on starting international routes with Jetstar, the story stated that they will be mainly Asian cities no longer served by Qantas or new routes, Kuala Lumpur was mentioned as a possibility. There was mention that Jetstar will be needing new aircraft to operate on the new International routes and that orders are expected in the next 2 months no talk on what they would be. Jetstar Asia is also likely to expand according to the report with Thailand and Hong Kong likely hubs. At this stage it was also mentioned that Australian Airlines will continue to operate.
The story is on ninemsn.com follow the links to the business sunday page and a transcript of the story is available.

[Edited 2005-10-16 14:34:45]
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rushed
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:45 pm

i think you will find that they are referring to the launch of jetstar to new zealand.. which happens over the next few months i think? dunno about jetstar to asia... maybe from up north, but not from mel/syd.. too far..
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QF108
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:52 pm

Blessed are the Cheesemakers !
 
jasond
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:36 pm

Thanks all, I didn't catch the whole bulletin as I was having to deal with a toddler crisis at the time. You have confirmed there was some substance to this story.
 
tsentsan
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:43 pm

Quoting QF108 (Reply 2):
Jetstar Asia is also likely to expand according to the report with Thailand and Hong Kong likely hubs

Without a doubt Jetstar Asia is expanding. They almost entirely killed the entire ValuAir network leaving only cities that 3K does not fly to (eg Jakarta, Surabaya). With the additional aircraft, I'm sure they are able to expand to more destinations. One thing though, 3K does not want their crew to overnight at the other destinations, so its likely they will not be expanding too far into the region.
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TBCITDG
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:10 am

I was thinking about the same thing. What will become of Australian Airlines?
The reason that I ask this, is that if Jetstar International have a lower cost base than that of Australian, would it not then become cheaper for them to solely operate JetStar International? Keeping in mind the huge 'cost saving' strategy that QF is conducting.
I am sure that New Zealand will be the first place to be served by JetStar international, though it also raises a few more question
How much of a financial impact would this have on NZ?
Would they fly to AKL? Keeping in mind that business class traveler would not be too happy if they had to fly 'budget'
What of EK and their product across the Tasman? I for one would rather fly them to Christchurch and not a low cost carrier across the pond!
 
antares
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:35 am

The Qantas plan to expand Jetstar to long haul deals with a number of issues.

Firstly. It is a response to a serious decline in the proportion of passengers flying in premium cabins and actually paying for them.

This deterioration has been gradually going on for years, and not just at Qantas or in these markets, but in general, while business travel is important and indeed growing strongly on some routes, the willingness or capacity to pay premium fares is in decline.

Secondly. A long range Jetstar will address routes that Qantas has abandoned or neglected in terms of flying its own aircraft. They are likely to include Manchester, Amsterdam, Rome and Honolulu. This has the material strategic value of also attacking part of the base load traffic in EK,SQ and TG who have all intelligently and diligently worked up a good franchise in one stop flights to leisure or low yield destinations that require a transfer over London if flown by Qantas, rendering price matching those deals a loss making exercise.

Thirdly. The new carrier will develop new routes. It may even try to make Darwin or Perth to Frankfurt/Munich work, simply because EK now dominates the German inbound market, and is threatening to use a high capacity format in an A380 to Adelaide where it just happens to have unlimited traffic rights.

I note that one of the national aviation writers has discovered that half the Germans who fly to Australia each year spend half their time in the red centre and top end and really couldn't give a potatoe dumpling if they arrive and depart from a secondary airport as they are going to 'do' Sydney, Melbourne and the Gold Coast anyhow in trips surveyed as lasting between 6-12 weeks.

Fourthly. The long haul Jetstar will be used to collapse the benefits and unsatisfactory productivity of mainline Qantas long haul (in the opinion of management), just as Jetstar domestic is now entering the crunch phase of migrating its work practices but please the Almightly not all of its propduct standards to core domestic city pairs. Prediction. Significant Jetstar long haul maintenance and staffing will be offshored.

Fifthly. Jetstar long haul will in time seek to fly non-stop to Vancouver which has pathetic business travel support, and it will pay close attention to cheap flights pout of Brisbane to destroy and demoralise any Virgin Blue plan to capitalise on its Air Queensland stature as a launch pad for trans Pacific services. I'm inclined to the view that it will in fact destroy any desire by the Virgin Blue board to enter the long haul market through a new subsidiary.

Sixthly. The long haul jetstar isn't going to take much pressure off the core A380 routes to London, since the passengers that Qantas is seeking to recapture with the new division aren't flying on its jets to Heathrow anyhow, and in many cases will be smart enough not to do so twice if they have to make a transfer there to get to some other destination.

Fine print. I may be wrong about all of the above...but I don't think so and I have reasonable grounds for coming to these views.

Antares
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:51 am

Quoting Antares (Reply 8):
Fine print. I may be wrong about all of the above...but I don't think so and I have reasonable grounds for coming to these views.

Antares

Antares, agree on all points. Expect a major announcement over the next few months...

JQ international will happen. it's not a matter of if, but when!
 
blrBird
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:45 am

Why would Jetstar start routes to Asia? Can't JetstarAsia (49% owned by Qantas) do the same for them? 3K can launch SIN-AUS routes given more aircrafts with longer range.
from star dust....
 
TG990
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:37 am

Jetstar are flying routes CHC- Aussie ports from 1st December already.
 
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:43 pm

What will cabin service be like on Jetstar International? Surely it won't be anything like Jetstar domestic for routes to Asia and beyond?

Or will it be a clone of the AO model?

JQ Int'l makes nil sense to me when they already have a low-cost leisure brand flying internationally. I (still) can't understand why QF is not talking about expanding AO in all of this ... but I'm sure there's a reason.
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Sydscott
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:04 pm

Quoting Antares (Reply 8):
I note that one of the national aviation writers has discovered that half the Germans who fly to Australia each year spend half their time in the red centre

That's because the closet those same aviation writers get to the red centre is 35,000 feet.  Smile

Quoting Antares (Reply 8):
A long range Jetstar will address routes that Qantas has abandoned or neglected in terms of flying its own aircraft.

I'd have thought JQ Long haul was a little while off yet. Now that JQ Asia is flying to Indonesia, I'd have thought that that would be the first Asian destination for JQ Australia especially from Perth, Adelaide and Darwin to Bali. Then there are other opportunities at Jarkarta and Surabaya for JQ Australia flights to meet Valuair/JQ Asia flights. Then some A320 expansion to & within New Zealand as JQ Asia continues to expand from Singapore. That way the Qantas group could boast an integrated Asian/Australian/South Pacific LCC as a base for its expansion.

Quoting Antares (Reply 8):
Jetstar long haul will in time seek to fly non-stop to Vancouver which has pathetic business travel support,

Surely Air Canada wouldn't be flying the route as often as they are if they weren't making money from the front of the plane?? Besides which during the ski season they'd probably have a fairly decent stream of revenue from excess baggage with everyone carting their ski's from OZ to Whistler etc.
 
antares
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:38 pm

Sydscott,

Jetstar heavy is supposed to do to Qantas international what Jetstar (light?) did to domestic. It will get some existing Qantas routes to give it critical mass, and we'll all be amazed at how few real premium passengers were on those routes when this happens. It will develop new routes, claw back lost business, and develop new business. It is understood to be aiming for very low seat costs which to my addled brain means rather large jets, certainly larger than the A322s that might end up there in the early days.

Antares
 
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mariner
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:41 pm

Quoting Antares (Reply 15):
Jetstar heavy is supposed to do to Qantas international what Jetstar (light?) did to domestic.

So the question remains - I think - unanswered: what about Australian Airlines?

Wasn't it supposed to do all this Jetstar Heavy stuff? Was it just a big ol' waste of time and money?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:14 pm

Antares;
Any insight as to what will become of AO??
Would any one that is employed there at the moment be worried?
 
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zeke
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:27 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 16):
So the question remains - I think - unanswered: what about Australian Airlines?

Good question, staying at 5x767s for some time now, no expansion. Might be a mechanism Qantas may use to launch Jetstar International, by using the Australian Airlines Air Operator Certificate. I think they may already have ETOPS and rights to fly to many places in Asia ?

Maybe they plan to start similar to the way Jetstar started, Impluse->Qantas Link->Jetstar, maybe we will see an Australian Airlines -> Jetstar International ?
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antares
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:38 pm

The fate of AO is unclear. At first there was an assumption going around that JQ
heavy' was just a ploy to 'heavy' AO people to embrace further workplace reforms.

Then there were comments from QF people that AO would not overlap with JQ heavy, which didn't seem the full dollar either.

So I'm as much in the dark over that as most people seem to be.

However it is fair to say that Australian has not achieved what was wanted, in part because it was launched when SARS struck, and in part perhaps because it just didn't work as planned.

Antares
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:00 pm

Hmmm. Quite interesting.

One would think they'd have to merge AO and JetStar. Maybe push some of the 763s from QF over... maybe the 332s.

Would think the upcoming Qantas announcement on fleet plans will contain the answers. hA, Who knows, maybe high-density 77Ws for JetStar? One would think the 787s would be ideal but too far away time wise.

Wonder if Jet Blue, Virgin Blue and Southwest would follow suit and get some widebodies (OK, just wishful thinking... back to reality).
 
777ER
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:00 pm

Jetstar will be flying from CHC to Australia from 1st December. Hope JQ replace QF (jetconnect) out of WLG.
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6thfreedom
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:19 pm

Quoting Antares (Reply 15):
Jetstar heavy is supposed to do to Qantas international what Jetstar (light?) did to domestic.

Antares, the mere fact that you are discussing this topic and using the term 'jetstar heavy' confirms to me that you are in the know..

 Wink

AO was set up with some very strict operating conditions that impede on qantas' low cost, leisure destination growth... eg. max 8 hr sectors, no more than 4 time zones to be crossed etc.

i would not be surprised if over time, AO is absorbed into jetstar heavy. JQ heavy could operate to a variety of markets which at the moment QF struggles.. India, secondary points in China, Canada, as well as BKK from MEL or KUL...

from a simple cost perspective, JQ heavy makes perfect sense...

i would expec an announcement before the end of this year.
 
antares
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:26 am

There are stories relevant to this thread in the business sections of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Australian today.

Each overlapps a little and includes different information so I recommend reading both. They appear to be well sourced and correctly do not reach definition on matters the board has not yet signed off, and may not, until December or later.

Antares
 
wunala
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:27 am

From Todays Paper. Interesting about BKK being low yeild.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/...star/2005/10/17/1129401197304.html

Qantas's plans to hive off a large chunk of its international operations to its low-cost Jetstar franchise are well advanced, with the airline looking to launch Jetstar flights from Australia to South-East Asia, China and possibly Japan in the second half of next year.

The national carrier is looking to lease longer-range aircraft for the budget airline, which initially will have a mandate to fly to destinations within a 10-hour flying range of Australia. It will form a major plank of Qantas's five-year plan to slash $3 billion from its cost base.

The Qantas board is expected to sign off plans for Jetstar International in early December. Jetstar International is expected to be run separately from Jetstar, which itself will launch international flights to New Zealand on December 1.

Like the domestic Jetstar, which was launched in May last year, it is expected the new carrier will take over less profitable international routes, such as Bali, Manila, Bangkok, Fukuoka in Japan and even Honolulu.

The carrier is also expected to open up more routes into Asia from smaller capital cities, such as Adelaide and Perth. Given the new Jetstar's longer range, it is speculated it will have two classes - economy and premium economy (or business).

Advertisement
AdvertisementAside from attacking Qantas's cost base, the new Jetstar is also aiming to stem the growing incursion of carriers such as Emirates and Singapore Airlines on air traffic into Australia. Qantas's share of the international market into Australia fell from 30.4 to 28.3 per cent in the year to June.

The Qantas board is also expected to approve what could be the airline's largest fleet order. Qantas is looking at purchasing - and leasing - up to 100 new medium- and long-range aircraft. It is speculated a sizeable chunk of the order will be destined for Jetstar. Within Qantas ranks there is talk of the new airline even having a larger fleet than the domestic Jetstar, which will have a fleet of 23 jets by May next year.

The Qantas fleet order could include so-called "hub busting" ultra-long range aircraft such as the Airbus 340-500 and Boeing 777-200ER, and medium-range planes such as the B787 and A350.

Given the aircraft could take several years to deliver, Qantas in the meantime is looking to lease aircraft for Jetstar's initial incursion into Asia. It is expected Jetstar could wait until it takes delivery of its fleet of A350s or 787s before launching flights to Europe and the US.

It is unclear what the expansion of Jetstar means for the future of Qantas's other Asia-focused budget operation, Australian Airlines.

Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon declined to comment yesterday on Jetstar's international expansion plans or if it could result in Qantas surrendering some routes. Nor would he comment on the possible ramifications on Qantas's heavily unionised 38,000-strong workforce.

At the full-year profit results in August, Mr Dixon said: "Jetstar is going to be such an important part of Qantas … it will be just as important as the main line."

Qantas's plans to boost the profile of Jetstar internationally could meet stiff resistance from pilots. A list of so-called "reform candidates" recently won control of the Australian and International Pilots Association. Their campaign for control of the union was spearheaded by opposition to Jetstar launching international flights.
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:57 am

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 22):
from a simple cost perspective, JQ heavy makes perfect sense...

But not from a marketing one. Australian Airlines is a great brand name and a huge asset when promoting leisure flights in inbound markets ...
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6thfreedom
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:29 am

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 25):
Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 22):
from a simple cost perspective, JQ heavy makes perfect sense...

But not from a marketing one. Australian Airlines is a great brand name and a huge asset when promoting leisure flights in inbound markets ...

Well, considering that the India, Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia, Philippines, Taiwan, and Australian markets have been exposed to the Jetstar brand via JQ or 3K, i beg to differ.

And what's to say that AO won't be incorporated into the JQ heavy brand?
 
Sydscott
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:22 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 26):
And what's to say that AO won't be incorporated into the JQ heavy brand?

I've long thought that at the end of all this restructuring the only cities which will see Qantas mainline service will be London, Frankfurt, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Singapore, Los Angeles and Johannesburg. Just like Cityflyer these are core cities for Qantas and virtually all the rest, including the development routes into India, China and Canada, can be flown by either a leisure carrier exclusively or a combination of the two.

What I haven't seen yet, or heard anyone ask, is what are the ramifications for the Qantas Frequent Flyer Scheme?? You can't earn points on AO services whilst on Jetstar domestic you can only earn points on Jetflex fares which are significantly more expensive than other economy fares. I presume JQ Heavy will allow you to earn FF points but doesn't this then raise the cost base of operating it??

Also what about access to the Qantas Club Internationally?? When flying Jetstar domestically you can access QF's Qantas Clubs but you can't access partner, associated or Oneworld lounges. The same applies to AO customers. But if you give Jetstar Heavy customers access to all these lounges presumably that will raise the cost base of the airline because they will have to pay for it. If you don't give them access then you could force full fare customers to your competitors because they will have access to theirs.
 
jasond
Topic Author
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:04 pm

Quoting Wunala (Reply 24):
Interesting about BKK being low yeild.

Not so surprising really, what with recent terrorism events and bird flu a certain level of travel 'reluctance' is starting to creep into Asian destinations generally. The article actually includes BKK with a number of other destinations that you would normally expect to be quite busy but not so recently which makes them ripe for the low cost market.
 
dj738
Posts: 265
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:53 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 21):
Hope JQ replace QF (jetconnect) out of WLG

The QF services out of WLG are full service, and when fares are on sale, can be just as cheap as what JQ would be offering, so I am curious as to why we hope for JQ to enter this route?

DJ already offer consistently cheap airfares, and ultra-modern aircraft on WLG routes, if either of these are reasons you may want to cite.
 
777ER
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RE: Jetstar To Go International?

Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:55 pm

Quoting DJ738 (Reply 29):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 21):
Hope JQ replace QF (jetconnect) out of WLG

The QF services out of WLG are full service, and when fares are on sale, can be just as cheap as what JQ would be offering, so I am curious as to why we hope for JQ to enter this route?

DJ already offer consistently cheap airfares, and ultra-modern aircraft on WLG routes, if either of these are reasons you may want to cite.

Just like DJ, JQ having modern aircraft is one of the reasons. I took pictures off 2 QF (jetconnect) B733 cabins at CHC Air NZs Mx base early last year. Those two cabins were very outdated. Those two B733s are mostly International as I've seem them parked heaps at the WLG international gates. I don't think passengers would get a good impression with cabins and seats that are outdated and torn etc. It would be nice to get JQ services thou as QF operate NZ domestic
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