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Brasuca
Posts: 684
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:26 pm

Lan_Fanatic,
Dear Mr. Mad, why do you happen to be so primitive? Problems at home? Don't fool yourself!

Quoting Lan_Fanatic (Reply 45):
As i said in my first post, if Argentina had a population of 190 million inhabitants, and all that people being sent by EZE or AEP,as it happens with Brazil, they would surely rank higher tan SAO in that list.

So do you think population is inflexibly related to wealth? Don't fool yourself like that!

Quoting Lan_Fanatic (Reply 45):
all brazilian-international traffic is sent out by GRU, some flights out of GIG and two or three flights out of SSA.

GIG alone has twice more flights than SCL does. There are international scheduled flights from: SSA, REC, NAT, FOR, BEL, MCP, BVB, MAO, CGR, GRU, BSB, GIG, FLN, POA, CWB. You'd better shut up when you don't know something, instead of fooling yourself, señor!

Quoting Lan_Fanatic (Reply 45):
Argentinians are richer than brazilians.

I wouldn't say that if I were you. Just been to Argentina and found them with a way lower purchasing power than us. Just arrived with some dollars and felt rich.

Just a reminder: don't fool yourself and honor your citizenship: chileans are so kind!
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
Lan_Fanatic
Posts: 1056
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:30 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 46):
And stop being so agresive...whats your problem? I think is too late in Chile, so have a sleep!

Actually, it's time to wake up.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 46):
The point is that Argentina has NOT a population of 190 million...so please STOP DREAMING...what's next? That Chile could become as a big country as Brazil?

Then there is ABSOLUTELY NO POINT in comparing SAO and BUE's traffic as PPSMA tried to do.
And about Chile becoming as a big country as Brazil, I say NO THANKS!

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 46):
Total GDP Brazil is the richest country, by far, in South America...

The PPP doesn't say that. And the HDI doesn't rank Brazil as Latin America's highest

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 46):
Hey...Lan Chile...everybody knows that you envy Brazil...and you would like to see LanBrazil and that Santiago could become Sao Paulo...but this is a dream, okay?

Ok, The one that should get some sleep is YOU. You should know I have never envied Brazil, and I am positively sure I don't want Santiago to become a Sao Paulo (although I'd like to see a LanBrasil). The problem i've got is about something called delirium tremens that some brazilians in this forum have.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:06 pm

Quoting Lan_Fanatic (Reply 51):
although I'd like to see a LanBrasil

We all know that.....so STOP DREAMING! We know you envy Brazil...

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 50):
Lan_Fanatic,
Dear Mr. Mad, why do you happen to be so primitive? Problems at home? Don't fool yourself!

LanFanatic is known here for creating trouble and having problems with all other South American countries bigger are more important than Chile - from Argentina to Peru to Brazil...he has what we call "inferiority complex"...so we have to be patient with him...

Rgs,
 
hardiwv
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:08 pm

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 50):
GIG alone has twice more flights than SCL does. There are international scheduled flights from: SSA, REC, NAT, FOR, BEL, MCP, BVB, MAO, CGR, GRU, BSB, GIG, FLN, POA, CWB. You'd better shut up when you don't know something, instead of fooling yourself, señor!

Correct.

Rgs,
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:44 am

Quoting Lan_Fanatic (Reply 51):
Santiago to become a Sao Paulo (although I'd like to see a LanBrasil). The problem i've got is about something called delirium tremens that some brazilians in this forum have.

Sorry Lan_Fanatic, what kind of "deliriums" you're talking about.... It's a kind of delirium to inform all others what really happen in Brazil...

Only for your info: Lan will resume a weekly non stop between GIG and SCL, on jan and feb-06. Will be run on saturdays with A319.

And... TAM will drop business class on GRU-SCL (as well as GRU-EZE) flight effective november 1st.

If you visit Brazil one day probably i will make the best to give you a correct picture of our country. You're from a very kindly country with very kindly people, but need to recognize that Brazil is a strong country, not the biggest, but important. And economy activity means civil aviation activity. This is not a game of " i win, you lost " , need to be everybody's victory.

Regards,
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
abrelosojos
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:31 am

Lanfanatic:

Where have you been over the past 15 years? Argentina has been in constant decline - poverty rates in Argentina are over 50% - and the country is crippled with debt which they have the audacity not to pay. The whole world system continues to suffer because of Argentinian arrogance. Contrast to this, Brazil continues to grow at increasing rates, have a vibrant diversified economy, and a democracy that is finally being consolidated and being devolved from the upper echelons of society. Sure Brazil has its problems - huge inequality, etc. ... but which country does not?

I suggest you go to Brazil and see a lot of this yourself. You'll find a country tackling its problems heads on and that is trying to ensure wealth being devolved from the white elite to everyone ... you know its harder for Brazil because its so diverse. Its easier in places like Chile where all indeginous people were pretty much wiped out and democracy isn't as valued ... I mean, isn't a person like Pinochet who committed crimes against humanity still out and the populace cant do anything about it?

Abrazo,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
bsbisland
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:23 am

Quoting Lan_Fanatic (Reply 51):

For a long time I´ve noticed your comments, and if it´s not inferiority complex, just ignore the "nonsense" posts made by some Brazilians, like I used to do with your comments. It´s just really ridiculous the way you behave here. Envy? Inferiority complex? Whatever. Keep your thoughts to yourself, and don´t make everyone think Chilean people are like you.
Best Regards.
 
Brasuca
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:06 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 52):
LanFanatic is known here for creating trouble and having problems with all other South American countries bigger are more important than Chile - from Argentina to Peru to Brazil...he has what we call "inferiority complex"...so we have to be patient with him...

haha  rotfl 
I like your sense of humour (and other things too).  bigthumbsup 

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 54):
If you visit Brazil one day probably i will make the best to give you a correct picture of our country. You're from a very kindly country with very kindly people, but need to recognize that Brazil is a strong country, not the biggest, but important. And economy activity means civil aviation activity. This is not a game of " i win, you lost " , need to be everybody's victory.

This time, I really must break the A.net rule which says "not post only for posting", because I have to say that I completely agree with you!

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 55):

Abrelosojos, my grand welcome to my respected users' list!
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
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TR763
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:49 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 54):

Lipe, I sometimes thank God we have someone sane in this forum like you! I can´t believe what I just read in this thread!

Back to the topic, I know this has already been discussed a lot, but is there already a date for GRU´s T3 construction to start?
When it´s ready, what will be the increase in the airport´s capacity?
And are the airlines already fighting to see who will get T3? - As we know JJ is in T1 and RG in T2...

Rgs
TR763

Ps: let me do a marketing for those who like trip reports, I just posted one about my last trip to the US with many pics: GRU-MIA-GRU + Orlando - AA 777 (lots Of Pics) (by TR763 Oct 23 2005 in Trip Reports)
Thank you!  Wink
Image
Picture by Justin Cederholm at MCO.
 
Brasuca
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:04 am

Quoting TR763 (Reply 58):
is there already a date for GRU´s T3 construction to start?

I don't think so.
Infraero is pushing government to create as soon as possible the rail link between CPQ, GRU and CGH, as they aim to transfer all GRU's international traffic to Campinas and GRU will operate domestic only.
There is lot of expansion terrain around Campinas, while almost nowhere in GRU.
In my opinion, Infraero is pooling to transfer flights not only from GRU, but São Paulo itself, as we can see them postponing T3's building, whereas they are improving almost all other airports in Brazil, thus pushing airlines to fly secondary cities. Let's not forget GIG as well.
Other users will give you deeper insights.

Cheers

Quoting TR763 (Reply 58):
Ps: let me do a marketing for those who like trip reports, I just posted one about my last trip to the US with many pics

Ops! I L-O-V-E Trip Reports! Thank you so much!  hyper  hyper 
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
PPSMA
Topic Author
Posts: 157
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:31 am

Estimado Lan_Fanatic,

Your comments, besides being TOTALLY uncalled for, are also of a high level of stupidity.

When I made that initial comment I did not mean any offense to the Argentinean and I made it clear. However, you in your insane, mundane, crazy, lunatic, stupid and sic mind should know better than just stir things up the way you did!

Like all the other Brazilians have pointed out here, Chileans are well known for their extremely good manners, cheerfulness, politeness but you...You are, simply put, a disgrace to your fellow countrymen!  banghead 

Allow ME to show you some FACTS about our two countries (Argentina and Brasil) which will surely shut you up once and for all:

Quote:
wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina)
Argentina:
-Area
• Total: 2,791,810 or 3,761,274 km² (8th)
• Water (%):1.1%
Population
• 2005 est.:38,592,150 (32th)
• 2001 census: 36,260,130
• Density :13/km² (165th)
GDP (PPP)
• Total: U$S 180,000,000,000 (23rd)
• Per capita 2005 estimate: U$S 4,700 (2005) (52nd)

Brasil:
Area
• Total: 8,511,965 km²
• % water:0.65%
Ranked 5th
Population: Ranked 5th
• Total (2004): 186,112,794
• Density 22/km²
GDP (2004):Ranked 10th
• Total: $1.553 trillion (PPP
• GDP/head: $8,344 (PPP)

Now, take a walk !

Domenico
Aviation is my thing!
 
Marambio
Posts: 1145
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:45 am

Good evening gentlemen,

I cannot believe my eyes. It is astonishing to see how a thread about Sao Paulo's airport turned out into a nationalistic fight, including Argentina which, I believe, has got absolutely nothing to do with this.

Gents, we are all grown-up and civilized people, otherwise we would not be posting at a paid, English-speaking forum. Please let me ask you to behave like grown-ups, not like a 12-year-old.

I cannot believe my eyes.

Quoting PPSMA (Thread starter):
A message to los hermanos Argentinos: hay que seguir luchando para llegar alli!

What the hell does that have to do with the rest of your post? Argentina is 36 million people, while Brazil is 160 million. The population of São Paulo is about the same than 2/3 of the total population of Argentina. It is obvious that you guys are getting more flights, because you are bigger! Besides, Argentina is recovering from a very strong economic crisis. We are way better than we were 3 years ago, but there's still a long way to go.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 55):
Where have you been over the past 15 years? Argentina has been in constant decline - poverty rates in Argentina are over 50% - and the country is crippled with debt which they have the audacity not to pay. The whole world system continues to suffer because of Argentinian arrogance.

Abrelosojos, what are you talking about? We are paying our debt. We signed an agreement with the IMF.. Please don't tell me that the world is suffering because of "Argentinian arrogance".

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 46):

The point is that Argentina has NOT a population of 190 million...so please STOP DREAMING...what's next? That Chile could become as a big country as Brazil?

Hardi, if you weren't on my RU list I'd have added you. Thanks for saying this.

I have suggested this thread's deletion.

[Edited 2005-10-24 01:45:33]
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
PPSMA
Topic Author
Posts: 157
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:47 am

Quote:

TR763 (Reply 58):

Ps: let me do a marketing for those who like trip reports, I just posted one about my last trip to the US with many pics: GRU-MIA-GRU + Orlando - AA 777 (lots Of Pics) (by TR763 Oct 23 2005 in Trip Reports)
Thank you!

I read your report and it was great, although some of the photos were a bee blurred!

Now, straight to the point: I have mentioned here before that I can gladly offer all A.net members great (and unbeatable) fares on AA , DL and CO on any of their routes. Just to give you an idea, a round trip to MIA or MCO on AA starts at US$ 500 for travel up to Dec10th. Another example is a Orlando 6-night package for approx US$ 680 per person sharing a triple room flying AA or DL.

SO whenever you or any other A. net member think about flying to the US, drop me a line and I´ll be more than happy to try and get you the lowest fares available.

By the way, why aren´t you coming to the Boston Air Show? LipeGIG was the only one so far (besides me) to confirm his presence!

There´s still time: would you like to come?

Abraços

Domenico
Aviation is my thing!
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:07 am

Quoting TR763 (Reply 58):
Back to the topic, I know this has already been discussed a lot, but is there already a date for GRU´s T3 construction to start?
When it´s ready, what will be the increase in the airport´s capacity?
And are the airlines already fighting to see who will get T3? - As we know JJ is in T1 and RG in T2...

Infraero probably will announce GRU T3 on 2006. The main objective will be transfer from CGH to GRU about 8 million pax. T3 will be probably 100% domestic (could be the end of domestic on remote positions at GRU).
T3 TR767, as per the project, will add 12 million pax per year to the airport (only possible with the 3rd runway, which will allow only 737 and A320 operations as its not so long as the 9/27 nowadays in use)

T3 as i said, will be all domestic (probably), both TAM and Varig will run operations there with more confortable.

This concept is under approval on Infraero (because it allow more space on T1 and T2 for international operations), also an all domestic terminal would give more than 12 million in final capacity.

IF Infraero really annouce T3 on 2006, it will be ready by 2008/2009 when SAO will need another terminal (and at this time is expected that the high speed train SAO-CPQ will be more real). Let´s see....


Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4322
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:25 am

Quoting Marambio (Reply 61):
Abrelosojos, what are you talking about? We are paying our debt. We signed an agreement with the IMF.. Please don't tell me that the world is suffering because of "Argentinian arrogance".

= Argentina has defaulted and restructured its debt a zillion times - everytime it holds IMF/Bank hostage, it undermines the credibility of the international system and makes it worse for other developing countries. By reducing debt payments each round, it ensures creditors make terms harder for countries that should get credit. For more info on this, PM and we can talk offline. I am no fan of the IMF, but its about time Argentina realizes they are NOT any rich country circa 1913, admit they are impoverished, and stop living in arrogance and excess. These marches in Argentina against the IMF ... they are ridiculous. Argentina got itself into this position ... not by hard work ... but by DEBT. Its time to stop living beyond means. Its a generic Latin American problem, but Argentina is the worst culprit.


Abrazos,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
User avatar
TR763
Posts: 781
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:32 am

PPSMA,
I really aprecciate your kindness, and with no doubt, whenever I feel I´m going to the US, I´ll contact you!

I would really love to go to the Boston Air Show, but if you look in my profile, you´ll see my age, and realize that with my "estagiário" salary, I can´t make an int´l travel without the help of my parents. Besides this, I have to attend classes in university and can´t miss any day of work!
Anyway, thanks a lot for the invitation, I´ll put you in my RU list for that!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 63):
T3 as i said, will be all domestic (probably), both TAM and Varig will run operations there with more confortable.

This concept is under approval on Infraero (because it allow more space on T1 and T2 for international operations), also an all domestic terminal would give more than 12 million in final capacity.

I think it´s a nice solution. An all-domestic terminal would also make the transfer of flights from CGH easier. And as GRU is not an incredibly huge aiport, that wouldn´t be a problem for those who need to connect, I believe.

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 59):
transfer all GRU's international traffic to Campinas and GRU will operate domestic only

Brasuca are you sure of that? I think you might have misunderstood some info.
 Wink

Rgs!
TR763
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Picture by Justin Cederholm at MCO.
 
Brasuca
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:46 am

Quoting TR763 (Reply 65):
Brasuca are you sure of that? I think you might have misunderstood some info.

Hi! Yes, I am sure! This is a long-term project.

These are Infraero words:
"A Infraero pretende que o Aeroporto de Viracopos se torne, dentro de alguns anos, o principal aeroporto do Brasil" (Infraero projects CPQ to be the most important airport in Brazil in the future)

So, logically, int'l traffic won't remain in GRU:

http://www.infraero.gov.br/impr_noti_prev.php?ni=2471&orig=home

What do you think?  Wink


LipeGIG,

Can you explain to us Infraero's project about CPQ (Int'l), GRU (domestic) and CGH (air shuttle only)?
You're better entitled to this than me.  Smile
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
PPSMA
Topic Author
Posts: 157
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:23 am

Quote:

Marambio (Reply 61)
Quoting PPSMA (Thread starter):
A message to los hermanos Argentinos: hay que seguir luchando para llegar alli!

What the hell does that have to do with the rest of your post? Argentina is 36 million people, while Brazil is 160 million. The population of São Paulo is about the same than 2/3 of the total population of Argentina. It is obvious that you guys are getting more flights, because you are bigger! Besides, Argentina is recovering from a very strong economic crisis. We are way better than we were 3 years ago, but there's still a long way to go.

Dear Marambio,

I must admit my original comment lead to misinterpretation: I was simply using Argentina as a comparison to my posting!

I work for an Argentinian company and have many Argentineans friends, so my intention was not to cause such an emotional reaction as it did!

So let´s just focus on the thread and move on!

Saludos

Domenico
Aviation is my thing!
 
User avatar
TR763
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:05 am

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 66):
What do you think?

Sincerely, if they try to put ALL int´l flights to CPQ, some airlines would drop São Paulo service and increase GIG, providing connections thru there... I could be wrong...
I myself would prefer to go to GRU, get a shuttle flight to GIG and go abroad, than going to GRU, then a train to CPQ to get the int´l flights there.

Quote:
a viagem pelo futuro trem expresso São Paulo-Campinas teria duração estimada de 57 minutos.

The leg to CPQ will be longer than a flight to Rio!

But that´s just one point of view...

Rgs!!
TR763
Image
Picture by Justin Cederholm at MCO.
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8524
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:18 am

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 66):
These are Infraero words:
"A Infraero pretende que o Aeroporto de Viracopos se torne, dentro de alguns anos, o principal aeroporto do Brasil" (Infraero projects CPQ to be the most important airport in Brazil in the future)

So, logically, int'l traffic won't remain in GRU:

http://www.infraero.gov.br/impr_noti_prev.php?ni=2471&orig=home

What do you think? Wink

I think it's BS. (not mad at you, just Infraero  Wink )

CPQ is an hour and half away from SP (considering my house near CGH, and that's in a good day). It's gonna be hell to drive there. I'd rather take a flight to GIG from CGH, and connect elsewhere from there instead of going all the way to CPQ.

Infraero should kick the Airforce out of GRU and open a new terminal on that side of the runway (maybe send all the remote parking, cargo + maintenance over there).

HOWEVER, they can always keep on building towards the left of T2, where that old VP-mx complex skeleton lies nowadays.

Then rebuild rwy 09R/27L further away from 09L/27R (where the military is now) so that the two current rwys can take simultaneous ops.

Let the military take CPQ instead.

That, plus expanding terminal capacity as needed, should take care of it for a good 20 years.

Sry for the rant..

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PPVRA
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:30 am

Quoting TR763 (Reply 68):

TR, you're 100% right!

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PDPsol
Posts: 1226
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:23 pm

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 55):
Where have you been over the past 15 years? Argentina has been in constant decline - poverty rates in Argentina are over 50% - and the country is crippled with debt which they have the audacity not to pay. The whole world system continues to suffer because of Argentinian arrogance. Contrast to this, Brazil continues to grow at increasing rates, have a vibrant diversified economy, and a democracy that is finally being consolidated and being devolved from the upper echelons of society. Sure Brazil has its problems - huge inequality, etc. ... but which country does not?

I suggest you go to Brazil and see a lot of this yourself. You'll find a country tackling its problems heads on and that is trying to ensure wealth being devolved from the white elite to everyone ... you know its harder for Brazil because its so diverse. Its easier in places like Chile where all indeginous people were pretty much wiped out and democracy isn't as valued ... I mean, isn't a person like Pinochet who committed crimes against humanity still out and the populace cant do anything about it?



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 64):
Argentina got itself into this position ... not by hard work ... but by DEBT. Its time to stop living beyond means. Its a generic Latin American problem, but Argentina is the worst culprit.

What do any of these completely misguided comments have to do with either i) civil aviation or, ii) Guarulhos International Airport in Sao Paulo?

These rambling, incoherent, ridiculous comments about Argentina and Chile are not only incorrect, but entirely unrelated to the discussion topic.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4322
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 1:08 pm

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 71):
What do any of these completely misguided comments have to do with either i) civil aviation or, ii) Guarulhos International Airport in Sao Paulo?

These rambling, incoherent, ridiculous comments about Argentina and Chile are not only incorrect, but entirely unrelated to the discussion topic.

= I will give you that they are off the topic. However, please do your background research on my rambling, incoherent, and ridiculus comments before posting some of your own. If you were so inclined to an intellectual debate, I would strongly advice on maintaining the moral superiority that you seem to beg and message me in private. As you said yourself, topics of debt exuberance and mismanagement is not done on this forum. This is my last commentary on this. I will respond to you privately.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:44 pm

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 71):
These rambling, incoherent, ridiculous comments about Argentina and Chile are not only incorrect, but entirely unrelated to the discussion topic.

You should send this to one person: LanFanatic. Anyway, as his title suggests, he is a "fanatic" and must not be taken seirous. So let us just neglect all of his posts...

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 63):
Infraero probably will announce GRU T3 on 2006. The main objective will be transfer from CGH to GRU about 8 million pax. T3 will be probably 100% domestic (could be the end of domestic on remote positions at GRU).



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 63):
IF Infraero really annouce T3 on 2006, it will be ready by 2008/2009 when SAO will need another terminal (and at this time is expected that the high speed train SAO-CPQ will be more real).



Quoting Brasuca (Reply 66):
(Infraero projects CPQ to be the most important airport in Brazil in the future)

So, logically, int'l traffic won't remain in GRU:

Indeed, I think INFRAERO's vision for the future is as follows:

- GRU (including T3 announced in 2006) only for domestic flights;
- CGH (renovation finished by 2007) only for the CGH-SDU shuttle service, which is the world's 5th busiest air route, so enough to keep the aiport full;
- CPQ/VCP (renovation finished 2005) focused on international flights, will become Brazil's major international gateway.

All of the above implies a speed train link, interconnected to Sao Paulo's underground, linking GRU-CGH-CPQ/VCP.

Rgs,
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2514
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:47 pm

Okay, time to stop the crap...

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 55):
Where have you been over the past 15 years? Argentina has been in constant decline - poverty rates in Argentina are over 50% - and the country is crippled with debt which they have the audacity not to pay. The whole world system continues to suffer because of Argentinian arrogance.

Abrelosojos, have you ever taken a look at what you post? Let me remind you that Argentina suffered the worse economic turndown in its history. Did you know also, that these 'so called poverty levels' are only statistics? They are mainly caused because of the currency devaluation? The currency went from 1 peso per USD, to 4 pesos per USD in 2 months time. Prices soared, but wages were the same. Duh, cost of living index, increases HUGELY - bigger duh, "poverty" dramatically rises.
Since you seem to THINK you know about my country, let's see. Name the number of 'countless' times Argentina has reestructured its debt, please. I'd love to hear that. Let me remind you that when the Military Junta claimed power and deposed President Martínez de Perón, the debt of the country was 7 billion USD. When they left, we had 46 billion. When Alfonsín left, it was some what around 55 billion. Menem left it floating around 105 billion, and De la Rua took it up to 154 billion USD. With 1 out of every 5 dollars of the governments budget, it's hard to keep up. And so, I go on - the recipes of organisms like the IMF to get more pay, took both Argentina and Brazil to disaster. Raising taxes, and being more restrictive on spending.
Argentina grew during the 90s because of the financial system it had. Once Cavallo ruined it by smashing the BCRA [Banco Central de la República Argentina] reserves, you wouldn't be seeing more than 30% poverty, which is still a lot.
Brazil is a great country - I love it. I have nothing to object, I only have to comment great things of it. They suffered the same as we did. Both countries suffered when something happens to one another -eg. 1998 devaluation-. My post comes to cross some of your incorrect information and stupid accusations you make.

Have you taken a look at the growth of the last 3 years in Argentina? Constant.

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 71):
What do any of these completely misguided comments have to do with either i) civil aviation or, ii) Guarulhos International Airport in Sao Paulo?

These rambling, incoherent, ridiculous comments about Argentina and Chile are not only incorrect, but entirely unrelated to the discussion topic.

Pdpsol,
I know we don't agree much - but thank you for this!

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 72):
I would strongly advice on maintaining the moral superiority that you seem to beg and message me in private

If you are someone to preach on morality, then you should know that what's discussed in private is to remain in private.

Getting back to the article,

Quoting PPSMA (Thread starter):
A message to los hermanos Argentinos: hay que seguir luchando para llegar alli!

Domenico,
I still have NO clue what were you trying to compare.   Care to elaborate?  

EDIT: Grammar

Cheers!  
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie

[Edited 2005-10-24 10:50:18]
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
PPSMA
Topic Author
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:11 am

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:41 pm

Gaston

Dejame aclarear que yo quis hacer una broma (a joke) pues que no encontré ningun otro aeropuerto de Sud América en la encuesta.

Pasa que eso sr FANáTICO (Lan-Fanatic no se que) hizo unos comentarios totalmente negativos y distorted!

Por eso dejemos eso punto infeliz y enfoquemonos en el listado.

Un abrazo,

Domenico
Aviation is my thing!
 
Brasuca
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:09 am

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:03 pm

Quoting TR763 (Reply 68):
Sincerely, if they try to put ALL int´l flights to CPQ, some airlines would drop São Paulo service and increase GIG, providing connections thru there... I could be wrong...

Then, "those" airlines would serve exactly only the real demand of São Paulo.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 69):
CPQ is an hour and half away from SP (considering my house near CGH, and that's in a good day). It's gonna be hell to drive there. I'd rather take a flight to GIG from CGH, and connect elsewhere from there instead of going all the way to CPQ.

Now do you know what we from other points in Brazil feel, when flying long detours to São Paulo Hub? hehe  hissyfit 
Bear in mind that driving one hour to your airport is not that bad. Just the same (or more, depending on traffic) as to EZE airport, or HKG or most of int'l airports in some of the busiest cities in the world.

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 71):
What do any of these completely misguided comments have to do with either i) civil aviation or, ii) Guarulhos International Airport in Sao Paulo?

Why don't you read yourself all the thread and get the answer yourself, instead of being lazy?

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 71):
These rambling, incoherent, ridiculous comments about Argentina and Chile are not only incorrect, but entirely unrelated to the discussion topic.

Again, read this thread since its beginning.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 73):
- GRU (including T3 announced in 2006) only for domestic flights;
- CGH (renovation finished by 2007) only for the CGH-SDU shuttle service, which is the world's 5th busiest air route, so enough to keep the aiport full;
- CPQ/VCP (renovation finished 2005) focused on international flights, will become Brazil's major international gateway.

Thanks for description. However, it's difficult thinking of CGH with 12 fingers handling flights ONLY to SDU, which will be able to handle way less than CGH will.  boggled 
Maybe GIG is included?
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:09 pm

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 76):
Why don't you read yourself all the thread and get the answer yourself, instead of being lazy?

Nadson, Pdpsol is a good friend so lets spare him from this one  Wink
(check the thread we were talking last week).

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 76):
However, it's difficult thinking of CGH with 12 fingers handling flights ONLY to SDU

I dont think so. 12 fingers for the 5th busiest route in the world is just enough to handle traffic properly, with a certain degree of comfort. SDU will also get about 7 fingers (?) by 2007 and is only dealing with CGH traffic. I think this is just adequate for the two airports linking Brazil's two most important cities.

Rgs,
 
767-300ER
Posts: 247
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:19 pm

Correction to a post made earilier. The state of Sao Paulo' s population is not 2/3 that of Argentina's. The population of the state of Sao Paulo is now at 40 million and 11% of Latin America resides in the state. The only nation in South America who has a larger population than the state of Sao Paulo is Colombia
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8524
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:38 pm

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 76):
Now do you know what we from other points in Brazil feel, when flying long detours to S�o Paulo Hub? hehe hissyfit
Bear in mind that driving one hour to your airport is not that bad. Just the same (or more, depending on traffic) as to EZE airport, or HKG or most of int'l airports in some of the busiest cities in the world.

I can imagine, but the hour to an hour and a half is highway driving. It's a trip there, including tolls on the way (last time I went there, ~R$8.50 for the stupid toll!!). I usually go to Campinas at least once, sometimes twice a year (family there), and we always leave early in the morning and come back late in the evening.

With a few modifications and a RWY3/T3 & T4, GRU can handle the traffic for a while.

You can't go out building new airports everytime you need more space. GRU has a master plan, let's build it, and then improve upon it.

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:36 am

Okay, let´s see some details

- Sao Paulo Airport System need urgent improvement
- GRU T3 takes three years to get ready
- The Railway need to be annouced, to annouce they are ready for bids, it´s too much expansive and will take AT LEAST 5 (five) years to get ready (9 in my opinion knowing well about Brazil).
- CGH is overcapacity, CPQ is only a little terminal nowadays.
- I can't imagine Infraero start CPQ 2010-plan without GRU T3 ready

So:

The best option is to start GRU T3 ASAP, using it to get a lot of flights from CGH (which will keeps only Sao Paulo state flights of shuttle services to SDU, CWB and CNF). All the others represents about 7 to 8 million pax which added for the remote domestic operated nowadays at GRU will give the 12 to 14 million pax capacity for the new terminal.

After GRU T3 ready, Infraero will start probably in 2009 or 2010 the First Terminal for CPQ. It will be ready at time the railway could be reday too, by 2014, when i believe international flights could be in part realocated from GRU to CPQ (IMO a strong mistake, you cannot drive Pax to airports!). Probably many pax will preffer do a flight like CGH-GIG to connect there.

But it´s another story, the matter here is GRU.

The big problem at GRU is it's limitation. It cannot be bigger than 29 million pax per year, there are restrictions of area, routes and even geographic.

IMO, it was better to invest in GIG for connections, allowing GRU to take care only of Sao Paulo state traffic. It´s cheap, smart and fast !

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4322
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:31 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 74):
Okay, time to stop the crap...

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 55):
Where have you been over the past 15 years? Argentina has been in constant decline - poverty rates in Argentina are over 50% - and the country is crippled with debt which they have the audacity not to pay. The whole world system continues to suffer because of Argentinian arrogance.

Abrelosojos, have you ever taken a look at what you post? Let me remind you that Argentina suffered the worse economic turndown in its history. Did you know also, that these 'so called poverty levels' are only statistics? They are mainly caused because of the currency devaluation? The currency went from 1 peso per USD, to 4 pesos per USD in 2 months time. Prices soared, but wages were the same. Duh, cost of living index, increases HUGELY - bigger duh, "poverty" dramatically rises.
Since you seem to THINK you know about my country, let's see. Name the number of 'countless' times Argentina has reestructured its debt, please. I'd love to hear that. Let me remind you that when the Military Junta claimed power and deposed President Martínez de Perón, the debt of the country was 7 billion USD. When they left, we had 46 billion. When Alfonsín left, it was some what around 55 billion. Menem left it floating around 105 billion, and De la Rua took it up to 154 billion USD. With 1 out of every 5 dollars of the governments budget, it's hard to keep up. And so, I go on - the recipes of organisms like the IMF to get more pay, took both Argentina and Brazil to disaster. Raising taxes, and being more restrictive on spending.
Argentina grew during the 90s because of the financial system it had. Once Cavallo ruined it by smashing the BCRA [Banco Central de la República Argentina] reserves, you wouldn't be seeing more than 30% poverty, which is still a lot.
Brazil is a great country - I love it. I have nothing to object, I only have to comment great things of it. They suffered the same as we did. Both countries suffered when something happens to one another -eg. 1998 devaluation-. My post comes to cross some of your incorrect information and stupid accusations you make.

Have you taken a look at the growth of the last 3 years in Argentina? Constant.

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 71):
What do any of these completely misguided comments have to do with either i) civil aviation or, ii) Guarulhos International Airport in Sao Paulo?

These rambling, incoherent, ridiculous comments about Argentina and Chile are not only incorrect, but entirely unrelated to the discussion topic.

Pdpsol,
I know we don't agree much - but thank you for this!

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 72):
I would strongly advice on maintaining the moral superiority that you seem to beg and message me in private

If you are someone to preach on morality, then you should know that what's discussed in private is to remain in private.

Getting back to the article,

Quoting PPSMA (Thread starter):
A message to los hermanos Argentinos: hay que seguir luchando para llegar alli!

Domenico,
I still have NO clue what were you trying to compare. Care to elaborate?

EDIT: Grammar

Cheers!
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie

= Just to check your facts. Please refer to http://www.fiscalstudy.com/2005-glob...-debt-restructuring-in-history.php for a concise study on Argentina's debt restructuring and defaults. Defaulting in 152 different bonds between 1990 and 2000 is pretty big.

I am very anti-IMF - but IMF did not make Argentina take those bloody loans. Its time Argentinians take responsibility for the fact that THEY took the loans. They got themselves into the mess and IMF made it worse.

And check any statistics from ANY organization - over 50% of the population in Argentina live BELOW the NPL.

Another good paper is http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty/sebastian.edwards/Chronology.pdf

But seriously, this is it.

Cheers,
A.

PD -

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 74):
Argentina grew during the 90s because of the financial system it had.

= Just one thing - Argentina grew in the 90s because it primarily contolled inflation post 1980s - it was temporary and a bubble-based growth.
Live, and let live.
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2514
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 4:59 am

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:54 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 81):
I am very anti-IMF - but IMF did not make Argentina take those bloody loans

Really? Please. Check your sources. The famous "Blindaje" was 15bn dollars from the IMF and the rest (up to 40bn) from other credit organisms. That is only ONE example. Check your sources.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 81):
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 74):
Argentina grew during the 90s because of the financial system it had.

= Just one thing - Argentina grew in the 90s because it primarily contolled inflation post 1980s - it was temporary and a bubble-based growth.

What I meant, the financial system was the consequence of the huge reserves and the 1 peso 1 dollar peg.

Seriously, stop blaming people in a country you don't know. I'm fed up with it and I have put up with all your crap for a long time.

EDIT:

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 81):
And check any statistics from ANY organization - over 50% of the population in Argentina live BELOW the NPL

I didn't say you were wrong, but those are just tricky numbers. Inflation is the cause of most of those '50%' being below the poverty line, when they really are able to get through.

Cheers!  
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie

[Edited 2005-10-24 22:00:08]
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:52 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 80):
IMO, it was better to invest in GIG for connections, allowing GRU to take care only of Sao Paulo state traffic. It´s cheap, smart and fast !

This is an excellent interim solution: transform GIG in Brazil's major hub for connection between international and domestic flight, and GRU would focus only on O&D (Sao Paulo state) + South Brazil (i.e. CWB, FLN and POA).

Over the last months this is exactly what is happening. RG, JJ and G3 are showing strong expansion in GIG, and this is the first phase for allowing more international flights (and some have already expanded e.g. AF, IB, AA, etc).

In my opinion, GRU is getting - if it is not already - very saturated market.

Rgs
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4322
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 82):
The famous "Blindaje" was 15bn dollars from the IMF and the rest (up to 40bn) from other credit organisms. That is only ONE example.

= This is like blaming the bartender for being drunk. Who took the damn money?

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4322
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:08 am

Does anyone know what is the breakdown @ GRU between O&D and transfer?

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 85):
Does anyone know what is the breakdown @ GRU between O&D and transfer?

Very difficult question - it depends on each airine. Normally with RG the majority of pax connect onwards, but with foreign airlines O&D percentage is higher.

My guess, very rough guess, is that O&D represents about 60% of GRU traffic.

Rgs,
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2514
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 4:59 am

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:30 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 84):
= This is like blaming the bartender for being drunk. Who took the damn money?

Argentina did. I never questioned that. But, there's risk rate and interest. IMF policies made the country's economic stagnation even worse. Do you know about economic policies or are you just blabbing? Do you know what REALLY happened?

Back on topic.

Domenico,
I just was trying to understand the comparion. I have no problem with your joke, I find it funny.  Smile

As for Argentine airports are concerned - the two most important AEP and EZE, move almost the same amount of passengers per year. If Argentina had a stronger economy, and both of this airports were combined to one - there would be no doubt that AEP/EZE would be in the first 50 of that list.

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5999
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RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:43 am

Nice table, but some incorrect info for NYC area.

"4. NYC: 81M (JFK, LGA, EWR)"
94 million, not 81 million. Kind of makes u question the whole table.


From a press release dates 3/1/05 www.panynj.gov
All Passengers:

Nearly 94 Million Passengers Used John F. Kennedy International, Newark Liberty International and LaGuardia Airports in 2004, Exceeding Pre-9/11 Annual Total


Air passenger traffic set a new record of 93,861,671 travelers at John F. Kennedy International, Newark Liberty International and LaGuardia airports in 2004, an increase of more than 12 percent over the 2003 total.

Renewed air traveler confidence, extensive public and private investments, strong demand and low airfares helped the Port Authority – operator of the nation’s largest airport system – to reach the new record a year earlier than originally anticipated. The previous annual record of 92,419,554 passengers was set in 2000. Passenger traffic fell sharply following the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

In 2004, 37.5 million passengers passed through Kennedy Airport, representing an 18 percent increase over 2003 and making it the fastest-growing airport in the region and one of the fastest-growing airports in the nation. Newark Airport saw an 8.3 percent increase, with 31.9 million passengers in 2004. LaGuardia Airport had 24.4 million passengers in 2004, an increase of 8.7 percent.

The 12.2-percent increase in passengers at JFK, Newark and LaGuardia was nearly two times the average rate of other major airports in the United States. Domestic passenger levels in 2004 were 3.1-percent higher than pre-9/11 levels. International traffic, which increased 15 percent in 2004, is expected to exceed pre-9/11 levels in 2005.


Intl Passengers:

Passengers at John F. Kennedy International, Newark Liberty International and LaGuardia airports combined for nearly 25 percent of all U.S. travelers who went abroad in 2004, according to statistics released this month by the U.S. Department of Commerce.

Kennedy Airport led all airports in the nation with more than 4.7 million of the record 27.4 million U.S. citizens who traveled abroad in 2004, excluding Canada and Mexico. Kennedy’s outbound overseas travel accounted for 17.2 percent of the nation’s total.

Newark Liberty ranked fifth on the list, with more than 1.9 million outbound overseas travelers, or 7.1 percent of the country’s total. LaGuardia ranked 27th with more than 75,000 outbound overseas travelers, or 0.3 percent of the U.S. total.

PJ
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4322
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: GRU Ranked 84th Largest APT In The World!

Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 87):
Do you know about economic policies or are you just blabbing? Do you know what REALLY happened?

= Given I worked their AND quit in an earlier life, I think I am well aware. Argentina also defaulted on World Bank loans which are soft loans BELOW market rates.

-A.
Live, and let live.

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