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flyinghippo
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QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:21 am

Two of the most profitable airlines on earth currently each have RFPs for a large quantity of aircrafts:

SQ - RFP for 772LR, 787, A345, A380 and A350
QF - RFP for 772LR, 773ER, 787, A345, A346, A350, and A380
CX - I know they're always looking, but is there an official RFP out?

(I won't include 747Adv at this point since it's not launched yet)

Current speculation is QF will announce their decision on Dec. 7th, does anyone know when SQ and CX (if there is a RFP out) will announce theirs?

Rumors on A.Net indicates NZ might place a big order, and EK and QR might order as well before year ends, does anyone have an ETA on these orders? And what other airlines do you think will put out a RFP in 2005?

Looks like this is a very exciting year for civil aviation!

[Edited 2005-11-02 23:23:41]
 
NYC777
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:28 am

I think SQ is supposed to make a decision in december. EK and QR will firm up their plans at the Dubai Airshow this month. I'm not too sure about CX.
 
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keesje
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:34 am

- GECAS : 15X 787´s
- Turkish Airlines : 20X 787 or a350
- Aeroflot : Up to 22x 787 OR a350
- Air Pacific : up to 7x 787-9 OR a350-900
- ILFC: 20x 787-8 & -9 + 4 options and unspecified number of A350´s
- Royal Jordanian Airlines : unspecified number 350´s or 787´s
- Emirates up to 60 787 or A350´s
 
flyinghippo
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:42 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 2):
- GECAS : 15X 787´s
- Turkish Airlines : 20X 787 or a350
- Aeroflot : Up to 22x 787 OR a350
- Air Pacific : up to 7x 787-9 OR a350-900
- ILFC: 20x 787-8 & -9 + 4 options and unspecified number of A350´s
- Royal Jordanian Airlines : unspecified number 350´s or 787´s
- Emirates up to 60 787 or A350´s

Keesje,

Are these official RFPs?
 
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keesje
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:45 am

FlyingHippo, those are past the stage of RFP and will likely be announced before years end, Aeroflot in a few hours..

[Edited 2005-11-02 23:46:43]
 
dalecary
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:54 am

According to the Seattle Times article CX will announce before QF/SQ and is for up to 26 773ER/A346HGW.

Keesje,

where has it been stated that ILFC will announce A350 orders this year? Udvar-Hazy said this year at Le Bourget, that an A350 order was several years away and he was far more buoyant about the 787.
EK appear set to also order a large number of additional 777s(772LR/77F/773ER). I would expect the 359 to win at EK, but probably at the expense of the A346 order.
 
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keesje
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:07 am

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 5):
where has it been stated that ILFC will announce A350 orders this year?

The question was who put out an RFP in 2005. ILFC has a lot of A330´s and is in discussion with Airbus on A350 specifications. So they put out an RFP, otherwise they wouldn´t have a P to discuss.
 
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scbriml
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:08 am

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 5):
I would expect the 359 to win at EK, but probably at the expense of the A346 order.

I think EK will still take their A346s. They need more planes, and they need them now!
 
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zeke
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:11 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
I think SQ is supposed to make a decision in december.

I have heard they try and keep their fleet to 5 years or younger, guess it would not be of any surprise to see more 777's ordered to replace the older ones, and maybe 772LR to replace the 345 in 2 years.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 5):
According to the Seattle Times article CX will announce before QF/SQ and is for up to 26 773ER/A346HGW.

Not that much talk about to support that.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:01 pm

Quoting FlyingHippo (Thread starter):
(I won't include 747Adv at this point since it's not launched yet)

But in reality, the RFP for SQ does include the 747A.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:22 pm

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 9):
But in reality, the RFP for SQ does include the 747A.

How likely is it that SQ will order the PAX version of the 747A? They have 19 773ER's and 10 A380's on firm order, and currently around 27 744's in service, so are they planning on expansion?

They said originally that they would rather misuse the A380 than order the 747A. I can't see them doing that really, the A380 could be rather costly to misuse I think. And they only ordered 10, I mean the SQ285/286 SIN-AKL-SIN service could use an A380 in the NZ summer, but I don't no that it will because there are more important markets they could use it on.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:51 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 10):
How likely is it that SQ will order the PAX version of the 747A?

At this point in time, nothing would surprise me. There is a great deal of satisfaction with Airbus right now at SQ. The entire rebranding of the interior was supposed to be unveiled with the introduction of the 380 followed by the 773ER. That is all down the tubes now because of the lenghtly delay of the 380.

SQ had plans to convert 3 pax 744s to freighters, that is now scrapped because of the delay in the 380.

Speculation is SQ just might order the 747A to hedge their bets. It is almost assured they will order the 747AF at some point as their oldest 744F is just over 11 years old, which for SQ is ancient!

As for expansion and the like, yes you will see expansion. There is continued speculation of expansion to other US destinations as well as S. America. In addition, there are some of the older 772s that will leave as they are getting up in age too.

I would agree, you won't see the 380 to NZ any time soon. With 10 aircraft there really aren't too many routes they can be used on. SYD-SIN-LHR would be one, SIN-HKG-SFO would be another. The SIN-LHR legs could support a 380 as well as the later SIN-FRA. That just about uses up 10 airframes. If LHR went to all 380, which I doubt, then the choices are even less.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:04 pm

Thanks for that! Wonder if they will add 2 more weekly flights to AKL soon to make it double daily? Also if AKL will eventually see 2 daily 773ER?
 
zvezda
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:42 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 10):
How likely is it that SQ will order the PAX version of the 747A? They have 19 773ER's and 10 A380's on firm order, and currently around 27 744's in service, so are they planning on expansion?

It seems very likely SQ will order the B747Adv. The gap between the B777-300ER and the WhaleJet is too large to leave unfilled.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 10):
They said originally that they would rather misuse the A380 than order the 747A.

That always sounded like a negotiating ploy to get a lower price from Boeing.

If, as Boeing claim, the CASM of the B747Adv is lower than that of the WhaleJet, then there are very few SQ routes where the latter will make economic sense to operate. The early morning LHR flight desperately needs the WhaleJet, even if it costs a bit more per seat. The late LHR flight, the late FRA flight, SIN-HKG-SFO and SIN-NRT-LAX could use either the JumboJet or the WhaleJet. For the latter two, SQ have already announced a preference for increasing the number of nonstop seats. Also, CX and SQ are reportedly concerned about the WhaleJet's performance on SFO-HKG. There is a range hit out of SFO (reportedly a few hundred miles) because San Bruno mountain is in the departure path requiring a low altitude turn. I think that SFO will be the next nonstop destination in North America (starting in 2007) and that will relieve pressure to increase seats on SIN-HKG-SFO.

Also remember that SQ are not yet financially committed to the WhaleJet. If they cancel now, they get all their deposits back. I don't think SQ will cancel the full order, but they may take delivery of only 5 rather than 10 and then may keep them only a few years. Boeing will obviously try to make an offer to SQ that would make dumping the WhaleJet attractive. The biggest stumbling block will be the early morning LHR flight.
 
CrazyHorse
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:42 pm

When will the first 747A delivered?
Boeing is launching the new Jumbo maybe this year or at the beginning of 2006.
When an airline order this aircraft yet, there will be much time between the order and the delivered of the aircraft.
I think that SQ and also CX order a big number of 747A quite soon to replace their older 744 fleet and maybe CX replace some A346 with new 747A and for expanding.

Manuel
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:25 pm

Potential routes for A380 for SQ I think.

SIN-LHR 2 daily
SIN-SYD 1 daily
SIN-HKG-SFO 1 daily
SIN-FRA 1 daily

Thats 9 aircraft, maybe just 1 daily to LHR and daily maybe on NRT-LAX if thats the case, and the 10th aircraft on a daily SIN-MEL maybe?

747A routes.

SIN-AKL 1 daily
SIN-LHR 1-2 daily
SIN-FRA 1 daily
SIN-SYD 2 daily
SIN-MEL 1 daily

Thats about 9-10 aircraft there plus 1 or 2 other routes.

773ER routes

SIN-AKL 1 daily, replace 772ER
SIN-MEL 1 daily
SIN-ZRH 1 daily
SIN-ICN-SFO 1 daily replace 772ER
SIN-TPE-LAX 1 daily replace 772ER
SIN-MAN 1 daily replace 772ER
SIN-CHC 1 daily replace 772ER

As you can see I think they will replace the 772ER with the 773ER on some routes, thats about 12 aircraft there, there will be other routes aswell I have forgotten about.
SIN-MEL
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:29 pm

Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 14):
When will the first 747A delivered?

Around 2009 I believe.

I certainly think this aircraft has a niche market to fill! It should get its fair share of orders I believe!

As for orders, Cargolux are set to order up to 10 Freighters. Others rumoured include NZ, SQ, QF, MH, CI, CX, there are no doubt others, for both pax and Freight!
 
astuteman
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:40 pm

Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 14):
When will the first 747A delivered?



Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 16):
Around 2009 I believe.

Boeing currently quoting March 09 EIS
 
Boogyjay
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:06 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):
Also remember that SQ are not yet financially committed to the WhaleJet. If they cancel now, they get all their deposits back. I don't think SQ will cancel the full order, but they may take delivery of only 5 rather than 10 and then may keep them only a few years. Boeing will obviously try to make an offer to SQ that would make dumping the WhaleJet attractive.

Have you inside knowledge that could make you think "they may take delivery of only 5"?

I think it's a good joke. If nothing like 9/11 or SRAS happens, SQ will definetaly take the 10 A380 ordered, if not even more later on.
 
WINGS
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:18 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):
Also remember that SQ are not yet financially committed to the WhaleJet. If they cancel now, they get all their deposits back. I don't think SQ will cancel the full order, but they may take delivery of only 5 rather than 10 and then may keep them only a few years. Boeing will obviously try to make an offer to SQ that would make dumping the WhaleJet attractive. The biggest stumbling block will be the early morning LHR flight.

Hi Zvezda, I usually enjoy reading your post, although this last one has left me thinking what the hell are you on? SQ will without a doubt take all their 10x A380 on order + many options. SQ is not only introducing the A380 as a measure of capacity but also luxury.

I bet Qantas,Emirates,Thai,Malaysian Airlines,Korean Airlines, would love to see Singapore do this.

Regards,
Wings
 
antares
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:18 pm

Zvezda,

Qantas is as mean as cat shit when it comes to performance criteria.

The financial and presumably wider community has been told by Qantas that the A380 will use less runway and climb more steeply and reach a higher initial cruise altitude than our beloved 744s. Why then is there a problem out of San Francisco that is any greater than that presumably dealt with by A343s, 744s etc.

I'm not saying there isn't, but more info please.

Antares
 
CrazyHorse
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:19 pm

Quoting BoogyJay (Reply 18):

I agree with you, because SQ need the A380 for LHR and other destination like SYD, SFO and FRA.
 
zvezda
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:49 pm

Quoting Antares (Reply 20):
The financial and presumably wider community has been told by Qantas that the A380 will use less runway and climb more steeply and reach a higher initial cruise altitude than our beloved 744s. Why then is there a problem out of San Francisco that is any greater than that presumably dealt with by A343s, 744s etc.

The location of San Bruno Mountain at the end of the 28s is a problem for B747-400s. UA reportedly need more fuel to fly their B747-400s SFO-SYD than they do for LAX-SYD -- despite the 62nm shorter distance.

When SQ ordered their WhaleJets, the intention was that SQ1/SQ2 SIN-HKG-SFO would be the first route to get it. It has since become more urgent to add capacity to SQ317/SQ322 LHR-SIN-SYD. The LHR-SIN segment is always booked to capacity and, by getting in quick to SYD, SQ can snub QF over their scuttling/delaying of SQ's previously agreed SYD-LAX rights.

Now there are reports of doubts about whether or not the WhaleJet will be able to operate SFO-HKG with a viable payload. It's been a long time since SQ has said anything about upgauging SQ1/SQ2 with the WhaleJet.

I just don't see any reason for SQ to want to fly the WhaleJet across the Pacific. I think most of the capacity additions we'll see will be nonstops. SQ has even talked of 2x daily SIN-LAX nonstop. I asked in another thread whether the improvements to the B777 might make it possible for SQ to operate a 240 seat B777-300ER SFO/LAX-SIN.

I have heard rumors from SQ and from Boeing (which may or may not be true) that SQ has at least told Boeing that SQ would consider cancelling some or all of their WhaleJet orders if Boeing were to offer a sufficiently good deal on the B747Adv. Even if this rumor is true, it may just be a negotiating ploy. Then again, it could happen. I don't think that even the negotiators on SQ's side know for sure.

Given that SQ can get all their money back on their WhaleJet deposits, that they are quite unhappy with Airbus over the 8 month (cumulative) delay, and that the B747Adv may have lower CASM, there is surely some price at which Boeing could sell the B747Adv that would motivate SQ to cancel all their WhaleJet orders. Would Boeing sell at that price? Probably not. Would Boeing sell at a higher price that motivates SQ to cancel only some of their WhaleJet orders? We'll have to wait and see.

Of course, the WhaleJet will enter service about 28 months ahead of the new JumboJet, which is the greatest reason why I think SQ will take delivery of at least some of their WhaleJet orders -- unless Boeing can find an early morning LHR slot for SQ.
 
Boogyjay
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:00 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 22):
I have heard rumors from SQ and from Boeing (which may or may not be true) that SQ has at least told Boeing that SQ would consider cancelling some or all of their WhaleJet orders if Boeing were to offer a sufficiently good deal on the B747Adv.

Wow!  eyepopping .

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 22):
Even if this rumor is true, it may just be a negotiating ploy

If indeed that were true, I think you'd be right here.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 22):
Given that SQ can get all their money back on their WhaleJet deposits

Actually, has it ever been made official somewhere? Isn't it just spreading rumours from some journalists? I'm not sure if it is or not. Could someone point me toward something substantial to enlight me please?
And I remember that it was "up to 1 year prior delivery". As some SQ executives were quoted saying 1st delivery would take place 20th Nov'06, if the deposit thing is true, there is not much time left.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 22):
that they are quite unhappy with Airbus over the 8 month (cumulative) delay

They indeed are, not to say more.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 22):
and that the B747Adv may have lower CASM

Boeing's claim, right? I'm waiting for the final figures from Airbus for the A380 and I'd like to have the figures Boeing promises to SQ, even if they'll not be the actual figures.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 22):
Would Boeing sell at that price? Probably not

I disagree. I'm not sure Boeing would let such an opportuneness to blow Airbus' flagship. Imagine what that would do if the launch customer, SQ, one of the most respectable airline in the world, were to cancel the A380 for the B747Adv. Boeing would surely not bother selling them at lost (though I don't think they would go as far as giving the planes for free + cash on top of that  Smile ).

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 22):
the WhaleJet will enter service about 28 months ahead of the new JumboJet

I think you got it 100% right here again. That's a very important thing for SQ and their marketing department. They want to be the 1st to have a top-class product. Even the average Joe, who has no clue about aviation or the importance of SQ, will or already knows that SQ is the 1st to fly the A380. That's one of a hell of advertising.
The marketing coverage already began for the A380 and there is nothing I can think of which would stop that.
First to fly. Be part of aviation. Experience the difference in 2006
 
norcal
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:12 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 22):
I have heard rumors from SQ and from Boeing (which may or may not be true) that SQ has at least told Boeing that SQ would consider cancelling some or all of their WhaleJet orders if Boeing were to offer a sufficiently good deal on the B747Adv. Even if this rumor is true, it may just be a negotiating ploy. Then again, it could happen. I don't think that even the negotiators on SQ's side know for sure.

I will probably be struck by lightning before SQ gives up the A380. Though, hypothetically speaking, if I was fried and SQ did cancel the A380, that would be an enormous psychological blow to the A380 program.

I think that if there is an truth to this rumor, it is probably just a ploy by SQ to make Airbus sweat and get more concessions.
 
CrazyHorse
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:32 am

Quoting NorCal (Reply 24):

Sure, when SQ cancel the A380 it would be an enormous psychological blow for Airbus and the A380 program.
But this rumor seems very strange too me.
Why?
SQ making advertisement, because they were the first airline which receive the A380 and the first airline with schedule A380 flight.
SQ is surly unhappy with the delay of the A380, but they will not cancel this order.
 
norcal
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:44 am

Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 25):
SQ making advertisement, because they were the first airline which receive the A380 and the first airline with schedule A380 flight.
SQ is surly unhappy with the delay of the A380, but they will not cancel this order.

Which is why I said I would be struck by lightning before the order is cancelled
 
flyinghippo
Topic Author
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:51 am

So no one knows WHEN SQ will announce their order?

Didn't know there was an actual RFP for CX, no one knows when they'll decide/announce their orders either?
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:43 am

Quoting NorCal (Reply 24):
I think that if there is an truth to this rumor, it is probably just a ploy by SQ to make Airbus sweat and get more concessions.

Here SQ have the opportunity to simultaneously get greater concessions from Airbus for the late deliveries and to get lower prices from Boeing on the B747Adv. The more I think about it, the more I think that SQ would be crazy not to be going down this road.

Of course, that doesn't mean that SQ will cancel some or all of their WhaleJet orders. That will depend on just how low Boeing go on price. Again, I don't believe Boeing will offer SQ the B747Adv at a price so low that SQ would cancel all their WhaleJet orders. Some, maybe, but all seems very unlikely.
 
airtropolis
Posts: 148
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:38 am

PhilSquares, welcome to my respected list! It is always interesting to hear those little tidbits on what is brewing up at SQ.

Please enlighten us a bit though, a few weeks ago, you mentioned that SQ is worried about the range capabilities of the A380 on the SIN-HKG-SFO route, and has instead decided to employ the B773ER on the route instead. On this post however, you indicate that the route may be a candidate for the A380, have you heard something new on this? In my mind, I do think that the A380 will eventually go on the route, given its popularity, whatever the performance of the plane is.

Based on some of the previous posts on this thread on where SQ will employ the A380 and B773ER on, I would also like to add my 2cents:
SIN-LHRvv (2x daily - 4 A380)
SIN-SYDvv (1x daily - 2 A380 - aircraft for the popular SQ222 spends a lot of time on the ground at SYD)
SIN-SYDvv (3x weekly - 1 A380 - these will serve the morning flights from both SIN/SYD that overnight at SYD)
SIN-NRTvv (1x daily - 1 A380)
SIN-HKG-SFO (1x daily - 2 A380)
In addition, I would imagine that they would use the A380 on one other daily flight to HKG but these flights would be covered during the ground time of the aircraft.

Destinations such as SIN-AKL/ZRH/MAN I feel are better off with the B773ER, which leaves routes like SIN-NRT-LAX; SIN-FRA-JFK 1 SIN-MELvv flight and perhaps SIN-CDG which may be covered by aircraft under the latest RFP. I have also heard rumours of the SIN-ICN-SFO/YVR and maybe SIN-TPE-LAX flights going B773ER as well which will mean some movement of the B772ERs to some other routes
 
CrazyHorse
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:16 am

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:11 am

Quoting Airtropolis (Reply 29):
Based on some of the previous posts on this thread on where SQ will employ the A380 and B773ER on, I would also like to add my 2cents:
SIN-LHRvv (2x daily - 4 A380

SQ has three daily flights from LHR to SIN an back, when the A380 arrive will SQ also fly thrice times this route or will be one flight canceled or downgrade from a B744 to a B772ER?
And FRA will receive no A380? I´m pretty sure, that FRA has enough pax to fill a daily A380 for SQ. FRA is the biggest Star Allicane Hub in Europe I would be really amazed if FRA receive no daily SQ A380.


Manuel
 
PhilSquares
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting Airtropolis (Reply 29):
On this post however, you indicate that the route may be a candidate for the A380, have you heard something new on this?

I was talking about the initial plan. SIN-CDG will be a 773ER when it's introduced. And I wouldn't be surprised of they ran 2 380s to LHR because the demand is there.

One thing to consider is that politics has now entered the equation. Realistically, I wouldn't be surprised to see the 380 at both SYD and MEL. However, time will tell.

There is still some very big concern about SFO-HKG in the winter. Until the flight test is done on the 380, no one knows.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
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RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 30):
SQ has three daily flights from LHR to SIN an back, when the A380 arrive will SQ also fly thrice times this route or will be one flight canceled or downgrade from a B744 to a B772ER?

SQ will not downgauge any of the LHR flights to a B777-200ER. SQ317/SQ322 need to be upgauged to either a B747Adv or better a WhaleJet as that is consistently booked to capacity. The other two flights don't have the demand to justify a WhaleJet, IMO, but might upgauged to a B747Adv or eventually downgauged to B777-300ER. I think SQ would delay downgauging these as long as they can reasonably keep the B747-400s flying.

Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 30):
And FRA will receive no A380? I�m pretty sure, that FRA has enough pax to fill a daily A380 for SQ. FRA is the biggest Star Allicane Hub in Europe I would be really amazed if FRA receive no daily SQ A380.

I fly this route a lot. The late FRA departure sometimes goes out full, but the early departure generally does not. I could see the late departure being upgauged to a B747Adv and the early departure downgauged to a B777-300ER.
 
CrazyHorse
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:16 am

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 32):
SQ will not downgauge any of the LHR flights to a B777-200ER. SQ317/SQ322 need to be upgauged to either a B747Adv or better a WhaleJet as that is consistently booked to capacity. The other two flights don't have the demand to justify a WhaleJet, IMO, but might upgauged to a B747Adv or eventually downgauged to B777-300ER. I think SQ would delay downgauging these as long as they can reasonably keep the B747-400s flying.

I think the same, SQ need´s ever capacity from LHR, but also other Airlines expand their capacity from LHR to SIN or other Asian city´s. The question is, if there is really a such big demand to fill 2 daily A380 and an daily B747 only for SQ.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 32):
I fly this route a lot. The late FRA departure sometimes goes out full, but the early departure generally does not. I could see the late departure being upgauged to a B747Adv and the early departure downgauged to a B777-300ER.

Really, that is a bit surprising for me.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:46 am

Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 30):
And FRA will receive no A380? I�m pretty sure, that FRA has enough pax to fill a daily A380 for SQ. FRA is the biggest Star Allicane Hub in Europe I would be really amazed if FRA receive no daily SQ A380.



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 32):
I fly this route a lot. The late FRA departure sometimes goes out full, but the early departure generally does not. I could see the late departure being upgauged to a B747Adv and the early departure downgauged to a B777-300ER.



Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 33):
Really, that is a bit surprising for me.

There are currently 4 daily B747-400s flying FRA-SIN. 2x SQ, 1x LH, and 1x QF. LH and SQ codeshare on each other's flights in this market. Keep in mind that the daytime departure from FRA is a continuation of SQ's JFK-FRA service. I've never seen that flight full and the aircraft sits on the ground all day at JFK. Not a good place to put a WhaleJet.

An alternative for SQ would be to operate 3x daily B777-300ERs to FRA with one going onward to JFK. With 3x daily, the timing can be set up such that the aircraft doesn't have to sit on the ground all day at JFK. It can do a 2 hour turn.
 
airtropolis
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 10:42 pm

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:57 am

Re: SQ A380 routes:

With the information we have now, SQ have only mentioned 3 destinations for the A380. Of these 3, 2 are basically confirmed: SYD, LHR, while a few weeks ago, there was a news report in Channel News Asia reporting that CEO Chew Choon Seng indicating that NRT is a possible destination in 2007.

As for the rest we can only speculate, however based on the numerous threads on Anet, it appears that SQ1/2 SIN-HKG-SFO is perhaps the most or one of the most profitable flights for SQ so this seems to be a likely candidate for the A380 (plus it gives SQ a leg up over their strongest regional competitor, CX).

While the FRA night flights are certainly very popular (as is SIN-NRT-LAX, where I see the same issue), I do not see them being an immediate candidate for the A380 simply due to the fact that the other routes will need them more, not to mention the fact that these flights will probably need at least 3 aircraft assigned to them because they continue on to JFK where there is a lengthy layover time. With only 10 A380s on order, there are only so many routes that can go with the A380.

I do see SQ keeping the B744s for some more time as such, with the new RFP bringing in aircraft for replacement on the other routes. It should be noted that with 27 B744s in the fleet currently, the 10 A380s and 19 B773ERs on order more than sufficiently cover the replacement needs of the B744 fleet, the aircraft in the RFP will allow for growth and perhaps, replacement for some of the older B772s
 
kaitak
Posts: 10094
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:02 am

There's going to be a lot of new orders before the end of this year (even before the end of this month ... even before the end of today, if Aeroflot keeps to its promise!) and I can see Airbus being sorely disappointed. I don't want to turn this into an A -v- B battle (I'm neutral - whichever plane can do the job is fine by me), but Airbus has created some credibility problems for itself:

- Delivery delays on the 380s as mentioned above;
- The generally lacklustre reception to the A340-5/600; for instance, CX.
- Airbus promising the world for the A350, when its really a souped up version of an older (admittedly superb) aircraft, compared to Boeing's all new aircraft, and this at a time when existing aircraft are falling short of promises.

(If only everything at Airbus performed as well as Mr. Leahy's mouth!)

That, I think, is going to have an effect. I have no doubt that SQ is extremely cheesed off at Airbus, but I just can't see them going for passenger 747As.

Qantas, I think, will go all Boeing.
Cathay, given its deafening silence over its three A340-600s, will also go Boeing and will be a launchie for the 747A, but more than likely the cargo model.
Emirates will go for the 787, but it's a close call.
Aeroflot is too close to call, to my mind.
SIA ... 777-200LR, 787-3/800, possibly 747A-F

I'm also particularly keen to see where those ILFC 787s will end up.

One big issue at present is not so much what happens in 4-5 years time, but in 2006-7. Airlines are crying out for widebody capacity, which simply isn't there and I think short-medium term capacity and production rate increases may be a factor in getting longer term orders. At present, I don't think there is any space on the A330/340 or 777 production lines - either direct buy or lease - for 2006. Can anyone confirm and if you know, for goodness sake, tell Aer Lingus!
 
Glom
Posts: 2056
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:20 am

I used to be enthusiastic about the 747ADV, but it seems like its launch is always just around the corner and when that corner comes, it's around the next one. Plus, Boeing seem to have downsized the performance projections so it won't have that CASM advantage we thought it would originally.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:28 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 36):
I have no doubt that SQ is extremely cheesed off at Airbus, but I just can't see them going for passenger 747As.

Why is that? You don't see a large gap between the B777-300ER and the WhaleJet?

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 36):
I don't think there is any space on the A330/340 or 777 production lines - either direct buy or lease - for 2006. Can anyone confirm

I'm not sure about the A330/A340 line, but there are definitely no delivery 2006 delivery slots available for the B777.
 
dalecary
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2000 10:28 am

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:04 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 36):
Qantas, I think, will go all Boeing.

Unlikely IMO. Could get the majority of the order but some sort of split seems more likely with JQ possibly getting A359s and QF maybe converting some A380 options.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 36):
Cathay, given its deafening silence over its three A340-600s, will also go Boeing and will be a launchie for the 747A, but more than likely the cargo model.

I understand the CX RFP to be for 346HGW v 773ER. Airbus still has a reasonable chance here, even though the 773ER is probably the favourite.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 36):
Emirates will go for the 787, but it's a close call.

Unlikely. The 787-10 hasn't been formally offered to EK yet and Boeing have said they are concentrating on other 787 models and the747Adv launch.
EK will almost certainly order a truckload of A359s and a substantial number of 772LR/77F/773ER as well.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 36):
Aeroflot is too close to call, to my mind.

Agreed. Doesn't look like we will find out today, though.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 36):
SIA ... 777-200LR, 787-3/800, possibly 747A-F

772LR and 788, yes. 747Adv, I think the jury is still out on this one. More chance of a freighter order than a pax one IMO.
 
MarshalN
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:23 am

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 39):
I understand the CX RFP to be for 346HGW v 773ER. Airbus still has a reasonable chance here, even though the 773ER is probably the favourite.

With CX, it seems they have a preference for the 4-holer instead of a twin over long routes. They use the 777 mostly for their regional routes rather than flying them across the Pacific. HKG-JFK, for example, is done with an Airbus.
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2002 1:43 am

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:33 am

I wonder what the Airbus reaction to the 747A will be. They have got to be nervous about the prospect of this airplane that would pressure the lower end of the A380 niche.
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:10 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 36):
Qantas, I think, will go all Boeing.
Cathay, given its deafening silence over its three A340-600s, will also go Boeing and will be a launchie for the 747A, but more than likely the cargo model.
Emirates will go for the 787, but it's a close call.
Aeroflot is too close to call, to my mind.
SIA ... 777-200LR, 787-3/800, possibly 747A-F

I sincerely doubt Emeriates going with 787. Airbus MUST bag that one for the A-350 program; otherwise I agree with your assesment.
 
Glom
Posts: 2056
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:14 am

Are all these announcements expected before the end of the year?
 
flyinghippo
Topic Author
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:48 am

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:26 am

Still no news on any of these RFPs?

I can't wait to see the outcome!!

Like I said... 2005 might be the biggest year in aviation!
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14634
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:31 am

Boeing seems to have a good feeling about those RFP:


Boeing sales executives are increasingly confident that they have secured crucial orders for the company's medium-sized long range 787 aircraft, beating European rival Airbus's A350.

Sources have indicated that Boeing believes it will complete a deal with Singapore Airlines for as many as twenty 787s, which are known as 'Dreamliners', with Australian carrier Qantas ordering up to 30.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,6903,1635192,00.html
 
flyinghippo
Topic Author
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:48 am

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:35 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 45):
Boeing seems to have a good feeling about those RFP

Not sure how much credibility there is to the article... it mentioned that Leahy says Airbus might get up to 6000 plane orders... 6000?!?!

However, from all the indications from aviation articles as well as A.Net, Boeing seem to have an edge on SQ and QF's orders.
 
N60659
Posts: 639
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:24 pm

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 46):
Not sure how much credibility there is to the article... it mentioned that Leahy says Airbus might get up to 6000 plane orders... 6000?!?!

I think you meant to say 1600:

"Although Airbus chief operating officer John Leahy has said this year could see his company take a record 1,600 orders, it is expected that Boeing will re-take the lead in sales terms."

-N60659
 
flyinghippo
Topic Author
Posts: 776
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:48 am

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:44 am

Quoting N60659 (Reply 47):
I think you meant to say 1600:

Yes... 1,600.. sorry.. boss sneaked up behind me while I was typing the post...

Damn it! need to put a bell on him!
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 14634
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: QF And SQ RFPs

Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:51 am

Perhaps Airbus pulled out because they don't want to absorb all SQ's Boeings  Wink

I heard last month more then 30 airline pilot were allowed to try the A380 them selves. Three aircraft are flying.

Qantas & SQ pretty much know how the A380 is doing. SQ formalizing some of their 15 A380 options is not to unlikely IMO. (& picking in slots of potential competitors..).

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