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deltadude
Topic Author
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Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:50 am

Why are Chinese liveries so old-school? With the cheatline they seem a little out dated to me. Kinda reminds me of liveries from the 60s and 70s. What do you all think?


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Maybe it's a communist thing....something I wouldn't understand.  Smile
 
Matt D
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:54 am

All I can think of when I see these up and coming liveries and large A/C orders over there is the inevitable resource war over oil that the US and China are going to engage in someday soon.
 
md90fan
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:00 am

Almost of 'em look dated to me  wink 
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Gr8Circle
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:01 am

A typical 'Communist' look.... duck  in keeping with their social image....

But honestly, one would have expected the most creative liveries from Chinese airlines...one just has to take a look at traditional Chinese handicrafts and such things......
 
Stealthz
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:02 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 1):
All I can think of when I see these up and coming liveries and large A/C orders over there is the inevitable resource war over oil that the US and China are going to engage in someday soon.

Well that answered the question ....NOT!!

IMHO, it is a cultural thing, visit China and you will see that when it comes to decoration etc they tend to go for more "fussy" somewhat older world type feel.
Also as a culture they are not into changing for changes sake so liveries etc seem to go on & on.

Regards

Chris
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!....well that might have changed!!!
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:09 am

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 4):
Well that answered the question ....NOT!!

IMHO, it is a cultural thing, visit China and you will see that when it comes to decoration etc they tend to go for more "fussy" somewhat older world type feel.
Also as a culture they are not into changing for changes sake so liveries etc seem to go on & on.

They need to take a lesson from their fellow Communists in Russia...look at Aeroflot...they went from being one of the most dull liveries in the world, to really decent as of today....
 
QFA380
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:18 am

They all look pretty old to me. The China Northern looks horrible. Whoever designed these liveries must be VERY old school. Its not just the cheatlines that make them look old, its the colours aswell. And why do the major Chinese airlines have such boring names like China Eastern, Northern, Western and Southwest? They could have come up with some more interesting ones like Imperial Airways or something.
 
N754PR
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:28 am

The crap on A.net just gets better and better....

CZ, FM, MU, HU have great schemes. IN fact 50 times better than most carriers. Its not going to be long before the cheatline comes back on European / American carriers.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
WDBRR
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:32 am

All the liveries have one thing in common....white planes, with stripes going down the side and logo. they should create a bolder look.
 
Matt D
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:33 am

I'm still waiting for someone to come along and explain to me where Feng Shui came into play here.

How anyone can sit there and tell me all about chi....and lots of chi at that...and keep a straight face, I'll never know.
 
tzadik
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:43 am

Is China Airlines privately owned? Their livery is definitely a departure from the norm.
 
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Dalavia
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:51 am

China Airlines is from Taiwan, not Mainland China.

Shanghai Airlines is privately owned (or, at least, it is not part of CAAC like the three big airlines - Air China, China Eastern and China Southern).

Even so, its livery could not be called cutting edge!


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QANTASforever
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:59 am

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 6):
They could have come up with some more interesting ones like Imperial Airways or something.

Heh - considering the relationship between the Communist Party and the former Manchurian Imperial Throne - I very much doubt that "Imperial Airways" will replace the boring geographical names we currently enjoy.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
MakeMinesLAX
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:36 am

Quoting Deltadude (Thread starter):
Maybe it's a communist thing....

I think you're on to something there!

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The Dreamliner scheme would be a definite improvement to any of them.
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:13 am

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 12):
Heh - considering the relationship between the Communist Party and the former Manchurian Imperial Throne - I very much doubt that "Imperial Airways" will replace the boring geographical names we currently enjoy.

A quick lesson in modern Chinese history ... it may surprise you that all Chinese look to Sun Yat-Sen as modern China's founding father - he was the one who led the movement in overthrowing the imperial regime in 1911.

Actually I can't think of a worse name for any Chinese carrier than "Imperial" - it reminds the Chinese too much about European repression / colonisation (which is thankfully no more).

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 6):
And why do the major Chinese airlines have such boring names like China Eastern, Northern, Western and Southwest?

Well, the US has Southwest, Northwest ... and had Eastern and America West ...

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 5):
They need to take a lesson from their fellow Communists in Russia...look at Aeroflot...they went from being one of the most dull liveries in the world, to really decent as of today....

Well Aeroflot's livery only took a good turn after the overthrow of Communism.

If you really want an example of a Communist country with an amazing livery, look no further than Vietnam Airlines. The old livery was an absolute yawn and even worse than the Chinese examples, whilst its new livery is simply stunning. Its livery on the 772 is one of my favourites.
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
irelayer
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:54 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 5):

They need to take a lesson from their fellow Communists in Russia...look at Aeroflot...they went from being one of the most dull liveries in the world, to really decent as of today....

While I like the new livery for Aeroflot, the old livery was a classic and it was by no means "dull". It evokes certain memories...

I think once you start seeing private airlines in China you will start to see more creative liveries and such but state owned airlines always tend to go with more modest "professional" looks. In the scheme of things Chinese aviation is really just starting out...give them a few years to get all these new planes and all this new aviation infrastructure going and maybe you will see some more modern liveries...

-IR
 
N276AASTT
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:55 pm

BRING BACK THE CHEATLINES!!!!!!!!!!!! Add some detail to the "all white" trash that's flying around these days.
Dejale Caer tu el Peso! YOMO
 
deltadude
Topic Author
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:17 pm

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 14):
Well, the US has Southwest, Northwest ... and had Eastern and America West ...

Ok, granted the names aren't original. but.....the livies don't suck. At least they change and keep us capitalist folks interested.


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Quoting N276AASTT (Reply 16):
BRING BACK THE CHEATLINES!!!!!!!!!!!! Add some detail to the "all white" trash that's flying around these days.

Why? All white is like a canvas that inspires creativity.
 
FA4B6
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:00 pm

I happen to really like the China Airlines livery.


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komododx
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:15 pm

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 18):
I happen to really like the China Airlines livery.

Well there's a reason why it's different... it's Taiwanese.

Stefano  wave 
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centrair
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:40 pm

Quoting Komododx (Reply 19):
it's Taiwanese.

By all means of CHINA...Taiwan is a rogue province. But we are not going to get into that. I personally recongnize them as a different culture and country basically because their airlines has nice livery. This is why China should just let go. TAIWAN HAS STYLE. But sadly they will be crushed for their free thinking and insolence.

To think about something...I traveled to China in 1994 for the first time. China Northwest used mostly Tupelevs. I saw tons of Russian crafts then (most grounded for two crashes in a month). Now we see mostly A and B. Livery...hasn't changed. Probably won't until they feel its neccessary or the central committee calls for a "Revolution of Color in Flight".

But there are some nice ones out there. Hainan I think is above the others in quality. Its sleek.

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Otherwise...if they are part of CAAC...change is not in the vocabulary.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
je89_w
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:45 pm

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 6):
And why do the major Chinese airlines have such boring names like China Eastern, Northern, Western and Southwest? They could have come up with some more interesting ones like Imperial Airways or something.

IIRC, after the breakup of the main CAAC airline, smaller airline groups (still part of CAAC) were formed in different provinces for travel convenience, hence the name China Southern, Northern, Eastern, Yunnan, etc.

Privately owned airlines like Shenzhen Airlines, Hainan Airlines, and Shanghai Airlines were set up many years later.

I think that HU's livery is quite modern and classy:

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na
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:51 pm

Its interesting not a single mainland Chinese member writes something here.
From my western type of view all Red China carriers have outdated and sometimes even somewhat tasteless (China Northern) liveries.
As someone wrote the general taste of the Chinese people tends to be old-fashioned and "fussy" in western eyes, so I understand the "Olde worlde" look of domestic carriers. But Air China as the Flag carrier definitely needs something else as this 60s-communist-Aeroflot clone-livery "to keep up with the Jones´s". Air China´s livery shows a serious lack of marketing ability as well as a low sensibility for contemporary taste in the management.
 
PEK18R36L
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:46 am

This thread asks an outstanding question with implications in Chinese aviation that go far beyond the immediate issue of liveries.

For all of the progress that China's state-owned airlines have made since the breakup of CAAC into regionally-based carriers, one area where they remain embarrassingly weak is in what can be termed, in a word, "marketing." (Remember - the primary economic value of a great looking livery - apart from corrosion resistance - is marketing. Nothing like a 200-foot-long roaring billboard to call attention to yourself, eh?)

Indeed, the problem reaches further than liveries. Interiors, ticket covers, websites, brochures, uniforms, inflight magazines, and terminal signage are all in desperate need of redesign. English language translation of printed materials and safety videos ranges from only fair to atrocious. Check out the flag carrier's website to get a sample. Advertising is in desperate need of improvement, and the PRC's carriers have been among the slowest to start codesharing, and are nowhere near joining global alliances.

So the question is, why?

A little background first:

China's regulators realized early that the nation's airlines could benefit greatly by building partnerships with leading companies throughout the aviation world in a broad range of sectors. The primary focus of these partnerships have been operational. Air China joined with Lufthansa 16 years ago to create AMECO, an organization that has helped set the standards for MRO in China. Beijing Airport and Singapore Air Terminal Services formed BAIK, significantly improving the catering services available to airlines in China. Boeing, Airbus, and CAE have all established flight training joint ventures, and the list goes on.

While I think we're all delighted that China's aviation authorities (still called CAAC, now the PRC's version of the FAA) put operational excellence and safety ahead of other considerations, airlines have been slow to take the next step in their evolution toward becoming companies that can truly compete with their international counterparts. The most recent obvious improvements have been in in-flight service and cabin cleanliness, but marketing still lags.

I've heard several reasons posited for this. Some suggest that China's history as a supply-side economy is to blame - as long as load factors remain high, why bother spending money on marketing? If you fly it, they will come, as it were.

Others suggest that because most of China's airlines are struggling despite those high load factors, airline executives feel that spending money on marketing would be a foolish - and perhaps dangerous - misdirection of funds that should be going elsewhere, such as safety and fleet modernization. Still others suggest that because most of China's airline executives are either former pilots, engineers, or government ganbu (cadres), the industry's decisionmakers are unfamiliar with and therefore wary of marketing (and of paying anyone to help them with it). Finally, on a similar vein, there are those that say until the airline leadership passes to a generation of executives born after 1960, nothing is likely to change.

I think it's a mix of the above. And frankly, it's not going to change until one of the three major carriers (CA, MU, or CZ) decides to raise the ante and put some money into marketing. If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on CA to start the major image and marketing upgrade wars. First, they've just introduced new C class seating on their international flights. Second, they're an Olympic sponsor and the 2008 games are coming to their hometown. A perfect time for a facelift (hence the recent a.net speculation about a new livery). Third, of all three majors, I think it's fair to say they need it most.

In order to make these changes, the airlines need to part with some of their hard-earned cash and start bringing in some outside help, and they need to energize their internal marketing teams with a dose of global best-practices, then empower them to do the job.

And that implies steadfast commitment from the airline leadership.

And because of the ownership structure of the airlines, no significant sums can be spent on marketing until the regulators (CAAC state asset regulatory bodies) recognize the value of the exercise.

In sum, what needs to happen for liveries to improve is for executives to understand that doing so would be a good thing, and for government officials to understand why that would not be a waste of money, given the circumstances the airlines face today. And all that will happen. It will just take some time.

Sorry for the long post, but as noted, this is no simple issue.

David
In China, everything is possible - but nothing is easy.
 
B2443
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:36 am

Probably because people in China believe in more on the inside than the outside? It does appear that "marketing" is relatively a new word and few companies in China reallize it value. Most are still in a mold of "getting by with the day", instead of "looking pretty". Time will come though.

On the other hand, I very much doubt that the flying public will factor the airline livery (or any) in their decision making of purchasing an airline ticket. Price, price and price...which does not seem to difference from the rest of the world.
 
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yowza
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:42 am

What is with the white, light greay and blue schemes such as air china? I have noticed a lot of Soviet metal and looks like that. VN, SU and a number of other carriers have sported looks like that in that past. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

YOWza
 
ba319-131
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:53 am

Quoting N754PR (Reply 7):
CZ, FM, MU, HU have great schemes. IN fact 50 times better than most carriers

- I agree, they looks superb!
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CPH757
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:23 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 20):
TAIWAN HAS STYLE

Congratulations. You just won the joke of the day competition...Taiwanese design (not just talking airliners) is really just mainland China, with a lot of flashing light added  Smile

I really hate it, but appreciate that everyone in the world isn't alike. I suppose that many Taiwanese/Chinese find Danish design boring and ugly as well.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 20):
Hainan I think is above the others in quality. Its sleek

You beat on those pictures. Hainan indeed has a great livery. In fact i flew the first one of the aircraft pictured this summer (B-2646). They look great inside as well  Smile
Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
 
smokescreen
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:41 am

Quoting N754PR (Reply 7):
CZ, FM, MU, HU have great schemes. IN fact 50 times better than most carriers. Its not going to be long before the cheatline comes back on European / American carriers.

Right on. I can't believe people are seriously stating that China Airlines is better looking - those jets look like they belong in my mother's bathroom with her decorative soaps!

Cheatline + interesting tail logo = classic looks. Just ask AA.
 
Whisperliner
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RE: Chinese Liveries: Old-school?

Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:46 am

Actually I like the look of their liveries, and it does remind me of how airline liveries look in the 60-70's. I think thats a good thing, as jet travel was seen as luxurious then. I flew on China Eastern about two years ago, and their service wasnt too bad- good food, and the inside of the plane looked nice too. It certainly was a lot better than the service on US domestic airlines.

A funny thing about China, is that I noticed a lot of things there are REALLY old school- when I was in the duty free shop at the airport, I noticed they were selling "Kent" cigarettes...except the packaging design was the same that "Kent" used in the late 1950's, it even had the slogan "with the famous Micronite filter"!! Kent still sells cigarettes in the US, with modern packaging- and they long since dropped the Micronite slogan in the late 60's (the micronite filters were made of asbestos). I know the ones in China are authentic, as Kent did license them the name ect...but it boggles the mind why they would pick such an ancient design.



But I find this really cool- because, where else in the world can you go where you felt like you entered into a time warp- its the 60's all over again!

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