Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
jepstein
Topic Author
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:06 am

Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:09 am

My dad was going to SFO from BOS, Sunday on United and he was listening to channel 9. (Of Course) While he was listeing he heard the air traffic controler of Minneapolis center or something telling their plane, United 181, to contact Denver Center. As he listened, the pilot didn't answer even after the controler gave his instructions at least ten times. Finally, after ten minutes the controller asks "United 181, I've been trying to contact you, do you read me." The pilot at last responds, "Roger, United 181, sorry." At this point my Dad was ready to say goodbye to this earth, thinking of the Payne Stewart incident. I complaned to him saying: "You know a few things about planes, you could have at least tried to fly it!"

What are your thoughts? BTW, this is also a thread to post your channel 9 stories!
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:34 am

Well I have definitely heard pilots miss radio calls. I have never heard someone miss ten though. That is a lot, and would definitely get those pilots in trouble. After a couple tries ATC will probably start to get worried and presume something could be going wrong. There is a good chance that ATC will be telling the pilots to squawk 7600 as they are going to presume that something is wrong. It could be lost communications, or worse.

On a personal level while flying a Cessna, I have missed radio calls before. But have always got them on the second try and got a little chastizing from the controller. The worst though is when you respond to the wrong code. You can really get chewed out for that.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:49 am

Quoting Jepstein (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts?

It's really no big deal. If the ATC facility can't raise the aircraft, they call us (dispatch) and the flight's dispatcher will send the flight an ACARS message with the proper frequency for ATC contact.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
abba
Posts: 1385
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:08 pm

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:01 am

Could they be sound at sleep?

Abba
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:08 am

Quoting Abba (Reply 3):
Could they be sound at sleep?

Possible? Yes, but not very likely....

One of the -really- old guys here related the story of a DC-8 freighter that overflew its descent/landng into LAX and went out 200 miles over the Pacific. That crew did fall asleep (it was in the wee hours), and what finally woke 1 of the 3 guys up was the tone of the SELCAL going off over and over again as the dispatcher sent multiple SELCALs to the aircraft. They made it back to LAX...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
bayareapilot
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:53 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:14 am

If you're going to post Channel 9 anecdotes, please don't post the flight number and date. Posts like this are why some UA pilots don't turn it on.
 
jepstein
Topic Author
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:06 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:34 am

Quoting BayAreaPilot (Reply 5):
Posts like this are why some UA pilots don't turn it on.

AUGGGGHHH! Sorry, I'll try not to. I'd to be on a UA flight and channel 9 got turned ooff, that would s*ck.
 ashamed   ashamed 
 
[email protected]
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2001 7:23 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:12 pm

If I were a United pilot, I would not turn on channel 9 for the passengers. Too much stuff is said over the radio that the average Joe wouldn't understand and misinterpret as a threat to safety.

For example, you hear "United 181, cleared to land runway 9, windshear alert, plus 15 knots on short final." Would you still feel safe? Probably not, but you should. There is equipment on board the airplane that will alert pilots when immediate action is needed to escape a potential windshear hazard.

What if you heard "United 181, cleared to land runway 9, braking action reported poor by a 767." Would you second guess the pilots, wondering why in the hell their going to attempt to land on an ice covered runway when they know they're going to have very little traction when they touch down? Of course you would. You probably didn't know that the airplane can still stop safely and maintain directional control in a variety of ways.

So much jargon and very technical terms are used over ATC frequencies that most of the traveling public wouldn't dare to understand. Little mistakes are made constantly, but are corrected quickly by the pilot or controller. Channel 9 opens up a can of worms and I'm really surprised that United pilots choose to turn it on.
 
United737522
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:33 pm

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:19 pm

I rarely miss ATC calls. Usually I have to call in on final to get my landing clearance when it gets busy.
'Michael Mooronism' ~Jetjack74
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:21 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 7):
So much jargon and very technical terms are used over ATC frequencies that most of the traveling public wouldn't dare to understand. Little mistakes are made constantly, but are corrected quickly by the pilot or controller. Channel 9 opens up a can of worms and I'm really surprised that United pilots choose to turn it on.

I doubt if many people who don't understand it leave it on.  Wink
 
pilottim747
Posts: 1577
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 2:34 pm

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:52 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
There is a good chance that ATC will be telling the pilots to squawk 7600 as they are going to presume that something is wrong.

ATC will never assign 7600. It's kind of hard to do if you don't have communications with an aircraft. If the pilot can hear you but you cant hear them thats not lost comms as they can still receive instructions from you.

pilottim747
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
n234nw
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:06 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:09 pm

I remember sometime in the early 1990's. ORD-ROC. we were just handed off from whatever center was controlling the flight to ROC... The pilot identified his flight and altitude...

Nothing....

Again....

Nothing...

A minute or so went by, and he tried again.... Still, nothing.
Next: "Hello Rochester, Anybody home? This is United XXX"
Suddenly, a very hurried and out of breath controller chimed in. Who knows what he might have been distracted with.  Smile.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:32 pm

I remember hearing reports of the football scores while on a UA flight DEN (Stapelton) -LGA once. That was the first time I'd experienced Channel 9, and I've been in love ever since.  Smile

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
slashd0t
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 3:16 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:43 pm

We don't have any "Channel 9" on any Canadian carries.. I was lucky to be on a TED flight from DEN-MSO last summer and had my first Channel 9 experience.. Lightning had struck near the runway and we got sent around.. It was an interesting apporach to say the least.
/.
 
MarshalN
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:43 pm

On my recent flight on UA I heard other pilots missed calls -- I just remember the ATC calling that plane three or four times before that pilot responded.
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2245
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:25 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 2):
It's really no big deal. If the ATC facility can't raise the aircraft, they call us (dispatch) and the flight's dispatcher will send the flight an ACARS message with the proper frequency for ATC contact.

A WN friend told me a few years ago that WN didn't have ACARS? A cost savings thing...does WN have ACARS now?
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:30 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 15):
A WN friend told me a few years ago that WN didn't have ACARS? A cost savings thing...does WN have ACARS now?

A few years ago, that would have been true. We have it on all aircraft (now that the -200s (which never had it) are gone). I think the last aircraft was modified back in the begining of 2005.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:34 pm

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 14):
On my recent flight on UA I heard other pilots missed calls -- I just remember the ATC calling that plane three or four times before that pilot responded.

Missed calls happen. Sometimes mistakes get made with regard to the frequency, etc. No big deal.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
3201
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:16 pm

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:59 pm

Quoting Jepstein (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that I will NEVER say the slightest negative thing about anything I hear on Channel 9 to anyone, ever. Why give UA or any individual pilot the slightest excuse to make it go away?

Quoting BayAreaPilot (Reply 5):
If you're going to post Channel 9 anecdotes, please don't post the flight number and date. Posts like this are why some UA pilots don't turn it on.

Amen, and then some.  Smile

(With all due respect to the OP, who has already apologized pretty strongly!)
7 hours aint long-haul
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:29 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 7):
What if you heard "United 181, cleared to land runway 9, braking action reported poor by a 767." Would you second guess the pilots, wondering why in the hell their going to attempt to land on an ice covered runway when they know they're going to have very little traction when they touch down? Of course you would. You probably didn't know that the airplane can still stop safely and maintain directional control in a variety of ways.

I thought that if braking conditions are reported "poor" then it is not suitable to land on that runway and the plane should divert. When they say braking conditions are poor, that really means bad, and that diverting to an alternate or waiting on a better runway condition is the best course of action. Yes an airplane can maintain directional control via the rudder etc, but reverse thrust isn't going to stop you.

Quoting N234NW (Reply 11):
Suddenly, a very hurried and out of breath controller chimed in. Who knows what he might have been distracted with. .

I have definitely woken up a controller before. Coming into BFI, which is a controlled field but only sees some light general aviation traffic at night, at 1am one day, the tower was silent and it took me a couple of minutes to get a response.  Smile
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:24 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 19):
I thought that if braking conditions are reported "poor" then it is not suitable to land on that runway and the plane should divert. When they say braking conditions are poor, that really means bad, and that diverting to an alternate or waiting on a better runway condition is the best course of action. Yes an airplane can maintain directional control via the rudder etc, but reverse thrust isn't going to stop you.

I think you're confusing "POOR" braking action with "NIL" the latter of which pretty much shuts things down, and causes diversions. One can still have diversions with "POOR" braking action, but usually due to the associated crosswind limitations (5 kts, down from the usual 10 kts) being exceeded.

The list of braking actions is:

GOOD
FAIR
POOR
NIL
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:44 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 20):
I think you're confusing "POOR" braking action with "NIL" the latter of which pretty much shuts things down, and causes diversions. One can still have diversions with "POOR" braking action, but usually due to the associated crosswind limitations (5 kts, down from the usual 10 kts) being exceeded.

The list of braking actions is:

GOOD
FAIR
POOR
NIL

Ok. I am not familiar with operating restrictions that the airlines have, but I thought that when conditions were Poor or Nil that some airlines do not permit landings at some airports.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Channel 9 Story (No Pilots!?) (Yours Too)

Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:52 am

Quoting Pilottim747 (Reply 10):
ATC will never assign 7600.

Yea personally I would say, if able to recieve comm, ident. Then id try the 7600 squawk.

Anywho yea pilots miss calls all the time, but guess what, we do to (ATC). I cant tell you the times im writing in the tower and someone calls up and I have to come back saying "Aircraft calling tower, say again."

Anywho its really no big deal, if I wanted your attention THAT badly as a controler, youre gonna here me yell their callsign followed by immediate whatever. No big deal really.


ATCT
Trikes are for kids!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos