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zvezda
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SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:18 am

It seems from SQ's website that they have recently taken two JumboJets out of the operating fleet. Are they in heavy maintenance or have they been retired?

Are there other JumboJets scheduled to leave the fleet before the arrival of the B777-300ERs and the WhaleJets?
 
kaitak744
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:22 am

SQ is constantly finding ways on how not to use the 747-400 any more. They want to get rid of them ASAP. Maby 2 777-200ERs or -300s came out of heavy maintenance?
 
Mr.BA
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:43 am

Yes the number of B744s with SIA are on a decline. Many have gone to park and a few to airlines like Cathay Pacific, Iberia, Air Pacific.. etc. Many of the flights flown by B744s are being replaced by the B777s.
Boeing747 万岁!
 
aseem
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:44 am

I'm sure they're up for grabs by AI.
rgds
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ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
fraspotter
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:51 am

Quoting Mr.BA (Reply 2):
Yes the number of B744s with SIA are on a decline. Many have gone to park and a few to airlines like Cathay Pacific, Iberia, Air Pacific.. etc. Many of the flights flown by B744s are being replaced by the B777s.

It's a pity actually.... in my opinion I just find 777's quite boring to both look at and ride on. Sure they are an awesome aircraft, it's just that nothing can beat flying on a 747. Alot of the airlines are now phasing out 747s and switching back to "boring" single deck aircraft that in a way, all look alike. Such a pity......  Sad
 
zvezda
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:09 am

Quoting Mr.BA (Reply 2):
Many of the flights flown by B744s are being replaced by the B777s.

In the last 16 months, SQ have taken delivery of only one new aircraft. None are scheduled for delivery in the next 6 months. So ... what replacements?
 
Mr.BA
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:38 am

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 4):
It's a pity actually.... in my opinion I just find 777's quite boring to both look at and ride on. Sure they are an awesome aircraft, it's just that nothing can beat flying on a 747. Alot of the airlines are now phasing out 747s and switching back to "boring" single deck aircraft that in a way, all look alike. Such a pity......

As an aviation enthusiast I felt it was a pity too, almost the entire Terminal 2 at Changi is filled with B777s and almost every flight is a B777. I'm not saying that the B777 is an uncomfortable or bad aircraft but it'll be nice to have the B747s or even the A310s around to add to the variety and specialty. And I agree, nothing beats flying in a B747!  

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 5):
In the last 16 months, SQ have taken delivery of only one new aircraft. None are scheduled for delivery in the next 6 months. So ... what replacements?

I believe (or as I can see), the rate of decline of the B744s were at the highest earlier this year, as well as last year. The B777s replaced the A310s on regional routes, as well as the A343s on longe haul thin routes. SIA had ordered that many B777s that there are surplus after overtaken the duties of the A340s and A310s and the remaining of them are used to replace the B744s on routes that don't require such a capacity. Also note that first class demands are not high on many regional routes and many mainly tourist destinations, the B777s have number of seats close to the B744s without first class (only the SQx have first class seats as opposed to every B744). I think it all points to lower operating costs.

Add to that not every B744 will leave the fleet for now, at least not till the A380 arrives. Destinations like LON, LAX, SFO, HKG, SYD.. etc still justify the need for the B744s.

Hope this helps.

[Edited 2005-12-30 03:53:52]
Boeing747 万岁!
 
AC787
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:42 am

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 4):
Alot of the airlines are now phasing out 747s and switching back to "boring" single deck aircraft that in a way, all look alike.

Well, SQ will have the 380 soon, not to mention some 777-3's and hopefully 777LR's, and although u can say those are just the same as there other 777s u have to admit, looking at those engines is awseome. Have hope though, maybe SQ will order the 747-8 in the near future and the airframe will eb with SQ for another couple of years. I cant imagine a time when SQ isnt flying the 747, when i was 4 years old, the first 747 i saw was an SQ one, and its always the airline i think of when i think 747, i hope she stays with them for many more years. At least long enough for me to fly on it again.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 5):
In the last 16 months, SQ have taken delivery of only one new aircraft. None are scheduled for delivery in the next 6 months. So ... what replacements?

I would imagine SQ would always have some excess capacity and that getting rid of 2 aircraft would just make them have less of a cushion in case of mx or other unforseen problems. Just a guess though, wheres philsquares when u need him  Smile
 
airtropolis
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:10 pm

Hmmm, so now they operate 25 744s? They certainly have come a long way, from what I understand, they used to operate the biggest fleet of B747-400s. SQ used to misuse the B744s on regional routes to Hong Kong, KL and Taipei for example, but with the advent of the B777s were able to operate these routes more efficiently with the twin jets, imagine, at one time I believe they were operating up to 5 times a day to Hong Kong on the Megatops (as they used to be called).

On a related note, would any one know if some of the B744s are due for refurbishment once the new products to be introduced with the A380s and B773ERs kick in? I'm sure they will still be keeping these workhorses for some time as some of them are only about 5 years old and they won't be receiving the new aircraft all at once anyway.
 
United Airline
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:30 pm

I suppose the number of SQ B 747-400s will stand at 25 for sometime to come. And I think they will place a large order for the B 747-8 eventually. They certainly need more than just 10 A 380s. They will probably get more A 380s as well.
 
kaitak744
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:37 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 5):
In the last 16 months, SQ have taken delivery of only one new aircraft. None are scheduled for delivery in the next 6 months. So ... what replacements?

What????????????? Your source?



Boeing Deliveries
 
zvezda
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:18 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 10):

What????????????? Your source?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Airlines_Fleet

which, now that I look more closely, is out of date. I stand corrected.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:11 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 1):
SQ is constantly finding ways on how not to use the 747-400 any more. They want to get rid of them ASAP.

Right now the 744 will be in the fleet (pax) until at least 2010-2011.

Quoting Airtropolis (Reply 8):
would any one know if some of the B744s are due for refurbishment once the new products to be introduced with the A380s and B773ERs kick in?

Yes the balance of the 744s will be upgraded to the new interiors.
Fly fast, live slow
 
kaitak744
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:15 pm

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 12):
Right now the 744 will be in the fleet (pax) until at least 2010-2011.

Really? Remember we are talking about SQ here...

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 12):
Yes the balance of the 744s will be upgraded to the new interiors.

I highly doubt that. Once they get enough 777-300ERs and A380s, the 744 will probably be gone. SQ's freighter fleet is even kept at a new age.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:38 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 13):
Really? Remember we are talking about SQ here...



Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 13):
I highly doubt that. Once they get enough 777-300ERs and A380s, the 744 will probably be gone. SQ's freighter fleet is even kept at a new age.

First, I work for them, you don't. Secondly, not that there aren't some bright 13-15 year olds, but you're somewhat out of your league here. I would be more than happy to show you the memo that was sent out out about 8 months ago talking about the fleet plan and how the 744 was going to be around longer than it was first anticipated.

But, then again, what do I know????
Fly fast, live slow
 
zvezda
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:07 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 13):
Remember we are talking about SQ here...

Reminding PhilSquares where he works is offensive. You're obviously bright for your age, but you need to work on diplomacy. Don't look to the more offensive members of this forum as an example.

The average age at which SQ retire their aircraft is about 12 years, so there is nothing odd about keeping several in the fleet past 2010. Second, given expected growth, 10 WhaleJets plus 19 B777-300ER is probably not enough capacity to replace 27 JumboJets. Third, the gap between the B777-300ER and the WhaleJet is probably large enough to require that some JumboJets be kept in service until they can be replaced by B747-8Is.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 14):
I would be more than happy to show you the memo that was sent out out about 8 months ago talking about the fleet plan and how the 744 was going to be around longer than it was first anticipated.

If you can post the contents without violating any confidentiality requirements, I'm sure many people here would be interested and appreciative, myself included.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:18 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
If you can post the contents without violating any confidentiality requirements, I'm sure many people here would be interested and appreciative, myself included.

There is some pretty sensitive information on there. It's in a PDF format, so I have to censor some of it or print out the first page where the actual statement is about 2011. I'm on vacation right now and will try to do it in the next couple of days.
Fly fast, live slow
 
starguy
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:02 pm

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 4):

I actually find the 747 interior dated and cluttered, not to mention the fact that I find it's too noisy. I prefer working on the alternative at my airline. The most common complaint is the narrow seating, even on SQ.

My airline doesn't have the 777, but I have flown on it may times as a pax and find the interior FAR more pleasant and spacious. I hope that our A380's will have the same spacious, clean looking interior as the 777. I will have to wait until 2008 to find out.
 
FJWH
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:21 pm

PhilSquares:

Your a 747 Captain at SQ ... IF all 747's retire (at SQ) before your own retirement, which plane (do you think) are you going to fly? 777?

RGs from the Netherlands!
FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
 
na
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:42 pm

There are a number of 744s younger than many of the 772s and 773s SIA has. Wouldn´t SIA retire them earlier than the youngest 744s? Especially as new 773ERs keep pouring in to make Changi a boring place. Remember by 2010 the oldest 777s in SIAs fleet will be old metal by the airlines standard.
 
zvezda
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:51 pm

According to the link in Reply 10, SQ took delivery of a new B747 in 2005. Perhaps that was a freighter, but it's still being flown by SQ B747 pilots.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:19 pm

Quoting FJWH (Reply 18):
Your a 747 Captain at SQ ... IF all 747's retire (at SQ) before your own retirement, which plane (do you think) are you going to fly? 777?

RGs from the Netherlands!

Well, the freighter will be around. I'm actually hoping SQ does order the 748F or 748I. I would only have a couple of years left to fly in 2011 anyhow.

On the 777 you have to work too many days, I don't want to fly the 380, so the 744 is it for me.
Fly fast, live slow
 
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ajaaron
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:31 pm

Phil -

are you rostered for the SQ 321 tomorrrow night? i.e. 31 Dec. 2215 departure?
 
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RobK
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:41 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 20):
According to the link in Reply 10, SQ took delivery of a new B747 in 2005. Perhaps that was a freighter, but it's still being flown by SQ B747 pilots.

It was a freighter. I have the full details right here :

Dept PAE 2124z 19 Oct 05 as SQC7189 to Seoul ICN, 9V-SFP B747-412F cn 32902/1364, block RL435, selcal AQDP.

I have the details for the 3x B773's that delivered this year too if you require them (9V-SYJ/K/L).

RK  spin 
 
singaporegirl
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:08 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 12):
Yes the balance of the 744s will be upgraded to the new interiors.

i've heard about this as well. i'm actually hoping that they'd update the interior of our regional b777 as well. as i've mentioned on a different thread that the premium cabins of our long haul and regional a/c are simply too different from one another.
Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
 
Tod
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:12 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 12):
the balance of the 744s will be upgraded to the new interiors.

Any idea if the primary vendors have been selected?
IIRC - The last rounds of 744 reconfiguration were done by Jamco.

Tod
 
zvezda
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:03 am

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 24):
i've heard about this as well. i'm actually hoping that they'd update the interior of our regional b777 as well. as i've mentioned on a different thread that the premium cabins of our long haul and regional a/c are simply too different from one another.

As a PPS member, I wholeheartedly agree. Product consistency is important.
 
scottieprecord
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:45 am

There's an ex-Singapore 744 at KSAT right now (reg. N733BA). It left the SQ fleet, I believe, around August 2005. From what I've heard It's undergoing a freighter conversion. But I havn't recieved any information as to who will be operating it when that is complete.
 
scottieprecord
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:46 am

There's an ex-Singapore 744 at SAT right now (reg. N733BA). It left the SQ fleet, I believe, around August 2005. From what I've heard It's undergoing a freighter conversion. But I havn't recieved any information as to who will be operating it when that is complete.

[Edited 2005-12-30 20:51:56]
 
kaitak744
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:48 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 14):
First, I work for them, you don't. Secondly, not that there aren't some bright 13-15 year olds, but you're somewhat out of your league here. I would be more than happy to show you the memo that was sent out out about 8 months ago talking about the fleet plan and how the 744 was going to be around longer than it was first anticipated.



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
Reminding PhilSquares where he works is offensive. You're obviously bright for your age, but you need to work on diplomacy. Don't look to the more offensive members of this forum as an example.

I honestly do apologize. I really did not know that PhilSquares has such a position in SQ. I stand corrected and sorry.

But just in my opinion, I am surprised that SQ plans to use 744s for soo long.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 14):
I would be more than happy to show you the memo that was sent out out about 8 months ago talking about the fleet plan and how the 744 was going to be around longer than it was first anticipated.

Yes, I would be interested in this memo, if it is not too much trouble for you. (SQ is actually my favorite airline and I am interested in everything it does. But apparently, I missed this bit of info.).
 
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Stitch
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:01 am

Looks like SQ took delivery of a 777-300 on March 4th, March 11th, and May 6th. Before that, their last deliveries (772ERs and 773s) were in August 2004.
 
zvezda
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:18 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 29):

But just in my opinion, I am surprised that SQ plans to use 744s for soo long.

SQ typically operate their Boeings in passenger service for about 12 years. If the fleet were constant in number, that would obviously mean an average age of 6 years. Because the fleet is growing, the average age is nearer to 5 years.
 
AF022
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:54 am

N733BA was manufactured in 1988.

Is SQ going to retire any more B744s, or lease them out, or sell them, in the near future, or have they stopped for now?
 
PhilSquares
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting Ajaaron (Reply 22):
are you rostered for the SQ 321 tomorrrow night? i.e. 31 Dec. 2215 departure?

No, I'm on vacation until the 3rd, then it's off on 12 day freighter trip.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 32):
Is SQ going to retire any more B744s, or lease them out, or sell them, in the near future, or have they stopped for now?

According to the senior management, you probably won't see any more depart SQ for some time. They want to do a couple of things, first wait and see who the introduction of the 380 goes, secondly they want to upsize some markets but not to the 380.

SQ got burned by getting rid of the 744s they did. Right now there is a lift shortage at SQ, however, it's further complicated by a pilot shortage.
Fly fast, live slow
 
zvezda
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sat Dec 31, 2005 7:33 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 33):
According to the senior management, you probably won't see any more depart SQ for some time. They want to do a couple of things, first wait and see who the introduction of the 380 goes, secondly they want to upsize some markets but not to the 380.

SQ got burned by getting rid of the 744s they did. Right now there is a lift shortage at SQ, however, it's further complicated by a pilot shortage.

Wouldn't that be a good set of reasons to take the B777-300ERs on schedule rather than wait for the WhaleJet?
 
airtropolis
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 33):
SQ got burned by getting rid of the 744s they did. Right now there is a lift shortage at SQ, however, it's further complicated by a pilot shortage.

In light of the above, would it still be possible to bring back those 2 aircraft back into the operating fleet, should SQ decide on further growth, or have these been sold?

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 24):
i'm actually hoping that they'd update the interior of our regional b777 as well. as i've mentioned on a different thread that the premium cabins of our long haul and regional a/c are simply too different from one another.

I personally think it is fair that SQ has a separate configuration for Intercontinental and Regional routes as this is more efficient at meeting the market needs of the various stage lengths (with perhaps the exception of certain routes like the future SIN-DXB-DME for example), after all the European airlines have separate configurations and a sky suite or space bed is not really necessary for a 3-4 hr flight, though it would be nice, having a tighter configuration also means greater revenue from more seats available as well as greater payload as from what I understand some of the intercontinental premium seats do weigh a lot.

The question I have is what do SQ usually do with the seats on the aircraft they sell, do they keep them? Sell them like LH? I think that it would be a good idea if they moved the spacebeds to the first classes of the regional B777s as they are still quite new. Also from what I remember, some of the economy class seats are about 10 yrs old as I remember they were more or less the same seats from when SQ first introduced Krisworld and just re-upholstered and fitted with adjustable headrests right?
 
PhilSquares
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting Airtropolis (Reply 35):
In light of the above, would it still be possible to bring back those 2 aircraft back into the operating fleet, should SQ decide on further growth, or have these been sold?

Short pilots too!
Fly fast, live slow
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 33):
No, I'm on vacation until the 3rd, then it's off on 12 day freighter trip.

Can you share how you will spend the 12 days? Also in another post you talked of picking up a 200+K jetstream east bound into ANC. If you had been flying westbound that day what winds might you have found and at what altitude?How far off a preferred west bound track might you have deviated to find the most favourable ones?
 
PhilSquares
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RE: SQ Retiring More B747s?

Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 37):
How far off a preferred west bound track might you have deviated to find the most favourable ones?

Westbound you stay in the NOPAC which is a fixed track system. However, we quite often in the winter go up over Russia and down that way to HKG. Last time I did that, the winds were at most about 40Knots.

The trip is really pretty straight forward. SIN-HKG (22hour layover) HKG-ANC (36hour layover) ANC-DFW (36 hour) DH DFW-EWR (36 hour) JFK-AMS (48 hour) AMS-MAA (17 hour) MAA-SIN. It's a really easy trip. Only downside is the deadhead from DFW-EWR. Since it's a one way ticket, you are always a selectee. Plus, my bag is normally overweight!
Fly fast, live slow

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