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Orion737
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Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:02 am

I was very surprised to hear that only CO and PIA currently offer long haul flights from Oslo.

Even the national carrier SAS doesnt offer any long haul routes from Oslo. Surely the demand is there for a flight to Bangkok or Dubai.

Can we expect any future expansion in long haul routes from Oslo?
 
Humberside
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:11 am

Are there any charters to Asia from Oslo? Asia seems very popular from Scandanavia, particularly Thailand

I believe SAS used to fly EWR-OSL until a couple of years ago. However is Oslo big enough to support any more long haul flights? Whats the population of the city and the surrounding area? Any business or historical links that might support any future long haul routes?
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sk909
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:23 am

Yes and no... SK won't expand, but they should. If we are going to see new long haul from Oslo, it would have to be EK, or some American airline. The demand isn't that big, from Oslo. Remember that Norway is a big country, but only a population of a little less than 5 million people. And most of them live scattered all over the place.
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TheSorcerer
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 1):
Asia seems very popular from Scandanavia, particularly Thailand

SK routes to Asia haven't been doing too well.
https://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2497656

Quoting Humberside (Reply 1):
I believe SAS used to fly EWR-OSL until a couple of years ago

Yes I think it's only CO that flies EWR-OSL now.
Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
Orion737
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:56 am

Norway has a population of just under 5 million and its true they are spread all over the country but SAS Braathens has a very extensive network of flights connecting all Norwegian towns and cities with Oslo, so surely creating opportunities for an increase in long haul routes, particulalry as the Norwegians fly more than the citizens of most other European countries and that much of the population spends a great deal of air travel and foreign holidays.

I think Thai, with a route to Bangkok and EK with a route to Dubai would both work very well and could be high yielding. These routes would provide a good range of conections, thereby greatly increasing the choice of long haul destinations from Oslo.

Finland has a similar population yet Finnair has many, many more long haul routes than are avaiable from Norway.
 
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B742
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:08 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):

I think Thai, with a route to Bangkok and EK with a route to Dubai would both work very well and could be high yielding. These routes would provide a good range of conections, thereby greatly increasing the choice of long haul destinations from Oslo.

I agree  Smile

I think TG could make the route work with one of their new 777-200ER's they have on order, maybe serving OSL 3-4 times weekly direct  Smile

They seem to do well on CPH and ARN routes, both of which are being upgraded  Smile

Will we ever see TG in HEL?

I think maybe an EK service could also work to DXB, although depending on CPH loads  Smile

Rob!  wave 
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):
Finland has a similar population yet Finnair has many, many more long haul routes than are avaiable from Norway

true - but AY does not rely only on the Finnish population ...HEL is very conveniently located as an Asia to Europe Hub - while OSL is not well located as a hub .
 
Humberside
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:18 am

It seems Thai could work. From what I read on the thread posted by TheSorcerer, Thai are doing better than SAS on Scandanavia-Asia routes at the moment. Maybe start with a one-stop service a few times a week and build up from there, with interlines onto the SAS Braathens network at Oslo?
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A999
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:26 am

There is at least a weekly charter to Thailand flown by MYTRAVEL A330-300.
 
andaman
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):

Will we ever see TG in HEL?
Rob!

It has flown to HEL, years ago (with a stop in Germany, if I remember right),
but I really don' think it would be back in near future, unfortunately.
I would welcome the competition, though:
Finnair flies To BKK 12 times per week in mid winter, Air Finland once a week.
Plus AY's charters to Phuket.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
Orion737
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:53 am

Im also concerned about the PK route to Oslo, which is currently operated by the A310.

When PIA move to the 777 fleet, will they drop Oslo? The A310 is the right size for the PK flight to Oslo and Im not sure it could sustain a 777 capacity.
 
CRJ900
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):
Norway has a population of just under 5 million and its true they are spread all over the country but SAS Braathens has a very extensive network of flights connecting all Norwegian towns and cities with Oslo

The Oslo metropolitan area (Oslo + Akershus county) has 1 million people and another 500,000 live within 2 hours drive from Oslo - so that's nearly 1/3 of Norway's population of 4,6 million.

I think there is limited potential for widebody long-haul routes out of Oslo because of Oslo's proximity to big Euro cities served by the big carriers. BA,KLM,AF,LH etc offer great deals from Norway to the rest of the world with a quick stop at a hub, so many choose those deals. CO's 757-route works as NYC has that incredible allure and many Norwegians live in and around NYC - but I have heard people complain that the CO service is very expensive, so there may not be a market for more than 150 - 175 pax a day...

Many has mentioned BKK-OSL as a possible lucrative route, but some have pointed out that traffic is mostly low-yield, as in tourists, and I think that they are right. TG may be able to pull it off as they apparently have lower costs than Western carriers, but the main reason why MYT can fly an A330-300 OSL-Phuket is because they have 410 seats that are cheap enough for Norwegians to want to buy them. Becase we live in a very expensive country we crave everything "low-fare" even if it means sitting tight like sardines for 12 hours...
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
CRJ900
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 10):
Im also concerned about the PK route to Oslo, which is currently operated by the A310.

When PIA move to the 777 fleet, will they drop Oslo? The A310 is the right size for the PK flight to Oslo and Im not sure it could sustain a 777 capacity.

I have heard rumours that PK's Oslo-routes are incredible moneymakers, and I do believe that they fly B743s on the route, in summer at least. They have a monopoly on the route and charge an arm and a leg, according to rumours... I'll bet they'll put a 777 on the route eventually...
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
MAH4546
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:41 am

Thai announced service to Oslo a few years ago. It was a 744 (or 772, I don't remember) via Copenhagen, but the service was pulled about a month or two before the planend launch.
a.
 
scalebuilder
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:15 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):
I think Thai, with a route to Bangkok and EK with a route to Dubai would both work very well and could be high yielding.

While I don't doubt that Thai could fill up their planes flying to Oslo, I question wheather this route could be categorized as high yield. I would not expect much regular business traffic on the route. Tourist travel would likely be brisk, but seasonal.

I could see how Thai could succeed with Oslo served in conjuction with some other European capital e.g. CPH or ARN. Still don't understand why they haven't considered that. Maybe the reason is that their flights to these two capitals are simply too successful on a stand-alone basis.

Asian carriers have a preference for high capacity equipment for the long-haul destinations that they serve. Oslo certainly could not support that by itself as a specific destination. I could see success in this route if they followed a strategy similar to Continental's serving NYC with customary capacity adjustments during peak travel times.
Go the extra mile......and avoid the traffic!!!
 
gardermoen
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:22 am

Thai came very close to launching a route to Oslo in early 2004. It was publicly announced and it was in the reservations system. Three times weekly BKK-CPH-OSL 744 service.
At the last minute it got the chop though, I really dont know what the reason behind it was.
I agree, such a route would not be high yield. WIth current connections via CPH on SK, and HEL on AY, and the charters, - I think the market is sufficiently covered.

The other possible candidate is Emirates - Im sure they could easily do a 3-4 times weekly A330 operation, possibly combined with Stockholm or Helsinki. EK could easily target the large Pakistani and Iranian immigrant population in Norway on these flights, as well as other connections to the rest of Asia and Australia/NZ.
 
behramjee
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 10):
Im also concerned about the PK route to Oslo, which is currently operated by the A310.

When PIA move to the 777 fleet, will they drop Oslo? The A310 is the right size for the PK flight to Oslo and Im not sure it could sustain a 777 capacity

In the summer peak season June-Sept...PIA fly a B 743 twice a week to OSL nonstop from Pakistan.
 
andaman
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:58 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 6):
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):
Finland has a similar population yet Finnair has many, many more long haul routes than are avaiable from Norway.

true - but AY does not rely only on the Finnish population ...HEL is very conveniently located as an Asia to Europe Hub - while OSL is not well located as a hub .

Correct, location is the thing, and Finnair was in a right place at the right time.
The new "Asia Hub" also means better connections to Europe from HEL, happily noticed in Finland. Like the route to Venice was opened thinking the Asian tourists.

Could OSL be a hub to west, to Northern America, like Reykjavik is (in a way)?
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UpperDeck79
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting Gardermoen (Reply 15):
Thai came very close to launching a route to Oslo in early 2004. It was publicly announced and it was in the reservations system. Three times weekly BKK-CPH-OSL 744 service.
At the last minute it got the chop though, I really dont know what the reason behind it was.

I was about to say that yes, TG has served OSL via CHP in the past. But they axed it before commencing it? Wow, did not know that...

Quoting Gardermoen (Reply 15):
WIth current connections via CPH on SK, and HEL on AY, and the charters, - I think the market is sufficiently covered.

I flew HEL-OSL on AY on a Saturday morning last March. All of the other pax exept me and another Finn had just transfered from AY's BKK-HEL flight. Big grin
AY and ANA rock!
 
scalebuilder
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting Andaman (Reply 17):
Could OSL be a hub to west, to Northern America, like Reykjavik is (in a way)?

Not with CPH being the major long-haul focus hub of SAS. If SAS folded it's long haul operations alltogether, there would be room for more carriers moving in, but not really enough to make OSL a strong hub for any long-haul market.
Go the extra mile......and avoid the traffic!!!
 
DeltaMan21
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:26 am

I think CO has 757's to OSLO. I know they use them on the EWR-Belfast route, and I think they use them for the EWR-LIS route. Would hate to fly transatlanitc in a 757. It's too tight!
 
2travel2know
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:34 am

I think chances for U.S. - OSL new flights are very, very slim, even from the major BOS, ORD, IAD, DTW hubs.
This situation may change the day the B787 and A350 come into service.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
andaman
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:46 am

Quoting DeltaMan21 (Reply 20):
I think CO has 757's to OSLO. I know they use them on the EWR-Belfast route, and I think they use them for the EWR-LIS route. Would hate to fly transatlanitc in a 757. It's too tight!

Finnair tortures Finns as using 752 for holiday flights from HEL to Miami, Mexico, Brasil, Dom Republic, India, Phuket in Thailand... I not think the fuel stop reliefes the passengers pain...
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
diesel33
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:10 am

Quoting DeltaMan21 (Reply 20):
Would hate to fly transatlanitc in a 757. It's too tight!

Just flew RT EWR-TXL on CO in the main cabin and everything was great. I am still walking too! You really can't tell the difference...

Trust me.


diesel33
 
cedarjet
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:20 am

Quoting Diesel33 (Reply 23):
Just flew RT EWR-TXL on CO in the main cabin and everything was great. I am still walking too! You really can't tell the difference...

Trust me.

Exactly. Anyone who has ever flown a 757 longhaul (I don't mean charter configs btw) knows it's exactly the same seat, exactly the same legroom as a 767 or 747. The only difference is there's only 150 of you at check-in, boarding, immigration, baggage claim, instead of 300.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:38 pm

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 24):
Exactly. Anyone who has ever flown a 757 longhaul (I don't mean charter configs btw) knows it's exactly the same seat, exactly the same legroom as a 767 or 747. The only difference is there's only 150 of you at check-in, boarding, immigration, baggage claim, instead of 300.

As somebody who has flown with Icelandair 757's across the pond on four different occasions, I couldn't agree more with this statement. If you're flying in coach at least, you really can't tell the difference in comfort and personal space from that of a wide body. Of which I've also traveled long-haul on numerous times.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:43 pm

As for EK to Dubai. My father works for a a travel agent in Norway, where Dubai is one of their specialties.

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vadheim
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:17 am

I think OSL easily could support at least one Asian destination. The reason is simple, Norwegians together with Icelandic people fly more than any other in the world (according to statistics). Between 30 - 35 million flights are made by Norwegians each year, which is pretty impressive when the population is only 4.7 million.

Yes, we are a high cost society, but that also mean that we are prepared to pay more for tickets than others, which PIA is a good example of. The pakistani population in Oslo complain about PIA "milking the market" for what it is worth earning good money..... PIA serves OSL 3 times a week with both B747s and A310s, nonstop (1) and via CPH (2).

So, when ARN and CPH can support 3-5 Asian destinations alone OSL with a slightly lower population (1.1 million in Oslo and Akershus county) could easily support 1.

I think one Asian destination would do great, probably Bangkok. EK could also probably do well to Dubai, especially taking into consideration that Norway being a leading oil producer has a lot of high yield oil related business traffic (mostly from Stavanger, the main reason why both KLM and Lufthansa serves the city well). I am not sure about Dubai beeing a hot leisure destination though from Norway, most people would prefer Thailand and Spanish destinations at least so far.

[Edited 2006-01-04 16:25:18]
 
andaman
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting Vadheim (Reply 27):


I think one Asian destination would do great, probably Bangkok. EK could also probably do well to Dubai, especially taking into consideration that Norway being a leading oil producer has a lot of high yield oil related business traffic (mostly from Stavanger, the main reason why both KLM and Lufthansa serves the city well). I am not sure about Dubai beeing a hot leisure destination though from Norway, most people would prefer Thailand and Spanish destinations at least so far.

[Edited 2006-01-04 16:25:18]

I quess Dubai would work for Norwegians as it does for Finns, Finnair flies there twice a week in winter. But of course, Thailand is a different story for Nordics.
Would love to see EK in HEL too, to compete with AY (atleast to BKK, SIN, DEL?)
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
2travel2know
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:11 am

DXB - OSL could be an interesting market.
Oil related traffic between Norway and the Gulf States and a wide array of connecting possibilities at Emirartes hub for OSL passengers.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Long Haul Expansion At Oslo

Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:36 pm

Quoting Vadheim (Reply 27):
I am not sure about Dubai beeing a hot leisure destination though from Norway, most people would prefer Thailand and Spanish destinations at least so far.

Even though they started with Malta, my dad says Dubai is going great, and they just recently started South Africa. Now granted, Dubai is not a cheap destination. Prices are usually around 10000 NOK for a week, but they are still selling lots of tickets.

[Edited 2006-01-05 05:37:40]
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