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MAH4546
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AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:01 am

AeroMexico will be joining Mexicana in ending all service to Dallas. While their daily Dallas-Mexico City flights are still loaded in Amadeus, they are zeroed out in availability after 5 February 2006, which means the flights will be taken out of the schedule with the next schedule uploaded AeroMexico does. It is possible that they were accidently zeroed out, this does happen (it happened this weekend when AA's DAL-STL/MCI flights were zeroed out for a day), but that is very rare. Sad to see both of Mexico's major airlines pulling out Dallas. Mexicana service ends this Friday.
a.
 
TACAA320
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Sad to see both of Mexico's major airlines pulling out Dallas. Mexicana service ends this Friday.

Yes really sad. BTW, Aviacsa flies to Dallas or just to IAH?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Humberside
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:21 am

Why are the airlines leaving Dallas?
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:23 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 1):

Yes really sad. BTW, Aviacsa flies to Dallas or just to IAH?

Just IAH. I vaguely recall plans to fly to Dallas at around the same time they launched Miami, but the service was never realized. I do believe they applied with DOT.
a.
 
TACAA320
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 2):
Why are the airlines leaving Dallas?

Sorry about my deep ignorance, but which else?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 4):
Quoting Humberside (Reply 2):
Why are the airlines leaving Dallas?

Sorry about my deep ignorance, but which else?

Mexicana service ends Friday.
a.
 
ScottB
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 2):
Why are the airlines leaving Dallas?

Perhaps because new billion-dollar-plus terminal equals much higher costs for the airlines. And in the case of AM, they lost a bunch of feed from Delta when their DFW hub was closed just under a year ago.
 
TACAA320
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
Mexicana service ends Friday.

I know that thanks to you. But my question is based in the one placed by Humberside in reply #2, which is in plural. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:17 am

I'm not surprised by AM pulling out, but I thought MX would get some feed from the AA network.

I'm sure that DFW and AA will blame the pullout on the Wright Amendment uncertainty  Wink
 
BGOODAM
Posts: 127
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:26 am

Just flew that route, full plane by the way. Must be expensive to land there or something.
 
travelin man
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:57 am

Shocking that airlines are finding it difficult to compete with AA at DFW....
 
EddieDude
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:51 am

Quoting DeltaFFinDFW (Reply 8):
I'm not surprised by AM pulling out, but I thought MX would get some feed from the AA network.

In complete agreement with you. It seems AA just wants the whole cake for itself.

Quoting BGOODAM (Reply 9):
full plane by the way. Must be expensive to land there or something

Yeah, but at what cost? Loads may be really high but what matters is yields, and it is not a secret that AM's fares to DFW are really low so as to better compete with AA's six or so daily flights. I flew MEX-DFW-MEX last March with my return in business class and I did not pay more than $380 all taxes and charges included for the two flights. If AM is charging low fares across the board in this route, it is evident that they are not making any money.

This is really sad actually. Without AM, AA has this route all for itself and they can significantly reduce frequencies and increase fares to the detriment of consumers.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
PRAirbus
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:59 am

Don't be surprised, besides just being a major hub for AA, DFW is just a big airport in Texas. What does Dallas offer other than business centers? DFW can afford having just one carrier on the market (AA). MX and AM could use the planes for DFW on more profitable/attractive routes. DFW has international flights because it is a HUB and AAs main base otherwise it would just a major domestic airport in plain old Texas. Dallas is not NYC, LAX or MIA; cities that attract international airlines.
 
seatback
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:53 am

Been to the Dallas/Ft. Worth area lately? It's huge. The Metroplex has more than 8 million people and is home to numerous Fortune 500 companies. It's a large (or huge) O&D market (bigger than the Miami area). I too am surprised not to see more international service, but AA has a hold that any airline would envy. I don't think there's another market/airport the size of Dallas that is so controlled by one airline (I'm talking DFW here, not DAL). This is great for AA but not so great for consumers and competitors.

I'm also surprised to see MX pull out. I'm sure they'll eventually come back, they always do.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of

Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:02 am

Quoting Seatback (Reply 13):
The Metroplex has more than 8 million people and is home to numerous Fortune 500 companies. It's a large (or huge) O&D market (bigger than the Miami area). I

The Dallas metroplex, which is the 5th largest in the US, is 5.58M people, barely larger than Miami (which ranks #6) at 5.29M people. And the international O&D markets don't compare, Miami's is larger by a long shot. Domesticly, Dallas certainly gets significantly more domestic business traffic, but the Miami metroplex makes up for it with tourist traffic, so I don't think there is a significant difference at all.
a.
 
SESGDL
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:25 pm

Quoting Seatback (Reply 13):
Been to the Dallas/Ft. Worth area lately? It's huge. The Metroplex has more than 8 million people and is home to numerous Fortune 500 companies. It's a large (or huge) O&D market (bigger than the Miami area). I too am surprised not to see more international service, but AA has a hold that any airline would envy. I don't think there's another market/airport the size of Dallas that is so controlled by one airline (I'm talking DFW here, not DAL). This is great for AA but not so great for consumers and competitors.

The Dallas/Ft. Worth metro area is about 5 and a half million people, nowhere near the 8 million that you suggested. It's a much smaller O&D market than MIA/FLL and is also a smaller O&D market than ATL, both domestically and internationally. Though DFW does warrant lots of traffic, about 27 million O&D passengers a year, it's not the international city that Houston is, just 400 miles away. Most international airlines tend to use IAH instead of DFW, and due to DL's closing of their DFW hub last year, it isn't surprising that AM is ending service. And in terms of hub domination, I think DL's ATL takes the cake for the largest O&D market controlled by one carrier. Don't forget WN also carries a number of people in the D/FW area.

Jeremy
 
sflaflight
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:58 pm

Bravo! Bravo! Boys!

Don't even start to tell me that the metroplex is more international or a popular destination than Miami. Both Domestic and International, the Platinum Coast beats DFW hands down. Weather, fashion, people, and clubs!!!! Not 2:00 am clubs, sorry TX but 06:00 am and now, 23 hour liquor license. BTW, even business wise it's a misconception, while few big headquarters are located in South Florida, there are plenty of regional offices that merit air travel for 1 or 2 day meetings! Trust me, I work for a big international transportation company and there is plnety of business travellers coming down here! Wonder why AA jumped on MIA as a hub.
 
wjcandee
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:59 pm

Quoting DeltaFFinDFW (Reply 8):
I'm sure that DFW and AA will blame the pullout on the Wright Amendment uncertainty

Dang! (as they say in Texas). You beat me to it!
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:01 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
barely larger than Miami (which ranks #6) at 5.29M people

Just curious as to where one might find this ranking? Every CMSA listing shows the MIA area around 3.8 million and a ranking of #12 according to the 2000 census.

Quoting Seatback (Reply 13):
The Metroplex has more than 8 million people

And where pray tell did you pull that number? Better tell the folks around Chicago that the Dallas 'Metroplex' is about to eclipse their #3 ranking

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 15):
Houston is, just 400 miles away

Actually it's 240 miles away.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
SESGDL
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:21 pm

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 18):
Actually it's 240 miles away.

My bad. I didn't know it was that close.

Jeremy
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of

Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:09 pm

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 16):
Not 2:00 am clubs, sorry TX but 06:00 am and now, 23 hour liquor license.

*yawn*
you Floridian amateurs... a REAL party city knows no such thing as "last call'  Silly  Wink

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 18):
Just curious as to where one might find this ranking? Every CMSA listing shows the MIA area around 3.8 million and a ranking of #12 according to the 2000 census.

What they're referring to is the Greater South Florida Metropolitan Area (Dade + Broward + PB)... most commonly attributed to just Miami, seeing as it's the flagship city.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
ScottB
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:17 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 20):
a REAL party city knows no such thing as "last call"

Not to mention being able to get your drinks in a go cup...  Smile
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:43 pm

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 18):
Just curious as to where one might find this ranking? Every CMSA listing shows the MIA area around 3.8 million and a ranking of #12 according to the 2000 census.

In 2003, the United States redesigned cenus definitions based on more modern commuter patterns. Miami and Dallas both benefited. The new figures can be found here:

http://www.proximityone.com/msa03us.htm

The best true measure of a city's size is arguably what the United Nations uses, which are called urban areas, though often those figures are disputed. It is the more commonly used international scale, since it judges cities worldwide using one common scale, in comparison to other rankings which are localized. The United Nations rankings for America's ten largest cities are:

1) New York City - 18.4M
2) Los Angeles - 12.1M
3) Chicago - 8.7M
4) Miami - 5.38M
5) Philadelphia - 5.32M
6) Dallas - 4.6M
7) Boston - 4.3M
8) Atlanta - 4.2M
9) Houston - 4.2M
10) Washington - 4.1M

Unfortunatley, there are so many different rankings of population size going around, it is hard to really find one good one, though the same six US cities - NYC, LA, Chicago, Philly, Miami, and Dallas - frequently are the six biggest. After that it is usually inconsistent.
a.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:56 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
1) New York City - 18.4M
2) Los Angeles - 12.1M
3) Chicago - 8.7M
4) Miami - 5.38M
5) Philadelphia - 5.32M
6) Dallas - 4.6M
7) Boston - 4.3M
8) Atlanta - 4.2M
9) Houston - 4.2M
10) Washington - 4.1M

...wait, how does this list somehow manage to ignore the Bay Area, particularly if/when SJC is counted among them??
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
arffguy
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:05 pm

I just booked my flight from Love Field to Cabo San Lucas on Mexicana in June. Maybe they know something we don't.


Just kidding. Silly Couldn't leave that one alone.
Time to spare, go by air.
 
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drerx7
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:15 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
1) New York City - 18.4M
2) Los Angeles - 12.1M
3) Chicago - 8.7M
4) Miami - 5.38M
5) Philadelphia - 5.32M
6) Dallas - 4.6M
7) Boston - 4.3M
8) Atlanta - 4.2M
9) Houston - 4.2M
10) Washington - 4.1M

Not to nitpick--but Houston metro is larger than Atlanta and possibly Boston--especially after the absorption of well over 300,000 evacuees from Katrina and Rita.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
saigonhouston
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
The Dallas metroplex, which is the 5th largest in the US, is 5.58M people

Wrong.....Philadelphia is the 5th largest.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
1) New York City - 18.4M
2) Los Angeles - 12.1M
3) Chicago - 8.7M
4) Miami - 5.38M
5) Philadelphia - 5.32M
6) Dallas - 4.6M
7) Boston - 4.3M
8) Atlanta - 4.2M
9) Houston - 4.2M
10) Washington - 4.1M

Wrong again.....Houston is the 4th largest in the USA.

Knock knock in the head

saigonhouston
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:03 am

Quoting Saigonhouston (Reply 26):
Wrong.....Philadelphia is the 5th largest.



Quoting Saigonhouston (Reply 26):

Wrong again.....Houston is the 4th largest in the USA.

...course, had you actually bothered reading the last 13 or so posts, you'd realize we're talking about MSAs, not cities.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
saigonhouston
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 27):
...course, had you actually bothered reading the last 13 or so posts, you'd realize we're talking about MSAs, not cities.

Ouch....you're right.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:29 am

I love DFW opening the Billion Dollar Intl Terminal . . . for who??? Is DFW the next JFK?

They can't even fill DLs old gates! In just a few years, DFW has gone from a double hub to a large STL! What if Wright is appealed? You can go bowling on those 23 runways then!

New Int'l Terminal: A bigger White Elephant I've never seen!

PJ
 
legend500
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of

Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:53 am

...but an airport's market area is most effectively and correctly measured by the CMSA. Also, the Dallas-Ft. Worth area is split into two PMSA's due to size. That's right...the 4.8 million number DOESN'T include Ft. Worth and it's suburbs. from North Central Texas Council of Governments.

Quote:
How is the Dallas-Fort Worth Metropolitan Area defined?

The Dallas-Fort Worth Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Area (CMSA) is a combination of the Dallas Primary Metropolitan Statistical Area (PMSA) and the Fort Worth-Arlington Primary Metropolitan Statistical Area (PMSA). For Census 2000, the Dallas PMSA consists of eight counties: Dallas, Denton, Collin, Hunt, Rockwall, Ellis, Kaufman and Henderson, and the Fort Worth-Arlington PMSA consists of four counties: Tarrant, Parker, Hood and Johnson. Combined, the two PMSAs make up the Dallas-Fort Worth Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Area.

When that is considered versus the latest census estimates, the total Dallas metro population is over 6 million according to a report in 2005.
Christine Perez, The Dallas Business Journal. (Reg Req'd)


Quote:
N. Texas population tops 6M: 16-county area added nearly 150,000 people in 2004; 8 million expected by 2020

And when we compare that with the 2000 census CMSA rankings...Link to the spreadsheet at bottom of this page:

% increace in spreadsheet.

1. NY-NJ-Long Island 18,323,002 up 8.8% (since 1990)
2. LA-Long Beach-Santa Ana 12,365,327 up 9.7%
3. Chicago-Naperville-Joliet 9,098,316 up 11.2%
4. Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington 5,687,147 up 4.6%
5. Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington 5,161,544 up 29.4%
6. Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Miami Beach 5,007,564 up 23.5%
7. Washington-Arlington-Alexandria 4,796,183 up 16.3%
8. Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown 4,715,407 up 25.2%

...and when we extrapolate the percentages to 2005 (messy, but roughly correct) WE COME TO THE CURRENT RANKING: (whew!)

1. NY-NJ-Long Island 19,129,214
2. LA-Long Beach-Santa Ana 12,965,045
3. Chicago-Naperville-Joliet 9,607,821
4. Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington 5,920,290
5. Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington 5,817,951
6. Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Miami Beach 5,595,952
7. Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown 5,309,548
8. Washington-Arlington-Alexandria 5,187,071

...so there are the numbers. discuss.

[Edited 2006-01-05 17:54:21]
 
rojo
Posts: 2318
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:59 am

Houston did a much better job attracting wealthy Mexicans who bought properties in the Houston area, Galveston and Spring Texas / The Woodlands. Therefore, Houston-Mexico has a bigger O&D traffic than Dallas-Mexico. Additionally, the Galleria attracts more Mexicans along with San Antonio's Northstar Mall and San Marcos Outlet compared to the number of Mexican visitors to the Galleria in Dallas.

Aviacsa has been able to keep 1x daily to each (MTY and MEX) from IAH with good yields, since wealthy Mexicans are willing to pay more for their tickets. AeroMexico still has two daily flights from Mexico without feed to/from Continental, since the codeshare agreement will not start in the near future. Continental has been able to increase to 7x daily, but the main difference with AA's DFW flights is that not all CO flights get feed from/to their bank of flights, while on AA they all do...
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of

Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 23):

...wait, how does this list somehow manage to ignore the Bay Area, particularly if/when SJC is counted among them??

You answered your own question. San Jose and San Francisco are counted as seperate urban areas, no longer as one, but both the United Nations and the US Census. It is definitley one of the more controversial moves in the latest round of metro changes, along with seperating Los Angeles and Ontario.

Quoting Legend500 (Reply 30):
...but an airport's market area is most effectively and correctly measured by the CMSA. Also, the Dallas-Ft. Worth area is split into two PMSA's due to size. That's right...the 4.8 million number DOESN'T include Ft. Worth and it's suburbs. from North Central Texas Council of Governments.

The US govenrment no longer uses CMSAs, and the Dallas 5.58M number from 2003 does indeed include Ft. Worth.

[Edited 2006-01-05 18:05:29]
a.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of

Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 23):
...wait, how does this list somehow manage to ignore the Bay Area, particularly if/when SJC is counted among them??

Under the new guidelines, San Jose metro and San Francisco-Oakland metro are split. SFO/OAK metro is #12 and SJC is #30 but if you add the two populations together it would put the Bay Area back into the top ten.
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11205
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
The best true measure of a city's size is arguably what the United Nations uses,

Yeah, we can trust everything the UN says and does........ Maybe Texas can qualify for the oil for food program since their cities are only #6 and #9 on this list, not in the top 5. Does that qulify Texas as a third world nation?

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 25):
Not to nitpick--but Houston metro is larger than Atlanta and possibly Boston--especially after the absorption of well over 300,000 evacuees from Katrina and Rita.

Well, not exactly. It was the entire State of Texas that took 300,000 New Orleans area "refugees". Houston did get the most, at something like 120,000, followed by the DFW Metroplex with about 100,000. Lubbock and Aberline also got several thousand. As did San Antonio. Interesting that Austin got none.

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 29):
I love DFW opening the Billion Dollar Intl Terminal . . . for who??? Is DFW the next JFK?

They can't even fill DLs old gates! In just a few years, DFW has gone from a double hub to a large STL! What if Wright is appealed? You can go bowling on those 23 runways then!

New Int'l Terminal: A bigger White Elephant I've never seen!

PJ

No, you can only go bowling on DFW's 7 runways. Two at 13,401' 2 at 13,400', 1 at 9,300', one at 9,000' (including the 625' displaced threshold on 13L), and one at 8,500'. We have all of that concrete available to park all of those DL and NW airplanes. Then they don't have to be ferried to the deserts.
 
stirling
Posts: 3896
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:12 am

What were we talking about?
Oh yeah, AM pulling out of DFW.
This is not an argument of which city is more important, or bigger, etc..; Miami, NYC, Dallas, Houston, discussing that is a masterful pursuit of futility that has no bearing whatsoever on why AM discontinued service.

But is anyone really surprised?
At DFW? At AA? City Level? State Level?
Guaranteed no one is saying "Aw Shucks". Its what you get when you share the sandbox with someone like AMR.

The powers that be running DFW remind me of someone with OCD (Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder)
They realize they have a behavior that is unhealthy, but are unable to change this said behavior.
DFW must realize that having AA as the primary tenant and driving force behind the aiport's operation may be doing more harm than good in the growth potential of what should one fairly dynamic airport.

For all intents and purposes, DFW should be a model of global competition and commerce; but that is hard when one airline dominates as much as does AA.

The sad part is that no one cares except for the consumer. Does anyone think anyone with any sort of financial interest is losing sleep over DFW becoming AA's personal playground?
Probably not.
They more than likely own a sizeable chunk of AA stock:

Up ALMOST 200% Feb 05-$8.69, Jan 06-$22.34.

The proof is in the pudding. In an industry of bad news, AA is a darling right now...They are making some people rich at the moment and that will go much farther than any battle-cry of doing what is right.

I would not be surprised if the news of AM leaving DFW has not indeed gone into some analyst's report on AA; to be used in the next round of disgorged data expressing more of the reasons to purchase this stock. (And subsequently drive it even higher)

Message to DFW: Be careful of what you wish for. Remember, this is the airline business, easy come, easy go...plus please, spare us the b.s. that what is good for DFW, is good for North Texas.....no it's not. What is good for DFW is good for AA and that is it.
Delete this User
 
PVD757
Posts: 3292
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:24 am

in accordance with the Wright Amendment and since Mexico borders Texas, maybe they can go to DAL instead. haha
 
MYRIJET
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:02 am

RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting DeltaFFinDFW (Reply 8):
I'm sure that DFW and AA will blame the pullout on the Wright Amendment uncertainty

What's Wright Amendment uncertainty?, I know is something involving Love Field Airport can someone give me more light about the issue.Because DAL could be an alternate to serve Dallas from Mexico
 
PVD757
Posts: 3292
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:25 am

...Oh wait, then AA would have to shift all Mexico flights to Love field and drop service to Vancouver!
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 26514
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting MYRIJET (Reply 37):
Because DAL could be an alternate to serve Dallas from Mexico

No, it can't. DAL can't have flights to Mexico under the Wright Ammendement, unless they were on planes that seat 56 or less. And then there is the issue of customs/immigration. I have no idea for certain, but I don't think DAL has customs facilties, or maybe they do?
a.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 39):
I don't think DAL has customs facilties, or maybe they do?

DAL is a customs rights airport; but in line with the likes of LGA/HOU/DCA/etc, it does not have internal facilities sufficient to process hundreds of arriving scheduled int'l pax concurrently.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
DTWorBust
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of

Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 15):
The Dallas/Ft. Worth metro area is about 5 and a half million people, nowhere near the 8 million that you suggested. It's a much smaller O&D market than MIA/FLL and is also a smaller O&D market than ATL, both domestically and internationally. Though DFW does warrant lots of traffic, about 27 million O&D passengers a year, it's not the international city that Houston is, just 400 miles away. Most international airlines tend to use IAH instead of DFW, and due to DL's closing of their DFW hub last year, it isn't surprising that AM is ending service. And in terms of hub domination, I think DL's ATL takes the cake for the largest O&D market controlled by one carrier. Don't forget WN also carries a number of people in the D/FW area.

I agree with this, tons of airlines are downsizing right now, and cutting routes all over the country, you can't just blame every change at DFW on the Wright Amendment. And, to the point that DFW is overexpanded, in other Wright threads some assert that based on future population projections there will be enough passenger traffic for DFW and "another" airport to run at full capacity. I think this is just a business decision in an economic cycle that will eventually come full circle. : )

[Edited 2006-01-05 22:43:28]
"There's no traffic jam on the extra mile." - My Mom
 
travelin man
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:56 am

It's a little difficult for DFW to sit there and say "look, we're a great airport to do business at" when you have airlines dropping DFW left and right. It may just be for macro-economic reasons, but it looks really bad competition-wise.
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:31 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 34):
Well, not exactly. It was the entire State of Texas that took 300,000 New Orleans area "refugees". Houston did get the most, at something like 120,000, followed by the DFW Metroplex with about 100,000. Lubbock and Aberline also got several thousand. As did San Antonio. Interesting that Austin got none.

Not to nitpick and go to off topic, but Houston/Harris County BY THEMSELVES took over 250,000~ by conservative estimates. I can send you the various media and city reports if you like. Over 125,000 are still in Houston, and FEMA and the city are paying for many of them. PM me if you want all the stats.

Good point about the Mexicans shopping in Houston, San Antonio, and San Marcos. All three have sales tax rebate centres specifically for foreign, mainly wealthy Mexican shoppers, but I digress.

bummer for DFW, but AA will cover, most likely at a higher cost.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
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legend500
Posts: 172
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:18 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
The US govenrment no longer uses CMSAs, and the Dallas 5.58M number from 2003 does indeed include Ft. Worth.

According to a newly updated website, a link to which is previously provided, this is not the case. Additionally, the US government has not issued any new numbers since 2000, as census is taken every ten years. The 2000 numbers on the Excel provided clearly split the two PMSA's. The 6-million-number is generally accepted; judging from new home starts, loan applications, traffic, survey and city services information.

And the government no longer uses Combined Metropolitan Statistical Areas, true. It now uses the Combined Statistical Area. Difference? 12 letters.

Quote:
Pursuant to 44 U.S.C. 3504(e)(3) and 31 U.S.C. 1104(d) and Executive Order No. 10253 (June 11, 1951), the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) defines Metropolitan Statistical Areas, Micropolitan Statistical Areas, Combined Statistical Areas, and New England City and Town Areas for use in Federal statistical activities.



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 34):
Yeah, we can trust everything the UN says and does........ Maybe Texas can qualify for the oil for food program since their cities are only #6 and #9 on this list, not in the top 5. Does that qulify Texas as a third world nation?

 checkmark  But actually, we have to have an Arabic sounding name to qualify. That and not be a capitalist economy.  Silly

And use that inefficient corrupt hellhole as an example for streamlined governmental statistics?  rotfl 

Quoting Stirling (Reply 35):
This is not an argument of which city is more important, or bigger, etc..; Miami, NYC, Dallas, Houston, discussing that is a masterful pursuit of futility that has no bearing whatsoever on why AM discontinued service.

Entirely true. Bravo.

Quoting DTWorBust (Reply 41):
I think this is just a business decision in an economic cycle that will eventually come full circle. : )

Again, bravo. Trust me, things probably looked a lot worse for DFW when BN shut down completely and took a massive par of the airport's traffic with it.

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 43):
Not to nitpick and go to off topic, but Houston/Harris County BY THEMSELVES took over 250,000~ by conservative estimates. I can send you the various media and city reports if you like. Over 125,000 are still in Houston, and FEMA and the city are paying for many of them. PM me if you want all the stats.

About 125,000 does ring true... considering there were around 1 million refugees in total, and about 40%-50% cannot or do not wish to return. Note, however, that the low-income people were the ones shipped and put up in Houston. Most that made it out to Dallas and San Antonio went back towards Houston after a few months. The 100,000 (absolute maximum) that Dallas and San Antonio will keep are quite likely higher income folks who will probably be somewhat under-reported as they will not receive or do not need FEMA emergency funds.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 15):
Though DFW does warrant lots of traffic, about 27 million O&D passengers a year, it's not the international city that Houston is, just 400 miles away.



Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 43):
Good point about the Mexicans shopping in Houston, San Antonio, and San Marcos. All three have sales tax rebate centres specifically for foreign, mainly wealthy Mexican shoppers, but I digress.

Good point, but somewhat off. The DFW rebate centers in Dallas are at Northpark and the Federal Reserve Bank. Which brings up another issue:

Airline service from one city to another is not indicative of a high-income visitor base. In fact, it's quite the opposite. The "big" people visiting Dallas are not tourists and businessmen coming in part 121 planes looking to book a good seat in coach, business or even first. Mexicana and Aeromexico had good loads in first, but most of the planes were just below break-even. Most of the major visitors here come on their own planes, and for reasons very few cities can match. (As evidenced by having two of the busiest GA-International airports in the nation (ADS,FTW) and one airport (DAL) that commonly receives 747 "bizjets")

An example is in order, though more are available.

They come to do business in billions of dollars, either trading with the Federal Reserve Bank (Houston has no reserve bank) or to quite literally pick up their money (those dollar bills in you pocket were printed in Ft. Worth) when coordinating reserve stocks with the other worldwide Reserve Banks in Tokyo, Washington, London, Frankfurt, Hong Kong....etc. And they store it here, too.
 
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drerx7
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:51 pm

Also don't forget about the tens of thousand or so Rita evacuees from the Beaumont/Port Arthur/Orange/Lake Charles area. Or is BPT/PAT considered part of Houston MSA?
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
cjpark
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:43 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 35):
Message to DFW: Be careful of what you wish for. Remember, this is the airline business, easy come, easy go...plus please, spare us the b.s. that what is good for DFW, is good for North Texas.....no it's not. What is good for DFW is good for AA and that is it.

Once again we have a person from another state telling us what is good for North Texas and once again that person has missed the mark completely.

Keeping DFW healthy is good for North Texas.
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
DTWorBust
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 46):
Keeping DFW healthy is good for North Texas

I agree, airports and communities are intriciately linked through funding, bonds, etc. I don't know specifics with DFW, but I do know that a floundering airport can be bad news for a community. Hopefully DFW can stay strong for the citizens like CjPark says.  Smile
"There's no traffic jam on the extra mile." - My Mom
 
ssides
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:15 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 15):
is also a smaller O&D market than ATL, both domestically and internationally.

That is not true. The population of the DFW area is greater than Atlanta's by over 1 million.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
BGOODAM
Posts: 127
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RE: AeroMexico Joins Mexicana; Also Pulling Out Of DFW

Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:20 am

Word is AM will return later this year, service done only with the 737-700.

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