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AT
Topic Author
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"Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:47 am

Of late I have increasingly noticed announcements on airlines to use only lavatories in your "ticketed cabin" (the underlying subtext being- economy pax, don't use the F toilets!) This seems to be fairly recent- is it because most airlines have eliminated the curtains between cabins?

Also, doesn't this policy prevent optimal usage of the Lavs? aircraft space is severely limited- wouldn't it be more efficient, especially on smaller aircraft to have a common set of Lavs? Usually there is a cue for the toilets at the back of the plane while the ones up front are being unused, and removal of such restrictions would lead to better use.

Of course there is the counterarguments (1) that F class passengers pay more and are entitled to more services- including an exclusive lavatory and (2) they do not want too many people accumulating near flightdeck, so I am not necessarily advocating the policy of sharing Lavs either, but what do you all think is the most optimal policy?
 
jaysit
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting AT (Thread starter):
Of late I have increasingly noticed announcements on airlines to use only lavatories in your "ticketed cabin" (the underlying subtext being- economy pax, don't use the F toilets!) This seems to be fairly recent- is it because most airlines have eliminated the curtains between cabins?

Yes.
Apparently, the absence of the curtains is supposed to make us all safer because it will ostensibly allow some batty FA near Seat 1A to prevent someone in Seat 40K from blowing up the plane. Hello?
The stupidity of the FAA/DOT/Homeland Security continues to baffle me.
The absence of the curtains is an embarassment for everyone - premium pax as well as Y class pax.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Sabena332
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:29 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 1):
The absence of the curtains is an embarassment for everyone - premium pax as well as Y class pax.

I thought exactly the same when I saw a cabin shot of an UA transatlantic flight here on A.net a few days ago.

It must suck to sit in Eco and see how great the service in Biz is, the other way around must it suck to sit in Biz while the first 4 rows of Eco are watching you eating because your meal is looking better than theirs.

The use of curtains is actually an important part to make differences between the single travel classes. The guy(s) who decided to ban them either has never flown in his life, or must be a complete retard. I guess the latter.

Patrick
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LAXintl
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:31 am

Its a TSA directive. Basically meant to reduce cabin traffic and people walking up and down the length of the aircraft, and helps maintain some sterility from the cockpit.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
flyf15
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:43 am

Also, whether you like it or not, first class passengers got there somehow. Either by paying more, using miles to upgrade, etc. They purchases all that comes along with being in first class. One of these perks is a lavoratory that rarely has any sort of line.

Coach passengers on the hand, just get lavoratory usage. Thats it. And thats what they paid for.



I'm not trying to sound like a snotty first class passenger... 95% of my flights are in coach. It is just how it is. They paid more, they get better service.
 
DL787932ER
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:48 am

I don't know what if any are the safety aspects. If I were in first/business, I wouldn't mind it too much on short flights if there's a line in the back, although when I'm in coach I won't go up to the front because it seems rude. On the other hand, on long flights, especially overnight flights, the F/J pax paid a lot to get a big seat with lots of recline so they can relax, work, or sleep. A ton of economy pax tromping through those cabins all night seems like it would be pretty disturbing, and on those flights I would hope that rule would be enforced.
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
wdleiser
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:48 am

Flew C class from Frankfurt to Houston on new years day, 3 people in biz class, ... later on Houstons Mayor moved back into the large LH section of biz class with us totalling in at 5 people. The people in that small Eco section kept using our toilet, I was doing my best to use every seat I could in biz just for the hell of it. Finally while I was sleeping some asshole hit my chair. I woke up after 8 hours sleep. Tripped him on the way back. Then the FA looked at me and said very sternly, DO NOT USE THE LAVS OUT OF YOUR CABIN. She smiled at me. It angers me alot actually when eco passengers use C or F lavs. It is an annoyance that I dont want for my 5 grand spent.
 
lincoln
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:02 am

Ok, my original post seems to have flown off into the hinterlands, but I won't worry about it since everyone else is pretty much saying the same thigns I was  Smile

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 2):
It must suck to sit in Eco and see how great the service in Biz is, the other way around must it suck to sit in Biz while the first 4 rows of Eco are watching you eating because your meal is looking better than theirs.

CO has brought back translucent curtains (at least on their 738/739 fleets) -- does a decent job of sending the message and providing the folks in first with some privacy.

On my first flight in First (a NW DC-10-40, probably 1999 or 2000) there was a gentleman in the first class lav who was taking forever. The FA noticed that I was looking impatient and told me that it would be OK to use the lav in coach if I prefered. As soon as I popped my head through the (solid) curtain and left the tranquility of first, it was like stepping into a 3rd world country. I may be exagerating slightly, but many of the people looked like they were ready to die, there were kids running up and down the asiles, a few people eating meals as if they hadn't eaten in years. The change was quite dramatic. I "took care of business" and was back in first as quickly as possible. After that, I never again questioned why someone would pay considerably more to get to the same destination at the same time.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
LAX2IADandORD
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:16 am

I was caught in a similar dilemma flying a three class 767 from ORD to LAX in C class. I was in the rear of C where it meets with Y. I typically fly F class but did not as I was travelling with a companion. So there I was in C class (plenty fine for a 4 hour hop to LAX) but stuck in the middle of F and Y. Y folks were in line for the "C" lavs which because they were behind the galley that separates "C" and "Y", felt like they belonged more to "Y" class. And, being the good flyer that I am I didn't want to break through to first to use their lavs and to honor the "system" that AT was asking about to begin with. Odd situation to be in to be annoyed by "Y" class folks who were specifically told to use the restrooms in the rear of the aircraft but didn't myself want to break the rule by storming into "F". Anyhow, I waited my turn, but was a little miffed.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 1):
The absence of the curtains is an embarassment for everyone - premium pax as well as Y class pax.

I'm sensing a push for clear breakaway plexiglass sliding doors in the future, not unlike some class dividers I've seen on CRJ-700/900's demonstrators above seat level with a nice etched company logo.
 
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freakydeaky
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 7):
On my first flight in First (a NW DC-10-40, probably 1999 or 2000) there was a gentleman in the first class lav who was taking forever. The FA noticed that I was looking impatient and told me that it would be OK to use the lav in coach if I prefered. As soon as I popped my head through the (solid) curtain and left the tranquility of first, it was like stepping into a 3rd world country. I may be exagerating slightly, but many of the people looked like they were ready to die, there were kids running up and down the asiles, a few people eating meals as if they hadn't eaten in years. The change was quite dramatic. I "took care of business" and was back in first as quickly as possible. After that, I never again questioned why someone would pay considerably more to get to the same destination at the same time.

That's funny! That's exactly how I feel when I'm jammed up like that in the back. If I had any sort of money stash - I'd go first class all the time and love every minute of it.
"Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could."
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
Its a TSA directive. Basically meant to reduce cabin traffic and people walking up and down the length of the aircraft, and helps maintain some sterility from the cockpit.

they never thought about 1 cabin aircraft? Thats why I can ALWAYS choose where I do my business on the aircraft! Big grin
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
Mir
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting AT (Thread starter):
(2) they do not want too many people accumulating near flightdeck,

This is a big part of the reason why.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 7):
CO has brought back translucent curtains (at least on their 738/739 fleets)

I know it's on their 772s, and probably on the rest of the fleet as well.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
lincoln
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 9):
I'm sensing a push for clear breakaway plexiglass sliding doors in the future, not unlike some class dividers I've seen on CRJ-700/900's demonstrators above seat level with a nice etched company logo.

While something as you described would be nice (and likely solve many issues) with the way the regs are currently written, I don't think it would be legal on US-registered aircraft, as there is a FAR that (IIRC) specifically prohibits doors in the pax portion of an aircraft.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
cszulc
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:50 pm

I really don't see it as a safety precaution but as a courtesy to the first class cabins. First Class passengers don't need all the coach passengers running up to use the shorter-lined lav.

First Class Pax use the First Class Lav!
Coach Class Pax use the Coach Class Lav!

Continental and America West now have those mesh, see-through curtains dividing the cabins.
 
MarshalN
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:07 pm

Yeah, I just saw the see-through curtains this time on CO, and I like it. Too bad I was on the wrong side of things  Sad

Airlines in other countries have no problem using real curtains though. It sucks when your aviation authorities help undermine your service level when compared with other carriers. American airlines have enough problems competing as is.
 
AA7573E
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:10 pm

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 6):
She smiled at me. It angers me alot actually when eco passengers use C or F lavs. It is an annoyance that I dont want for my 5 grand spent.

Must be nice to drop 5K on a ticket when you are 16. You don't have to make things up to post here.
See you up front!
 
cvg2lga
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:50 pm

HEY! HEY! SOMEBODY MAKE A CALL TO THE DERBY!
This horse has been dead TOO LONG, somebody get us another to beat!
Would YA?!

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 7):
CO has brought back translucent curtains (at least on their 738/739 fleets) -- does a decent job of sending the message and providing the folks in first with some privacy.

you are stuck in a tube with no immediate exit, with X number of other people, no rooms-save for the wash closet, and no dividers or walls, far as i would say you cant turn yourself (or others) invisible. so just exactly how much privacy are you expecting?

Tchau
DA-
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
 
VHXLR8
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:47 pm

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 15):
Airlines in other countries have no problem using real curtains though. It sucks when your aviation authorities help undermine your service level when compared with other carriers. American airlines have enough problems competing as is.

While I am in full favour of curtains, it should be noted that it's not just USA that doesn't allow them anymore, Australia also does not allow the closing of all curtains anymore.
 
wdleiser
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:41 pm

Quoting AA7573E (Reply 16):
Must be nice to drop 5K on a ticket when you are 16. You don't have to make things up to post here.

Please make sure you know your facts buddy before you post something like that. For one, I am 17. Secondly I have a family member working at the airline  Wink .
 
FCYTravis
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:47 pm

The mesh curtains will be slowly phased in on all US Airways aircraft.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
vega
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:46 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 7):
On my first flight in First (a NW DC-10-40, probably 1999 or 2000) there was a gentleman in the first class lav who was taking forever. The FA noticed that I was looking impatient and told me that it would be OK to use the lav in coach if I prefered. As soon as I popped my head through the (solid) curtain and left the tranquility of first, it was like stepping into a 3rd world country. I may be exagerating slightly, but many of the people looked like they were ready to die, there were kids running up and down the asiles, a few people eating meals as if they hadn't eaten in years.

Well I guess you've never been in First Class on a Friday afternoon when it was filled with a bunch of half drunken Marketing people returning from several days of selling.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
lincoln
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:36 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 21):
Well I guess you've never been in First Class on a Friday afternoon when it was filled with a bunch of half drunken Marketing people returning from several days of selling.

I can honestly say that no, I have not. Every time I've been in first (a grand total of three times, DTW-LAX, LAX-CLE, ONT-IAH) everone has been almost sedated and it's been a very enjoyable experience. I suppose a bunch of half-drunken marketing folks could take away from that.
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
navega
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:03 am

Yeah for Continental and America West who have the brilliant sense to use mesh curtains and to stop coach passengers from using the First Class one.

On airlines with no curtains, of which I fly quiet a bit, they do not enforce
anything. Passengers sitting in the first 7 or 8 rows now think that the front
lavatory is for their use.

At one time the crews did not allow passengers to use the front lavatories but
nowadays, nobody cares.
 
boeingguy1
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:31 am

Quoting AT (Thread starter):
Of late I have increasingly noticed announcements on airlines to use only lavatories in your "ticketed cabin" (the underlying subtext being- economy pax, don't use the F toilets!) This seems to be fairly recent- is it because most airlines have eliminated the curtains between cabins?

A similar issue happened to me when I was flying from JFK-FCO with a connection in FRA... on the way to FCO (in a 735), the lovely LH flight attendant told me to use the lavatory in the back. I kindly told her that there was a food cart in the way and I needed to go. She let me through... I think flight attendants will let you use the first lavatory if the only other option is them cleaning up something other than sandwich wrappers....  Smile
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RAMPRAT980
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting NAVEGA (Reply 23):
At one time the crews did not allow passengers to use the front lavatories but
nowadays, nobody cares.

The F/A's are getting paid all that money. They can politely speak to the pax and inform him/her that 1st class toilet's are for 1st class passengers.

On international flights I have noticed that no one from coach uses the 1st class toilet(s). Maybe because of the extra toilets in coach. But when I fly on a 737 I often ask myself why have a curtain.
With gun control there can be no democracy.. With gun control there can be no Freedom
 
Row1Aisle
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:17 am

As somebody who is in First about 90% of the time as holder of multiple frequent flyer elite cards, I appreciate the curtains. Almost all of my travel lately is on US Airways and the mesh curtain do help. I earned the seat up front through lots of coach travel, and it comes with some benefits. Not having to queue up in the aisle for a lavatory is one of them. I've had a minor altercation with a passenger from coach once. They were standing on the other side of the curtain waiting for the front lavatory (after the beverage service, so no cart in the aisle). I didn't bother looking back there, and stepped up and into the lavatory as soon as it came unoccupied. When I came out, they asked why I cut in line. I stated I was only using the lavatory in my ticketed cabin, per flight attendant announcements.

I don't see what the problem is for people to use the lavatory for their own cabin. When I'm in coach, I use the coach lavatory. Seems simple enough.
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:39 am

DL has been slowly installing the mesh curtains as they refurb their planes with the new interior. The only problem is, they rarely enforce the rule of switching cabins. In all of the other Delta planes, they have the ropes they put up, but it's amazing how the FA's usually won't put it up, or if they do, people move it aside to head up front.

I also fly in F class 90% of the time, and I think it really detracts from the experience to have people up and down the isles when they really don't need to be.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
Leezyjet
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RE: "Using Lavatories In Your Own Cabin"

Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:10 am

I flew in J on the lower deck of a B744 for the first time last month, normally I've been on the Upper Deck. I had never really thought about it before, but there are only 2 toilets for 34 J class pax on the lower deck, whilst the Upper Deck has 3 toilets for 30 pax !!!.

I know that on the Upper Deck, they technically need a toilet for the f/deck crew to use so they don't have to queue, but it did seem a bit silly that there are less toliets in A and B zone on the lower deck for more pax. This did cause quite a bit of a queue which considering the toilets are next to the galley area, meant there wasn't much space for people to stand around and wait.

The premium seats on the lower deck do not have any toliets at all, it's a case of going to the ones in the middle of Y, or as I have done, just run up the stairs and use one up there.

When I have sat in J on the A343 in B zone, people from W often walk through to use the toilets just by door 2 which is quite annoying especially when they have no manners and just bash their way past whilst you are trying to sleep.

One of the by-products of having AVOD though has been to almost eliminate queues at the toliets on those a/c that have it, as you can just pause your film and go any time, where as on a/c that don't have it - large queues often build up at the end of a film.

 Smile
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