What are the plans for terminal C at RDU? Are they totally tearing it down and rebuilding, or just adding on? Are they planning on putting all airlines at this terminal or expecting an increase in air traffic?

They already razed the north side. Once that half is completed, they will raze the south half and rebuild that. I think the plan is to have all airlines in that building.

PJ

The South side has been torn down. It is set to begin rebuilding during this quater. After completion of the south side, the north side will be renovated but not torn down. A total of 28 gates will be added included 3 international gates.. When Terminal C (to be renamed Terminal 2) is complete, the following airlines will move to the Legacy terminal Terminal 2: Delta, American, Continental, Northwest, Air Canada.

*** US Airways is supposed to move to Terminal 2 also, but I think that when the time comes, they will remain in the LCC terminal Terminal 1.****

When those airlines move to Terminal 2, Terminal 1 will get a complete renovation and will become the LCC terminal. AirTran, Southwest (and probably US Airways and JetBlue) will occupy the 26 gates at Terminal 1. The security area will be merged into 6-8 security lanes. Baggage claim will be merged into one area. The decor, carpet, and gate areas will all be renovated.

That's about all I can remember right now.

***Added Information****

If anyone up here has any more information or pics of the construction, please post them.. I would love to see what's going on since I moved to the DC Metro area. I was at RDU last weekend and saw a Champion 727 and Sky1 727 onsite for a hockey game, I'm sure.

[Edited 2006-01-06 01:49:07]

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 2): The South side has been torn down. It is set to begin rebuilding during this quater. After completion of the south side, the north side will be renovated but not torn down. A total of 28 gates will be added included 3 international gates.. When Terminal C (to be renamed Terminal 2) is complete, the following airlines will move to the Legacy terminal Terminal 2: Delta, American, Continental, Northwest, Air Canada.

If my directional sense is correct, I think this might be backwards with the north side being the first down and replaced. UA express and American still remain in the untouched south end right now, the terminal has a large steel wall spliting the two sides in half.

While I was at AirTran at RDU, we moved to a new counter where the airport was making upgrades for it. I was told that the upgrades were to last about 8 years until we moved over to the other side. That was over a year ago now, so that may be a sign that Terminal A may be vacated altogether within that time, pending RDU actually getting this project done on time!

Ahh.. okay.. how about we do it this way..

The Midway End has been knocked down. The American End is still up and running. So far the project is on time. Like I said, I was there last week and it looks like they are ready to start construction. Seems to be following the timeline pretty well to be completed by 2008 and 2009.

Speaking of AirTran, they have a pretty decent size counter and quite a few kiosks at RDU for only 5 daily flights to ATL. I just don't get why they don't at least expand to one more city. There are so many options they have where they could do a nonserved city (MCI, BUF, LAX, DEN, RSW) or even a monopolized city-pair (DFW, MSP, DTW). I ponder this.. Hmmmm..

Terminal C runs parallel to the runway, so technically the NNE side of the Terminal is Gone. There is no right turn to be made when entering the terminal after security.
They have laid in a new Taxiway at the North end of the C tarmac, and shifted the road going to Gen Aviation back towards the center a bit, allowing for more construction traffic to enter.
It appears that they are ready to start building the new half of the terminal. The new tarmac looks to be in place, and the area where the terminal should go just has dirt mounds now.
Hopefully at the end of 2007 or beginning of 2008 there will be a new terminal in operation, and the work on the south end will begin. Go RDU.

For the RDU and general audience out there...

Which city-pair does RDU need and which city-pair do you think RDU will get in the next 12 months?

Rather than blog up other threads, I thought I would ask in the RDU thread.

Personally, I would love to see PVD, LAX, MSY, DEN, and either twice weekly NAS or MBJ. I would also love to see an airline enter to provide some of these routes rather than the current or obvious who was supposed to be here in the past 2 years and haven't arrived yet. Something like a Maxjet RDU-LAX, a Aeromexico RDU-MEX, or Sun Country RDU-DEN.. something a little different.. that would be cool..

Any other thoughts/ideas? Any inside rumors or anything?

I could go to faremeasure and point out cities, but I am convinced the data there is over 2 years old.

I haven't seen the statistics change in over a year for RDU.
But here is what RDU needs.

RDU-SFO/SJC All the technology companies, Cisco, Nortel, Computer Associates, and many smaller entities have offices in both locations.
The viability of this route is assured, and if AA wasn't so busy trying to boost it's DFW service, this would already be in operation.
I know in the past it was discontinued for 2001, but at this point the route is arguably sustainable.

RDU-SEA
Another strong technology issue. Microsoft. Many of the companies in RTP do business with Microsoft and other Seattle Companies. Microsoft is the driving reason, but with increased tech companies and competition from Red Hat, I am amazed Microsoft hasn't demanded this be opened from their end.

RDU-LAX Obviously LA has many tourism and business concerns for Raleigh travelers, and I am sure that a once or twice a day service is necessary for market share by a company that wants it.

RDU-DEN With Ski season seemingly out of the picture this year, one reason is gone, however with Southwest now operating out of Denver, Frontier and Unitied need to examine their East Coast cities and who needs connecting service through Denver to the west. With Delta offering SLC , American offering DFW, and now US with Phoenix and LAS, they need to come up with an offering to keep west coast intensive passengers with them. United should be more interested in opening this route than any other airline, but the murkiness of their association with US airways makes this questionable.

RDU-MSY
Well it worked while New Orleans was a Pre Katrina city, however until New Orleans can support a full Mardi Gras and Conventions again this is a moot point.

The above are my choices. I don't see any offerings to the carribean with the way the US Airways/American Airlines market is currently set up

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 4): While I was at AirTran at RDU, we moved to a new counter where the airport was making upgrades for it. I was told that the upgrades were to last about 8 years until we moved over to the other side. That was over a year ago now, so that may be a sign that Terminal A may be vacated altogether within that time, pending RDU actually getting this project done on time!

That's correct. The north side of the terminal is what is currently under construction.

When WN started service to RDU the old Terminal B building (connected to A), which had been vacant for years, was renovated and WN moved in there and is now just a wing of A (hence why RDU only has terminals A&C). This is where AirTran is currently (even though their gates are way down in the middle of A). There were grandiose plans to renovate A before the tech bubble collapse, leading to the construction of the "Terminal A Extension" where CO and NW operate out of, but most of those were scaled back after 9/11 and the Midway liquidation.

There was a time when Terminal A was nice and logically laid out and it really was a pretty decent place to fly out of, but now with the new security checkpoints, building extensions, oddly located checkin counters, it can be a huge pain.

-uniuniunium
(who had to walk all the way from the CO gates to the relocated baggage claim escalator on a sprained ankle a few weeks ago)

I think that RDU-DEN will return this year.

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 7): RDU-SEA Another strong technology issue. Microsoft. Many of the companies in RTP do business with Microsoft and other Seattle Companies. Microsoft is the driving reason, but with increased tech companies and competition from Red Hat, I am amazed Microsoft hasn't demanded this be opened from their end.

If RDU-SEA happens...I don't think it will be due to Microsoft...they have their largest office outside of Redmond in Charlotte...just down the road from the Triangle. There is already a non-stop CLT-SEA.

If the people in the Triangle want to see a Microsoft person they can just drive down 85, take Amtrak, or fly to CLT.

Citiguy,
Comparing the Charlotte campus in terms of sales and integration and R&D to Seattle isn't even a battle. Even Durham has a Microsoft office.
Charlotte is mostly tech support. Nothing like what is in redmond. Also to split hairs. Intel is in Seattle as well.

Cassie, I wasn't comparing Seattle and Charlotte...so don't even go there. I was merely making a statement of fact about the Charlotte Microsoft office which has thousands of employees and lots of them have made the nonstop CLT-SEA trek. The Microsoft office you mention in Durham only has a few dozen employees and is not worth mentioning with respect to an RDU-SEA flight.

Just to point something out and not trying to perpetuate this CLT/RDU fight.. but the numbers can't be wrong..

CLT-SEA 284 daily average pax
CLT-RDU 304 daily average pax

There must be more going to Seattle than those few dozen employees at Microsoft..

Just thought I would point that out..

Its not a fight. This is a discussion board, therefore we discuss. If all that people posted was "thats great" and "super duper" then nobody would come here.

And in all fairness ERJ you always leave out the price difference between CLT and RDU. The difference in fare is greater than the difference in O&D. If CLT had the same fares as RDU to Seattle then we would have greater O&D. The numbers bear that out.

BTW, thought I would post some "Real News" for this thread. The bids for construction of Terminal C have come in WAY over. So now the airport authority will spend the next few months deleting certain items to bring the bloated budget back in line with previous estimates.

CLT-SEA $415 with 2 non-stop flights averaging 284 daily pax
RDU-SEA $363 with 0 non-stop flights averaging 304 daily pax

There really is not a big different in prices.. an average of $50.. just like there is not a big difference in pax.. an average of 20..

and should US lower the fares, i still don't think u gonna see huge of a jump in the number of passengers.. so CLT is no better than RDU and RDU is no better than CLT.. they both serve statistically a similar popn of passengers.. CLT may be a bigger MSA, but tit-for-tat, they would both serve a similar number of people..

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 13): Its not a fight. This is a discussion board, therefore we discuss. If all that people posted was "thats great" and "super duper" then nobody would come here.

I totally disagree.. but there does always seem to be a pissing match between CLT and RDU for some reason.. for some reason, it seems that CLT would be better than RDU if it weren't for WN.. who only has 28 flights at RDU.. but they have put the Midas touch on RDU and made it 1000x more desirable than other airports in the area.. go figure.. but I digress.. not trying to start nothing..
'

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 14): The bids for construction of Terminal C have come in WAY over. So now the airport authority will spend the next few months deleting certain items to bring the bloated budget back in line with previous estimates.

Wow! Do u have a knack for over emphasis or what. They bid they got did come in over the expected range of $225-250 Mil.. but not by much.. the bids ranged from $272-300. So yes, RDU is going to go back and see what they can redo in their plans.. but there will be no significant changes. The only change was a smaller upper roadway in front of Terminal C. No big deal. So its 2 lanes instead of 3. Big whoop. And the budget is not bloated at all. It was estimated the entire project would cost $350 Mil. Now the estimate is $400-450 Mil. But that is expected with higher fuel cost and higher cost of resources.

R U just trying to be as negative as u can b, or is that just an added perk? You r seriously trying to put as much bad aura around as possible. RDU will still get a 28 gate, state of the art new terminal, and still have plenty of money left over to create a state of the art new Terminal A. So just chill and simma down.

So for the SEA-RDU market, did you stop to think of all of the tech companies that do serious R&D in RTP that have to go to Seattle?
The markets for RDU amd CLT are roughly the same size.
RDU is growing faster, and has a bit more affluent population. More Colleges, and more people from outside the region that need to travel to visit or work with headquarters.
If CLT prices were a bit lower, I am sure they would attract more people , but for now RDU is the game since more people tend to travel out of the area.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 15): There really is not a big different in prices.. an average of $50.. just like there is not a big difference in pax.. an average of 20.. and should US lower the fares, i still don't think u gonna see huge of a jump in the number of passengers.. so CLT is no better than RDU and RDU is no better than CLT.. they both serve statistically a similar popn of passengers.. CLT may be a bigger MSA, but tit-for-tat, they would both serve a similar number of people..

I agree there is not much difference on the Seattle route...but the numbers don't lie and everything I stated is backed up by facts.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 15): I totally disagree.. but there does always seem to be a pissing match between CLT and RDU for some reason.. for some reason, it seems that CLT would be better than RDU if it weren't for WN.. who only has 28 flights at RDU.. but they have put the Midas touch on RDU and made it 1000x more desirable than other airports in the area.. go figure.. but I digress.. not trying to start nothing..

I don't think there is a pissing match...its just that some people around here are not very knowledgible about these markets. I have lived in both RDU and CLT and have enjoyed my time in both places. All I do is correct where I see fit when someone just blatently doesn't know what they are talking about.

RDU is a great airport if you want cheap flights but I think its far from the midas touch...maybe once the new Terminal C is complete it will have the midas touch. Time will tell.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 16): Wow! Do u have a knack for over emphasis or what. They bid they got did come in over the expected range of $225-250 Mil.. but not by much.. the bids ranged from $272-300. So yes, RDU is going to go back and see what they can redo in their plans.. but there will be no significant changes. The only change was a smaller upper roadway in front of Terminal C. No big deal. So its 2 lanes instead of 3. Big whoop. And the budget is not bloated at all. It was estimated the entire project would cost $350 Mil. Now the estimate is $400-450 Mil. But that is expected with higher fuel cost and higher cost of resources. R U just trying to be as negative as u can b, or is that just an added perk? You r seriously trying to put as much bad aura around as possible. RDU will still get a 28 gate, state of the art new terminal, and still have plenty of money left over to create a state of the art new Terminal A. So just chill and simma down.

To me $50M is a lot of money. You could build a really nice 5,000 space parking deck for that kind of money.

The changes will be significant, you listed a few examples of what they will have to delete. We won't know the full ramifications until a few months from now...but thankfully the general size and shape of the terminal will remain the same.

I am not being negative, I am being realisitic. I am not the one that made Terminal C over budget, I just merely passed along the news.

I guess to you $50M is just chump change. I wish I was that rich.

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 17): So for the SEA-RDU market, did you stop to think of all of the tech companies that do serious R&D in RTP that have to go to Seattle? The markets for RDU amd CLT are roughly the same size. RDU is growing faster, and has a bit more affluent population. More Colleges, and more people from outside the region that need to travel to visit or work with headquarters. If CLT prices were a bit lower, I am sure they would attract more people , but for now RDU is the game since more people tend to travel out of the area.

Yes Cassie, I am quite familiar with RTP. Guess what...I have worked in RTP. I have flown out of RDU, many times. I work for a company that is one of Microsoft's largest customers.
The RDU and CLT markets are not the same size. CLT is 40% larger. Go look up the stats at census.gov
The RDU market is growing faster than CLT but only a smigon faster. More colleges? Yes. More people from outside the region? No. Obviosly you have not spent much time in Eastern NC. There are more pigs than people.
Yes, RDU has a slightly higher O&D number, but Charlotte has been quickly closing the gap on it since our fares have come down. Once jetBlue and/or Southwest comes in, then our O&D will quickly surpass that of RDU.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 19): To me $50M is a lot of money. You could build a really nice 5,000 space parking deck for that kind of money.

In the whole scheme of things, $50 Mil seems like a lot but its not that much. And as you stated earlier, they are working on ways to cut some of that $50 Mil overage. So no big deal really.

Terminal C Bids Higher than Expected

Brantley says that any modifications made by RDU won't change the size or the shape of the building. Asked to provide examples of possible cuts, he says that RDU might elect not to extend a deck to an upper-level roadway in front of the terminal. Brantley also thinks that RDU can save money by using a different finish to protect the terminal's walls.

I would not consider losing a deck for a roadway or different finishes for a wall a significant changes. Like I said, they will be minor insignificant changes that the flying public wouldn't even notice. It's not like they are going to use wood instead of cement for construction.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 19): I am not the one that made Terminal C over budget, I just merely passed along the news.

Nope, u did not make it over budget. RDUAA did not make it over budget. Higher prices for building construction material and fuel products made it over budget. But not so overbudget that anything would have to be scraped. So, yes, u are passing it along. But u r passing it along in a manner that is trying to convey the entire project is in danger.. The bids for construction of Terminal C have come in WAY over. So now the airport authority will spend the next few months deleting certain items to bring the bloated budget back in line with previous estimates.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 19): I guess to you $50M is just chump change. I wish I was that rich.

lets see.. $50 Mil in comparison to the $1 Bil that RDU has at it's disposal for both Terminal projects.. yes, I would kinda consider that chump change.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 20): The RDU and CLT markets are not the same size. CLT is 40% larger. Go look up the stats at census.gov

per the Census MSA data for 2000..
CLT encachement area = 1,330,446
RDU encachement area = 1,223,564

Only looks like a 9% difference to me..

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 20): Obviosly you have not spent much time in Eastern NC. There are more pigs than people.

I was born and raised on the eastern part of North Carolina near New Bern. yes there are farms, but there are also enough people on the coast to support the flights out of EWN, PGV, FAY, and ILM. And just for ur information, pig farming is not that signficant in Eastern North Carolina. Check your facts before you sputter out nonsense.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 20): Yes, RDU has a slightly higher O&D number, but Charlotte has been quickly closing the gap on it since our fares have come down. Once jetBlue and/or Southwest comes in, then our O&D will quickly surpass that of RDU.

Oh yes, jetBlue and Southwest is the savior of every airport. But is CLT willing to lose its status of a hub of US to get jetBlue or Southwest? One better selling point that CLT has in which RDU does not have is the fact that they have NS flights to a helleva lot more places than RDU. And yet, the RTP area is gaining more international HQs, more US HQs, and more businesses moving into the area.

But back to the primary subject at thand...

I don't get why CLT vs RDU discussions keep coming up! It's like a broken record. The both are in the same state and in cities of roughly the same size, but that's all they have in common. It would be one thing to compare service and O&D if RDU was still an AA hub, but it's not anymore. I don't think RDU could fill 534 flights a day with O&D passengers either.

For CLT, I consider the load factors more important to determine if a flight is working or not. Adjusting times may be the only thing needed. By the way, perhaps higher load factors due to connecting passengers results in less availability for the cheaper fares for O&D passengers. Many flights out of CLT fill up extremely fast, so it's best to book ahead.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 21): But u r passing it along in a manner that is trying to convey the entire project is in danger.. The bids for construction of Terminal C have come in WAY over. So now the airport authority will spend the next few months deleting certain items to bring the bloated budget back in line with previous estimates.

I never said or implied that the entire project was in danger. In fact my comments state the exact opposite. Obviously you misinterpreted and construed my comments. I very much am looking forward to the new RDU Terminal C.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 21): lets see.. $50 Mil in comparison to the $1 Bil that RDU has at it's disposal for both Terminal projects.. yes, I would kinda consider that chump change.

This is news. RDU has $1B in the bank currently? If they are going to spend some $350M on Terminal C, are you saying they are going to spend $650M on the renovated Terminal A? That doesn't sound right. Please back up your comments with facts.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 21): per the Census MSA data for 2000.. CLT encachement area = 1,330,446 RDU encachement area = 1,223,564 Only looks like a 9% difference to me..

You are comparing the CLT MSA number with the RDU CSA number. The latest data from the Census is 2004 and those numbers are:

RDU= 1.5M CSA
CLT= 2.1M CSA
Do the math and you come up with a 40% difference.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 21): I was born and raised on the eastern part of North Carolina near New Bern. yes there are farms, but there are also enough people on the coast to support the flights out of EWN, PGV, FAY, and ILM. And just for ur information, pig farming is not that signficant in Eastern North Carolina. Check your facts before you sputter out nonsense.

New Bern is a nice town...I have family that live there.
However the facts are that there are literally Millions of pigs being raised in Eastern North Carolina. The largest farms are operated by Smithfield and Wendell Farms. In just Eastern NC alone there are at least 7.5M pigs. Since you are from Eastern NC I would expect you to know that. Either you are just plain dumb or you live in denial.
http://www.smithfieldfoods.com/Inves...atistics/StructureProductivity.pdf

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 21): Oh yes, jetBlue and Southwest is the savior of every airport. But is CLT willing to lose its status of a hub of US to get jetBlue or Southwest? One better selling point that CLT has in which RDU does not have is the fact that they have NS flights to a helleva lot more places than RDU. And yet, the RTP area is gaining more international HQs, more US HQs, and more businesses moving into the area.

CLT is quickly approaching RDU's O&D w/o jetBlue or Southwest and quite honestly with the recent price cuts by USAirways we might surpass RDU's O&D w/o either one of them. I do think that jetBlue will start service to CLT sometime in 2006. Southwest I am not so sure about. CLT will not have to lose its status as a hub to get either of those airlines to come here. USAirways competes quite well with Southwest in PIT, PHX, LAS, and PHL and they can do the same in CLT.
RTP is not gaining more International HQ, US HQ, and more businesses moving to the area than CLT. The numbers don't lie. Mike Walden, an economist at NC State University in Raleigh states that Charlotte will continue to be the leader in the State of NC for employment, wage and retail sales growth in 2006.

Quoting RyeFly (Reply 22): I don't get why CLT vs RDU discussions keep coming up! It's like a broken record. The both are in the same state and in cities of roughly the same size, but that's all they have in common. It would be one thing to compare service and O&D if RDU was still an AA hub, but it's not anymore. I don't think RDU could fill 534 flights a day with O&D passengers either. For CLT, I consider the load factors more important to determine if a flight is working or not. Adjusting times may be the only thing needed. By the way, perhaps higher load factors due to connecting passengers results in less availability for the cheaper fares for O&D passengers. Many flights out of CLT fill up extremely fast, so it's best to book ahead.

I don't see it as RDU vs. CLT...I see it as educating people on the RDU and CLT markets that are misinformed or in denial of the facts.

One of my dreams would be if we could combine RDU and CLT into one market...WOW, that would be a powerhouse market rivalling Atlanta.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 23): You are comparing the CLT MSA number with the RDU CSA number. The latest data from the Census is 2004 and those numbers are: RDU= 1.5M CSA CLT= 2.1M CSA Do the math and you come up with a 40% difference.

Ok,
Let's do the math on the size of the areas.
CLT == 6493 Square miles
RDU ==4548 Square mile.

CLT area is about 40% larger  

So we might as well add in the , Pitt, Goldsboro, Wilson and Rocky Mount areas to the RDU one since they are going to use RDU. That would bring it closer. Add to that the Burlington traffic from the Alamnce area is mostly going to use RDU, and we wind up with pretty comparable areas for comparison.

My contention is that if both had equal prices both would have O&D within 5-10% of each other.

Raleigh has lot going for it currently as does Charlotte. Both are benefiting strongly from larger companies and people wanting to get the hell out of overpriced areas such as the Norteast and California.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 23): This is news. RDU has $1B in the bank currently? If they are going to spend some $350M on Terminal C, are you saying they are going to spend $650M on the renovated Terminal A? That doesn't sound right. Please back up your comments with facts.

I didn't say they had $1 Bil in the bank. I said they had $1 Bil at their disposal.. mostly in loans. And $650 is not for terminal A. Initially Terminal C was supposed to be a $500 Mil project. The remaining was to be used for the GAA building, Terminal A, and to lower the loan rates for the overall loans. Some of the money was already used to pay off some loans and to get lower interest rates.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 23): You are comparing the CLT MSA number with the RDU CSA number

The numbers I quoted, as when i stated it before, was from the 2000 MSA (not CSA) census. It CLT has grown by 800K in 4 years, then yes.. they have significantly grown more than the Raleigh-Cary and Durham MSAs.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 23): Since you are from Eastern NC I would expect you to know that. Either you are just plain dumb or you live in denial.

I am from Eastern NC. And it seems that I would not know that. So u schooled me on something congratulations. But this will be the ABSOLUTE last time you call me dumb. And on THAT I am 100% confident.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 23): CLT is quickly approaching RDU's O&D w/o jetBlue or Southwest and quite honestly with the recent price cuts by USAirways we might surpass RDU's O&D w/o either one of them.

I never said RDU was out boarding CLT. I stated that it is not as significant as you portray it to be. But that cannot really be determined without a seperation of the O&D vs the connecting traffic. However, if you have THOSE figures available, i would love to see them.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 23): RTP is not gaining more International HQ, US HQ, and more businesses moving to the area than CLT.

Again, you are trying to make me say something I did not say. I said the RTP area is gaining more international HQs, more US HQs, and more businesses moving into the area.. I did not say more than CLT.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 23): Mike Walden, an economist at NC State University

Hahahaha.. enough said.. Says the UNC graduate.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 24): I don't see it as RDU vs. CLT

Wow.. funny how other people see it as that way.. why must it always be that u are trying to build up CLT by putting down RDU? both are great airports.. I flying through CLT as much as I like flying out of RDU.. but u seem to have the idea that u can't make CLT sound grand without first putting down and degrading RDU.. and yes, you do it all the time.

I've lost track. Is it good to have a lot of pigs, or bad? And how does the pig thing impact whether or not RDU gets a "new renovated" terminal...?

And which town had the bigger Microsoft branch office--that was important for a while too.

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 25): Ok, Let's do the math on the size of the areas. CLT == 6493 Square miles RDU ==4548 Square mile. CLT area is about 40% larger So we might as well add in the , Pitt, Goldsboro, Wilson and Rocky Mount areas to the RDU one since they are going to use RDU. That would bring it closer. Add to that the Burlington traffic from the Alamnce area is mostly going to use RDU, and we wind up with pretty comparable areas for comparison. My contention is that if both had equal prices both would have O&D within 5-10% of each other.

You didn't really specify what areas you were comparing so lets see if I can help you out with some of your numbers.
CLT CSA Land Area = 6590 sq mi
RDU CSA Land Area = 5098 sq mi
Doing the math the CLT CSA land area is 29% larger than the RDU CSA Land Area.

So the CLT CSA has 40% more people but only 29% more land. So not only is the CLT area more populous, it has a higher population density.

I don't think it makes sense to add in Pitt County to the RDU numbers as they already have their own airport with commercial service.
Adding Wayne, Nash, and Wilson counties to the RDU area is a real strech...but if you are going to do that, then to be fair you would have to add in Catawba Co for the CLT numbers. In any case the CLT area is significantly more populated than the RDU area no matter how you look at it.

I look forward to the day when the air fares at CLT and RDU are the same and proving all you people wrong. The numbers don't lie.

Quoting Maury (Reply 27): I've lost track. Is it good to have a lot of pigs, or bad? And how does the pig thing impact whether or not RDU gets a "new renovated" terminal...? And which town had the bigger Microsoft branch office--that was important for a while too.

LOL,

Well RDU wins out on the Pigs which I'm sure all that processed pork helps out on their Cargo numbers.

And CLT wins out on Microsoft....2000 in CLT employees versus 23 in RDU.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 26): Wow.. funny how other people see it as that way.. why must it always be that u are trying to build up CLT by putting down RDU? both are great airports.. I flying through CLT as much as I like flying out of RDU.. but u seem to have the idea that u can't make CLT sound grand without first putting down and degrading RDU.. and yes, you do it all the time.

The only thing I have ever said bad about RDU is in relation to Terminal A...which really needs to be torn down in my opinion. Otherwise everything else has been factually based and not put in a "Good" or "Bad" context. I realize some of the facts that I bring up about RDU are ones that you may not like...but gurl, its reality, deal with it.

Please find examples where I have put down RDU at the expense of CLT and I will be glad to discuss it.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 30): but gurl, its reality, deal with it.

Strike 2

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 30): Please find examples where I have put down RDU at the expense of CLT and I will be glad to discuss it.

This part of the discussion has gone way out of hand. Time to drop it... I was hoping to get some other thoughts out there for potential destinations/airlines at RDU.. and perhaps more updated pictures of the Terminal C development.. anyone? anyone?

Wow, this is worse than the battle of EWR vs JFK.  

PJ

How many pigs ya'll got up in the Tri State area? LOL.

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 32): Wow, this is worse than the battle of EWR vs JFK. Smile

I don't get it either.. both equally good airports.. go figure..

How goes Eos and Maxjet at JFK, btw?

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 28): You didn't really specify what areas you were comparing so lets see if I can help you out with some of your numbers. CLT CSA Land Area = 6590 sq mi RDU CSA Land Area = 5098 sq mi Doing the math the CLT CSA land area is 29% larger than the RDU CSA Land Area.

I popped my data off the same damn report that gave you your 2.1 millon to 1.5 million number. so take the numbers back to 40%.

If Charlotte can include Statesville and Salisbury in their Data, I can include out to burlington and Rocky mount in mine.
I included Pitt, since it is a 1.5 hour ride all highway, no light from Greenville into RDU, and service from Pitt sucks.

MSA from Wik

The latest pics of Terminal C I have found are from June 2005.

http://www.rdu.com/airportdev/termc-photos.htm

For the sake of not taking this thread into airline Hell.. can we spin off the CLT-RDU battle into it's own thread, give CLT it's own thread so it can be praised there, and get back to the initial point of this one..

Quoting Airlinebuff77 (Thread starter): What are the plans for terminal C at RDU? Are they totally tearing it down and rebuilding, or just adding on? Are they planning on putting all airlines at this terminal or expecting an increase in air traffic?

to answer the questions to the best of my ability..

The NORTH side of Terminal C has been torn down. The South side will just be renovated. 2 new gates will be added for a total of 28, but 3 of these gates will be international gates in anticipation of future routes. All 28 gates will have jetways that can accommodate an aircraft from the E35 to the 747. Terminal C (or Terminal 2 after renovation) will be the Legacy Airline Terminal containing American, Air Canada, Continental, Delta, Northwest, United Express, and possibly USAirways (but they will probably be moved to the Low Cost Carrier Terminal).

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 36): The latest pics of Terminal C I have found are from June 2005

All of that is gone now. They are pretty much laying in the foundations at this point, or they are soon to start.

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 35): I popped my data off the same damn report that gave you your 2.1 millon to 1.5 million number. so take the numbers back to 40%. If Charlotte can include Statesville and Salisbury in their Data, I can include out to burlington and Rocky mount in mine. I included Pitt, since it is a 1.5 hour ride all highway, no light from Greenville into RDU, and service from Pitt sucks. MSA from Wik

Lawd have mercy Cassie. It seems that you had a calcuation error. Let me walk you through it.

Charlotte CSA - 6590 sq mi
Mecklenburg 546 sq mi
Gaston 364 sq mi
Lincoln 307 sq mi
Cabaruss 365 sq mi
Rowan 524 sq mi
Stanly 404 sq mi
Cleveland 469 sq mi
Iredell 597 sq mi
Anson 537 sq mi
Union 640 sq mi
York 696 sq mi
Chester 586 sq mi
Lancaster 555 sq mi

Raleigh CSA - 5098 sq mi
Wake 857 sq mi
Chatham 709 sq mi
Durham 298 sq mi
Franklin 495 sq mi
Granville 537 sq mi
Harnett 601 sq mi
Johnston 796 sq mi
Orange 401 sq mi
Person 404 sq mi

6590/5098= 1.29 = CLT area is 29% larger than RDU area.

I am not the one that determines what is part of the CSA...that is the Census Bureau. I am not playing the game of "lets add a county to pump up the numbers." Personally I think that the Census Bureau is more impartial than either of us in this matter and so thats why I use their numbers rather then just making crap up.

[Edited 2006-01-10 22:13:56]

My word have mercy, go look up the facts, Granville and it's 50k aren't part of the CSA.

Mercy me Cassie I do declare you are right. Silly me.