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moparman
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Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:33 pm

I just got back from a business trip to Detroit flying on Northwest. On the flight back to GPT, there was a very polite and very pleasent FA working FC. I think his name is Peter or perhaps Paul (at any rate it starts with a "P") about 5' 6" and maybe 130 pounds. Northwest misplaced my luggage, and they asked me to wait at the check-in counter for the supervisor. While waiting at the counter (GPT isn't very busy in the evenings), I notice the polite male FA (Peter or Paul), quickly look around and then walk down a hallway which has two doors (janitor's closet and a ladies restroom). I know this as it is exactly opposite the hall going to the men's restroom (also with a janitor's closet).

Still waiting at the counter for the supervisor (who had radioed that they found my luggage), about 10 minutes later I saw Peter come out of the hall. She was now dressed as a female wearing a reddish turtleneck sweater, black miniskirt, black stockings, and black high heel boots and a blondish wig and perfect make-up. "She" wasn't even bad looking, and I know it was the FA because she was carring the same unique brown leather totebag.

As a physician I have seen many transgendered patients, both male to female and also female to male. I wish them all the very best as I can only imagine the psychological trauma they endure. My question is to the airline policies in this regard as I know there are many FA that are members of this forum.
"Harming a patient is unethical, but I can inflict as much pain as I like" Dr. Phlox
 
JAFA
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:21 am

Great job Nancy Drew........
I have a few problems with this story. A transgendered person doesn't go back and forth between male and female. So that is not the proper term my good doctor. Assuming the story is true (a long shot) that person would be considered a "drag queen" or "female impersonator".

Another problem I have is that no woman much less a "female impersonator" can get dressed with perfect makeup in ten minutes.

Was this mainline NWA or Mesaba or Pinnacle?

I am not aware of any NWA policy about transgendered people. I only know of one in the inflight department. And you would never guess who she was. She doesn't wear makeup or sexy boots.

[Edited 2006-01-09 18:53:59]
 
kaitak
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:45 am

Most airlines have liberal and supportive approaches to this; American Airlines is one and many US (and European) airlines have the same approach.

Thankfully, it is the 21st century, so there is a much greater level of understanding of this issue, which is to be encouraged. American Airlines, Southwest and I think NW - not to mention AF in Europe - have transgendered pilots. There was a thread on this issue something last year, so it might be worth searching for that (I think it was along the lines of Thai cabin crew being transgendered)

In this case, however, it looks as if the TG individual was either not going the whole way, or was in the very early stages.
 
aircanl1011
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting JAFA (Reply 1):
Great job Nancy Drew........

 laughing   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   laughing 
CYMRU AM BYTH / WALES FOREVER
 
PanHAM
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:07 am

.....and I thought that one usually has to change at ATL........
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
access-air
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting FA" class=quote target=_blank>JAFA (Reply 1):
Assuming the story is true (a long shot) that person would be considered a "drag queen" or "female impersonator".

Actually, I think the correct term would be crossdresser. Someone who is travnsgendered assumes the opposite gender Full time....Even if the male FA was gay, dressing in womens clothing still makes him a crossdresser. But then, most crossdressers or transvestites are actually straight men that like to dress in the clothing of the opposite gender. Its kind of a game to them. The original post did not say this FA was effeminate in his mannerisms so one could possibly assume that he might have been straight as well. Which I find even more bizarre than a gay man doing it...

The first known Transgendered Pilot was a Captain for Eastern Airlines. I think he ended up getting fired over doing this back in the 80s.

Tray this link:
http://www.transgenderlaw.org/cases/ulane.htm


Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
airtran737
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:45 am

NW in MKE has an asian guy who has become a woman. The kicker, NW insurance picked up most of the tab. At FL we have an F/A who is a guy but dresses as a woman, it's creepy, but it's what we have to deal with in this world.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
brokenrecord
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting JAFA (Reply 1):
A transgendered person doesn't go back and forth between male and female.

Being transgendered does not mean that one lives full time as the opposite sex. On the other hand, a transsexual does, and is usually taking the proper hormones to prepare for gender re-assignment surgery later.
 
aa757first
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 7):
At FL we have an F/A who is a guy but dresses as a woman,

Aren't their policies against that?

AAndrew
 
brokenrecord
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 9):
Aren't their policies against that?

AAndrew

I don't think there are.
 
cvg2lga
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:15 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 9):
Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 7):
At FL we have an F/A who is a guy but dresses as a woman,

Aren't their policies against that?

What would be the purpose?

Tchau
DA-
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
 
brokenrecord
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:20 pm

Wow this thread got childish fairly quick.

Anyway, I don't think that an airline, or any company for that matter, should have policies against transgendered people. If they look presentable (i.e., the untrained would not know they were TG), don't advertise, and perform the job well then there should be no problem.

One thing to bear in mind is that if they are more comfortable as a woman, they will probably perform their job better if they are allowed to dress like one.
 
NYCFlyGuy
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:22 pm

I find the notion of this person being insane and unstable offensive. I went to college with a guy who dressed as a woman most of the time, took hormones, but no surgery. I think the mere fact that this f/a has come to terms with him/herself is a sign of strength of character, self knowledge and confidence.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:29 pm

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 6):
Actually, I think the correct term would be crossdresser.

I agree. Whatever that F/A is doing in private life, it shouldn't be a matter at all, unless it compromises the airline he or she is working for. So, if a male F/A wants to cross dress in his time off work, so be it. It's his personal choice.

As long as one person is able to perform his or her duties to the fullest, the question of whether he or she is a crossdresser outside of work or even a transsexual person is not a safety matter.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
RAMPRAT980
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:11 pm

The F/A couldn't wait so in front of customers, inside an airport, he goes into a closet a man exits a women. No way in hell this should be allowed. Why couldn't he wait to go outside and get changed. It sends the wrong message. We all know that most male F/A's are gay(so what). But a male F/A who does a quick change at his place of business is not right mentally.

Has anyone seen the movie "Dressed To Kill" ?
With gun control there can be no democracy.. With gun control there can be no Freedom
 
jaysit
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:04 am

On my last Virgin Atlantic flight, it seemed that all the female crew were men in drag.

Someone needs to teach those girls that applying makeup with a shovel makes you look like a tranny at a Halloween party.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
An-225
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:30 am

When you're off the clock, you can do whatever you want. As for YOUR children, the world doesn't, and will never revolve around them. Open your mind, this is 21st Century.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
FlyGuyClt
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:37 am

Why should there be a policy for this post?

-Was the flight attendant dressed as a woman on board? NO.
-Did the flight attendant pop out of the bathroom on the layover off the airplane on his own time in uniform? NO.

You bought a ticket. I am sure your business is appreciated. But what so many people don't understand on these boards is this. When someone works for an airline. They still are individuals. And those individuals can pretty much do as they please on their own time while not representing their company. So, you see, even flight attendants are permitted to be individuals with lives of their own.

Safe Flying  Smile
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
BH
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:36 am

Any policy enforced would probably immediately be seen as discrimination. Which is illegal. (I'm sure we all knew that)
 
cvg2lga
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:41 pm

Quoting An-225 (Reply 16):
When you're off the clock, you can do whatever you want.

True but to an extent, awhile back there was a thread titled somewhat US flight attendants what has happened to us-not exact title I'm sure and apologize for any misconception, but I digress- in this thread a flight attendant themselves acknowleged the difference in crews of US airlines and Foreign airlines and how they composed and carried themselves while in the hotel lobby on a layover. Also I know that when I worked at TSA they threw a big big fit over wearing your tie all the way to your car in the parking lot some 2 miles away from the terminal door off the main exit road and out of sight of most people who don't work at the airport. And another stupid thing was the TSA jacket that was issued to us, we could wear it from our car to the airport and inside the airport and back to the car but if you stopped for gas on the way home you were to shed it and not wear into the station or to pump gas. So as long as you are in uniform, even if you are on your time off, you are still representing your employer. So long as you are not in uniform or on duty-go for it, be yourself and enjoy it too.
Tchau
DA-
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
 
USADreamliner
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:59 pm

Quoting JAFA (Reply 1):
Another problem I have is that no woman much less a "female impersonator" can get dressed with perfect makeup in ten minutes.

HAhahahaha!
That is so true. Maybe the "woman" was his twin evil sister!  biggrin   devil 

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 15):
On my last Virgin Atlantic flight, it seemed that all the female crew were men in drag.

We call them British women.

Quoting RAMPRAT980 (Reply 14):
But a male F/A who does a quick change at his place of business is not right mentally.

And who are you to say that he is not right mentally?
Maybe you should see Transamerica.And open your mind a little.


USADreamliner listen 
 
smf757
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 13):
As long as one person is able to perform his or her duties to the fullest, the question of whether he or she is a crossdresser outside of work or even a transsexual person is not a safety matter.

Exactly - who cares as long as they do their duties and do them with professionalism and sincerity.

When I worked at Apple Computers, I worked with a woman -> man who could grow a better gotee than I could - I'm still jealous!

Quoting CVG2LGA (Reply 19):
And another stupid thing was the TSA jacket that was issued to us, we could wear it from our car to the airport and inside the airport and back to the car but if you stopped for gas on the way home you were to shed it and not wear into the station or to pump gas.

In California - same goes for CHP and correctional officers. I could understand this as a safety issue - that gold badge sometimes is a target.
Gotta love that 757
 
moparman
Topic Author
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:26 am

JAFA:

Quoting JAFA (Reply 1):
Great job Nancy Drew........
I have a few problems with this story. A transgendered person doesn't go back and forth between male and female. So that is not the proper term my good doctor. Assuming the story is true (a long shot) that person would be considered a "drag queen" or "female impersonator".

Another problem I have is that no woman much less a "female impersonator" can get dressed with perfect makeup in ten minutes.

Of course a transgendered person, living fulltime in his or her chosen gender, doesn't go back and forth between male and female (but one that is not living fulltime does). What I ment was: trying to be polite- I do not know the status of this person: be it transgendered, transvestite, or other. Several patients of mine are male to female transgender, but do as yet not live full time as women. What do you call them JAFA? Are they "drag queens"? I think not. Perhaps you are also a psychologist and can make that judgement.

As with the make-up, it looked right to me. Then again, I'm a man and I may not see the flaws. She was however well dressed, and presented herself as a female. All I know is that she went in the restroom, and came out 10-15 minutes later. Let me ask you something: why would I want to lie about this? I happened to notice this situation and as I was curious I asked a question concerning. If the time would have been taken to read what I wrote, it is obvious that I was not presenting a judgement - in fact, the exact opposite.



FlyGuyClt:

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 17):
You bought a ticket. I am sure your business is appreciated. But what so many people don't understand on these boards is this. When someone works for an airline. They still are individuals. And those individuals can pretty much do as they please on their own time while not representing their company. So, you see, even flight attendants are permitted to be individuals with lives of their own.

I fully agree with you. That is the way it should be. There are some industries which do tend to regulate private lives be it legally or illegally; in an open or hidden manner. The medical profession is one of them in regards to codes of conduct. During the flight, the person in question was excellent in every manner. Attentive, polite, kind, well groomed... the list goes on.

[Edited 2006-01-13 18:33:58]
"Harming a patient is unethical, but I can inflict as much pain as I like" Dr. Phlox
 
moparman
Topic Author
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:26 pm

LTU932:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 13):
I agree. Whatever that F/A is doing in private life, it shouldn't be a matter at all, unless it compromises the airline he or she is working for. So, if a male F/A wants to cross dress in his time off work, so be it. It's his personal choice.

I do agree with you. I will go you one further though: It is my opinion, if the person in question is transgendered (rather then a transvestite) SHE should be allowed to dress as a female flight attendent, rather than as a male flight attendent. This would in fact follow the Harry Benjamin Standards which are the medical blueprint on the treatment of transgendered patients. If the FA is however a transvestite, I feel he should wait to dress as a woman until he arrives at his hotel as he was wearing his uniform going into the restroom.


JAFA:

To your question: "Was this mainline NWA or Mesaba or Pinnacle?"

I really don't recall for certain as my flight was changed in Memphis in haste. The flight from Detroit to Memphis was certainly NWA mainline being a B757, and the flight to GPT was, I assume NWA mainline, being a DC-9.




RAMPRAT980:

Quoting RAMPRAT980 (Reply 14):
We all know that most male F/A's are gay(so what). But a male F/A who does a quick change at his place of business is not right mentally.

I strongly disagree with you on the above. Gender Dyptheria isn't a mental illness at all. It is a psychological need: A person with this disorder feels that they are psychologically a person of the opposite gender. The sexual orientation of the person is not in question. It should be noted that a male to female transgender that is attracted to men is in fact HETROSEXUAL, instead of homosexual as there is a definate diffrence between gender and sex.
"Harming a patient is unethical, but I can inflict as much pain as I like" Dr. Phlox
 
moparman
Topic Author
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:28 pm

Brokenrecord:

Quoting Brokenrecord (Reply 11):
Wow this thread got childish fairly quick.

Anyway, I don't think that an airline, or any company for that matter, should have policies against transgendered people. If they look presentable (i.e., the untrained would not know they were TG), don't advertise, and perform the job well then there should be no problem.

One thing to bear in mind is that if they are more comfortable as a woman, they will probably perform their job better if they are allowed to dress like one.

Welcome to my respected user list. You seem to be an openminded and sensible person. Those two qualities are very important to me.
"Harming a patient is unethical, but I can inflict as much pain as I like" Dr. Phlox
 
mdl21483
Posts: 157
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:27 pm

Oh joy, we get to go down this road again. :P

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2):
There was a thread on this issue something last year,

This is the EXACT thread that Kaitak means.
It was a very long ongoing discussion that turned out to be very much insightful and omni perspective. I have it saved in my favorites list for that one reason. I still feel for Womack17 and Jamake1, who have/had family in this tangent of life.


I look at it this way: Everyone has their differences, whether it be physical, mental, sociological, etc. With what we are born with is merely a template to build off of and modify from; it's our actions and what we make of our lives that truely defines each of us.
BTW, KAITAK, thanks for being helpful on that thread when this topic came up the first time! Ever hear of what happened with Jamake1 or Tasha?

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 8):
Aren't there policies against that?

There are policies in place on this type of subject matter to allow and promote equality as it would fall under an airline's (or most business') general non-discrimination policies under the classification of gender, whether it be as established, implied, or identified. These employees are subject to the same requirements, certifications, and regulations as Every other employee for the company is. And I will also add this about the employment process- If they look professional can maintain the right poise, properness, and socibility while knowing their p's and q's about the airline, its procedures, practices, and equipment, then what one has below or was born with versus currently or along the way has absolutely no premise in the heads of the recruiters and interviewers. I know this from expirence. It's when one gets to the required physical that it becomes a factor, and even then its usually not more than a footnote that gets locked away in the back of some dusty file cabinet.

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 5):
The first known Transgendered Pilot was a Captain for Eastern Airlines. I think he ended up getting fired over doing this back in the 80s.

Tray this link:
http://www.transgenderlaw.org/cases/...e.htm

first transsexual pilot? no, there's been other before then. keep in mind that the whole umbrella term of transgendered has been around through various cultures as far back as ancient indian and native american tribes, so its only logical that there were some from when flying wasn't much more than hot air baloons over Europe. However this was indeed one of the first documented cases on such matters.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 6):
At FL we have an F/A who is a guy but dresses as a woman, it's creepy, but it's what we have to deal with in this world.

I can understand how this could be percieved that way, after all, many people were raised without exposure to alot of stuff, not just the whole glbt thing but also different religions, cultures, and what not. Some of us freak out over someone eating a few bugs or walking on smoldering coals on Fear Factor or Survivor, but thats cause we haven't had actual exposure to that before- to some things that just are there in the great big blue world. Some people may squirm at the thought of eating eel or jelly fish, nothing is really bad once youve given it a chance. Having a little bit of asian in me, I will admit that it was pretty interesting to taste at first, but now thats just a part of life, part of my culture. So just give her a chance, say hi sometime, and I gurantuee, things will be easier and more focused the next times round.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 13):
I agree. Whatever that F/A is doing in private life, it shouldn't be a matter at all, unless it compromises the airline he or she is working for. So, if a male F/A wants to cross dress in his time off work, so be it. It's his personal choice.

As long as one person is able to perform his or her duties to the fullest, the question of whether he or she is a crossdresser outside of work or even a transsexual person is not a safety matter.

Just like what LTU932 said, as long as ANYONE is able to perform his or her duties to the fullest, whatever ANY person does in his/her private life is not a matter at all unless it compromises the airline in some way. The person in question probably had already obtained prior clearence from her upper management to be able to do so and also I believe was about ready to be off for the night anyway. from the discription given, it sounds like she was possibly going out somewhere down the avenue for some holiday party clubbing with the gang anyways.

Quoting RAMPRAT980 (Reply 14):
Has anyone seen the movie "Dressed To Kill" ?

ugh I have to stop you there, buddy, that movie didn't get nominated for any awards for obviously good reasons. I suggest you try the Golden Globe nominees Mae Vie En Rose and Soldier's Girl... Guess Some Like it Hot lol

~Melanie~
From the shores of the sea we have come afar, we have risen high, among the stars.
 
mdl21483
Posts: 157
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:19 pm

Quoting Moparman (Reply 23):
if the person in question is transgendered (rather then a transvestite) SHE should be allowed to dress as a female flight attendant, rather than as a male flight attendant. This would in fact follow the Harry Benjamin Standards which are the medical blueprint on the treatment of transgendered patients.

LOL glad somebody besides myself already knowsall about HBIGDA  Cool
I totally agree with you. And for those that don't know, it is a pretty much required part of the process of evaluation/confirmation that such an individual must be able to demonstrate ease and normalcy in living completely and fully as their true self on a long term basis, before one can be legally approved for any finalizing procedures in the form of surgery. That's for 1-3 years, 24/7/365. Although your statement that she did a switcharoo would seem to suggest otherwise, which is ultimately besides the point....

Maybe she was a friend of one of your current patients, recognized you and knew you'd be relatively cool about it? Although I hope its not taken wrongly when she finds out about the posting. LOL.  Silly

~Melanie~
From the shores of the sea we have come afar, we have risen high, among the stars.
 
kaitak
Posts: 10061
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:01 pm

MDL21483,
I wasn't actually in direct contact with any of these people, but I hope they have done well. Life is too short to have one's potential and abilities obstructed by shortsighted people, who often hide behind religion as a means to rationalise their own bigotry.

Thankfully, we in Europe have laws to protect transgendered people, but in the US, it's down to the conscience of individual airlines. I wonder how long it will be before some right wing organisation holds airlines to ransom, in the same way they did to Ford with the ads:

"end your protection of the following categories of people - transgendered, gay, (etc.) or else we institute a boycott of your products/services".

Hopefully we are a long way from that happening, but I often fear that it's closer than we think.

The essence of a free society is that it exists for the good of its people, to help them to realise and optimise their potential as human beings. Sometimes the "religious right" and "Christian fundamentalists" forget this - and sadly, the administration in power is all too willing to kow-tow to their very unchristian interpretation of the Bible and other religious principles. Unfortunately, TG/TS people are all too often the victims of this.
 
777Purser
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:06 am

hhhmmm...polcies on trangendered people..I guess that as long as their travel documents, names and picture have been legally updated to match the "new and improved" menioned F/A and they can travel legally I do not see a problem. Once a woman though, they should wear the female uniform in full regulation, hair up, small earings and make up....ah...and not too short skirt...not an inch above their knee...
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting JAFA (Reply 1):
I have a few problems with this story. A transgendered person doesn't go back and forth between male and female. So that is not the proper term my good doctor. Assuming the story is true (a long shot) that person would be considered a "drag queen" or "female impersonator".

I have to take exception to this generalization.

When I first started at UA in PHL there was a resturant worker who was transitioning. We still talk about his/her transformation at work sometimes. It was fascinating to observe the gradual change over from obviously effeminate male, through complete androgyny, to for all intents and purposes female.

During the late stages of this change over, he was observed working as a male, or at least wereing the standard resturant uniform, but getting off work going to the disabilities restroom in Terminal D and changing to female attire.

Obviously, some who are transgendered move back and forth during the process. All I know is that shortly after that change was seen He/SHe quit his job. We specualte it was to take a job as a female and begin living life fulltime as a woman.

Now this wasn't a airline worker, just an airport worker. I have met a NW pilot who it appeared transitioned at sometime. My buddy at Airlink is well aware of this pilot and says that they are well known around NW system. (It is NOT a convincing transition.) However, everyone who comes in contact with her is professional, and she apparently does her job professionally as well. When it comes to flying a plane that's really all that counts.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
mdl21483
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting 777Purser (Reply 28):
I guess that as long as their travel documents, names and picture have been legally updated to match the "new and improved" mentioned F/A and they can travel legally I do not see a problem. Once a woman though, they should wear the female uniform in full regulation, hair up, small earrings and make up....ah...and not too short skirt...not an inch above their knee...

Exactly, as long as the person in question is able to continue their expected performance, it's not a problem. The only things that would cause a potential problem in customs for those that do international services are local stipulations in regards to getting the birth certificate changed to reflect the change and thus the issuance of a valid passport. I'm still trying to figure out though how NW would opt to fit the bill for someone's SRS when the procedure costs between 7k-33k depending on surgeon, hospital, anesthesia, etc... As far as I know the only ones that would do that is if you 1: have Blue Cross/Blue Shield and/or 2: are based out of California, particularly SFO.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 27):
Thankfully, we in Europe have laws to protect transgendered people, but in the US, it's down to the conscience of individual airlines. I wonder how long it will be before some right wing organization holds airlines to ransom, in the same way they did to Ford with the ads:

"end your protection of the following categories of people - transgendered, gay, (etc.) or else we institute a boycott of your products/services".

Oh that's already been happening subtly for years.  Sad For instance, the policies on serving. If it isn't typing it as destruction of government property, faulty enlistment, or a subcategory violation of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," then its excluded under the premise that while deployed abroad, the proper medical facilities are usually not available and thus could be argued as an endangerment clause, which is crap. One to two years after SRS, and the medical needs are no more than that of any woman that's had a complete hysterectomy. I have heard of some that have managed to get around this malarkie of quick excuses, but usually these are senior ranking officers and thus too important to just discard for a personal thing. I say give me the training I need, teach me how to use the right stuff, and the hell with whats between anyones legs when all I need to do is take point & call for backup the next time I see some nutjob trying to speed through a checkpoint in a car full of nitrates! Let the one in question & their family sign a few waivers that if anything happens, they've been advised beforehand of the possibilities and choose to continue despite that. It's EVERYONE's right to choose to defend their country- a right that shouldn't ever be denied as long as there's service before self.

A few years ago there was also a bit of a stir when the first lady, Laura Bush had this one idea of trying to outlaw Hormone Replacement Therapy, which of course would have effected many millions more than just the Transpopulous because she had this notion that women don't need to substitute the whole course of god & nature thing...



When you have so many people in your immediate life that are, you learn many things. I know a few pilots abroad, a few mechanics & f/a's at WN, and an engineer for Boeing & Nasa that are, as well as few others that I've come to enjoy over the years, besides my mother in law that was an RN for many years and had a number of trans patients and taking clinical sexology as one of your electives. So yea, expirence directly is the best way to learn about something that you may not know much about. heh.

~Melanie~
From the shores of the sea we have come afar, we have risen high, among the stars.
 
afrikaskyes
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:56 am

RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:41 am

I once encountered a transgender FA on an ASA CRJ flight. It was quite obvious that she was an older male. Perhaps the change was not all complete. I don't know. She thought it was cute to wear a vintage Delta crew members cap turned at an angle and tipped down slightly above her left eye. She wore this cap as the passengers were boarding. She also leaned against the galley wall like she was posing or something. Kind of like she was a pinup or something. I cannot make this up. It was one of those incidents where you didn't know how to respond or what to think. Passengers kind of looked at each other. No one really knew what to say. She could have toned it down a bit. I'm not sure if she is still flying or not. Whatever makes you happy, I guess.
 
moparman
Topic Author
Posts: 388
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:49 am

RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:07 am

Melanie:

Quoting MDL21483 (Reply 26):
LOL glad somebody besides myself already knowsall about HBIGDA

Transgendered folks have a large enough stigma to deal with. It has to be very difficult for them in a way perhaps impossible for a none transgendered person to fathom. My personal opinion about the "standards" is that they are to severe and many transgendered are blocked because of the time factors.

Transitioning at work has to be doubly difficult. The more I think about the person in question, I believe that she is in fact a male-to-female transgender in the early stages of her transition. I believe that, even while she was wearing a male jacket on the aircraft, there were hints of breasts, and other signs on second thought. I may be completely wrong, or perhaps seeing things which were not there.



Quoting MDL21483 (Reply 26):
Maybe she was a friend of one of your current patients, recognized you and knew you'd be relatively cool about it? Although I hope its not taken wrongly when she finds out about the posting. LOL.

Ohh God I hope not. I work in the ER. My favorite patients are those that I help and then send on thier ways never to be seen again. I guess there are advantages to being a GP: the close contact to patients. Speaking of transgendered patients. I saw a TG patient yesterday evening, and didn't even know she was TG until I examined her.

Quoting MDL21483 (Reply 30):
I'm still trying to figure out though how NW would opt to fit the bill for someone's SRS when the procedure costs between 7k-33k depending on surgeon, hospital, anesthesia, etc... As far as I know the only ones that would do that is if you 1: have Blue Cross/Blue Shield and/or 2: are based out of California, particularly SFO.

I am not at all certain that NW is even paying for her proceedures. I attended a workshop earlier this year in Sacramento with Dr. Gary Alter of L.A. as the featured speaker. I will not bore you with the surgical proceedure, but lets just say that a vaginoplasty is a serious proceedure. I think you are about write on the cost of about $33000 in the U.S., but I think the surgery can be done for considerably less overseas (Thailand coming to mind).

Quoting MDL21483 (Reply 30):
One to two years after SRS, and the medical needs are no more than that of any woman that's had a complete hysterectomy

That is not quite correct. Even after a complete hysterectomy, a genetic female will require a lower dosage of estrogen then a post-operative male to female transgender. Why this is? That is still a mystery to medicine as it hasn't been fully explained.

Also in this regard: The flight attendent in question, is doing a magnificent job of controlling her emotions and temper considering that the levels of hormones given to transgender patients in HRT cause severe mood swings. She is a top notch FA, and a true credit to Northwest Airlines. I sincerely hope that the next time I encounter her onboard of a NWA flight she will be appropriately dressed as a FEMALE flight attendent.




Afrikaskyes:

Quoting Afrikaskyes (Reply 31):
I once encountered a transgender FA on an ASA CRJ flight. It was quite obvious that she was an older male. Perhaps the change was not all complete.



Quoting Afrikaskyes (Reply 31):
She also leaned against the galley wall like she was posing or something. Kind of like she was a pinup or something. I cannot make this up. It was one of those incidents where you didn't know how to respond or what to think. Passengers kind of looked at each other. No one really knew what to say. She could have toned it down a bit

This is quite unusual. It is my understanding that transgendered patients are generally fairly reserved, more than flamboyant. Of course everything is possible. I myself have encountered FA on DL that were questionable in the fashion outlined.


Kaitak:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 27):
Thankfully, we in Europe have laws to protect transgendered people, but in the US, it's down to the conscience of individual airlines

I have to disagree with this one. The U.S. is very liberal in regards to transgendered people in comparison to Europe. What confuses many Europeans is that there are both State and Federal laws. Normally, it is the individual States that would govern such things. Under Federal Law (any attornies here please correct me if I'm wrong), employers cannot discriminate in policy or hiring of TG persons.

Also this might strike people as strange. It is my understanding that here in Mississippi when a genetic male completes the GRS, she is given all the rights of a genetic female including that of marring a male. There was a story recently in the papers of a post-op TG woman attending a sporting event and using the mens restroom because the ladies room had a line. She was arrested, and booked for indecent exposure. The judge advised her that in her current state that she is to use the ladies restroom exclusively.
"Harming a patient is unethical, but I can inflict as much pain as I like" Dr. Phlox
 
mdl21483
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Policies Governing Transgendered FA

Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:07 pm

Quoting Moparman (Reply 32):
Transgendered folks have a large enough stigma to deal with. It has to be very difficult for them in a way perhaps impossible for a non-transgendered person to fathom. My personal opinion about the "standards" is that they are to severe and many transgendered are blocked because of the time factors.

I do agree that the board can do better, particularly on incorporating modified guidelines for the younger generations, but they try to rationalize it as one of those better safe than sorry type of rationals- which person's/group's rationale is another part of it though.
I'll see with my friends when revision 7 is issued...

Quoting Moparman (Reply 32):
I will not bore you with the surgical proceedure, but lets just say that a v-plasty is a serious procedure.



As serious as possibly leading to life or death for some, much less the usuall in bed in recovery for about a week. Wouldn't be boring me with it- I know alot more about it than I care to discuss in a open venue like this, more suited for webmd, not a.net. a while ago I did a report on it's history for school, which has become quite remarkible these days. I would've mentioned it earlier but I don't want to get banned for making most of the guys in here cringe and whatnot.
From the shores of the sea we have come afar, we have risen high, among the stars.

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