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airlineaddict
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PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:14 pm

Philippine Airlines will be dropping Kuala Lumpur as of February 15 and Riyadh in March. PR cited competition from low cost carriers and "intense competition" from Middle East carriers for the change.

Most interesting about the article is the mention of beefing up flights from LAX or SFO including a possible LAX - CEB flight which has been discussed here before. Pre-emptive strike against Cebu Pacific?

http://money.inq7.net/breakingnews/v...php?yyyy=2006&mon=01&dd=10&file=18
 
MAS777
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:56 pm

hardly surprising KUL is going. I often wondered how they could compete with MAS and AirAsia's multiple flights a day when PR only flew 3 times a week.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:44 pm

Worth noticing that Air Asia doesn't actually operate into Manila's International Airport, but routes its flights to Clark, which is about 80 km out of Manila and much closer to Angeles City. Nevertheless, PR must be getting quite a beating with all the new LCC traffic - Air Asia operated to Clark from KUL and BKK, Tiger Airways from SIN and MFM and JetStar Asia operates into MNL from SIN.
 
thaiaggie
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:37 am

Seems like KUL is losing many airlines, even PR which is Southeast Asian carrier. Too bad that such a nice new airport but nobody wants to fly to.
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Coronado990
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:46 am

Is SAN still in PR's scopes? We could use the lift.

Signed: Tired of giving MNL quotes from LAX when PAX live in SAN.
SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
PanAm747
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:03 am

Quote:
Is SAN still in PR's scopes? We could use the lift.

Signed: Tired of giving MNL quotes from LAX when PAX live in SAN.

Wouldn't that be a spectacular sight gliding in over Balboa Park?

Considering that LAX-MNL flights stop in HNL, the infrastructure is already there for a SAN-HNL-MNL flight. Is aircraft availability holding it back?
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malaysia
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:08 am

I thought you cannot fly pax between SAN-HNL if it was PR?
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Coronado990
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 6):
I thought you cannot fly pax between SAN-HNL if it was PR?

HNL is a fuel stop as westbound flights operate into headwinds. LAX and SFO flights to MNL make the fuel stop at HNL as well.

I am sure a lack of aircraft is what is holding PR back.
SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
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malaysia
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 7):
HNL is a fuel stop as westbound flights operate into headwinds. LAX and SFO flights to MNL make the fuel stop at HNL as well.

I am sure a lack of aircraft is what is holding PR back.

I was also referring to the last person who posted about the infrastructure being there for SAN-HNL-MNL (probably expecting that they could do cabotage) PR does not have rights to fly PAX just between HNL and the Mainland US.
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KL808
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 7):
I am sure a lack of aircraft is what is holding PR back.

I believe the market is not that big. They consider SAN and LAX as one. Don't hold your breath on this route, it will not happen. In California there use to be 3 consulates now there are only 2, as the government considers southern California ie San Diego and Los Angeles as one. This has nothing to do with the airline, but believe me PR has the same kind of thoughts.

If you open SAN flights they will definitely reduce LAX flights.

PR use to fly to DMM, JED, and RUH. I think the biggest culprit in the MidEast would be EK. Saudia flies to MNL also but PR's service is far better. EK has some very wicked fares to MNL from RYD almost capacity dumping.

Drew
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Coronado990
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 8):
I was also referring to the last person who posted about the infrastructure being there for SAN-HNL-MNL (probably expecting that they could do cabotage) PR does not have rights to fly PAX just between HNL and the Mainland US.

I think the infrastructure PanAm747 is referring to is Lindbergh's short runway (9400') and rising terrain making an overseas non-stop impossible. However, since LAX and SFO flights stop in HNL for fuel anyway, the SAN flight can be just as competitive because a hop over to the Hawaiian Islands should not be a problem from here. Please note eastbound flights are non-stop to the west coast and do not stop at HNL.
SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
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Coronado990
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting KL808 (Reply 9):
I believe the market is not that big. They consider SAN and LAX as one.

Oh yeah, I forgot...we are a suburb of L.A.
SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
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LAXintl
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:22 am

Sure there are Filipinos in San Diego, however I am not sure the demand would particularly warrant its own flight.

In addition PAL whom is quite financially conscious as apparent with the withdrawals from KUL and RUH due losses, would be better served by adding more frequencies to LAX as the cost of operating such flights would be minimal since the PAL allready maintains infrastructure and market presence and would avoid the cost of opening a new station plus marketing and time required to make it profitable.

However if PAL would venture out looking for a new US city, I would hope they would consider Illinois, New York/New Jersey or even Texas whom all have large Filipino communities.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
COSPN
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:00 am

GUAM to be new PAL Fuel stop....

MANILA, Philippines Philippine Airlines says that starting tomorrow, its flights from Los Angeles and San Francisco to Manila will make technical stops in Guam instead of Honolulu.

The new set-up will allow trans-Pacific passengers 10 hours of uninterrupted time to sleep, dine, read or watch a movie since Guam is further west than Honolulu.

Stops in Honolulu occur just five hours into the flight.

The one-hour stops are required during certain times of the year, particularly during the winter months when headwinds are strong enough to affect aircraft flying westward across the Pacific.

Flights from Manila to the West Coast are nonstop because they have tail winds.
 
KL808
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 12):
However if PAL would venture out looking for a new US city, I would hope they would consider Illinois, New York/New Jersey or even Texas whom all have large Filipino communities.

Indeed, with the closure of KUL PR can increase capacity on routes within SE Asia which they are doing pretty well on especially to China.

With the closure of RUH, this frees up an A340-300, maybe PR can open a MNL-YVR- (ORD, DFW, HOU, and or EWR) route, I think this would be far better than opening a route to SAN.

Quoting COSPN (Reply 13):
Flights from Manila to the West Coast are nonstop because they have tail winds.

Its not just tail wind, its also the lack of Balikbayan boxes. LOL.

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
airlineaddict
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:38 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 12):
However if PAL would venture out looking for a new US city, I would hope they would consider Illinois, New York/New Jersey or even Texas whom all have large Filipino communities.

With the discontinuation of the nonstop JFK-NRT flights on NW (which connected with the NRT-MNL flight), I wonder if PR will have a better shot with a NY/NJ-YVR-MNL route? Admittedly, there's more competition than just NW now for a one-stop to MNL: CX, KE, BR, CI, OZ, JL.

Quoting COSPN (Reply 13):
GUAM to be new PAL Fuel stop....

What a great change! Any one have any ideas if there's any cost savings on landing fees between GUM and HNL? Here's a more detailed article:

Starting January 5, 2006, Philippine Airlines Boeing 747-400 flights from the U.S. West Coast to Manila will use Guam as a technical stop when necessary - a move that benefits PAL passengers with longer, uninterrupted rest time on their trans-Pacific journey.

Guam replaces Honolulu as the PAL technical stop, except in cases of inclement weather in the former, the airline said.

"This new set-up affords our trans-Pacific passengers plenty of time to sleep, dine, read, watch a movie or, if they prefer, catch up on some work. It's all part of our service philosophy to constantly find ways of pleasing our passengers," PAL executive vice president Henry So Uy said.

The switch initially covers the flag carrier's daily B747-400 flights originating from Los Angeles (PR 103) and San Francisco (PR 105), but will soon be implemented on the Airbus A340 service every Wednesday, Friday and Sunday from both cities.

Technical stops are required during certain times of the year, particularly during the winter months (November-March), when headwinds are strong enough to affect aircraft flying westward across the Pacific.

As a result, airplanes typically need to refuel in an intermediate point during the 12-to-13-hour flight. Honolulu has been PAL's technical stop for many years, but this required passengers to break their rest period twice.

The first occurs just five hours into the flight, when passengers prepare for landing in the Hawaii capital. They resume their rest after the technical stop but are again roused several hours later as the aircraft starts descent into Manila.

With the switch to Guam, located further west from Honolulu, passengers can enjoy up to 10 hours of continuous rest after their inflight dinner, PAL noted.

Following the one-hour stop in Guam, breakfast is then served prior to arrival in Manila. Snacks are also available anytime between meals. PAL offers the only non-stop service between Manila and the U.S. West Coast, with nine and eight flights weekly from Los Angeles and San Francisco, respectively.

Quoting KL808 (Reply 14):
Its not just tail wind, its also the lack of Balikbayan boxes. LOL.

Not too sure about that... To the Philippines, gifts to the family back home... From the Philippines, shopping and gifts to the people who sent gifts. But to be sure, definitely no cans of corned beef or SPAM on the flights from MNL. ha ha!
 
md90fan
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:13 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5):
Considering that LAX-MNL flights stop in HNL, the infrastructure is already there for a SAN-HNL-MNL flight. Is aircraft availability holding it back?

Doesnt sometimes it goes n/s MNL-LAX? How come RUY didnt work? IIRC there are alot of filipinos and south east asians in the whole gulf region?
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centrair
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:28 pm

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 15):
there's more competition than just NW now for a one-stop to MNL

Good point.

I was flying DTW-NGO 2 weeks ago and asked the lady standing in line behind by why she flies NW to MNL. She said that simply, PR doesn't connect as well to the U.S. Domestic market, only has west coast service and she didn't like the schedule. She came from South Carolina and did the entire trip on one ticket with limited transfer at DTW and NGO (deplane and reboard). The flight from DTW, I think was at least 90% Fillipino. I would say only something like 50 or 60 people were waiting for luggage at NGO.

Does PR have inline ticketing to the U.S. domestic market? If so, what airline?
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
airlineaddict
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 17):
PR doesn't connect as well to the U.S. Domestic market, only has west coast service and she didn't like the schedule.



Quoting Centrair (Reply 17):
Does PR have inline ticketing to the U.S. domestic market? If so, what airline?

It's quite true that passengers from the midwest and east coast have problems with the timing of the PR flights from MNL to LAX/SFO. The issue is that these flights arrive in the West Coast anywhere from 4:30 PM to 7:30 PM (depending on the time of year). The closest connecting flights to the midwest would be the red-eye flights around midnight. Even though the flights from MNL to the West Coast are non-stop, the 5 hour layover is tough for folks to handle.

In addition, passengers flying to US secondary markets (e.g., SC) will have to make a domestic connection to get to the West Coast which translates into as many as three stops on the flights to MNL. Adding a MNL - ORD flight would definitely help with passengers from the midwest and south (connecting with AA).

With regards to inline ticketing, PR has agreements with AA, CO, and HP (I believe).
 
KL808
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:38 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 16):
How come RUY didnt work? IIRC there are alot of filipinos and south east asians in the whole gulf region?

The planes where flying in and out full but yields was very poor.

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
abrelosojos
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:53 pm

Can I just say how happy I am with the GUM stop? I hated waking up soon after falling asleep as we stopped @ HNL.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
Trvlr
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:58 am

Regarding new destinations in the United States, keep in mind that PAL was willing to open up Las Vegas. While being a tourist destination and having a large Filipino community, LAS is still close enough to LAX and SFO to be easily serviced by a connecting flight.

San Diego, by contrast (and comparison), has an even larger Filipino community than Las Vegas (and a huge one at that), and is also a tourist destination in and of itself. While I agree it would be prudent for PAL to add more flights to LAX, I don't see opening up San Diego as entirely out of the question.

Aaron G.
 
airlineaddict
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:24 am

Would you route SAN via GUM or YVR where you can pick up passengers?
 
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Coronado990
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:38 am

A SAN-MNL flight would either have to stop at YVR or HNL. It would never make it to GUM non-stop out of SAN.

And a SAN flight does not have to be daily. 3 x week would be a good beginning.

S Small
A Airport
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D Domestic or
I International
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SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
masseybrown
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 11):
Oh yeah, I forgot...we are a suburb of L.A.

Now you know how Philadelphia feels.  Smile
 
jacobin777
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 18):
Adding a MNL - ORD flight would definitely help with passengers from the midwest and south (connecting with AA).

ORD has a large Philipino community, I'm surprised they PR isn't serving ORD yet..maybe they have it on their radar.....
"Up the Irons!"
 
ctbarnes
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting KL808 (Reply 19):
How come RUY didnt work? IIRC there are alot of filipinos and south east asians in the whole gulf region?

The planes where flying in and out full but yields was very poor.

Plus, most of their contracts probably require they fly Saudia to and from their point of hire.

Charles, SJ

Nit-Picky PS: The code for Riyadh is RUH.
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Coronado990
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 24):
Now you know how Philadelphia feels.

Now, pretend you have no flights to Europe and you always had to drive or take a Saab to JFK to leave the country. No EWR to work with either. Welcome to our world.
SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
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LAXintl
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:37 am

Unlike Las Vegas which is an isolated market on its own, San Diego suffers due to its proximity to the greater Los Angeles market and hence does not draw much international services on its own.

With a driving distance of a mere 120miles from airport to airport, many airlines, particularly international ones rather serve the much larger LAX market then add a separate San Diego flights.

While San Diego happens to be a great and growing city, its proximity to LA hurts it in regards to many business opportunities whom simply view San Diego as part of the greater Southern California region and fail to establish a seperate presence in San Diego which the city could likely support if it was not geographically so closely aligned with the greater Los Angeles region. Afterall the San Diego metro area has over 3 million people, larger then many other US cities that enjoy much greater international services on their own.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
N751PR
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:15 am

Sad to see the Middle East disappearing from PR's routemaps. Still feels like yesterday when they axed DHA and reinstated KUL.  Sad

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 20):
Can I just say how happy I am with the GUM stop? I hated waking up soon after falling asleep as we stopped @ HNL.

You're not the only one that's bursting into tears of joy. Big grin

Quoting Centrair (Reply 17):
She said that simply, PR doesn't connect as well to the U.S. Domestic market, only has west coast service and she didn't like the schedule.

That seriously can be understood. Though I've been thinking of moving back to the Midwest-East Coast in later years, one thing that seems to be a hurdle for me is trips back "home" in the Philippines (not to mention that there's Jollibee fast food resteraunts here.  Wink )

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 25):
ORD has a large Philipino community, I'm surprised they PR isn't serving ORD yet..maybe they have it on their radar.....

PR did serve ORD back in the 80s though that service didn't last long. When they introduced ORD into their route network, they even had a 742 w/ a "Mabuhay Chicago" sticker.


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Indeed, hopefully they will reinstate this service someday.
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Dreamflight767
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RE: PR To Drop Riyadh And Kuala Lumpur

Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:37 am

Thanks for all this info. guys, I was just wondering about this myself! Will/Does PR drop and pick pax. up in GUM? Or will they just uplift and go?

Is PR ever going to get some long range a/c for these and any future routes?

Aaron

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