Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
BA380
Topic Author
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 9:59 pm

Cathay LHR-JFK

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:25 pm

I recall that in order for VS to be given the rights to fly HKG-SYD, Cathay was given the rights to fly LHR-JFK... and yet it seems that they haven't taken up that option. Anyone know why? Any plans to start this route?
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
carledwards
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 2:32 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:40 pm

that would be great; since if this were to happen I believe they would be the first airline to offer a round the world service (correct me if im wrong please!?)

However I can imagine that it would be quite difficult for Cathay to make this route profitable, as I cannot think of any need for them to have their own passengers connecting on this flight to other services.

The only way it would work is if it was a BA/QF/CX One World code share.

It also would not be of any use to Cathay frequent flyers since their oneworld benefits should be valid on BA anyway?

The only bonus in their favour is LHR-JFK is a profitable route regardless, and if they offer good fares, people will buy them. But in my experience Cathay are never cheap!

Im not sure ths route will ever happen to be honest, even though it is a nice idea.
Extraordinary World
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8358
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:52 pm

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 1):
The only bonus in their favour is LHR-JFK is a profitable route regardless

Tell that to United, who have just halved their schedule to Heathrow - now just daily.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
CPH757
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:40 pm

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:54 pm

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 1):
that would be great; since if this were to happen I believe they would be the first airline to offer a round the world service (correct me if im wrong please!?)

Doesn't SQ fly SIN-FRA-JFK?
Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
 
jakob77
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:09 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:32 am

Quoting CPH757 (Reply 3):
Doesn't SQ fly SIN-FRA-JFK?

yes but the 345 non-stop is SIN - EWR
 
MarshalN
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:38 am

Actually I believe China Airlines had a round the world at one point.. correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC that was the case.

I don't really see why they should start that service though from JFK-LHR.
 
LeonB1985
Posts: 690
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:21 pm

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:48 am

I am sure I heard somewhere that CX had not taken up this plan due to a lack of slots at suitable times...
From the construction site that is better-known as London Heathrow Airport
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:53 am

I'm not sure the EU has approved it yet....
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
PlaneGuy27
Posts: 289
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:38 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:04 am

A couple of issues:

- Slots - Why would Cathay want to shuffle any slots around from the valuable HKG-LHR route for JFK-LHR. If they are able to get more slots, then it would change....

- I have a feeling BA and AA, as key oneworld members, would not be happy at all to have CX on this route. Even though CX could do a frequency to start, BA/AA market dominance and service coupled with CX doing this on a fifth freedom basis would spell disaster for CX

- CX already has two daily flights into JFK with a nonstop and a onestop. Would it even be needed right now? Still, JFK-LHR isn't a bad little route authority to hold on to!
 
User avatar
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1958
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:10 am

What about SQ ? Sorry to be off-topic, but was it not in SQ's plans to fly on the lucrative LHR-JFK route ?


FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting PlaneGuy27 (Reply 8):
- CX already has two daily flights into JFK with a nonstop and a onestop. Would it even be needed right now? Still, JFK-LHR isn't a bad little route authority to hold on to!

JFK-LHR wouldn't be started to feed pax from HKG onto JFK....It would exist for NYC-London traffic, of which there is TONS.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
BA380
Topic Author
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 9:59 pm

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:26 am

it would seem to have limited strategic value as a route other than just opportunism -- ie a route with potnetially good loads and good profits. However, who cares if it earns them money. Still. If they can't get slots, it's all a bit academic!
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
richcandy
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2001 4:49 pm

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:02 am

Hi

Pan Am and United both used to have a round the world service.


Rich
 
vincewy
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:32 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:05 am

Didn't I hear earlier that CX couldn't get slots at LHR the time they wanted out of LHR-JFK route? Also mentioned earlier, with such route, CX would require 2 daily slots at LHR, which may be better used with 2 daily LHR-HKG flights at this point.
 
User avatar
fbgdavidson
Posts: 3897
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:25 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:53 am

And for us BA Exec Club folks we can use BA miles to fly CX F to the US East Coast  biggrin 
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
trex8
Posts: 5616
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 5):
Actually I believe China Airlines had a round the world at one point.. correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC that was the case.

that rings a bell, IIRC it was very short lived
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6146
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:29 am

"Tell that to United, who have just halved their schedule to Heathrow - now just daily."

Actually, you should cite BA, AA, and VS, all which have multiple daily widebody service on a mix of 777s, 747s, and A340s. No small planes on that route. AA is 6 daily 777s. I believe BA is 7 daily. VS has 2 or 3 daily.

UA can't seem to make anything work . . . even bankruptcy takes 37 months. But just for the hell of it, UA couldn't make:

BOS DL/AA/B6
SEA DL/AA/B6
DEN B6
S. America DL/AA/Varig/TACA . . .
HKG CX
SJU DL/AA/B6

work out of JFK either. Funny how other airlines can  Smile


PJ
 
Eirules
Posts: 1973
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:17 am

Am I not right in saying that QF also hold rights for LHR-JFK? If so then they would also be able to offer round-the-world service
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 16):
UA can't seem to make anything work

Even lucrative, dense markets have their caps, especially considering all of those airports you listed (sans Denver) are pretty much dominated by airlines other than UA (AA and AS in SEA, AA and DL in BOS, AA in SJU, etc...). Historically, most of UA's main frequent fliers and base have been in the midwest and the west coast (evidenced by their largest hubs @ SFO, DEN and ORD). AA, DL and B6 all have much stronger customer bases on the East Coast, and therefore would have a better chance of making more flights to and from JFK work.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
hz747300
Posts: 2419
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 1):
But in my experience Cathay are never cheap!

I'm looking at booking a trip home in Dec-06 for my wedding in New York and right now they are cheapest option for premium cabins from SYD-JFK with a change in HKG.

I agree with the posters above, if Cathay is able to launch this route and allowed to code share with AA and BA, then they should do it. They would pique enough interest offering round-the-world flights with 3-5 day layovers in some of the world's finest cities.

If they cannot code share, then why bother.
Keep on truckin'...
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:05 am

NZ will hopefully have a new round-the-world route if everything goes to plan in the next couple of months. Plan is AKL-HKG-(Gatwick or Heathrow)-LAX-AKL.

CX would be better using their time and energy elsewhere I think. OW already has LHR-JFK covered.
 
iowa744fan
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:31 pm

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 19):
I'm looking at booking a trip home in Dec-06 for my wedding in New York and right now they are cheapest option for premium cabins from SYD-JFK with a change in HKG.

HZ747300,

If you take CX, are you planning to take 831 nonstop to HKG and then transfer to 101 onto SYD or are you looking at 889 through YVR to HKG and then connecting to 139 to SYD? According to my computer, the first option is two 346s and the second in December of next year is to be a 744 and a 333. According to my computer, 889 gets upgraded to a 744 on 29 Oct. Anyone else get this too?
 
iowa744fan
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:31 pm

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:03 am

Also, I think that CX should go for the LHRJFK route. There is no doubt in my mind that they can get plenty of the high yield traffic on this route with their high quality of service.

Not to get off the thread, but whatever happened to the second daily SFOHKG flight that I thought CX was planning?
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:15 am

I don't doubt CX could find success on this route. AA frequent flyers, prevented from getting credit for flying BA over the Atlantic, and continually dissatisfied with their own airline's subpar business cabin, would probably flock to CX.

Aaron G.
 
MarshalN
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 13):
Didn't I hear earlier that CX couldn't get slots at LHR the time they wanted out of LHR-JFK route? Also mentioned earlier, with such route, CX would require 2 daily slots at LHR, which may be better used with 2 daily LHR-HKG flights at this point.

CX flies to London four times a day already from HKG, I doubt they can up it much beyond the current setup.
 
hz747300
Posts: 2419
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting Iowa744fan (Reply 21):
HZ747300,

If you take CX, are you planning to take 831 nonstop to HKG and then transfer to 101 onto SYD or are you looking at 889 through YVR to HKG and then connecting to 139 to SYD? ...

My plan was to fly the weekend before, 25/11/06, and the appeal of the CX flight was the chance to fly on the A346 direct from HKG to JFK. From SYD to HKG, the later flight in the evening was preferred (10pm-ish), set now as an A333 on Expedia.
Keep on truckin'...
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:48 pm

Quoting CPH757 (Reply 3):

Doesn't SQ fly SIN-FRA-JFK?

I believe this is b/c it gets the 744 and they can carry more pax and cargo
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
changyou
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 10:57 pm

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:12 pm

SQ will be able to offer RTW when they commence SIN-JFK some time this year. Yes...With more A345s which they are gonna lease from somewhere before the 772LR takes over.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:19 pm

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 12):
Pan Am and United both used to have a round the world service.

TW as well.

N
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1518
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

RE: Cathay LHR-JFK

Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:32 pm

Quoting BA380 (Thread starter):
and yet it seems that they haven't taken up that option. Anyone know why? Any plans to start this route?

CX wants to start this, but they can't get the slots at LHR.

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 1):
they would be the first airline to offer a round the world service (correct me if im wrong please!?)

Sorry, but no. PAA was the first, and then several airlines later on joined the "round-the-world club"....TW, QF, BOAC, CI, UA, possibly one or two more that I can't think of right now, eventually all discontinued. UA was the most recent one (and only).

Quoting Carledwards (Reply 1):
The only way it would work is if it was a BA/QF/CX One World code share

Not necessarily. However, I have speculated with my friend at CX that one way CX might get the needed slots at LHR would be to buy them from AA, who could certainly use the cash, and then for AA to codeshare on the CX flight, and thus not lose a frequency, but reduce their capacity a bit.

Quoting CPH757 (Reply 3):
Doesn't SQ fly SIN-FRA-JFK?



Quoting Jakob77 (Reply 4):
yes but the 345 non-stop is SIN - EWR

Jakob77 is quite right...since one flight goes to EWR and the other to JFK, this is technically not a RTW service.

Quoting LeonB1985 (Reply 6):
I am sure I heard somewhere that CX had not taken up this plan due to a lack of slots at suitable times...

Quite right, see above.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 7):
I'm not sure the EU has approved it yet....

I don't THINK EU approval was necessary (I can't remember), but if it was, they got it, because all necessary approvals were granted, it's now just a slots issue @ LHR.

Quoting PlaneGuy27 (Reply 8):
- CX already has two daily flights into JFK with a nonstop and a onestop. Would it even be needed right now?

If they get the LHR slots issue sorted out, I'm not sure what will happen with the one-stop currently over YVR...maybe it would be shifted to be over LHR? CX is also planning a 2nd daily nonstop HKG-JFK for later this year.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 9):
What about SQ ? Sorry to be off-topic, but was it not in SQ's plans to fly on the lucrative LHR-JFK route ?

They do not have traffic rights for this.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 10):
JFK-LHR wouldn't be started to feed pax from HKG onto JFK....It would exist for NYC-London traffic, of which there is TONS.

True, but see above, they might shift HKG-YVR-JFK to be HKG-LHR-JFK, as the local traffic LHR-JFK would be much more lucrative than YVR-JFK.

Quoting EIRules (Reply 17):
Am I not right in saying that QF also hold rights for LHR-JFK?

I don't think they have ANY traffic rights between anywhere in the US and anywhere in Europe; back when QF did RTW, it was routed via Mexico and either NAS or BDA, I can't remember which.

I think I've got all my facts right in my above comments; if not please correct me.
Try a Little VC-10derness

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos