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BoomBoom
Posts: 2459
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:26 am

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 12):
when I was in college in Texas and would fly around on passes, I couldn't believe the number of comments I'd get along the lines of "ooo, wish I could afford to fly United" or "look at Mr. Air Travel Snob flying United." In areas of the country where UA is not well known (and probably areas where it is), UA, probably more than any other airline, has a rep as being the expensive, hoity-toity airline for rich businessmen.

How long ago was this? United service has long been a commodity, flying mostly decrepit, dingy old planes.

Quoting Nkops (Reply 20):
It would seem almost more economic for them just to remove a row of seats, and save on 1 f/a..... just my opinion though

Yup, and give every other row a tinsy-weenisy little more pitch.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
alphascan
Posts: 795
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:04 am

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 38):
While Frontier increased its market share by roughly 25% (17 pts to 21 pts), they also increased system capacity, almost exclusively focused on DEN, by 36%, from 1.816 billion ASM's (4Q03) to 2.462 billion ASM's (4Q05). Frontier also saw RASM decline from 8.26 cents to 7.96 cents over the same periods (both yield and load factor fell slightly)

I have no idea where your numbers are coming from, but here are the accurate numbers as reported by FRNT for the last six reported QTRs....the six full quarters of Ted's existence. The y/y comparisons are positive trends in every category.

RASM Yield LF QTR.
0.0763 0.1106 70.7 Cal 2nd 04
0.0784 0.1074 72.9 Cal 3rd 04
0.0795 0.1041 71.7 Cal 4th 04
0.0846 0.1148 73.6 Cal 1st 05
0.0882 0.1160 78.4 Cal 2nd 05
0.0901 0.1169 77.1 Cal 3rd 05

Calendar 4th Qtr 05 results have not been released by FRNT. There have been preliminary financial numbers released with the December 05 traffic results- FRNT being one of , if not the only, carriers to do so. These preliminary financial numbers leave out certain traffic segments and should not be used to compare with the official financials from previous quarters. The official calendar 4th quarter are due to be released at month's end. The officials are always significantly better than the preliminaries.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
GoAllegheny
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2000 4:48 am

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:55 am

I fly Ted from ORD to FLL or PBI, several times a year. I can't stand the boxed food selection - nothing fresh and very little wholesome, which combined with lousy food selection at ORD terminal 1 means that I have to remember to pack food or go hungry. Otherwise, since I rarely upgrade, I don't really miss first class, although I know other FFs who do. Otherwise, as a big United fan I hope Ted succeeds, even if it is silly name in my view.
 
alphascan
Posts: 795
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:04 am

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting FA4UA (Reply 42):
Additionally if you're a FF on UA, you'll likely choose mainline through one of our closer hubs to your final destination and then TED on that last leg with Economy plus.



Quoting Manta (Reply 48):
Actually, I've seen quite a few other people besides myself do just that. We'll take the morning 777 flight from ORD to DEN and then hop the 1 hour TED flight to LAS. It has gotten more popular with business travelers now as I usually walk with a bunch of people from the arrival gate to the LAS departure gate.

So let me get this straight. FFs and business passengers will avoid a Ted nonstop from ORD to LAS to fly a connecting route through DEN where they have to get on a train to change terminals only to hop on Ted again for a shorter Ted experience? Astounding! Pardon my sarcasm but this is hardly a ringing endorsement of the Ted brand and all the more reason to convert Ted back to mainline. Hardly sounds passenger friendly considering these are the carrier's best customers. How long before they just hop on American at ORD?
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
ScottB
Posts: 6838
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 51):
These preliminary financial numbers leave out certain traffic segments and should not be used to compare with the official financials from previous quarters.

Actually, I was comparing the preliminary traffic numbers in both cases -- precisely because they're not comparable to the financial numbers and because the calendar 4Q05 numbers won't be out for another 3 weeks. I chose calendar 4Q03 precisely because it was the last pre-Ted quarter. If you prefer to compare quarter-over-quarter financials from 2003 to 2005, you get the following:

RASM Yield LF QTR.
0.0745 0.1276 58.4 Cal 1st 03 (Iraq War quarter)
0.0839 0.1169 70.0 Cal 1st 04
0.0846 0.1148 73.6 Cal 1st 05
===============================
0.0826 0.1229 67.2 Cal 2nd 03
0.0763 0.1106 70.7 Cal 2nd 04
0.0882 0.1160 78.4 Cal 2nd 05
===============================
0.0926 0.1209 76.6 Cal 3rd 03
0.0784 0.1074 72.9 Cal 3rd 04
0.0901 0.1169 77.1 Cal 3rd 05
===============================
0.0871 0.1201 72.5 Cal 4th 03
0.0795 0.1041 71.7 Cal 4th 04

We actually see RASM decline year-over year in every quarter of 2004 vs. 2003 except the 1st (and 1Q03 was affected by the Iraq War & DEN blizzard). 3Q05 was weaker than 3Q03 as well, with lower RASM and yield (though a higher LF). Yields in every quarter of 2004 & 2005 are down from 2003, though load factors have fortunately improved.
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 49):
That would have to include seasonal adjustments, and I don't know what United is up to.

Just curious, do you dislike UAL/TED?

You really never seem to have anything good to say about UAL/Ted.

Just curious.
 
Manta
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:06 am

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 53):
So let me get this straight. FFs and business passengers will avoid a Ted nonstop from ORD to LAS to fly a connecting route through DEN where they have to get on a train to change terminals only to hop on Ted again for a shorter Ted experience?

Most of the TED flights from ORD to LAS are sold out by the time I am told I'm going to LAS. It is easier to get a seat on a 777 or 767 going to DEN or LAX first. If I'm going out there for vacation, or booking a month or more in advance, then yeah I'll take the non-stop TED flight. I personally only started doing the stop in DEN when the switch was made to TED. Now I personally don't mind going to DEN, getting a bite to eat, streatching my legs, using the facilities, and getting on another plane for a short hop.
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 55):
You really never seem to have anything good to say about UAL/Ted.

If you check back on my posts for the last three years - since United went into Chapter 11 - you will see that I have been one of its strongest defenders.

Just today, I made a post in defense of United's CEO Tilton and his proposed bonus payment.

You are correct in thinking that I am considerably less enthusiastic about Ted.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Simpilicity
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:21 pm

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:03 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 57):
You are correct in thinking that I am considerably less enthusiastic about Ted.

Gte the impression, that all U.S. majors will become virtually international carriers only soon, with TED etc. doing domestic, which will feed the international. Don't know if UA have got Ted costs right though. They should be at Southwest/Jetblue type costs to compete, don't u think?
 
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United_fan
Posts: 6691
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:13 am

I've flown Ted 5 times since they started. I have to agree with those who say that most in F are upgrades. I've flown UA to LAS on 727,767-300,757 and A320. I too miss flying the 757 , but most pax don't know a 727 from a 777. I tell you that a Y pax like myself would rather fly a Ted A320 with movie and Ch9 than a AA Mad Dog with **nothing!!**
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:14 am

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 58):
Gte the impression, that all U.S. majors will become virtually international carriers only soon, with TED etc. doing domestic, which will feed the international.

There is no "Ted, etc.". Song is being folded back into Delta, Ted is the last of his kind.

To date, all attempts at an airline within an airline have not succeeded, and I am very doubtful that Ted will be an exception.

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 58):
They should be at Southwest/Jetblue type costs to compete, don't u think?

I don't think it is possible to fly the long haul internationals, and provide the premium services, and have Southwest style costs.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
galapagapop
Posts: 863
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:15 pm

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:44 am

Well the thing is the product is the same a UA Y as UA has occasionally been substituting UA flts with TED just to prove that. Now why UAS would squeeze 156 on those A320's is beyond me, for 6 extra seats they are willing to pay for an extra FA? Talk about ruining the numbers. DL did the same approach with Song on ATL-JFK, but there was one huge difference, the product was on an almost godly level in comparison to regualr DL Y. People I know still can't imagine Song is closing as to them they were so high quality and so well known that, that couldn't of happened. But Song is closing. Ted will too eventually.
 
DL727-200adv
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2000 10:23 am

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:45 am

I flew Ted for the first time on a trip from IAD to LAS last week. I am a DL FF, however due to DALPA’s threatening to strike months earlier I had canceled my DL itinerary and booked UA/TED as my need to get to LAS was greater than my loyalty to DL.

Check in at IAD was slow but pretty much as expected for IAD. The UA/Ted IAD counter staff members were average. The Ted A320’s cabins were very clean and appeared well kept. The FO on the outbound flight was very enthusiastic in his pa announcements and hearing him on channel 9 you could tell that he really loves his job, which was very refreshing, compared to DL. The in flight service was adequate & on par with what I’m used to on DL. On the return trip as soon as the aircraft boarded the captain came on the pa and told us that one of the flight management computers was “dead” & that maintenance was looking for a replacement. Maintenance replaced the faulty FMC & we were underway an hour and a half late. I understand MX issues will occur but I don’t know why they had us board an aircraft with a dead FMC to have us sit onboard for an hour and a half while it was replaced rather than delaying the boarding until the part was replaced.

On both the outbound and return flights during cruise the cabin temperature was very warm and there was hardly any airflow from the vents. I would hazard to guess that the temperature was somewhere around 78-80’ F. I’m guessing that UA/Ted’s policy regarding the operation of the 320’s AC packs is to put them into LOW FLOW during cruise. Putting the packs in low flow mode saves fuel I’m sure, however these two flights were the most uncomfortable flights I or my two coworkers had ever experienced due to the sauna like temperatures. People had sweat pouring off them on both these flights and everyone seemed very uncomfortable. On my last DL trip from ATL to OGG via LAX the hours flew by on the DL764 compared to the Ted 320 pressure cookers. In the future I will be helping UA/Ted save on their 320’s fuel burn by my ass and my baggage not flying on their 320s.

DL727-200adv
 
MarshalN
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:48 am

I think people who say Ted is doing very well is sort of missing the point -- the question we should rather ask is if Ted is doing anything that a mainline wouldn't, be it bringing in more customers, generating more profit, etc. Is TED making more money on LAS routes than mainline would? Or not? Nobody here would know (or if they do, they probably can't tell). My suspicion is that TED doesn't do anything that mainline wouldn't.
 
Simpilicity
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:21 pm

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:58 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 60):
They should be at Southwest/Jetblue type costs to compete, don't u think?

I don't think it is possible to fly the long haul internationals, and provide the premium services, and have Southwest style costs.

Ted, not UA INT !!!

Quoting Mariner (Reply 60):
"Ted, etc.".

etc. is Southwest, Jetblue, Virgin America.

Looks like all U.S. majors domestic schedule is reducing, while, Southwest, Jetblue etc. in constantly increasing. Maybe the majors will keep a few strong business routes like ORD/NYC, but can't see them surviving long term domestically, when they're not in chapter 11 protection.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 60):
To date, all attempts at an airline within an airline have not succeeded

so waht do u call all QF divisions? I think Jetstar is reasonably successful ?
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:38 pm

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 64):
so waht do u call all QF divisions? I think Jetstar is reasonably successful ?

Gosh, since you said:

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 58):
Gte the impression, that all U.S. majors will become virtually international carriers only soon,

I thought we were talking about US airlines. I didn't realize we were on shifting sands.

Obviously, my mistake. But at least I know how to spell "you".  Smile

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
mcg
Posts: 1052
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:56 pm

As a UA customer I think Ted is the wrong way to compete. It removes the only thing that differentiates UA from F9, which is the ability to upgrade. It makes no cost reduction and given the discussion about the fourth FA above, might actually result in higher costs. It would seem to make much more sense to me to take six seats off to offer first class and leave the fourth FA behind.

I'd think with the introduction of SW on two TED routes, the need for differentiation would be even greater.
 
Simpilicity
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:21 pm

RE: UA's TED: Great Idea Or A Pain In The...

Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:05 pm

Quoting Mcg (Reply 66):
It would seem to make much more sense to me to take six seats off to offer first class and leave the fourth FA behind.

You'd need to pull out 12 economy seats to put back 4 x 1st class/business seats. Taking out 6 economy & putting back 4 x 1st/business would mean same leg room/seat pitch !!!!

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