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aer lingus
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:41 am

After reading a section in today's Irish Indo. The most interesting piece I saw is that Irish pilots fail to switch on the cabin pressure very common.

What would really happen if the cabin is not pressurised?

Below are some incidents involving Irish airports and airlines from the past few years from the Irish Indo.

June 08 1998: A charter flight approaching ORK had to swerve to avoid a contractor's van on the runway.

October 18 1998: An Aer Lingus A320 (I think that should be an A321, as far as I know EI A320 didn't exist at that time) had problems on approach in DUB due to a hydraulic part failed. The part had remained on the aircraft despite Airbus warnings it could give problems.

October 07 2000: A Ryanair Boeing 737 returned to STN after the crew failed to switch on cabin pressure. A probe blamed the crew for failing to follow a checklist and not using the oxygen masks.

October 29 2000: An Aer Lingus Fokker 50 skidded of the runway in ORK. Wet runway and pilot error was blamed.

December 03 2000: One of the two nose wheel fell off a Ryanair Boeing 737 (Probably an 737-200) about to take off from DUB. Faulty maintenance was blamed.

December 07 2000: An Aer Lingus Boeing 737 made a emergency landing after the the pilots forgot to switch on cabin pressure.

December 09 2000: An Aer Lingus Boeing 737-500 declares Mayday near Paris when the cabin pressure dropped due to a faulty valve.

January 16 2001: An Aer Lingus Boeing 737-500 made a emergency landing after sudden loss of cabin pressure over Wales due to a faulty part (probably a faulty valve).

May 29 2001: An Aer Arann ATR made a emergency landing at ORK when the wing panel came loose due to metal fatigue.

December 02 2001: Two pax and a crew was injured when a Aer Arann ATR42 was hit by turbulence.

September 13 2002: A Ryanair Captain suffered heart failure on take-off and was clinically dead before being revived following emergency landing at CRL. The Captain previously suffered mild hypertension.

September 28 2002: Ryanair crew failed to switch on cabin pressure on a Boeing 737 taking off from DLY to STN.

August 08 2003: An Aer Arann ATR72 made a emergency landing at SNN when one of its engines stopped. The pilots dontt know they are almost out of fuel.

January 26 2004: An Aer Lingus Airbus A 321 suffered a loss of cabin pressure due to maintenance problems.

July 21 2004: An Ryanair Boeing 737 flight lands too fast after a steep decent at NYO due to pilot error.

November 08 2004: Ryanair pilots failed to switch on cabin pressure after take-off from REU.

Almost half of the problems were caused by pilot error.

P.S:To all the pilots who reads this. Is this record of incidents involving Irish airports and airlines a very usual one or a very serious one?
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BestWestern
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:29 am

Considering FR is amongst the largest airlines in Europe, Ireland and its airlines have very very few incidents. But as usual the independent overlooks the fact that in the past 8 years there have been no accidental fatalities. Its such a sensational newspaper.
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EI321
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 1):
in the past 8 years there have been no accidental fatalities. Its such a sensational newspaper.

What was the last one?
 
BestWestern
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:37 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 2):
What was the last one?

I think it was about 10 years ago when a cargo agent was killed at DUB due walking into an active prop propeller.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
Eirjet
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:57 am

Yes I saw the article in the paper aswell.

One incident which came to mind, and you guys can correct me was that of an EI 332 enroute to the US a few years ago (I think), it encountered severe turbulence and it was deemed that it was wake turbulence (or similiar) from an aircraft ahead?

Again, I am not sure of the details, but can anyone confirm this story?

Eirjet
Aviation has a 100% record, we've never left one up there......
 
smokeyrosco
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:10 am

You can look up incidents on the AAIU at http://www.aaiu.ie/ Ryanair and more worryingly RE feature quite a bit.
John Hancock
 
IceTitan447
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:12 am

Makes you want to fly BA or other carriers into Ireland.
 
BestWestern
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 6):
Makes you want to fly BA or other carriers into Ireland.

Off you go. When was the last Irish plane crash?
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
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shamrock350
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:28 am

How many fatal aircrashes have happened with Aer Lingus, was it one?
 
smokeyrosco
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:33 am

as fair as i remember yeah it was one.

actually

Aer Lingus suffered its only air crash in 1968 when a Vickers Viscount aircraft en route from Cork to London crashed near Tuskar Rock in the waters off the south east coast of Ireland. All 57 passengers and four crew perished. The crash is generally known as the Tuskar Rock Air Disaster in Ireland. The cause of the crash is still unknown, with some suggesting that British missile tests were to blame. (An Aer Lingus C-47 Dakota crashed in North Wales, near Cwm Edno in 1957 - with the loss of all on board. The aircraft hit the top of a ridge and crashed into a bog - not all the bodies were recovered)

http://www.answers.com/topic/aer-lingus
John Hancock
 
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shamrock350
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:46 am

Thanks Smokeyrosco! That website is good.
 
Toulouse
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting Aer Lingus (Thread starter):
An Aer Lingus A320

I think EI must did have their first 320's back then, didn't they

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 6):
Makes you want to fly BA or other carriers into Ireland.

A bit of a silly remark IceTitan447. I suggest you get your facts clear before making such statements.

The Irish Independent is, IMO, a spreadsheet slightly serious tabloid full of sensationalism. I have always heard that EI especially, and as Bestwestern pointed out, given the size of FR, Irish airlines have, thankfully, an excellent safety record. Incidents happen all the time, accidents are another thing. I have always heard excellent things about EI's engineering department, no specific source, don't know how true it is, but I've heard only good things about them from foreign sources.

Two years ago I was flying on an EI 320 from Toulouse into DUB on a typical very windy and wet morning in DUB. The pilots had warned us that the final approach would be very bumpy. On that occassion I was sitting beside an aeronautical engineer working for Airbus, a German national, and we had been chatting during the flight. On the bumpy approach he turned and said to me in his very strong German accent: "No problem! You know, in weather conditions like this, I always feel much safer when I'm flying on an..." (here I was expecting him to say an Airbus aircraft, but no he said)... "Irish aircraft with an Irish crew". Then he laughed and did add "well, I suppose they have more opportunities to practise flying in bad weather conditions in real life, outside of simulators, than most pilots... ha ha, Irish weather!". Whenever I fly EI now in bad weather, I always remember this engineer's comments. And you know it may be true, I fly into DUB a lot on a number of carriers, and EI flights always seem to be much smoother despite adverse weather... I know, possible just coincidence. I have had a number of dodgey landings, to say the least, with Iberia in DUB, yet that said, I believe Iberia pilots also have a good reputation.

Basically, look at the safety record, change the title of this thread as it's misleading, and don't read much into the Indo
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
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shamrock350
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 11):
I think EI must did have their first 320's back then, didn't they

I think that was when the A321s were there. I watched a old episode of Airport and it was dated 1998 when the frist A321 landed at Heathrow.
 
aer lingus
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 11):
change the title of this thread as it's misleading

Is forgetting to turn on cabin pressure by the crew an error or a electronic fault?
It is human error that pilots fail to turn on the cabin pressure.
Split Scimitar or Sharklets?
 
Toulouse
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting Aer Lingus (Reply 13):
Is forgetting to turn on cabin pressure by the crew an error or a electronic fault?
It is human error that pilots fail to turn on the cabin pressure.

I have every faith in pilots, and hope that they do their job well. But I suppose, unfortunately errors can happen, as they are only human, just like you and me. Secondly, only 4 of the incidents you list were due to cabin crew forgetting to turn on cabin pressure, and interestingly, 3 of these incidents were on FR. As Bestwestern said, FR is a huge airline, so I suppose statistically more incidents/errors will occur.

I'm sorry Aer Lingus, nothing against you, but I see no point in answering your questions quoted above. The answer is obvious. Still doesn't change my opinion, or the excellent safety statistics of Irish aviation which speak for themselves.

Eddited to add some further thoughts: Aer Lingus, my suggestion to change title was I though something like "Incidents involving Irish aircraft" might be better. How do you know the pilots were Irish? See what I meant? No offence was intended. Secondly, some of these incidnts above such as the FR pilot having a heart-attack, pax being injured during severe turbulence etc are NOT errors made by Irish Pilots or by the pilots whatever their nationality was.

[Edited 2006-01-13 21:15:01]
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
smokeyrosco
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:13 am

I think he means is the cabin pressure not automated on aircraft or is it controlled manually?
John Hancock
 
Toulouse
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 15):
I think he means is the cabin pressure not automated on aircraft or is it controlled manually?

Very true and possible. If so my apologies Aer Lingus for mininterpreting you. I think I'll turn off the computer for the night 'cause I seem to be getting a little grumpy. Sorry!
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
Toulouse
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting Aer Lingus (Reply 13):
Is forgetting to turn on cabin pressure by the crew an error or a electronic fault?
It is human error that pilots fail to turn on the cabin pressure.

To answer your questions now, I've just checked with my beautiful wife, she's the aeronautical engineer in this house!
This is only regarding Airbus a/c, yet she imagines Boeing would be similar (and I think all the above incidents you mentioned occurred on 737's).

There is a switch in the cockpit for manual/automatic. In theory it should always be at automatic (unless the captain decides otherwise for whatever reason). It's on their pre-flight checklist, so if they go through the list correctly, they shouldn't miss it. The cabin pressure is then automatically controlled for the entire flight by 2 cpc's.
The incidents you described above shouldn't be too serious, as the subsequent drop in cabin pressure would be gradual as the plane climbs. An alarm would go off warning the pilots if the cabin is not being pressurised. With a cabin pressure above a certain level, apart from the alarm, pax oxygen masks would automatically drop.
Hope I've remembered all this well... she got quite tehnical. Pilots, engineers out there, feel free to correct anything I've gone wrong on.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
IceTitan447
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:52 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 11):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 6):
Makes you want to fly BA or other carriers into Ireland.

A bit of a silly remark IceTitan447. I suggest you get your facts clear before making such statements.

Get my facts straight? Did he not post accidents by Aer Lingus? It was more of a joke, sorry didn't know the Irish were this sensitive.  ashamed 
 
ltbewr
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:06 am

We are discussing 'incidents' here - not accidents were serious injuries and or accident caused deaths. It would be interesting to see if the rates of similar incidents per 10,000 flights with Rep. of Ireland based airlines is any better or worse than those of other countries or comparable airlines. Perhaps we pay more attention to 2 of the airlines here as they are both pushing LLC pricing and the fear of a connection of low price and operational or mechanical problems.
 
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Navigator
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:00 pm

I am certain that you can find similar lists concerning most other nations pilots. To point out the very professional Irish pilot group is not fair at all and not even correct.
747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
 
darrenthe747
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:04 pm

Quote:
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 18)
Get my facts straight? Did he not post accidents by Aer Lingus? It was more of a joke, sorry didn't know the Irish were this sensitive.

We're not, i knew it was a remark of sarcasm.
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
 
HS748
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:25 pm

To describe FR pilots as Irish is a bit misleading. In my experience most of FR's pilots are from countries where English isn't the first language.
 
Crosscountry
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:40 pm

Quoting Aer Lingus (Thread starter):
August 08 2003: An Aer Arann ATR72 made a emergency landing at SNN when one of its engines stopped. The pilots dontt know they are almost out of fuel.

Wasn't this the cause of the Tuninter crash earlier this year.
Maybe more of an issue with the ATR than the crew?
 
Gofly
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:00 pm

Quoting Crosscountry (Reply 23):
Wasn't this the cause of the Tuninter crash earlier this year.

MX fitted the wrong fuel gauge IIRC. (Am I thinking about the same accident?)

On the other hand.... Look how many accidents Irish Pilots have averted?!   

Seriously though, I'd be surprised if the newspaper knew one end of a 737 from the other. "Incidents" in aviation will happen, and it is the job of the crew to resolve them. To say that Irish crew are any better or worse than others is total Rubbish.

-Gofly  

Edit: Spelllling  Wink

[Edited 2006-01-14 12:26:48]
Living the high life on my ex-Airliners.net Moderator pension...
 
BBJII
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:02 pm

On a lighter note:

Why do Irish Pilots always bounce on landing?

The first landing is to be sure.
The second is: to be sure to be sure..... rotfl 



 wave 
Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
 
Toulouse
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:05 pm

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 18):
Get my facts straight? Did he not post accidents by Aer Lingus? It was more of a joke, sorry didn't know the Irish were this sensitive.

No need to be ashamed IceTitan447... I was 'unusually' grumpy last night. Just to clear up though, he posted about 'incidents' (not accidents) on Irish airlines in general (not just Aer Lingus).

Quoting Navigator (Reply 20):
To point out the very professional Irish pilot group is not fair at all and not even correct.

Totally agree with you Navigator!

Quoting Gofly (Reply 24):
Seriously though, I'd be surprised if the newspaper knew one end of a 737 from the other. "Incidents" in aviation will happen, and it is the job of the crew to resolve them. To say that Irish crew are any better or worse than others is total Rubbish.

Also very well said Gofly.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 19):

Good post also LTBEWR
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
smokeyrosco
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting Gofly (Reply 24):
Quoting Crosscountry (Reply 23):
Wasn't this the cause of the Tuninter crash earlier this year.

MX fitted the wrong fuel gauge IIRC. (Am I thinking about the same accident?)

Yes, they either put a the guage for an ATR72 into an ATR42 or the other way around.
John Hancock
 
IceTitan447
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Incidents On Irish A/c

Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:02 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 26):
Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 18):
Get my facts straight? Did he not post accidents by Aer Lingus? It was more of a joke, sorry didn't know the Irish were this sensitive.

No need to be ashamed IceTitan447... I was 'unusually' grumpy last night. Just to clear up though, he posted about 'incidents' (not accidents) on Irish airlines in general (not just Aer Lingus).

I do however apologize. I am taking EI in April from LHR to DUB. I really didn't mean it like that.
 
VC-10
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RE: Errors Made By Irish Pilots

Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting Aer Lingus (Thread starter):
Irish pilots fail to switch on the cabin pressure very common.

How do you know the nationality of the pilots? The Greek 737 that went down last year wasn't crewed by Greeks
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Incidents On Irish A/c

Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:10 am

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 29):
The Greek 737 that went down last year wasn't crewed by Greeks

I could be wrong but i thought the F/O was greek?
John Hancock
 
diesel1
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RE: Incidents On Irish A/c

Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:58 am

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 29):
How do you know the nationality of the pilots? The Greek 737 that went down last year wasn't crewed by Greeks

No Greek 737 "went down" last year.

A Cypriot 737 did crash. German and Cypriot flight deck crew IIRC.
I don't like signatures...
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Incidents On Irish A/c

Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 31):
A Cypriot 737 did crash. German and Cypriot flight deck crew IIRC.

Thats correct, eep
John Hancock
 
Eirjet
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RE: Incidents On Irish A/c

Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 8):
How many fatal aircrashes have happened with Aer Lingus, was it one?



Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 9):
as fair as i remember yeah it was one.

Am I not correct in thinking that their was Aer Lingus DC-3 crash in the UK, many, many, many years ago?

That would bring it up to two fatal accidents.

Eirjet
Aviation has a 100% record, we've never left one up there......
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Incidents On Irish A/c

Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting Eirjet (Reply 33):
Am I not correct in thinking that their was Aer Lingus DC-3 crash in the UK

You are correct, it's the first I ever heard of it but here you go.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19520110-0
John Hancock
 
BestWestern
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RE: Incidents On Irish A/c

Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:36 pm

Grovelling apology in this mornings Irish Independent. one of the 'incidents' attributed to Aer Lingus wasnt even an Irish aircraft
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
EI321
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RE: Incidents On Irish A/c

Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:29 pm

Quoting Eirjet (Reply 33):
That would bring it up to two fatal accidents.

I think EI may have lost a plane while crew training around the 60s (think it crashed on Co Meath) with the loss of the pilots, not sure about it though.

There was a KLM lockheed constilation crash at SNN in the 50s also.

Wikipedia also lists an EI crash in wales which killed 28 in the 50s or 60s.
 
scarebus03
Posts: 232
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RE: Incidents On Irish A/c

Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:10 pm

Hi all,

the only 2 serious incidents I can find in relation to Aer Lingus are the DC-3 in Birmingham (with no loss of life) and the Tuskar rock tragedy. If anyone can direct me to a substantial link in relation to the Welsh DC-3/C-47 crash I would be grateful as neither the CAA nor IAA websites contain any info.
Two incidents where pilots forgot to switch back on the bleeds after takeoff resulting in no cabin press. and the rest "shit happens"
Ireland has a tremendous amount of aviation activity at all levels for the size of the country and it's population and one of the best safety records out there, long may it continue (without sensationalism in the press on a slow news day)  Smile

Brgds

SB03
No faults found......................
 
EI321
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RE: Incidents On Irish A/c

Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:54 pm

Aer Lingus has had 8 major incidents in its 70 year history, seven accidents which left planes written-off, of which three were fatal, and one hijacking. The last such incident happened in 1986, when a Shorts 360 hit high-tension power lines after rolling.

The Three Fatal EI Accidents:

1
In January 1952, a Douglas DC-3 en route from Northolt to Dublin suffered from extreme turbulence and crashed at Gwynant Lake in Snowdonia killing all 20 passengers and 3 crew on board.

2
A pilot training flight in 1967 left all three crew on board a similar Viscount dead after stalling and spinning in-air near Ashbourne, Co Meath.

3
The Tuskar Rock Crash, cause inknown.

[Edited 2006-01-16 15:11:50]
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8369
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Incidents On Irish A/c

Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 38):
The last such incident happened in 1986, when a Shorts 360 hit high-tension power lines after rolling.

In EMA - my father missed that flight by fifteen minutes, and had a blazing arguement with the Station manager... And ended up saying thank you three weeks later. Was it really 1986?
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
Eirjet
Posts: 317
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RE: Incidents On Irish A/c

Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 38):
Aer Lingus has had 8 major incidents in its 70 year history, seven accidents which left planes written-off, of which three were fatal, and one hijacking.

EI321, what was the hijacking incident?

Eirjet
Aviation has a 100% record, we've never left one up there......
 
EI321
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RE: Incidents On Irish A/c

Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting Eirjet (Reply 40):
EI321, what was the hijacking incident?

Back in 1981, basically some religious nutjob hijacked an EI 732.

On 2nd May, 1981 fifty five year old Western Australian, ex-Trappist Monk Laurence Downey boarded Aer Lingus flight EI 164 from Dublin to London. Five minutes into the flight, Downey went to the toilet, doused himself in petrol and gained access to the cockpit. Cigarette lighter in hand he then demanded that the pilot, Captain Edward Foyle, fly to Tehran, but obviopusly there was not enough fuel onboard, so Foyle diverted to France. Captain Foyle brought the plane down in the tiny airfield at Le Touquet in Northern France where Downey declared his demand that the Pope make public the Third Secret of Fatima. If the secret continued to be withheld he would ignite himself and thereby the plane would explode and all 113 people on board would be blown to Kingdom come.

For eight hours the passengers waited until the Irish Transport Minister, Albert Reynolds, gave permission for French Special Forces to storm the plane. They did so easily and without any injury to anyone. Mr Downey was ultimately tried in San Omer, imprisoned for 5 years and was later deported back to Oz.

[Edited 2006-01-16 16:41:47]

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