AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

AJMIA · Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:06 am

Effective 4/3 American Eagle will replace AA mainline on the LAX-LAS-LAX route.

Currently AA flies 3 daily mainline flights in each direction.

It is sad that AA cannot maintain mainline service in the West, but if the planes can make more money elsewhere I guess it is better to move them.

AJMIA

gigneil · Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:07 am

Its hard to compete with WN and Ted on that route.

N

tinpusher007 · Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 1):
Its hard to compete with WN and Ted on that route.

I'd say WN and US.

BigGSFO · Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 2):
I'd say WN and US.

I'd say just WN. AA could probably hold their own against Ted and US.

PVD757 · Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:20 am

well, it seems there will be a large group of MD80s available for AA to redeploy on 4/3/06. 4 flights to PVD, 4 flights to LGB and 4 flights to HOU are all being down-graded or eliminated on that day.

AJMIA · Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:20 am

I wonder how much of the traffic on the route was local and how much was higher yield connecting? I guess not enough.

ckfred · Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:22 am

I think that LAX-LAS is flown mainly for connecting Pacific traffic, both AA and Oneworld, as well as for overflow for traffic to and from cities east of LAS. My guess is that AA has other routes that the 2 MD-80s and 1 757 can fly that will be more profitable.

zchannel · Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:23 am

That's too bad. I enjoyed flying the occasional 757 to LAS from LAX. At least I can still accrue miles on AA flying the route with American Eagle, it just won't be mainline service.

Question: Is that route a holdover from one of AA's acquisitions or did they open that route all on their own?

rwsea · Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:31 am

I have to say, I flew SFO-LAX on AA a week or two ago. I got confirmed on an earlier flight, which left around 6pm and was 40% full. The original flight I was on was also about 40% full. I don't know how AA can be doing very well on these flights, unless the yields are really high.

I know that LAX-Bay Area flights have huge demand, but does AA really need to be competing on these flights given that UA is connecting two hubs (LAX and SFO), and WN has substantial operations in both cities as well?

I could see AA keeping one flight a day to connect to Hawaii, but all these frequencies seem like overkill for them.

AA can't seem to find their niche in the west - after the closing of past QQ routes and the San Jose hub.

[Edited 2006-01-13 20:34:03]

vegasplanes · Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:38 am

The LAS-LAX flights were useful to connect to/from AA flights to JFK, LHR, and the pacific. LAX is a much easier airport to connect with AA in vs. DFW and ORD. AA Eagle used to run the flights from LAS-LAX in the mid-1990's, before the Reno Air deal. We shall see if AA keeps running the 1 x daily to SJC from LAS. Seems like that will be cut as well due to AA having even less possible connections out of SJC than they have from LAX.

ckfred · Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:39 am

Quoting ZChannel (Reply 7):
Question: Is that route a holdover from one of AA's acquisitions or did they open that route all on their own?

Eagle used to fly the route prior to AA's merger with QQ. After the merger, it was strictly mainline. I think it was pretty much MD-80s, although some QQ MD-90s may have also flown the route. The 757s were put on the route only in the last year or so, IIRC.

BigGSFO · Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 9):
We shall see if AA keeps running the 1 x daily to SJC from LAS.

This flight is one of the last SJCNRT feeder flights. I can't imagine it's a huge money maker for AA but they keep it around anyway. Who knows.

Will LAXLAS be served with Saabs or Jungle Jets?

Av8trxx · Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 11):
Will LAX-LAS be served with Saabs or Jungle Jets?

The Jungle Jet

leelaw · Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
I could see AA keeping one flight a day to connect to Hawaii, but all these frequencies seem like overkill for them.

I formerly flew AA KOA/LAX/LAS frequently in the past (the LAX/LAS segments usually had full loads), but Ted/UA offer multiple frequencies via LAX and SFO and the only widebody service option to KOA via SFO.

Trvlr · Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:33 am

The topic scared me for a moment--I've used the LAX-LAS flight a number of times, and it's a good mileage run for me (living in SAN). At least it'll stay on as Eagle, though that means an annoying trip to the remote terminal.

Just anecdotally, I remember that most of the times I've flown LAX-LAS the flight has been crowded with what I can only assume is connecting oneworld passengers. I got a very welcome op-up on a LAX-LAS flight once because coach was filled with Aussie pax connecting from the morning inbound Qantas flights.

Aaron G.

as739x · Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:49 am

PVD757....agreed. Can you say redeployed to a smaller Dallas area airport? Going to be a lot of lawn darts mixed in with those blue and orange planes.

ASLAX

vegasplanes · Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting Trvlr (Reply 14):
I remember that most of the times I've flown LAX-LAS the flight has been crowded with what I can only assume is connecting oneworld passengers

Exactly, that is why I am wondering why would they downgrade the LAS-LAX route to Eagle, the planes are not going out empty or filled with $ 39 each way fares. Now I could see AA going to 2 x daily with MD-80's and canceling the 757 flight to improve yields/loads, but going to Eagle will not help with yields. How much flexibility can AA gain from canceling (six) one-hour segments ?

LAXintl · Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 16):
How much flexibility can AA gain from canceling (six) one-hour segments ?

Lets see;
AA MD80 operating hourly cost per DOT Form41 data is $2,704, while the B757 is $3,867, and the AE ERJ comes in at $1,113.
Quite a significant savings once multipled over a long period.

Face it, LAX-LAS does not perse have any importance in the greater AA network and basically only operates to provide some minor feed at LAX and OW partners.
AA clearly is not looking to be player between LA and Vegas especialy since the market is very well served by SWA, US Air and United.

RL757PVD · Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:27 am

With all these chanes comming for 4/3/06 (PVD HOU LGB, plus rumored BOS and BDL downgrades) I smell a major AA sched overhaul comming soon. Prombably this weekend or next id imagine.

AJMIA · Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:57 am

Supposedly a lot of new routes are going to be announced for the spring. That is the best part because the news of all these service reductions really blows, but as long as the planes are not being parked (and they are not), they will have to be redeployed.

It would have been nice if the LAX-LAS frequency was increased with the smaller Eagle aircraft. I would be less upset if three mainline were swapped out for six RJs.

I believe Miami is going to be getting some of these new flights that will be announced shortly. AA is very gate constrained with the new terminal, but they are making plans to use two hardstand parking areas in the interim while they wait for more gates to come online.

The construction team of Parsons Utebrecht now has the contract for the North Terminal. They have almost completed the new South Terminal, so hopefully things will be progressing again soon.

AJMIA

PRAirbus · Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:05 am

Not surprised...AA can use those planes somewhere else, especially the 757s are too big for that hop. Besides, as mentioned earlier, they cannot compete w/the LCC's on that market. LAS is a leisure market, low fares, low yields.

Tornado82 · Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 4):

well, it seems there will be a large group of MD80s available for AA to redeploy on 4/3/06. 4 flights to PVD, 4 flights to LGB and 4 flights to HOU are all being down-graded or eliminated on that day.

...and PIT which was just downgraded to CR7's a few weeks ago too.

AJMIA · Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
...and PIT which was just downgraded to CR7's a few weeks ago too

And the DFW-LIM 757...

An early MIA-LAS flight would be nice to compliment the 1430 and 2030 departures....
Wishful thinking crossfingers

AJMIA

CentPIT · Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
...and PIT which was just downgraded to CR7's a few weeks ago too.

I think if US would have announced the discontinuation of PIT-DFW before AA mainline did, then I think PIT-DFW would at least still have 1 MD-80 daily. The route is currently under-served.

MAH4546 · Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:57 am

The S80s will be moved to Dallas, freeing up for 738s for an expansion of MIA domestic service in APril, or at least thats is the rumour. We'll see....

N1120A · Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:59 am

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 6):
I think that LAX-LAS is flown mainly for connecting Pacific traffic, both AA and Oneworld, as well as for overflow for traffic to and from cities east of LAS. My guess is that AA has other routes that the 2 MD-80s and 1 757 can fly that will be more profitable.

While those flights were partially for connecting traffic (and think of how many connecting chances they had to make those flights work: JL, QF, EI, BA, AA from Hawai'i) another reason for the routes is the massive amount of O&D between Los Angeles and Las Vegas. I can see this pissing off a lot of corporate FFers who travel frequently, or commute between the two cities.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 17):
AA clearly is not looking to be player between LA and Vegas especialy since the market is very well served by SWA, US Air and United.

I think AA is showing that they are clearly no longer committed to the LAX market if they are giving up on the number 2 route from the area

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 20):
AA can use those planes somewhere else, especially the 757s are too big for that hop.

Tell HP/US that

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 20):
LAS is a leisure market, low fares, low yields

Which is of course why everyone flies there, flies their frequently and with big planes sarcastic

AJMIA · Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 23):
I think if US would have announced the discontinuation of PIT-DFW before AA mainline did, then I think PIT-DFW would at least still have 1 MD-80 daily. The route is currently under-served.

MAYBE... But it would have to be a very profitable flight to keep an AA station open for just one flight.

IMHO most small AA stations are either going to grow or go all Eagle, but I don't think the majority of them are going to remain small AA stations.

AJMIA

CentPIT · Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 26):
IMHO most small AA stations are either going to grow or go all Eagle, but I don't think the majority of them are going to remain small AA stations.

Well do you expect PIT-DFW to gain frequency? What about PIT-MIA?

MAH4546 · Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 23):

I think if US would have announced the discontinuation of PIT-DFW before AA mainline did, then I think PIT-DFW would at least still have 1 MD-80 daily.

No, they wouldn't have. It was discontinued because AA had too many mainline employees at PIT for such a small mainline station and it was not cost effective. Even though the S80s could fill to Dallas, they needed to make PIT an Eagle station to cut labour costs. Same with Providence, Cleveland, etc., and, soon, Memphis.

king · Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:28 am

American Eagle used to run A Saab 340 B from DFW to AMA to FMN to LAS to LAX.

It used to just be AE on the LAS-LAX run before AA's purchase of Reno Air.

RL757PVD · Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:40 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
No, they wouldn't have. It was discontinued because AA had too many mainline employees at PIT for such a small mainline station and it was not cost effective.

This is a question im sure MAH would know the answer to...

What is the policy on mainline flights at eagle stations?

Ive been looking at XNA for work and noticed how they are an eagle station yet operate 4 mainline flight per day. To me this could signal in the future that stations like PVD MEM and CLE could see a mainline DFW return with other services being eagle, and while being an eagle station

What is AA's policy on mainline flights at eagle stations?

MAH4546 · Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:44 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 30):
This is a question im sure MAH would know the answer to...

What is the policy on mainline flights at eagle stations?

I don't know the exact answer, but I believe most mainly Eagle stations that have one or two mainline flights are outsourced. Executive Airlines (ATR ops) stations can handle mainline flights (i.e. STX is an Executive station that handles the daily 738 to MIA), but I don't think Eagle-only AA-employed stations, like CVG, CLE, PIT, and PVD, can.

socalfive · Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 2):
I'd say WN and US

Yes, and don't forget, a VERY short ride down the 405 and you can take Jetblue to LAS from LGB three tiimes a day.

boeingfanyyz · Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:03 am

How long of a flight is it anyways? Seems like a pretty darn short route to me!
Cheers,
Boeingfanyyz airplane

N1120A · Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting Boeingfanyyz (Reply 33):
How long of a flight is it anyways? Seems like a pretty darn short route to me!

You are in the air for about 45-50 minutes

gigneil · Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
Which is of course why everyone flies there, flies their frequently and with big planes sarcastic

United obviously didn't get that message.

N

N1120A · Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 35):
United obviously didn't get that message.

LAX: 7x per day, A320
SFO: 8x per day, A320
DEN: 8x per day, A320
ORD: 7x per day, A320
IAD: 3x per day, A320

md90fan · Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting Av8trxx (Reply 12):
The Jungle Jet

I'd never thought id see the day come where an AA mainline jet turns into a AE Jungle jet on LAX-LAS. BTW what is wrong with them? Why do the keep cutting routes? Aircraft? Don't they have a few MD-80's at Roswell stored?

HPLASOps · Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 20):
AA can use those planes somewhere else, especially the 757s are too big for that hop.

Tell HP/US that

Somebody did, we no longer fly the 757s LAS-LAX. We haven't for about 4 or 5 months now.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 37):
I'd never thought id see the day come where an AA mainline jet turns into a AE Jungle jet on LAX-LAS

Apparently I haven't been a member long enough - which aircraft are the jungle jets?

N1120A · Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:03 am

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 38):
Somebody did, we no longer fly the 757s LAS-LAX. We haven't for about 4 or 5 months now.

That is because of the new Hawai'i flights and the need for the 757's range there. HP flew the 757 on LAS-LAX and PHX-LAX for years and filled them.

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 38):
Apparently I haven't been a member long enough - which aircraft are the jungle jets?

Embraer Regional Jets. ERJ135/140/145

aussie747 · Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:08 am

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 6):
I think that LAX-LAS is flown mainly for connecting Pacific traffic, both AA and Oneworld, as well as for overflow for traffic to and from cities east of LAS

Be that as it may but those AA flights never connect well with all those QF 744's arriving or departing at LAX.

The first flights from LAX to LAS left at 7.50am,2.25.pm and 7.01pm. The only flight available for QF connecting pasengers is the 2.25pm flight however that meant waiting for 7.5 hours to 4 hours for this flight given what time the QF flights arrived.

Similarly on the return the AA flights from LAS left at 8.10am 3.10pm and 4.32pm. Here only the 8.10am flight would connect with the qf8 flight that departed only 4 days of the week. Even the 4.32 pm flight still has passengers waiting in LAX between 4 to 6.5hours while waiting for their flights to Australia / New zealand.

Qantas through it's fares now mostly use America West to feed through it's passengers to LAS now.

I do not know how welll those AA flights connect with other One World carriers

FCYTravis · Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:30 am

US has:

11x LAS-LAX
1x LAS-BUR (really weirdly timed CRJ, doesn't connect with the red-eye bank)
3x LAS-ONT
6x LAS-SNA
6x LAS-SAN
1x LAS-SBA
1x LAS-PSP

I'm sure Southwest has eleventy jillion more.

So yeah, there's lots of O&D traffic - but the market is beyond saturated, too.

spyglass · Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:31 am

The Wright flap has in a way been a plausible method for AA to do a lot of things they couldn't have gotten by with, at least tactfully. Now it can be said that a major reshuffling is necessary....will allow a lot of small stations to be dropped and many de-unionized (moved to MQ while keeping some mainline svcs) and downsizing other routes. The likely upshot of all this is a way to retire the A300's. That's a lot of pax and cargo capacity, nearly all to Latin America, and as AA is in no position to order new metal, something wd have to replace them (34 left). That would take a lot of 75's, a few 76's and probably a few long-belly 80's or 73's, all of which are now in kinda short supply. The Airbuses are oddballs in the fleet and disproportionately expensive to maintain and operate. So there are likely to be some minor earthquakes at AA and affiliates in the next several months. Hopefully it will go somewhat smoothly, but when it's happened in the past.....well...fingers are crossed.

AJMIA · Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:38 am

Quoting Spyglass (Reply 42):
The likely upshot of all this is a way to retire the A300's.

Hmmmmm I would be surprised if the A300s were to be retired any time soon. They could never replace the cargo capacity of those beasts with anything in the current fleet.

Over the holidays AA had to work out a deal with the pilots so they could charter cargo flights to bring excess bags to Central/South American and the Caribbean.

AJMIA

MAH4546 · Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:51 am

Quoting Spyglass (Reply 42):
The likely upshot of all this is a way to retire the A300's

No, it is not the likely upshot. The A300s are staying for a while longer. AA is in financially healthy enough a condition to order new planes, but they are fiscally conservative, and won't, even though they are taking delivery of two brand new 777s this year.

iowaman · Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:07 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 41):
So yeah, there's lots of O&D traffic - but the market is beyond saturated, too.

Even though yields are crap, you'd be surprised at how full those planes are.

md90fan · Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:29 pm

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 38):
Apparently I haven't been a member long enough - which aircraft are the jungle jets?

Embraer Regional Jets a regional jet family made in Brazil (and now China) consisting of the ERJ-135/140/145/145
and ERJ-145XR

kevin752 · Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:39 pm

Some how I knew this would happen one day. Well as long as AA can make money using these MD80's and the single 757 on this route somewhere else then it is worth while. Well everyone thank you for the info I may have found this out the hard way.

Kevin752

Bridogger6 · Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:41 pm

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 38):
Somebody did, we no longer fly the 757s LAS-LAX. We haven't for about 4 or 5 months now.

Actually just flew HP/US to LAXPHX tonight and the plane parked at the gate next door going to LAS was a matching 757 to our plane... so maybe this is just for tonight or maybe theyre bringing the 757 back to the route, not sure but it was there tonight.

KA501 · Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:05 pm

Am booked on AA1186 LAS-LAS towards the end of March!

Its still in the system as an MD80 and bookable?

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