flyibaby
Posts: 719
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:23 am

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:34 pm

If the current contract the ramp agents have with their TWU union and AA is still the same since '99, then AA only has to go down to 6 mainline flights a day before they can either outsource their operation or make it an AE station. I believe that RNO might be a good example of this as they just became fully handled by a company called AirServ.
 
FCYTravis
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:21 am

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:23 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 45):
Even though yields are crap, you'd be surprised at how full those planes are.

Not surprised at all... I fly HP/US through the LAS red-eye hub regularly and it's ALWAYS jam-packed with people. Plus a fringe benefit of the crap yields is that it's easy to snag elite upgrades  Smile
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
AJMIA
Topic Author
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:29 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:12 pm

Quoting KA501 (Reply 49):
Its still in the system as an MD80 and bookable?

Yes but if you go into Sabre and check the authorization level for flights 4/3 and beyond you will see it is down to 45Y with no F class. It will probably be updated with the Sabre load on Sunday.

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
EXMEMWIDGET
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:25 am

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
Even though the S80s could fill to Dallas, they needed to make PIT an Eagle station to cut labour costs. Same with Providence, Cleveland, etc., and, soon, Memphis

Is MEM going to an all Eagle schedule soon or is it just the staffing that will become all Eagle?
Ex DL and NW, current FX.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25917
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting EXMEMWIDGET (Reply 53):
Is MEM going to an all Eagle schedule soon or is it just the staffing that will become all Eagle?

When the staffing goes all-Eagle, so must the flights. So, yes, MEM will likely be losing AA mainline this year. However, it isn't set in stone. CMH was supposed to lose mainline, but they were able to cut costs at CMH enough to keep it.
a.
 
vegasplanes
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:22 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 50):
If the current contract the ramp agents have with their TWU union and AA is still the same since '99, then AA only has to go down to 6 mainline flights a day before they can either outsource their operation or make it an AE station

If AA decided to cut LAS to just 6 mainline flights a day and put the rest on AE, they might as well just close the station all together. They currently fly:

DFW x 10 all 757's
LAX x 3 1 757, 2 MD-80
MIA x 2 757's
SJC x 1 MD-80
ORD x 5 1 757 4 MD-80
STL x 2 757 's

Or 23 mainline flights a day, even with LAX reduction to AE they will have 20 mainline a day.
 
tzsfo
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2002 2:07 am

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:34 am

Also folks...

Let's not forget how gate constrained we (AA) are at LAX. Pulling these flights over to eagle opens up some much needed gate space for further expansion out of LAX.

-tzSFO
It takes nerves of steel to stay neurotic. — Herb Kelleher
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:49 am

What are the other STL AA 757 routes? Im worried bout the SJC-LAS flight
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1743
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:23 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 57):
What are the other STL AA 757 routes? Im worried bout the SJC-LAS flight

LAX (1), MCO (1), LAS (2), ORD (3), DFW (4), MIA (2) for 13 daily flights.

The SJC-LAS flight exists for the Japanese tourists, IIRC.
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2264
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:32 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 58):
The SJC-LAS flight exists for the Japanese tourists, IIRC.

Yes, this flight feeds SJCNRT.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26527
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:39 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 59):
Quoting LambertMan (Reply 58):
The SJC-LAS flight exists for the Japanese tourists, IIRC.

Yes, this flight feeds SJCNRT.

Same as the NW LAX-LAS service.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ckfred
Posts: 5165
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:51 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 17):
AA MD80 operating hourly cost per DOT Form41 data is $2,704, while the B757 is $3,867, and the AE ERJ comes in at $1,113.
Quite a significant savings once multipled over a long period.

This is one of my gripes about AA switching routes over to Eagle. If you take the hourly cost and divide by the total seats, then you get the following:

MD-80: $19.88 per seat, per hour
757: $20.57 per seat, per hour
E140: $25.29 per seat, per hour
E145: $22.26 per seat, per hour

Flying Embrears on routes that don't have LCC competition make sense, because AA can charge a higher fare. But flying Embrears on routes that compete with the likes of WN and B6 makes no sense, because the cost per seat is higher than a mainline narrowbody.

If a route does have enough traffic to support mainline service, then switching to Eagle makes sense. But if MD-80s and 757s run full, then the routes to which the mainline aircraft are moved must be very profitable, to make up for the thinner margins on the old routes taken over by Eagle.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24003
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:04 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 61):
If a route does have enough traffic to support mainline service, then switching to Eagle makes sense. But if MD-80s and 757s run full, then the routes to which the mainline aircraft are moved must be very profitable, to make up for the thinner margins on the old routes taken over by Eagle.

By switching to AE, AA basically gets out of the LAX-LAS O&D market except for those diehard AA fliers, while still retaining some connectivity for itself and OW partners and can likely justify the route cost better.

Keep in mind the LAX-LAS route pretty much is meaningless in the greater scheme of the AA network. If the airline can move aircraft to save cost, or better utilize them over a cut throat market like SoCal-Vegas, great decision.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
N1120A
Posts: 26527
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 62):
Keep in mind the LAX-LAS route pretty much is meaningless in the greater scheme of the AA network. If the airline can move aircraft to save cost, or better utilize them over a cut throat market like SoCal-Vegas, great decision.

The thing is, AA and its supporters have been screaming aloud about some sort of commitment to growing the LAX market, yet they pull stuff like this.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
F9Fan
Posts: 531
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:42 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:04 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 41):
I'm sure Southwest has eleventy jillion more.

For the record, WN operates the following frequencies to California

BUR 13x
LAX 14x
OAK 14x
ONT 10x
RNO 13x (Yes, I know that is in Nevada, but RNO does serve Lake Tahoe in California)
SMF 7x
SAN 15x
SJC 7x

I am not counting direct flights, or connecting service, which threw out about half the flights to SMF.

F9Fan
 
N1120A
Posts: 26527
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:18 pm

Quoting F9fan (Reply 64):

You left out 4x to SNA
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 60):
Same as the NW LAX-LAS service.

Didnt they used to serve LAX-SNA? What's WN and HP's market share in LAS-LAX respectively?
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
AJMIA
Topic Author
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:29 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:37 am

New LAX-LAS-LAX schedules are now loaded.

Eagle RJs will be 4x daily. Up one from the 3x daily current mainline schedule.

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26527
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 66):
What's WN and HP's market share in LAS-LAX respectively?

Well, WN operates ~1800 seats a day in each direction with 12-14 fpd, United ~1000 with 6-7 fpd and HP/US have a bit over 2000 on 15-17 fpd. Remember, that is just into LAX, WN has the larger market from the other airports.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:08 pm

Where are they getting these -140s from? What routes are being cut to accommodate this flying? Any routes getting upgrades?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26527
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:11 pm

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 69):
Where are they getting these -140s from? What routes are being cut to accommodate this flying? Any routes getting upgrades?

Well, I know BOS-YUL is going away. That could cover this rather easily
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
vegasplanes
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:22 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 62):
By switching to AE, AA basically gets out of the LAX-LAS O&D market except for those diehard AA fliers, while still retaining some connectivity for itself and OW partners and can likely justify the route cost better.

Keep in mind the LAX-LAS route pretty much is meaningless in the greater scheme of the AA network. If the airline can move aircraft to save cost, or better utilize them over a cut throat market like SoCal-Vegas, great decision.

I tend to disagree with you on this one, AA is/was flying mainline on LAS-LAX for the premium service (first class) that AA offers. Read: OW connections to SYD, NRT, etc. AA connections to JFK, BOS, LHR, HA flights. The trans-cons to the east coast and vice versa are much better (Flagship 3 class service) to/from LAX than through any of the Midwest hubs, easy customs clearance for the LHR flights, not to mention the convenience of being only a hour flight from home when getting back to the US vs. 2 hours + from any other hub. LAX is also the easiest place to connect if flying AA, all gates in one easy to navigate terminal, complete with a Chili's, one of the nicer terminals at LAX. Connections to HA, do they expect people to fly back to DFW to catch a flight to the islands. AA might be shooting themselves in the foot on this one, AE has no first class to purchase or upgrade to. The revenue derived from a few premium ticket passengers connecting in LAX could make the flight profitable for AA.

As for AA competiting in the LAS-LAX O/D market, I would think that except for the "diehard AA fliers" that you mentioned, not many are flying AA O/D to/from LAX. They only have 3 daily flights, compared to 14 on WN, 6-7 on UA, and 15-17 on HP/US as mentioned above. They do not have frequency, they do not have price, current for tomorrow day trip:

AA $ 238.60
WN 238.60
HP 238.60
UA 238.61

For same day trip on 02/25/06

AA $ 148.60
WN 118.60
HP 98.60
UA 98.60

AA competes on the next-day flights well, except their frequency is not to par with the competitors. As for booking a flight thirty days out, they are the most expensive by a significant margin, 25 % to 60 % higher than the competition. This signals to me that AA is not interested in competiting on the LAS-LAX run, they fly it for the connections. We shall see what happens with the flight in time.

A little off topic, has anyone else noticed that WN has been steadily upping the lowest price always available on their short hops, ex. LAS-PHX, BUR, SAN are the routes I notice the most. But if you subscribe to "Ding" I have been seeing the same flights for $ 34-39 each way, or something like $ 85 with tax and all. Is WN trying to keep their lowest fares under-wraps from the competition? Or is this a brilliant revenue management tool, if anyone else pays attention, the cheap flights have been showing up as use by the end of January, some are going through February. WN trying to maximize revenue from the early bookers who might not wait long enough to get a cheap Ding fare on the flights. My two cents.
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1743
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:31 pm

Mark (MAH), can you nose around and find out when the spring/summer schedules will be finalized? AA has done most things pretty much like clockwork in the past as far as when they put out their winter/summer final scheds. This year they were a few weeks behind with the winter timetable looks like spring/summer too?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25917
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA To Suspend LAX-LAS

Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:00 pm

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 72):
Mark (MAH), can you nose around and find out when the spring/summer schedules will be finalized? AA has done most things pretty much like clockwork in the past as far as when they put out their winter/summer final scheds. This year they were a few weeks behind with the winter timetable looks like spring/summer too?

The discontinued services are being pulled out, as you've noticed, right now. The new routes should start appearing at month's end, hopefully. The first ones will likely launch the first week of May.
a.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 757236, Andy33, AsiaTravel, avi8, Baidu [Spider], Buddys747, changyou, downtown273, eamondzhang, EIDL, flyiguy, Flyscot, garpd, Gemuser, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], jasoncrh, kengo, marcelh, Melb94, metroline2006, myki, QF64, RyanairGuru, sahaair707, scbriml, SRGVA67, StinkyPinky, timpdx, ual757klas and 435 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos