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HT
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:10 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
Quoting HT (Reply 2):

No need to comply. There is no legal base to it.

If it's a US-based airline, they may just call it "air rage" no matter how calmly you refuse and have you arrested upon landing.

&

Quoting Skyhigh (Thread starter):
daytime flight from Shanghai to London

So, the incident in question apparently was NOT an US-based airline. I don´t recall any US-based airline flying PVG-LON ...

And for those A.netters that pointed out, that it is "required to comply with crew instruction":
I agree, that crew instructions need to be followed (even though these famous words are only adressed over the PA by U.S. airlines), however these instructions should be limited to safety&security of the whole flight (a/c, crew, pax, people on the ground). Still I can´t see any safety/security risk in not shutting the window shutters ...
Q: Is there ANY airline out there, that has a written procedure requirering to shut the window shutters on daylight flights or on night flights ending in daylight ?

Sofar, I´ve only been "asked" to close the shutter on night flights out of courtesy to fellow pax wanting to sleep, which I usually encountered with "I´ll make sure that it will be shut as soon as it dawns outside; until then there will be difference in lighting levels" and had no problems thereafter.
Also: Having the shutter open at night flying over the Canada or northern Atlantic Ocean so far has been my only chance to watch polar lights (actually I had to use my blanket as a shield to blockout the light from the cabin) - get a north facing window seat for this unique experience !!

The other way round, when it is required to have the window shutters open during any movement on the ground, usually is no problem at all.

To my knowledge, the only airport that did require any a/c landing there to keep shutter shut, is one of these military islands between Hawaii and Guam on which the U.S. disposes-off (some of) their chemical wapons. This island is (was) one stop on Continental Micronesia´s multi-stop flight from HNL to GUM.
I´m unsure of the islands name, but "Johnston Atoll" comes to my mind, which is supported by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnston_Atoll (seems to be closed now).

Quoting SU (Reply 40):
On my flight from FRA to SFO on UA in first class after the meal svs F/A went around and closed all the shutters. I told her she can close all of mine but one (in united first you have about 3-4 windows) and she said that it's their policy to close all the shutter (i knew she was just making that up). After I told her no she said that FAA regulations are to close them (also not true) and also passengers would like to sleep and etc. She pissed me off so bad that I asked for a purser and end up with all my three windows open.

Good action !
Crew and airlines need to get knowledge of the limits that will be accepted by paying (!) pax, whose monetary contributions cater for the F/A´s monthly income !
When the first underground rail line was opened in the 19th century in London, the first carriages had no windows at all, at from the operators point of view it was "it is dark in the tunnel, so I do not have topsned money on windows; wood is cheaper". However, passengers revolted and windows were installed.
This story transferred to todays airlines, airlines could save a lot of money if they would eliminate all windows in the cabin (cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain; no extra costs upon conversion to a freigther) Big grin
Btw, wasn´t Boeing´s Sonic Cruiser designed (almost) without windows in the cabin ?
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:19 am

If we remember correctly, the L-1011 had these polarizing types of windows when it first came out. It wasn't long before those systems were torn out and conventional window shades installed....

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 34):
non-compliance of directives issued by the Cabin Crew is a Federal Offense.

Is a "catch all" that gives them the over all authority to tell you what to do, when they want you to do it. It gives them the right to get nasty too and you have no recourse.

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 38):
Would threatening the F/A with a formal complaint make them go away?

Maybe, but then you could simply ask them for their name and who they report to. But then after this you could most certainly expect to get "maximum attitude" from the F/A for the rest of the flight!

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
suggested that pax would have control I assume that the crew can override it and 'switch your window off' whether you like it or not

I can see this being used like Ch 9 on UA. Sometimes it will be on and sometimes it'll be off and in the inflight magazine there will be a fine print notice "Please note that the use of the windows at each seat will be at the discretion of your flight crew"
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
LX23
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:30 am

I've never had that done to me, but I guess I would try the blanket trick if it came down to it. However, depending on how much of a hard-ass the F/A was (and ridiculous situation, such as my window not being the only one open), I'd either ask her for her name so I could send a letter of complaint about him/her (the "mature" option), or simply keep ordering coke/water etc every 10 minutes  Silly
 
incitatus
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting SU (Reply 37):
If someone is bothered by the sun and is not able to sleep, that person can always buy eye shades for $5. Every Airport news stand sells them.

Wrong. Not everybody can sleep with a mask.

Quoting SU (Reply 37):
boy I had couple of bed incidents when I actually had to ask for the purser after flying business class or first class and F/A insisted on closing the shutter.

Very inconsiderate, especially around people who are mostly travelling for work.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
incitatus
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting HT (Reply 50):
Crew and airlines need to get knowledge of the limits that will be accepted by paying (!) pax, whose monetary contributions cater for the F/A´s monthly income !

Leaving your shutter up while most other shutters are down is as bad as bringing a loud boombox into the cabin. Do you realize your fellow passengers also paid for their fare, so paying for your own doesn't entitle you to being obnoxious?
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
kevin
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:28 am

Flight attendants do insist on you closing that damn window and going to sleep, cause they will have less work to do. with most of pax being asleep.
 
slashd0t
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:38 am

Technically, the airline owns the plane so they can do as they wish the with window shade. On a side note, I like Westjet because their 737's don't have a window shade, so, you have no choice but to have it open Big grin

On most airlines, just say you suffer from motion sickness and need to be able to look outside in order to not toss your lunch .. I will often get motion sick if i'm in the isle seat and can't look out the window then the plane is banking or in turbulance.. It helps keeps me balanced and not feel like we are rolling all over the place.. (like when you're drunk laying in bed at night and have to keep a foot on the floor to keep the room from spinning  Wink )
/.
 
Luniew
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:38 am

That kind of incident never happened to me but if it did:
I would just say that Im claustrophobic and I will get a panic attack if I have to close the shutter. This might work as long as its daytime.

Tom
 
su
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 53):
Very inconsiderate, especially around people who are mostly travelling for work.

Inconsiderate to whom? I am the same paying business traveler who paid $4000 for a day flight from Europe to US and can not stand to seat in the dark. In fact I am better off staying up as when arriving you have an evening and night ahead of you. When traveling back from US to Europe it's a different story.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 53):
Not everybody can sleep with a mask

Exactly but again not everyone can travel with their shutters closed either. That's why you get a window seat or avoid a window seat and you always get eyeshades for your "privacy".

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 54):
Leaving your shutter up while most other shutters are down is as bad as bringing a loud boombox into the cabin. Do you realize your fellow passengers also paid for their fare, so paying for your own doesn't entitle you to being obnoxious?

This is really argumentative topic. Have you ever traveled to US in the first or last row behind or before the galley where no curtains exist? Sometime the light from the galley can be more bothersome than a bright sun from outside, but you will never tell F/A to turn the lights down, right? Or sometime the bright screen of PVT in next seat or passenger's overhead light next to you bothers more then again the light from outside. Do you tell that passenger to turn the light or PVT off? Yeah, I dare you.
"Life is too short to take it serious..."
 
SCEagle
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting Tbird (Reply 27):
If you paid for a window seat then its your option whether the shade stays open or now, simple as that.

Airlines charge different prices for window vs. aisle vs. middle? Interesting.

We all paid for a seat. You selected (or in some cases, the airline selected) the particular seat.
 
Lairyliam
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:56 am

I left mine open once.... and learned the hard way, I just nodded off and the sun come up over the horizon. that hurt, and I couldn't sleep after that.. I managed about 30 mins sleep... Not good at all on a night flight.

It also helps the ol body clock..

Lairy
12MILES NNE OF THE IOM VOR
 
airbazar
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 49):
Now, should I go on about when passengers WAKE US UP in our crew rest seats to get them a drink of water?

Personally I don't see why that is a problem after all it is your job and we paid for the whole flight, not just the hours when the FA's are awake. I wonder what would happen to me if my boss saw me sleeping at the office  Smile

Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 49):
Yes, I'll take the heat. It's called common courtesy for those around you, and it's something people lack to the point where sometimes it needs to be imposed upon you.

100% agree. There's too much lack of common coutesy in air travel these days, heck in our society period. It's all about me, me, me.
 
David L
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 54):
Leaving your shutter up while most other shutters are down is as bad as bringing a loud boombox into the cabin. Do you realize your fellow passengers also paid for their fare, so paying for your own doesn't entitle you to being obnoxious?

Come on, expecting people to be shut up in a darkened tube for 8 hours of daylight, because a few might not be able to sleep unless it's pitch black? Fortunately, most people grow out of not being able to sleep with the slightest hint of light before they reach adulthood. Would you like the engines turned off to make it quieter?  Smile OK, if the sun's shining in someone's eyes that's different but that's not what you're saying now, is it? Never been long distance in a car or a bus? Do you go around pulling all the blinds down during the day on a long distance train journey? Try it - I dare you!  Smile
 
ZakHH
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:11 am

I would really not accept that it is rude to leave the shutters up. I consider myself to have rather good manners, and I would not feel good knowing my behaviour would disturb others. But where do you draw the line?

Some pax may be disturbed by cabin TV. Why not abolish it?
Others certainly don't like the smell of food. So isn't it rude to serve hot food onboard?
And about the light issue: personally, I find reading lights much more disturbing than daylight - so why not shut off the reading lights?

Certainly, if I realize that the sun is shining through my window directly into my neighbour's face, I would close the shutter far enough to prevent him from getting blinded. But "protect" others from ambient light? I beg your pardon!

If someone prefers darkness to daylight, does he have a reasonable option to protect himself from the light? Yes, he has.
But if someone prefers light to darkness, does he have a chance to protect himself from the darkness if all shutters are closed? No, he has not.
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ZakHH
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:15 am

One more question just popped into my mind: how could you actually allow children onboard an aircraft, if open shutters are too much of a disturbance already?
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ikramerica
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:17 am

Quoting Skyhigh (Thread starter):
Admittedly people were sleeping but...

but, manners are about making OTHERS feel as comfortable as possible. Selfishness is about always thinking of yourself.

You are told on that flight to lower the shades because it is a LONG flight and people would like to sleep or at least not be in a super bright environment for 13 hours (sunlight+snow/clouds=brightness).

There is no such thing as "day" and "night" outside on a long flight. Between meals it is expected to be "dark" time. That's just the way it is.

While you may want to look out, being asked to lower the shades indicates other people need them closed to sleep, and again, it's a matter of manners.

What you want to do and what is the proper way to act don't always correlate in life, do they?

Quoting HT (Reply 2):
No need to comply. There´s no legal base to it.

In the USA, there is. F/A asks you to do something, you are supposed to do it. Federal law.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
An-225
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:19 am

I've never had a problem. UA announcement is usually If you're not enjoying the view outside we'd like you to please close the shutter to minimize glare.

Over 100 segments and I never had a problem.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
USflysagain
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:21 am

What about the opposite,

The person who INSISTS on a Window seat only to slam shut the window and deny the rest of our viewing pleasure. Jerk, some people grow up way too fast.

US
 
TG990
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:25 am

Exactly David L,

People often take bus trips much longer than long-haul flights and they cannot complain.

Last year I took my first international flight AKL-BKK with Thai and I was extremely disappointed that 3 hours into flight, in broad daylight, I was told to close my window shade, those who pulled them back up were told to bring them down again!
These airlines need to consider all people and by doing this I feel it's discriminating against those passengers who choose to sit by windows or prefer to have natural light in the aircraft (whether it's due to claustrophobia or other reasons..).
Wouldn't it seem safer that passengers have an idea, in an emergency, of where in the world they are and what time of day it is outside if something went wrong?

Anyway, I believe that if an airline is going to help those who wish to sleep, they should be offering masks, not telling half the people on the aircraft that they cannot see outside.

South African's recent adverts say something along the lines of "Getting there is the greatest part of a journey".
 
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fraspotter
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:52 am

I was reading in an article in "Airways" magazine awhile back about a flight on JL. The flight attendants went around with poles that can shut the window blinds while a passenger is sleeping so as not to disturb them.

During night flights in a way I can see how having an open window can disturb passengers due to the flashing strobe lights on the wings shining into the cabin.
But again, on many long haul airlines that are overnighters, they provide eye shades. I would have thought that 100+ IFE screens would have created a bigger disturbance than the open windows do.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

— Gunter's Second Law of Air Travel
 
Guest

RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 61):
Personally I don't see why that is a problem after all it is your job and we paid for the whole flight, not just the hours when the FA's are awake. I wonder what would happen to me if my boss saw me sleeping at the office

You're right, you paid for the whole flight, and you're getting it. You did not pay for a personal servant.

You are aware that it's REQUIRED that the flight attendants get a period of rest on long haul flights right? That's why there's extra FA's on board for those flights. Go ask one of them that's on duty.

Bottom line here...wake up a sleeping FA and just have your complaint letter ready to fill in their name, because you will not get a pleasant response.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 61):
100% agree. There's too much lack of common coutesy in air travel these days, heck in our society period. It's all about me, me, me.

How can you say those two things in the same post?

B
 
HT
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 64):
how could you actually allow children onboard an aircraft, if open shutters are too much of a disturbance already?

Children in windows seats PLUS window shutters to operate: That usually is a source of noise !  

Quoting An-225 (Reply 66):
UA announcement is usually If you're not enjoying the view outside we'd like you to please close the shutter to minimize glare.

THAT´s what I call a well formulated request/instruction.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 65):
In the USA, there is. F/A asks you to do something, you are supposed to do it. Federal law.

For example: F/A asks me to sit upsidedown in my seat and I have to comply ?
Serious: Where is the borderline ?!
-HT

EDIT: typo

[Edited 2006-01-18 22:06:18]
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 61):
Personally I don't see why that is a problem after all it is your job and we paid for the whole flight

Does that mean that if your ORD-LGA flight gets delayed for two hours due to ATC, they should charge you for two flights? Just making sure!
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
TakeOff
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:41 am

I usually leave it half open and never had a complaint from a fellow passenger or a flight attendant except once, on OA. The FA asked me (no, not asked me demanded) that I close the shutter all the way down (it was half closed). I asked her why. She replied, Because I say so. I refused to. Then she started hissing something about "official regulations." I told her that if she could name the exact regulation and the authority it came from, I'd be more than willing to close it. She scoffed, turned around, and disappeared in the galley.
 
ehho
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:49 am

Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 49):
That's a load of bullshit, and a blanket stereotype.

Whoa, what's with the attitude man? Good vibrations to you. Have you seen the movie Anger Management? I swear I saw a passenger treated that way on a CO flight EWR-PTY once. They made it a movie topic for a reason: the US does have a problem with over-sensitivity to security issues.
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
BBD
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:01 am

I think that a sensible solution to this issue could be for airlines, if they don't already have them, to install outside cameras, either in the nose and/or the bottom of the aircraft and allow continuous access to it/them via one/two of the video channels on board. In this way, everybody can have a "window" seat which thery can utilise whichever way that they prefer.
I know that a number apparently already allow viewing of the take-offs and/or landings (I've personally have never experienced them); is there a technical or other problem in leaving them on throughout the trip?
 
JMJAirways
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 24):
You guys that don't close your windows probably bitch when the person in front of you reclines their seat too, don't ya?

hehe!! I certainly do so in cattle class!

Best regards
I am willing to pay extra for a A346 flight !
 
TG990
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting An-225 (Reply 66):
I've never had a problem. UA announcement is usually If you're not enjoying the view outside we'd like you to please close the shutter to minimize glare.

and indeed a very good thing for an airline to do. No customer likes to be told what to do, and even though it's such a minor thing, it makes me want to choose another airline that doesn't tell you that you must close your window shutter (although, there are more important things I consider first).

Has anybody here written to airlines to express our opinion on this?
 
schipholjfk
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:07 am

Jeez... whine, whine and whine! Is this a huge problem in your life? Dude... open your shades for few mins and then pull it down or simply get up and go near a door or the back of the plane and look out one of those windows. People at A.net often forget not everyone (in fact 99.99% of the people who are using plane travel) care about all the stuff like we do when it comes to aviation. They just want to get from point A to point B. Most of them want to sleep, watch IFE and get to their destination safely.
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
visityyj
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 65):
In the USA, there is. F/A asks you to do something, you are supposed to do it. Federal law.

Debatable, and I doubt any airline is going to prosecute you for 'disobeying' window shade orders. I don't know of any test cases on that single issue having been ajudicated. Here are the applicable US and UK laws:

United States Code, Section 46504 Interference with flight crew members and attendants, provides as follows;

"An individual on an aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States who, by assaulting or intimidating a flight crew member or flight attendant of the aircraft, interferes with the performance of the duties of the member or attendant or lessens the ability of the member or attendant to perform those duties, shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned for not more than 20 years, or both. However, if a dangerous weapon is used in the assaulting or intimidating of the member or attendant, the individual shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life".

United Kingdom Air Navigation Order - Article 59A states that:

"No person shall while in an aircraft:
use any threatening, abusive or insulting words towards a member of the crew of the aircraft;
behave in a threatening, abusive, insulting, or disorderly manner towards a member of the crew of the aircraft; or
intentionally interfere with the performance by a member of the crew of the aircraft of his duties."


You may well annoy the FA and your fellow passengers but hey, in a few hours they'll be out of your life  ziplip   flamed 
 
HT
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:31 am

Visityyj,
Tnx for the quotes  Smile
Good nite.
HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
Logan22L
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 49):
It's called common courtesy for those around you, and it's something people lack to the point where sometimes it needs to be imposed upon you.

It's an airplane, not a dormitory. I paid my fare, I look out my window.
"The deeper you go, the higher you fly. The higher you fly, the deeper you go."
 
Guest

RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting EHHO (Reply 74):
Whoa, what's with the attitude man? Good vibrations to you. Have you seen the movie Anger Management? I swear I saw a passenger treated that way on a CO flight EWR-PTY once. They made it a movie topic for a reason: the US does have a problem with over-sensitivity to security issues.

Because that's a load of BS. No one is going to have you arrested for this, and it furthers a stereotype of Americans which is just simply not true.

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 81):
It's an airplane, not a dormitory. I paid my fare, I look out my window.

And it's that sense of entitlement that's exactly the problem. You paid to get from point A to point B. I like how you completely ignored everything else where I said I, as a flight attendant, don't make anyone put there windows down beyond making the announcement. I like looking out the window too...

But I know where my aviation enthusiasm ends, and my JOB begins.

And once your "right" to have your window open bothers another passenger to the point that an arguments starts, the window comes down. It's not worth a dangerous situation at 30K feet.

My right to swing my fist ends where your face begins.

B
 
Thunderbird1
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:49 am

I definitely agree that it's unbelievably frustrating when you can't get a window seat, the person at the window refuses to switch, and they end up keeping the blind closed the whole time. Infuriating.

What's also bad is when you're taxiing and taking off at night and the crew doesn't dim the cabin lights.
 
singaporegirl
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:49 am

all i'm seeing on the thread is : me, me, me, me, me...
Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
 
flymeariver
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:59 am

I find it personally interesting that you are never asked to close your window when the very important safety briefing is being shown on screen, yet for the movie that many people sleep through anyway, the window has to be closed. Does anyone else find this to be hypocritical?
 
ZakHH
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting Singaporegirl (Reply 84):
all i'm seeing on the thread is : me, me, me, me, me...

I would say this is quite natural in a discussion that is mainly based on personal preferences and opinions. Plus, there is only 2 "me"'s in this whole matter: either "me" who feels disturbed by ambient cabin light, or "me" who feels disturbed by being forced to close my shutter.

Both sides expect the other one to be considerate of them. But as I said above, while you can easily cover yourself from light, you cannot cover from darkness. Thus, I do not see a point in shutters being closed by force.
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Ealsys1
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RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:37 am

Screw 'em! I have looked out the window my whole life, about 34 years of flying now. I get a window seat over 90% of the time and unless it's a West-East flight, I keep the window open! I try my best to only have it partially open but I WILL LOOK OUT THE WINDOW WHEN I WANT.

There, I feel better now!

Sam
 
ukkiwibird
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:48 pm

RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:55 am

My i respectfully suggesst that airlines get rid of windows ,thus getting pax to travel in a tube. This would make the FA job easier. And for landings and emergenies the outside can be streamed through a minute camera outside to the inside video screens.  expressionless 
Ukiwibird
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 65):
There is no such thing as "day" and "night" outside on a long flight. Between meals it is expected to be "dark" time. That's just the way it is.

Huh? Where did that come from?

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 65):
While you may want to look out, being asked to lower the shades indicates other people need them closed to sleep, and again, it's a matter of manners.

No it doesn't. It means that a few FAs decide on a blanket rule (and I'm not talking about the blanket round the window  Smile) without using any common sense or having any indication of preference from any passengers.

Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 82):
And once your "right" to have your window open bothers another passenger to the point that an arguments starts, the window comes down. It's not worth a dangerous situation at 30K feet.

But how often does it come to that? In my experience the "guilty" FAs didn't consider whether or not anyone was bothered. We're (mostly) talking about being told by an FA to close the blind "just because". It sounds as if you're not one of the "guilty" ones anyway.  Smile
 
Gasman
Posts: 2203
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:06 am

RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:22 am

Quoting TG990 (Reply 77):
Has anybody here written to airlines to express our opinion on this?

I agree. That's the only way airlines will rethink their current practice, if enough angry customers take the trouble to formally complain.

I was once travelling business class LAX-AKL on Air NZ. The blinds were put down by the crew (no questions asked!) at sundown - with sunrise scheduled for about two hours after landing in AKL. What possible justification there can have been for this nonsensical act, I can't even begin to imagine.
 
Guest

RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:23 am

Quoting David L (Reply 89):
But how often does it come to that? In my experience the "guilty" FAs didn't consider whether or not anyone was bothered. We're (mostly) talking about being told by an FA to close the blind "just because". It sounds as if you're not one of the "guilty" ones anyway.

In the states, more often than I'd like to admit. You never know what's gonna set someone off nowadays. But that's why the tell you to close them anyway, because, as has been said, 99% of the passengers want them closed. It's a normal thing.

B
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 65):
In the USA, there is. F/A asks you to do something, you are supposed to do it. Federal law.

So if the FA asks me to stand up, take all my clothes off and jump up and down, and I refuse, I can be cited for violating federal law?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
incitatus
Posts: 3399
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:33 am

Quoting David L (Reply 62):
because a few might not be able to sleep unless it's pitch black?

I've never been in a cabin that is pitch black. There is no such thing.

Quoting David L (Reply 62):
Do you go around pulling all the blinds down during the day on a long distance train journey?

No I don't, and I don't do that in an airplane either. What's your point then?

Quoting David L (Reply 62):
Would you like the engines turned off to make it quieter?

Yes I would, and so would you, I bet. However, it's impossible to continue the trip with the engines off Big grin, which makes your statement irrelevant to the discussion.

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 63):
I would really not accept that it is rude to leave the shutters up. I consider myself to have rather good manners,

Are you sure? Good manners is a cultural concept - even though I'd lower my shade, I don't take for granted I'm in the "rather good manners" category. Do you realize that just by the way German is spoken one may sound almost rude in some cultures? Where is the smily for schadenfreude? Big grin

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 63):
If someone prefers darkness to daylight, does he have a reasonable option to protect himself from the light? Yes, he has.
But if someone prefers light to darkness, does he have a chance to protect himself from the darkness if all shutters are closed? No, he has not.

That's an excellent point. How to decide then? A couple of shades up is enough to lighten a cabin. If 60 passengers want darkness and 2 a.net members in window seats want light, everybody gets light?  sarcastic 

If in a long haul flight people took a vote on whether shades should be up or down, what would the outcome be? I love to watch the view - I'm a plane freak, a map freak and a geography freak. But I bet at least 80% of the passengers would want shades down.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 91):
as has been said, 99% of the passengers want them closed.

Perhaps "99%" want them closed or don't care! I seriously doubt that there's a lot of evidence to show that 99% want them closed. On the flights I make during the day you'll be lucky if 20% are closed.  Smile
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 24):
You guys that don't close your windows probably bitch when the person in front of you reclines their seat too, don't ya?

No, I don't. I may find that it constricts on my space, but I realize that they have every right to do it.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 45):
BUT, if a pax asks me not to shut his window shade because he wants to enjoy the daylight or the landscape, no problem then !!! I ask but I don't urge !!! All in all, 85-90% of the passengers will close their shades.

I don't have a problem with the F/As asking politely, and I do shut my window as much as I can while still being able to see out of it without having to bend over to see under the shade. It's when they force me to shut it all the way that I get irritated. I went to the trouble of getting a window seat for the purpose of looking out the window, right?

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 54):
Leaving your shutter up while most other shutters are down is as bad as bringing a loud boombox into the cabin. Do you realize your fellow passengers also paid for their fare, so paying for your own doesn't entitle you to being obnoxious?

There's nothing obnoxious about using a window for what it was intended.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
incitatus
Posts: 3399
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:51 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 95):
There's nothing obnoxious about using a window for what it was intended.

There is a time and place for everything (and yes, that's college). There is a time to use the window and a time to use the shade, which is there for some intended purpose as well.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
flymeariver
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:15 am

RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:30 am

Just to clear up this idea that everyone must do what a flight attendant says in the USA, here is the Federal Regulation, taken verbatim from the FAA website under part 121 which governs air carrier operations...

No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated under this part.

14CFR § 121.580
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:48 am

Just get a seat up front, the view is better anyway  Wink
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
1011
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2001 11:30 am

RE: Why Should I Close My Window Shutter?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:06 pm

If you want the window shade down, then why even have windows on planes. Looking out and seeing planes flying by close is fun. If I don't have a window seat I wont fly. I just choose another flight.

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