gkirk
Topic Author
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The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:31 am

With the recent announcement of SN Brussels dropping their GLA flights, and the continued presence of Ryanair at Prestwick possibly putting off more airlines from flying into Glasgow, what does the future hold for Glasgow?

Edinburgh (EDI/EGPH) is booming and will overtake GLA as Scotland's busiest airport within a year or 2.

flyGlobespan, GLA's biggest operator I believe, is now adding destinations on single weekly frequencies to holiday destinations, when they could be adding daily flights to cities such as Paris, Budapest and Madrid.

The charter airline side of things continue to be booming, but with the addition of daily GSM flights to SFB, I fear someone could be a casualty here, will Travel City Direct stop flights?

On the Glasgow to Stansted route there is GSM, AB, FR and EZY, and in my opinion, only 2 airlines can and will win on this one, FR and EZY, although I understand the AB flights are doing pretty well.

As for Europe,
KLM to AMS is probably the only major airline offering connections via their hub in Europe.
I would have thought AF to CDG and LH to FRA would work also, given that both operate successful flights from EDI already.

How about BA Connect? Are we likely to see them expand?

Now for long haul, rumours of Emirates going twice daily to DXB still fly around but so do rumours of a new EDI-DXB flight which would probably be more beneficial to Scottish travellers rather than have 2 daily flights from the same airport.

GLA lost out to EDI in attracting Delta Airlines and Air Canada have already announced that GLA-YYZ won't be returning this coming summer.
The Zoom flights however, appear to be doing well.

How do others feel about the future for GLA?
Will Ryanair continue to scare off the likes of AF and LH from entering GLA?
Will Edinburgh continue to attract more long haul airlines and airlines from eastern Europe?
Or will we see a change in the trend and perhaps business will begin to boom again at Glasgow International Airport?

Your comments please
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WAH64D
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:30 am

The extension of the taxiway parallel to 06/24 has played a big part in attracting carriers to EDI. Backtrack is no longer necessary for heavier aircraft and the capacity for runway movements has increased dramatically.

GLA has a larger population catchment than EDI and will continue to do well. I don't think you can really count the FR PIK-STN flights in the four operators you mention, as Prestwick is 30 miles south of Glasgow and hardly convenient for passengers from the central belt or further north. Globespan, Easyjet and Air Berlin will fight out that route between them. I can see Globespan failing on that route as the other 2 operators are viable for connecting flights to Europe and lets face it, if you're destination is London, you're going to fly on BD/BA to LHR or BA/EZ to LGW.

Edinburgh is increasingly becoming more of an administrative centre than Glasgow due to the opening and expansion of the Scottish Parliament. This has generated a lot of business for the capital and has thereby increased pax numbers through EDI. CO are doing well to EWR and I think DL will have success on the ATL route this year. All in all, EDI is expanding at a very fast pace, GLA is doing well but not in the same league as EDI.

[Edited 2006-01-18 17:31:57]

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
nuclear weapons testing range ? .... just kidding

Brussels, Auckland and Wellington won the prizes in that contest.

[Edited 2006-01-18 17:34:36]
I AM the No-spotalotacus.
 
AV8AJET
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:02 am

I wish we could have seen DL go to GLA instead of EDI. Having family on the West coast of Scotland it would be great to have DL to GLA. It could be a possibilty however I never thought EDI was in DL's thoughts. Time will tell unless they think that with US/CO/AA all servie GLA that it's to much to compete. DL please start ATL-GLA-ATL!
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
HT
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:18 am

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 2):
Globespan, Easyjet and Air Berlin will fight out that route between them. I can see Globespan failing on that route as the other 2 operators are viable for connecting flights to Europe

AB offers real onward connection via STN (checked-thru baggage and pax); I´m unware that EZY has introduced such a feature ...

Quoting Gkirk (Thread starter):
Your comments please

Though Glasgow and Edinburgh are the two major populated areas in Scotland, driving time from one to the other is so low, that IMO it does not warrant for longhaul operators to fly into both airports. I only see the chance of both airports being served in case a single flight to one of them is continually overbooked and demand is present for a second flight.
-HT
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by738
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:22 am

GLA is the biggest airport in Scotland, for the biggest city in Scotland with the highest population. It still remains the busiest airport in Scotland.
I dont think it has anything to worry about.
 
mhodgson
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:26 am

I can't see it just dying. Despite what MO'L would like, FR has not spelt the end for scheduled carriers. SN may have dropped BRU, but it is still accessible albeit via LHR/LGW. As long as Glasgow remains a busy city, air service will continue.
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dogfighter2111
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:27 am

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 2):
GLA has a larger population catchment than EDI and will continue to do well.

I agree with this, there is no way that GLA will end up like EDI was 80 years ago.

EDI has gradually grown and is now starting to 'boom' with the new CO and DL flights.

**I am sure i had something else to say, but can't remember**  

Thanks
Mike

EDIT: **Remembered**

There are good Coach, Rail and Road networks between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

[Edited 2006-01-18 19:37:09]
 
WAH64D
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 2):
I wish we could have seen DL go to GLA instead of EDI. Having family on the West coast of Scotland it would be great to have DL to GLA. It could be a possibilty however I never thought EDI was in DL's thoughts. Time will tell unless they think that with US/CO/AA all servie GLA that it's to much to compete. DL please start ATL-GLA-ATL!

GLA and EDI are 40 minutes apart by road, not too much inconvenience to drive.
I AM the No-spotalotacus.
 
madairdrie
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:52 am

As others have said above there is not much distance between Glasgow and Edinburgh and as someone who lives on the East side of Glasgow I would much rather fly from Edinburgh as it is much easier to get to. To go to GLA I have to cross the city to go to EDI I have no city to cross, so much fewer traffic problems. The other advantage that EDI has over GLA is the fact it is much more central to the whole of Scotland and therefore may even have more people in its catchment area when you start including people in West Lothian, Central Scotland etc etc.
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:17 am

Quoting Madairdrie (Reply 8):
West Lothian

Yay!! Dat's me. lol

Well, to be honest EDI is closer than GLA for people in the East and Central West Lothian.

Thanks
Mike
 
2travel2know
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:59 am

Woo CO and convince them to fly IAH-GLA.
Oil is big bussines in both Scotland and Texas, even a thrice weekly would be appreciated. Or else wait until CO flies EWR-ABZ.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
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nighthawk
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 10):
Woo CO and convince them to fly IAH-GLA.
Oil is big bussines in both Scotland and Texas, even a thrice weekly would be appreciated. Or else wait until CO flies EWR-ABZ.

I think if any airport in Scotland gets a flight to IAH, it will be Aberdeen. BAA have plans to extend the runway, which will hopefully allow a 767 to operate safely. As soon as they do i think CO will be the first airline sniffing around.

Quoting BY738 (Reply 4):
GLA is the biggest airport in Scotland, for the biggest city in Scotland with the highest population. It still remains the busiest airport in Scotland.
I dont think it has anything to worry about.

It may be the biggest city, but Edinburgh is the biggest tourist city and biggest economic city in Scotland, this all amounts to a much larger inbound market.

If you look at the flights at each airport, you will find Glasgow mainly charter flights (outbound scottish holiday makers) while EDI has very little charter flights, routes are mainly scheduled carriers (business traffic) and foreign low cost airlines (inbound tourism).

That is why GLA struggles on the european routes compared to Edinburgh, it just doesnt have the inbound demand to sustain such flights. Any inbound tourism is snapped up by Ryanair.

With Edinburgh growing at 5% and Glasgow at 2%, it is only a matter of time before EDI overtakes GLA.
 
2travel2know
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 11):
I think if any airport in Scotland gets a flight to IAH, it will be Aberdeen. BAA have plans to extend the runway, which will hopefully allow a 767 to operate safely. As soon as they do i think CO will be the first airline sniffing around.

With the current conditons ABZ could get a CO B737-700 service to EWR yesterday; but CO doesn't fly B737 over the pond. Why is taking them so long to start ABZ, I don't know.
In other Oil producing countries, the major airlines don't fly to the oilfields (in Scotland case ABZ or the Shetlands?) but to the capital or major economic centre, that's why a IAH-GLA might make more sense than a IAH-ABZ.
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GLAGAZ
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 11):
I think if any airport in Scotland gets a flight to IAH, it will be Aberdeen. BAA have plans to extend the runway, which will hopefully allow a 767 to operate safely. As soon as they do i think CO will be the first airline sniffing around.

Agreed.

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 11):
It may be the biggest city, but Edinburgh is the biggest tourist city and biggest economic city in Scotland, this all amounts to a much larger inbound market.

Business in Glasgow seems to be booming now, especially with the spectacular Clydeside regeneration scheme. Tourism in the city is also booming now, with a couple of magazines claiming it is better than Edinburgh and even better than many well known destinations worldwide. So I wouldn't be too surprised to see Glasgow catch Edinburgh significantly in terms of tourism in the years ahead, although I don't think it will ever overtake it.

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 11):
If you look at the flights at each airport, you will find Glasgow mainly charter flights (outbound scottish holiday makers) while EDI has very little charter flights, routes are mainly scheduled carriers (business traffic) and foreign low cost airlines (inbound tourism).

True, but it still doesn't explain why GLA does not have flights to FRA or CDG.

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 11):
That is why GLA struggles on the european routes compared to Edinburgh, it just doesnt have the inbound demand to sustain such flights. Any inbound tourism is snapped up by Ryanair.

FR at PIK will come to a hault one day. You can't fly to every town in Europe.

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 11):
With Edinburgh growing at 5% and Glasgow at 2%, it is only a matter of time before EDI overtakes GLA.

Looks as if you think they will stay that way  Wink I have no doubts that EDI will pass GLA in the very near future, but it won't suddenly disappear into the distance.

Gaz
Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
 
Humberside
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 12):
In other Oil producing countries, the major airlines don't fly to the oilfields (in Scotland case ABZ or the Shetlands?) but to the capital or major economic centre, that's why a IAH-GLA might make more sense than a IAH-ABZ.

At the risk of starting EDI vs GLA, which city is Scotalnd's main economic centre? Glasgow is far larger but Edinburgh seems to be the main financial centre
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Damian
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:33 am

Quoting Gkirk (Thread starter):
Will Edinburgh continue to attract more long haul airlines and airlines from eastern Europe?

My thought on more long haul airlines from EDI is yes, but not that many more. I would anticipate Emirates starting up from Edinburgh within the next few years, and perhaps services to Florida (Globespan?), Chicago (AA?) and Toronto (Zoom?).

Other than a handful of new long haul routes I would expect the bulk of EDI's growth over the next decade to come from expanded European links, and certainly eastern European links should feature quite heavily. Malev are known to hold slots for EDI-BUD, and on the back of all these new Polish services I would also expect to see new routes to places like TLL, VNO, and BTS.
 
2travel2know
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
At the risk of starting EDI vs GLA, which city is Scotalnd's main economic centre? Glasgow is far larger but Edinburgh seems to be the main financial centre

If both cities are to grow as expected and given the distance - I would then consider EDI, GLA and PIK airports for the same "metropolitan area"..
Some popular airline calls Hanh "Frankfurt" airport but it's far away from FRA, isn't the distance between Hanh and FRA similar to the one between EDI and GLA (or PIK)?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
Damian
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 2):
I wish we could have seen DL go to GLA instead of EDI. Having family on the West coast of Scotland it would be great to have DL to GLA. It could be a possibilty however I never thought EDI was in DL's thoughts.

DL going to EDI wasn't all that odd. After all, EDI had the codeshare flights to CDG with AF, so I guess DL would have had some idea of the strength of demand for flights to/from Edinburgh from their Atlanta hub.

It's good to see both Edinburgh and Glasgow providing direct flights to the USA. I can't think of any earthly reason why all US carriers need to congregate at only one Scottish airport. More long haul flights coming EDI's way is a reflection of Edinburgh's growing stature as an international city. It's the UK's second most visited city after London, so it's not difficult to see why more and more airlines are attracted.
 
HT
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:01 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 16):
isn't the distance between Hanh and FRA similar to the one between EDI and GLA (or PIK)?

Distances on the road
FRA - HHN: 130 km / 80 mi
GLA - EDI: approx. 80 km / 50 mi
-HT

EDIT: miles added

[Edited 2006-01-18 23:17:43]
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
WAH64D
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:09 am

EDI-GLA is 49 miles by road
EDI-PIK is 72 miles by the quickest (not shortest) road route
GLA-PIK is 36 miles by the quickest road route.

I think its a bit of a stretch saying that they all serve one metropolitan destination. PIK is in the Ayrshire countryside and was a bit of a tumbleweed sanctuary before FR arrived. I grew up 25 miles to the south of PIK and other than having the longest runway in Scotland, it didn't have much to shout about back then.
I AM the No-spotalotacus.
 
by738
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:43 am

I thought Campbeltown had the longest runway in Scotland
 
2travel2know
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 19):
EDI-GLA is 49 miles by road
EDI-PIK is 72 miles by the quickest (not shortest) road route
GLA-PIK is 36 miles by the quickest road route.

Nowonder that much concern about GLA, it has 2 other important airports within a 50 miles radius.

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 19):
I grew up 25 miles to the south of PIK and other than having the longest runway in Scotland, it didn't have much to shout about back then.

Isn't PIK the only airport in Scotland open 24/7 and one of the few in the UK with no major noise issues?
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GLAGAZ
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:49 am

Quoting BY738 (Reply 20):
I thought Campbeltown had the longest runway in Scotland

Do you mean RAF Machrihanish? The secret US base where the aurora stops at  Wink lol

Gaz
Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
 
by738
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:17 am

Machrihanish is over 3000m in length, think PIK is just short of 3000m
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:43 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 21):
Isn't PIK the only airport in Scotland open 24/7

Nope. EDI, GLA and ABZ now too are all open 24/7. Might well be others...
 
N
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:13 pm

Quoting Damian (Reply 15):
At the risk of starting EDI vs GLA, which city is Scotalnd's main economic centre? Glasgow is far larger but Edinburgh seems to be the main financial centre

Edinburgh is the capital of Scotland and is the bigger financial and economic centre with lots of financial services companies headquartered there. Royal Bank of Scotland is the worlds 5th largest bank (they have a British Airways self-service check-in kiosk in their head office), HBOS, Standard Life, Scottish Equitable (Dutch owned), Scottish Widows as well as a number of smaller fund management firms all have Head Offices.

Although Glasgow has a number of financial services companies with quite big offices there, with a few exceptions (Abbey Life, Scottish Mutual) many of these are administrative offices or call centres. I think it’s fair to say that the amount of business traffic generated from a headquarters by the senior execs travelling is probably greater than that created by administration centres.

Quoting BY738 (Reply 4):
GLA is the biggest airport in Scotland, for the biggest city in Scotland with the highest population.



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 16):
If both cities are to grow as expected

The Scottish Executive expects Edinburgh's population (and its environs) to grow quite substantially while Glasgow's (and its environs) is expected to fall in the future. Factors like this will inevitably have an influence on attracting new routes longer term.

In addition, I think it's fair to say that the size of the population is probably not the only factor that needs to be taken into account when planning new routes and expansion. Wealth and the desire/need/ability of the population to travel will have an impact on attracting new routes and increasing capacity. Again, the Scottish Executive figures confirm that proportionately, there are more low income households in Glasgow than Edinburgh.

Before anybody has a go at me for starting a Glasgow v’s Edinburgh thing; I’m not, these are Scottish Exec’s words and I love both cities because they are so different from each other.

Scotsman 22.12.2005

The figures came from the Registrar General for Scotland in a regional breakdown of last year's population estimates.
Most councils close to Edinburgh will see an increase but other large urban areas will see a fall, particularly in the west.
Inverclyde, East and West Dunbartonshire, Renfrewshire and all the island council areas are expected to show a fall, while Glasgow's population is expected to fall by 4%. But Edinburgh will see its population increase by 10% and East Lothian by 13%.
And the Lothians as a whole will see its population rise to almost 850,000 in the next 12 years, outstripping Glasgow and its neighbouring local authorities by more than 5000 people.

"These figures are not a surprise because it is part of a long-running trend where the population of Glasgow has been in decline."

Scotsman 02.03.2005
Edinburgh emerged with one of the highest rates of employment in the UK, the second highest house prices and as one of only four cities with a growing population.
The study, which also compares the UK cities with key European rivals, was commissioned by the Scottish Executive and undertaken by researchers from Liverpool’s John Moores University.
The proportion of households receiving income-based benefits varied across Scotland’s cities. In 2003, just 17.8 per cent of households in Edinburgh were on benefits, compared to 35.6 per cent in Glasgow.
 
vadheim
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:51 pm

Edinburgh (EDI) will also get a new route to Bergen (BGO) from 27th. March this year. Bergen is Norway's second city with 250.000 inhabitants, located on the western coast of Norway.

The operator will be Widerøe (WF) using Dash8 aircraft on it's thrice weekly (1, 4, 6) nonstop service.

Newcastle (NCL) will also receive a thrice weekly (3, 5, 7) Widerøe nonstop service to Bergen from 26th. March.


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gkirk
Topic Author
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:59 pm

Quoting Vadheim (Reply 26):
Newcastle (NCL) will also receive a thrice weekly (3, 5, 7) Widerøe nonstop service to Bergen from 26th. March.

Fantastic news!
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
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nighthawk
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:32 am

Quoting GLAGAZ (Reply 13):
FR at PIK will come to a hault one day. You can't fly to every town in Europe.

Expansion may well come to a halt, but when it does it isnt going to help GLA much, all destinations will be covered, and there will be no new markets for any carriers. They will have no choice but to go head-to-head with ryanair.

Quoting GLAGAZ (Reply 13):
Looks as if you think they will stay that way Wink I have no doubts that EDI will pass GLA in the very near future, but it won't suddenly disappear into the distance.

We can only assume the current trends will continue, but we really cant tell. 10-20 years ago EDI was bearly growing at all, and the thought of it overtaking GLA would never have been considered. A simple decision made down in london changed all that. Likewise similar decisions in future may once again change everything..

GLA will never "suddenly disappear into the distance", there will always be a demand for flights, and with more and more people travelling, this demand will increase.

With regards to tourism, the visitor figures are very close to each other, one single high profile event such as the commonwealth games could easily provide a boost to figures leading to it overtaking Edinburgh.

Quoting ScottishLaddie (Reply 24):
Nope. EDI, GLA and ABZ now too are all open 24/7. Might well be others...

Although they are open 24/7, there are movement restrictions at night, limiting movements to a fairly low number. GLA also has heavy noise restrictions which are not in place at EDI. PIK however does not have any restrictions AFAIK

Quoting N (Reply 25):
In addition, I think it's fair to say that the size of the population is probably not the only factor that needs to be taken into account when planning new routes and expansion. Wealth and the desire/need/ability of the population to travel will have an impact on attracting new routes and increasing capacity

You got the nail on the head there. Many people seem to assume large population = large demand, but its not that simple. The wealth of that population plays a drastic factor, as does levels of commercial activity, inbound tourism etc etc.

Take frankfurt as an example, its the busiest airport in Germany, yet the city is not the largest, its huge demand stems from the massive economy of the city.
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:29 am

Quoting Vadheim (Reply 26):
Edinburgh (EDI) will also get a new route to Bergen (BGO) from 27th. March this year. Bergen is Norway's second city with 250.000 inhabitants, located on the western coast of Norway.

The operator will be Widerøe (WF) using Dash8 aircraft on it's thrice weekly (1, 4, 6) nonstop service.

Interesting development, Flyglobespan hold slots for daily EDI-BGO flights for this summer too...
 
gkirk
Topic Author
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting ScottishLaddie (Reply 29):
Interesting development, Flyglobespan hold slots for daily EDI-BGO flights for this summer too...

Doesn't mean they will launch it though  Wink
Probably just an excuse to hold some EDI slots for another route in the future  Wink
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
ScottishLaddie
Posts: 2309
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RE: The Future For Glasgow (GLA/EGPF)?

Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 30):
Doesn't mean they will launch it though

You have a bad habit of stating the obvious.  Wink

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