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jacobin777
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting Tu154 (Reply 48):
Again, what is it with the male preoccupation with size??

say what??  confused 

lets see..so if we were to compare BA's route structure with U2's, would that be some kind of "male preoccupation with size"??

bit odd...
"Up the Irons!"
 
IceTitan447
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:46 am

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 38):
Lucky CO? Not if United management was in control.

I think we all know they wouldn't be. Maybe Tilton, but Brace and Teague(don't know how to spell his name) Would most likely be a thing of the past.

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 38):
ORD yes... DEN is way behind EWR and IAH.

Thanks, I didn't know the two were so Big.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 42):
CO is more powerful in NYC (largest US market), more powerful in Latin America, Mexico, Caribbean, and larger in the Southeastern US.

And UAL Has LHR, bigger on the west coast, the Pacific Rim, fly to Australia. I don't know about Canada, UAL is bigger in the Midwest, mountain region, and have a small presence on the east coast. UAL has NRT, and China, I know they are part of the Pacific, but they are growing quick.

We can make lists all day. The two airlines would complement each other, you get tired of reading pinheads saying sad CO if they get stuck with UAL, the top Management folks don't share the same resentment.
 
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STT757
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:07 am

Quoting IceTitan447 (Reply 51):
And UAL Has LHR, bigger on the west coast, the Pacific Rim, fly to Australia

CO flies to Australia (Cairns), and serves more destinations in the Pacific (including 8 in Japan) than UAL and NWA combined.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
jjeff
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:31 am

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 38):
IF Continental management (And this is already assuming this beast of a merger went forward) was in control, the CO name would stay.



Quoting STT757 (Reply 42):
The UAL brand is more powerful in both NRT and LHR.

Here's how these things work: management engages market research firms to measure the quantifiable brand equity of both partners. Only very seldom does the better known, better perceived, "stronger" brand not persevere even where management comes from the "weaker" brand. Cases in point: America West/US Airways, Bank of America/NationsBank, SBC/AT&T.

[Edited 2006-01-21 03:37:46]
 
wdleiser
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:46 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 52):

CO flies to Australia (Cairns), and serves more destinations in the Pacific (including 8 in Japan) than UAL and NWA combined.

I think UA and NW both serve more stops from the continental US to Japan than CO does. I also believe UA serves more Australian destinations non stop from the continental US than CO does.
 
ChicagoFlyer
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:09 pm

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 40):
Quoting OOer (Reply 6):
United WILL post profits in 2006.

I'm assuming you are including the nearly ten billion in monopoly money credits they are expecting the instant they walk out of the Northern District of Illinois Courthouse for the last time. I love flying United, but I just find a full year 2006 profit for United to be highly unlikely...that said, I've been made to eat my words before...

I completely agree, the 2006 ACCOUNTING profits at UAL are a sure bet. Have you seen the losses in 2005? On the operating level they were small, but mgmt had taken huge restructuring charges. These will be reversed in 2006 "fresh start" accounting--exactly at the time mgmt leaves the Courthouse, I might add!

To quote Crain's Chicago Business (A bit dated from Sep 2005, but good enough for the purpose)

Quote:
United expects to report $3 billion in largely non-cash reorganization charges this year, and to benefit next year by a paper gain that will come as it writes off $8.9 billion in debt as it exits bankruptcy.

Of course, there's still a chance management might find a way to sustain multi-billion losses vomit , but it's unlikely. So, how much are you willing to bet for or against UA's positive operating bottom-line in 2006? I am not putting any $ on the table (Just like Bill Simmons at ESPN does not like to wager on the Carolina Panthers games)
 
Bels13
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:18 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 4):
UA will not go all boeing

Well, a boeing rep on my flight today told me that UA is seriously interested in 737-700/800/900 to replace the 300/500 and airbus aircraft. Furthermore, he said that an all boeing carrier is looking to help UA with this purchase. umm, CO maybe, since he was flying on CO at the time. Makes the best sense out of all the airline merger rumors.
 
CO767FA
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:04 pm

If this rumor becomes reality, look for CO to keep UA hubs were CO still has kitchens (HNL, LAX, DEN) and maintenance facilities. One of the cost containments that CO has over all other US airlines is owning their catering company (used to be a liability).
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:22 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 43):
Europe..thats a bit of a tossup..but I would probably give UA the nudge there..

Just ever so slightly, though - and only because UA uses much larger equipment to fewer places while CO hits far more destinations with smaller equipment:

http://www.atwonline.com/channels/da...irlineEconomics/f&f_page3_1205.pdf

In the period from JAN05 to JUL05, CO carried 2,142,000 customers across the Atlantic while UA carried 2,146,000 - just 4,000 more.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
atmx2000
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:26 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 59):
In the period from JAN05 to JUL05, CO carried 2,142,000 customers across the Atlantic while UA carried 2,146,000 - just 4,000 more.

I would think that if CO could fly to LHR, they would carry more transatlantic traffic.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
kiwiandrew

RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:29 pm

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 54):
I also believe UA serves more Australian destinations non stop from the continental US than CO does.

correct

UA serves one nonstop destination in Australia from the continental US
( SYD from both LAX and SFO - daily for each with 744s plus supplementary flights during the southern summer ) and one onestop ( MEL via SYD daily with 744 )

CO serves one destination in Australia ( CNS from GUM 2 0r three times weekly with a 738 ) but none at all from the continental US
 
ikramerica
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:09 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 34):
But I don't think a LCC operation should concentrate on a few hubs like you are proposing. Better to have a more diffuse structure concentrating on O&D that doesn't try to subsidize spoke traffic via higher prices for hub-hub traffic.

Misread what I wrote.

Quoting Icetitan447 (Reply 37):
CO is not but a splinter in a few of those markets. The UAL brand is more powerful in both NRT and LHR. Some of what you say makes sense, but not when it comes to hubs.

UAL would never make DEN, or ORD just an LCC base.

Also misread what I wrote.

I never used the word HUB for the UNITED LCC. I used Base. Basically focusing on O&D traffic for DEN, ORD and IAD.

Nor did I say ORD would not be international. But the United LCC would not be flying International. CO would take over international service, and yes, DEN would be 1 of the 5 cities. EWR, DEN, IAH, LAX, SFO with major International traffic, with IAD serving a few EU capitals.

There are good reasons to divest the Airbus into their own airline, not the least of which is to get the merger through. I know some people are saying the merger wouldn't have anti-trust problems due to non-overlapping routes, but I don't agree. I think domestically it might be seen as too large. Further, there may be objections due to what happened with AA and TW, where STL got screwed. UNITED as an LCC would remain focused on the cities that are domestically viable but redundant in a hub system like COs.

It's just an idea, but if TED is a good idea, then UNITED LCC is just as good an idea.

As for the belief that UA has better worldwide brand recognition, you can believe that if you want, but it doesn't. While UA is known in Japan, so is CO, all over due to COMike. CO also has a much stronger Latin American presence, a very strong presence ALL OVER Europe. LHR is not a factor here, because CO will make a name for itself flying there when they get the UA rights.

But here's one very important reason why CO should remain the international brand, not UA. UA is a 3-class airline (or 4). The future of international from the USA is 2-class services. Rather than convert all of the planes to US only to cut out a class and confuse the market, switching to CO 2-class would not cause anyone. And before anyone says they would need 3-class for LHR, well, UA seems to be cutting LHR service, so that doesn't hold water. Or a synergy might be in order, with BusinessFirst/F, Y+ and Y across the entire fleet.

Anyway, none of this will happen anyway, or if they do merge, they'll try and roll everything into one, but if you want to make it work and be more manageable and efficient, combining and then splitting in a reorganization move is a better idea than a straight merger (that would ultimately result in too much cut service and lost jobs).
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
IceTitan447
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:39 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 62):
I never used the word HUB for the UNITED LCC. I used Base. Basically focusing on O&D traffic for DEN, ORD and IAD.

Never said you used the word Hub. I wouldn't put anymore Ted in or out of ORD.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 62):
Nor did I say ORD would not be international. But the United LCC would not be flying International. CO would take over international service

Never did I say ORD wouldn't be International, UAL isn't going to drop International flying for CO, UAL has the widebodies, and the name of the airline would still be UAL, so International flying would still be UAL.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 62):
It's just an idea, but if TED is a good idea, then UNITED LCC is just as good an idea.

Ted was a back door way to get rid of First Class, and pick up more leisure travel, I wouldn't say it is the best of ideas, but it works.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 62):
As for the belief that UA has better worldwide brand recognition, you can believe that if you want, but it doesn't

Once again this is your opinion. CO has become quit the darling on this thread lately. UAL is a better airline, and this in my opinion. You don't have to accept my opinion, but we seem to all be arguing over what carrier will thrive and succeed, who will die and slowly slip into history.

The best part about all this is we don't ave to make these decisions, But either way, if they merged, I wouldn't stop flying either in place of companies like AA or NW.
 
baw716
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:29 am

Tilton predicting airline mergers....hmmm. Didn't know he had a crystal ball.

Sounds like a prediction about UA/CO. CO coming out of SkyTeam would be a BIG hit for that alliance. I suspect if UA tries and CO is willing, there will be one hell of a fight coming from the other members of SkyTeam.

stay tuned..it could get interesting.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
HunUtazo
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting BAW716 (Reply 65):
UA/CO

---->/<----

ha ha ha, heh heh heh.....

it's gonna be fun, it's gonna be fun...

good luck to both groups, it's all gonna work out in the end.
dude
 
bmacleod
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:24 am

If either DL or NWA liquidates, another will have to pick up the pieces. UA's financial position wipes out any chance of them going for the leftovers. AA may want to retire its 250+ MD-80s for NWA or DL's 757 fleet.

DL's route network would look most attractive to CO with hubs EWR and IAH. CVG and SLC would close but ATL would become the new CO 'superhub'.   

Likewise CO would shut down EWR and move to JFK.....

NWA only has hubs in the north which except for SEA don't look attractive to any carrier.

[Edited 2006-01-21 20:29:03]
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
xstro
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting ChicagoFlyer (Reply 36):
United has pledged to Denver that they will not decrease their presence there. Should they abandon DEN they will be in big trouble as the city will want millions of $$ back. So if you are hypothesising about future hubs please keep DEN on your map.

Denver has zero recourse. They are trying to keep business in town and who can blame them. Airport commerce is HUGE business. They need look no further than Minnesota and discover how bailing out an airline will cost the taxpayers. Northwest is working the numbers and not living up to expectations.

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 38):
With the way NW management is going, I look for them to shut down over labor difficulties if any airline does.

This is an interseting comment to me as well. First sidestep the MN bailout and send the mechanics packing. I believe that NW management is one of the smartest groups out there is getting what they want. In my opinion NW will be one of the stronger airlines since they appear poised to pounce on the unions and move forward.
 
globaldude
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:27 am

bmacleod,

EWR would NEVER be closed in favor of JFK.....EWR is what makes CAL so valuable......
 
boeingguy1
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:23 pm

Quoting Icetitan447 (Reply 37):
I would even go out on a limb and say DEN and ORD are busier than CO biggest hub. COrrect me if I'm wrong, please

Busy as a whole airport? Yes. In ORD, UA and AA both make Chicago/O'Hare one of the busiest airports in America. DEN? Uh... I'd say EWR/IAH is a much larger scale operation... just my 2 pence.
"...Gatwick South!? Id rather crash in Brighton!"
 
boeingguy1
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:32 pm

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 66):

Likewise CO would shut down EWR and move to JFK.....

Sorry for the double post, but I didnt read this correctly.... but I will comment.

Are you nucking futs? Why in all hell would CO move to JFK? Why do you think they have such a large operation at EWR? Its because EWR, (excluding NYC/CT/LI) is more conveinent for people in the NJ/PA/Upstate NY. Who the hell wants to drive 2 hours through gridlock to get to JFK? Ive done it more than my fair share of times while in the states- and trust me, even if CO is a little more expensive, I will fly them whenever im in the US Domestically or Internationally if im not in NYC.
"...Gatwick South!? Id rather crash in Brighton!"
 
bobnwa
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 66):
Likewise CO would shut down EWR and move to JFK.....

That would never happen.

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 66):
NWA only has hubs in the north which except for SEA don't look attractive to any carrier.

When did NWA open a hub in SEA?
 
jacobin777
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 69):
Yes. In ORD, UA and AA both make Chicago/O'Hare one of the busiest airports in America.

try the world!
"Up the Irons!"
 
gigneil
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 66):
NWA only has hubs in the north which except for SEA don't look attractive to any carrier.

Memphis is hardly in the north.

N
 
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antoniemey
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting HunUtazo (Reply 65):
---->/<----

ha ha ha, heh heh heh.....

it's gonna be fun, it's gonna be fun...

good luck to both groups, it's all gonna work out in the end.

You know, someone who is 13-15 of age shouldn't claim to have any idea of how mergers are going to happen. Most certainly not without any supporting evidence in any of your posts.

I don't think CO would go for a merger with another carrier unless they were in control, personally. That's from long association with the airline as a member of an employee's family. Continental is more likely to let an airline go down and then pick up the assets. The current management group learned a lot from the lessons of Lorenzo's super merger back in the 80s.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
baw716
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:56 am

Bmacloud,
Thank you for stating SEA is a viable gateway. We are SO ignored here.
baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 66):
DL's route network would look most attractive to CO with hubs EWR and IAH. CVG and SLC would close but ATL would become the new CO 'superhub'.

Have you ever seen a map of the US??

Salt Lake City is the only Western Hub for Continental or Delta. Dont try to tell me that Houston is a western hub (again please look at a map). There would be no flights in the west to fly from Phoenix etc. to seattle etc. you connect thru Houston???

I am biased look at my name  bigthumbsup 
 
bmacleod
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 73):
Memphis is hardly in the north.

When did NW open a hub in Memphis? I though that was a Fedex only city.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
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Jamake1
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:23 pm

I am not sure why I am even jumping into this discussion, but here goes:

A more likely scenario would be a minor financial investment in one or the other companies and a combination in the form of a Star Alliance partnership and code-share agreement over an outright merger. M & A's are messy, complicated, and complex. If the latter WERE to happen, then the United name would survive.

Now, I know that you Continental cheerleaders wouldn't be very happy about it, but the bottom line is that United has a much stronger brand identity around the globe. True, CO flies to more destinations, but keep in mind that many of the international destinations served by CO are second tier cities. United has a very strong customer base and brand identity in the important gateways, notably NRT in the pacific, SFO, LAX, ORD, and IAD in the U.S. and LHR and FRA in Europe. True, South America is United's weakest link. But, from a marketing perspective, the United brand is more powerful. Additionally, the Star Alliance is a powerhouse as well. I would be more than willing to put a $100 down that the United name would survive. Micronesia, Bristol and Birmingham ain't Narita, Hong Kong, Heathrow and Frankfurt. As far as fleet: My crystal ball tells me that the Boeing 787 will win out over any widebody Airbus offering. But then again, United wouldn't pass up an offer it couldn't refuse. There it is...
Come fly the sun.
 
bobnwa
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:30 pm

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 77):
When did NW open a hub in Memphis? I though that was a Fedex only city.

MEM was a Republic hub that NWA inherited with the NW/RC merger in the mid 80's. Before RC them I believe it was Southern Airlines mini hub. Not sure when it started but it has been there for a long time!!
 
ord
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:32 pm

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 77):
When did NW open a hub in Memphis?

Northwest inherited the Memphis hub from its acquisition of Republic back in 1986.
 
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Jamake1
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting JJeff (Reply 53):
Here's how these things work: management engages market research firms to measure the quantifiable brand equity of both partners. Only very seldom does the better known, better perceived, "stronger" brand not persevere even where management comes from the "weaker" brand. Cases in point: America West/US Airways, Bank of America/NationsBank, SBC/AT&T.

The most intelligent posting yet, on this entire topic. One more point: My crystal ball is really clear this morning so here goes...

Hubs: (Assuming an outright merger/integration)

SFO-LAX-DEN-IAH-ORD-EWR-IAD

Both westcoast and eastcoast gateways have the O&D traffic and customer base to warrant dual hubs. Cleveland will be the sacrificial lamb in this case.
Denver and Houston serve different markets and the reading I'm getting is that both hubs will be retained. There it is folks...an airline powerhouse branded as U N I T E D.
Come fly the sun.
 
stirling
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:30 am

The thought of United never ordering another Boeing product is a potentially ironic twist of history...considering the airline began life as Boeing Air Transport.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 11):
maybe a A358 Domestic could be developed in the future.

I don't think they can do it.
My thoughts are 737-600...looks like a good idea, but reality is the costs are virtually the same as the -700, so why bother?...and the A330-200, anything less than 2500nm is a waste of a plane.

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 12):
Tilton is stating the obvious to the business press. It is just a matter of time.



Quoting Congaboy (Reply 17):
Notice Tilton does not specifically address the rumored UA-CO merge; he just validates mergers are likely to occur

When the topdogs start to bark, I think its time to listen.
It is heating up.

Quoting Jgold47 (Reply 20):
United could pull out of ORD and its congestion and move ops to DTW, or even MSP

United will never voluntarily abdicate their Chicago presence....without any data to back this up; I'd dare say MSP/DTW combined don't even have a quarter of the O/D ORD has....
And besides, Ford's problems are not good news for DTW-and the airlines that call it 'home'.

Quoting ChicagoFlyer (Reply 21):
The real point Tilton was making was that the current 'regulatory environment' --read the Republican government--is more accepting of big airline mergers

This is not a behavior unique to Republicans. Airline Deregulation came from a Democrat. Nixon opposed de-regulation.
Sidebar: It was a Democratic President who opened the door to massive consolidation in the Broadcast industry...When it comes to "Big-Business", Dems and Reps are equally sympathetic.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 28):
if the two were to combine, they would SPIN OFF the entire A320 fleet into "United" which would be what TED is now. It's called divesting. It helps the merger go through regulators. It simplifies the fleet of the international carrier.

Bingo.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 28):
UA and CO don't need all their domestic capacity when combined, but international capacity, yes.

Double Bingo.
Funny thing about a Continental/United merger, is that both brands are likely to survive, then everyone is happy.
The point is that the US Domestic is only at over-capacity in the high-priced category, while demand for the lower-priced seats continues to grow.
Continental as the International carrier, United as the domestic, all-Airbus LCC spun off as Ted. Ted will die, United will carry on.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 33):
LAX, DEN, CLE, and IAD -- buh bye

Incredible statement.
LAX?
DEN?
Largest O/D market in the West?
Largest O/D market in the central US that also doubles as a convenient connection hub?

Quoting Danny (Reply 24):
A319 - yes
A320 - yes
B752 - A321, 757s will be on the desert by then

Does that mean all these niche Euro services begun by Continental go away? Because I doubt the A321 could get the job done....without a stop on an aircraft carrier stationed somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic...

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 62):
It's just an idea, but if TED is a good idea, then UNITED LCC is just as good an idea.

See above. United will operate a fleet of A319/A320/A321, probably twice the size it is today, but still domestic only, one class. Stuff like LAX-JFK and the international routes...all that falls under the new "Continental".

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 73):
Memphis is hardly in the north.

Well it is "North" of Tunica.....
Delete this User
 
bobnwa
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 82):
without any data to back this up; I'd dare say MSP/DTW combined don't even have a quarter of the O/D ORD has....

I also do not have the data at hand but taking your statement at face value, it is not even close to being correct!!
 
wdleiser
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:00 am

I still think United would be the name if the two merged. United has the rights at Narita and Heathrow. CO, flies into the small airports in Europe. United has a major presence at Frankfurt and Heathrow. The merged airline would be in Star as Lufthansa would not allow the merger unless it stayed in Star... and if the UA name stayed. I know Lufthansa doesnt have much of a say, but they would probably have some say. UA has been downsizing at Heathrow only from JFK. On important routes, First and Business need to be there, not a biz first product, ... maybe upgrade first, and put CO's biz first product as the biz class and then have a great C class product.

I don't see many A321's being purchased at all.
 
HunUtazo
Posts: 229
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RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:17 am

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 73):
You know, someone who is 13-15 of age shouldn't claim to have any idea of how mergers are going to happen. Most certainly not without any supporting evidence in any of your posts.

I don't think CO would go for a merger with another carrier unless they were in control, personally. That's from long association with the airline as a member of an employee's family. Continental is more likely to let an airline go down and then pick up the assets. The current management group learned a lot from the lessons of Lorenzo's super merger back in the 80s.

ha ha ha, heh heh heh..

i'm just a stupid kid messenger, and i'll be out shoveling snow in a moment, ouch...

however,

here ya go...

i'll say it again...

cal/ual

amr/nwa

lcc/?

luv/?

dal/?

oil is, and will be, volatile for now on, they have to be able to afford oil, they have to be able to price the product to pay for it,

and they will...

when the dust settles, it's all gooood...

good luck to everyone concerned,

we're nearing the end,

of the beginning...





NEXT!!!
dude
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 83):
The merged airline would be in Star as Lufthansa would not allow the merger unless it stayed in Star.

Perhaps, as I believe Star has restrictive exit policies. I don't think they have many other options. Of course, if there is a wave of mergers among US majors with international service and one alliance gets too dominant (US is in Star as well), the US gov might get involved.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
N908AW
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:05 pm

RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:29 am

I was thinking about this the other day. When AA and TW were on the verge of merging, how many of us doubted the logic behind that merger? We can criticize the possibilities of NW/AA or any other legacy combination, but one can only imagine the possibilities.

IMHO, the only consolidating would occur when/if DL/NW dissolve. In those instances, perhaps one or more hubs would be shifted. Imagine the black holes that would be created in the system in MSP, ATL, MEM, SLC, CVG, and (to a lessor extent) DTW. Eek. Didn't I hear a rumor that AA wouldn't exactly say no to having an opportunity to move out of ORD?

But other than scavenging, I don't see much hope of two huge legacies becoming one.
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
IceTitan447
Posts: 450
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:27 am

RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 83):
The merged airline would be in Star as Lufthansa would not allow the merger unless it stayed in Star

That would be probably the only obvious. Ual was a founding member of Star, they wont leave it because they merge with CAL.
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2368
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: UAL's Tilton Predicts Airline Mergers.

Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 77):
A more likely scenario would be a minor financial investment in one or the other companies and a combination in the form of a Star Alliance partnership and code-share agreement over an outright merger. M & A's are messy, complicated, and complex. If the latter WERE to happen, then the United name would survive.

Now, I know that you Continental cheerleaders wouldn't be very happy about it, but the bottom line is that United has a much stronger brand identity around the globe. True, CO flies to more destinations, but keep in mind that many of the international destinations served by CO are second tier cities. United has a very strong customer base and brand identity in the important gateways, notably NRT in the pacific, SFO, LAX, ORD, and IAD in the U.S. and LHR and FRA in Europe. True, South America is United's weakest link. But, from a marketing perspective, the United brand is more powerful. Additionally, the Star Alliance is a powerhouse as well. I would be more than willing to put a $100 down that the United name would survive. Micronesia, Bristol and Birmingham ain't Narita, Hong Kong, Heathrow and Frankfurt. As far as fleet: My crystal ball tells me that the Boeing 787 will win out over any widebody Airbus offering. But then again, United wouldn't pass up an offer it couldn't refuse. There it is...

I could not agree more. Anyone who believes United has just gonr 3yrs of CH11 to wave the name goobye is living in a dream world. Also look for UA to purchase not be purchased........just aint gonna happen!

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