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Poitin
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Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:01 am

Does the A380 have an evacuation problem?

The full-fledged aircraft evacuation test of 853 passengers plus a crew of 20 or so, which has to be completed in 90 seconds was originally scheduled for October 2005. This has been postponed several times and is now scheduled for “after” 21 March 2006. Airbus says that is because of aircraft availability. Others speculate that they are having a problem. I have no information about what their concerns are.

However, I have seen one report that in November 2005, they tried to deploy the evacuation slides on the A380 in a wind and the upper slides blew around. No, I do not have the reference. If anyone does, please post it.

Please remember that the upper doors are 8 meters (28 feet) off the ground and because of that the slides have got to be in the order of 15 meters long or so. That is a very big wing, so it may be an issue.

The background of the test is well covered here:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05087/478649.stm

There is also a May 2005 article in Der Spiegel (English version) about this test.
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,354366,00.html


Please note that this is a realistic test with real passenger-type people. One thing that is not realistic is that the test will be done after the slides are deployed and checked for safety. While a very reasonable precaution, given that people can be hurt, if the slides do in fact blow around in a strong wind, then you could have an extremely dangerous condition in real world conditions.

Does anyone know if there is a test of the slides being deployed in a strong wind? If so, what are the parameters?
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TheSonntag
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:24 am

Well, one reason for the delays is very straightforward: These tests are conducted in Hamburg, and therefore the plane must be flown from Toulouse to Hamburg to get the cabin fitted. This didn't happen for a long time as the test programme was delayed, therefore the evacuation tests are delayed, as well.

Apart from that, I think A should be given time to evaluate everything before they do the real test. This test can be dangerous, therefore all risks must be taken care of before.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:30 am

The reason it has been delayed, i would guess, is that a number of the reasons you've raised, and more, the people at airbus have thought of. The want to make absolutely sure their test will work. A380 is on a scale that has yet to be proven, it's a new concept. If their test fails, people will lose a lot of faith in A380. I'm guessing they just want to be doubly sure the test will work.
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centrair
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:30 am

That first article was amazingly well researched and written. Rare.

I like how the FAA is thinking. Test the whole thing. In a real accident, you ain't gonna be emptying one deck at a time. The whole "Show me" thing is good. Everybody off in 90 seconds and the plane is considered good. I would feel better with an "all up test".

This test is more important than the first flight in my opinion.
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JayinKitsap
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:14 am

Does Airbus have a flight test site like the 772LR did? I'm trying to remember how many A380s are flying now, is it 3? When do 4 and 5 join the testing. Is the evacuation test plane now receiving the interior in Hamburg? It seems unsettling that the evacuation test is still like 7 weeks away. It seems like this test has been delayed by like 6 months AFTER the official 6 month delay was announced.

On the Airbus site the A380 navigator only lists 2 posts in Jan on tests, one the plane arriving in Columbia and the 2nd indicating the high altitude tests are done. Nothing on the 2nd plane. The 3rd plane flew to Hamburg and was doing some other tests before fitting out the interior.

Why is there so little information on the A380 right now?
 
AeroTycoon
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting Poitin (Thread starter):
The full-fledged aircraft evacuation test of 853 passengers plus a crew of 20 or so, which has to be completed in 90 seconds was originally scheduled for October 2005.

The requirement is to evacuate all persons onboard in 90 seconds or less using half of the available exits. With nearly 900 people on board, this will be fun to watch.
 
Poitin
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:37 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 2):
The want to make absolutely sure their test will work. A380 is on a scale that has yet to be proven, it's a new concept. If their test fails, people will lose a lot of faith in A380. I'm guessing they just want to be doubly sure the test will work.

I agree with you completely, but are you ready to jump off a 8 meter cliff? I happen to be currently living on a mountain side in California. The front of my house is one story. The backside is almost four.

The rear deck is 30 feet to the dirt below. Will I jump? NOT A F***ing chance. You have got to have me in a situation where either I die or I jump first. If you want to try out the second floor of a A380, I can give you a good view of what 28 feet looks like.

My concern is what happens when a A380 crashes, as one will, and those on the upper deck can't get off for what ever reason.

This is exactly why Boeing said "no thank you" to the two deck design

IS THE SECOND DECK ESCAPE REAL? I don't know. But if the wind blows those slides around, many will die, if there is problem.

I, personally, will not fly on the upper deck of a A 380 until I know that the damn slide are good for the way out.

IF I ever get on a A380, it will be on the lower deck only.
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Poitin
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 2):
If their test fails, people will lose a lot of faith in A380. I'm guessing they just want to be doubly sure the test will work.

I prey to God that is EXACTLY what they are doing. The A 380 may be a great airplane, but I want it RIGHT!
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N79969
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:51 am

That post-gazette article is excellent. Thanks for posting it.

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 4):
Why is there so little information on the A380 right now?

That is the question I have had lately...there is precious little information about what is happening with the A380 from Airbus.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:00 am

Perhaps the experience of the crash upon landing of the AF A340 in Toronto last August is being intergrated into their testing and evac plans for the A380. While a fairly full a/c, and with limited access to escape, all were off within 90 seconds and A may be using the reports on that event for the A380's evac plans. That the 15M + long upper deck escape chute has a problem in windy conditions is a serious issue that may take some engineering work to figure out without a significant weight or safety penalty.
 
N79969
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:03 am

I just realized how much Airbus has at stake. If they are forced to cut seat counts, that would have, to put it mildly, a bad effect on the airplane's operating economics and consequently could hurt sales.
 
sllevin
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:47 am

I'd be surprised if there are any issues for the current users of the A380: that is, where a max capacity of 600 would cover operations.

The 800+ numbers will matter to potential, future operators like Corsair, but right now, those operators are probably 8-10 years off (at least).

Steve
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:00 pm

If the A380 fails it's evacuation test, some of the orders could be cancelled. Future sales could sink, they could have to delay sales even further, which might send some customers to the updated, but highly proven 747-8. If they can't evacuate it effectively, the FAA likely won't give it a thumbs up. Far worse though, can you imagine a catastrophic A380 crash? If it had 550 on board and they all died, it would become right away the worst single aviation disaster ever in terms of loss of life, even worse than the Azore island collision of two 747s. Moreover, if this test doesn't work, you know the press, especially the American press, will be all over it, and people won't feel safe on the A380. No airline is buying a jet people won't feel safe flying on.

Airbus took a huge gamble developing this aircraft on a scale that had never been done before, and doing a full second deck. Boeing looked at stretching the second level of 747 all the way back and abandoned it, Douglas tried a full length double decker with MD-12, but airlines refused, sighting likely safety issues. Airlines finally warmed up and gave Airbus their trust on this one, if the safety fails, airbus is a whole lot of screwed.
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N79969
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:10 pm

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 12):
I'd be surprised if there are any issues for the current users of the A380: that is, where a max capacity of 600 would cover operations.

My point is that if they don't get certification at 853 (or whatever it was) then they will have to certify for a lesser number. Until that number is firmed up, then there could be some doubt as which configurations are considered safe and which may be over the limit.

I am not sure how the test works. Say for instance if they do not get approval for 853, will have they have to set a new goal and test for that? Or do they automatically attain some lower level certification based on the test data and inferences drawn?
 
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zeke
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting Poitin (Reply 6):
My concern is what happens when a A380 crashes, as one will, and those on the upper deck can't get off for what ever reason.

This is exactly why Boeing said "no thank you" to the two deck design

IS THE SECOND DECK ESCAPE REAL? I don't know. But if the wind blows those slides around, many will die, if there is problem.

I, personally, will not fly on the upper deck of a A 380 until I know that the damn slide are good for the way out.

IF I ever get on a A380, it will be on the lower deck only.

I have seen video of people going down A380 upper deck slides on a test rig (I believe in the USA), it just looked like another slide, nothing special. The height of the slide is not that much different to the 747 upper deck. Getting all the people down the slide safely in the required time was easy without injury (on the video), I think the people involved were workers from the factory.

When the 747 did its original certification, they didn’t evacuate people from the upper deck via slides, they did it via an internal staircase. I remember reading in a UK CAA document that the 747 upper deck slides were never demonstrated in a test for the 747-400, it was done by analysis.

Personally I like jumping down the slides, and the wet drills some of the more enjoyable part of emergency training, the books get a bit dry.
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ER757
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:36 pm

Quoting Poitin (Reply 6):
This is exactly why Boeing said "no thank you" to the two deck design

Ummm - have you ever seen a 747? People have to exit from the 2nd deck via slides there as well in an emergency evac test.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 13):
even worse than the Azore island collision of two 747s.

Just an FYI - it was Tenerife in the Canary Islands.
 
Ken777
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:53 pm

I have no doubts that Airbus is testing the slides in various wind conditions to see how they are impacted by higher winds. It's the engineers job to get the final slide design to work in almost all weather conditions and I'm sure they will.

Airbus also has the opportunity to have various people (stunt men and women from the movie industry would be a good group to work with) to test various conditions inside the plane (such as smoke inside the cabin) and the different ways pax will be going down those slides. Now all will do it by the book and Airbus will be looking at expanding their knowledge base.

By the time that they are ready for the tests it may well be that they go for a lower number of pax to ensure that they can beat the 90 second limit. The initial need is to safely cover the pax loads that initial airlines will be configuring their planes at and these airlines will be looking at lower time limits - maybe in the 75 - 80 second range for their pax levels.

The 380 is a big plane, but it may be better off taking small steps in critical areas like this.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:19 pm

The upper deck door of a B747 is up to 7.9m from ground depending on a/c weight. If they managed to pass the test on the B744, I do not think there is any issue with the A380.

[Edited 2006-01-30 05:20:48]
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
moparman
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:32 pm

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 18):
If they managed to pass the test on the B744, I do not think there is any issue with the A380.

perhaps... the upper deck doesn't seat nearly the number of people. I believe the upper deck is evacuated down the stairs. I am trying to remember what the FA said the only time I flew on the upper deck of a B744 which was on LH in January 2003.
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APFPilot1985
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:34 pm

Quoting Moparman (Reply 19):
perhaps... the upper deck doesn't seat nearly the number of people. I believe the upper deck is evacuated down the stairs. I am trying to remember what the FA said the only time I flew on the upper deck of a B744 which was on LH in January 2003.

Primary evacuation is down the stairs
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WingedMigrator
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:46 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 10):
That the 15M + long upper deck escape chute has a problem in windy conditions is a serious issue

You are quoting this as fact when the point of this thread is to establish a credible source for this rumor, if it has any basis in fact. So maybe you've got the inside source we're all looking for?
 
jumboforever
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:50 pm

Quoting Poitin (Thread starter):
However, I have seen one report that in November 2005, they tried to deploy the evacuation slides on the A380 in a wind and the upper slides blew around. No, I do not have the reference. If anyone does, please post it.

Just to put light on this, FAR 14 CFR 25.810 regulation stipulates among others that slides ' must have the capability, in 25-knot winds directed from the most critical angle, to deploy and, with the assistance of only one person, to remain usable after full deployment to evacuate occupants safely to the ground'. However, on the NTSB report about SQ006 accident in CKS, it's written that 'the strong wind blew the [Upper left door] slide over the top of the fuselage rendering the slide unusable.'

I highly doubt that the upper deck slides of the A380 in a way they couldn't comply with the 25-knot rules. Slides could have been tested way before the completion of the first A380 prototype, and its design shouldn't be that different from the one of the B744 upper-deck.

However, in the same NTSB report it's written that The Safety Concil concludes that the aviation industry and responsible government agencies should consider those risk and develop methods to reduce them (2.6.2.1 - Wind Limit of the Slides).

Considering that SQ is a customer of the A380 and obviously concerned about security after this terrible accident, shouldn't it be that Airbus is testing the slides in worst wind condition. Therefore the possible problem you mentioned above.

FYI the weather reported on CKS ATIS before this accident was 020° at 28knots, gusting to 50.

Regards,

JumboForever
 
Skydrol
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:00 pm

Thanks for posting the wind criteria for the certification tests, JumboForever.

I was going to joke that Airbus is waiting for a totally calm day...  Smile

Or maybe they need to wait for a day with 25 knot winds??

Would that be a requirement for testing - worst case scenario?




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leelaw
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:36 pm

FYI, the "Post-Gazette" article is a re-print of a front page Wall Street Journal article published last spring (3/22/05).

This article from the Arizona Republic is interesting as well:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...ess/articles/0331evacslides31.html
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Dreamflight767
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:56 pm

A question and kinda strange thought here, I'm stretching my imagination.

So say the evac. tests fails and couldn't be fixed. Do you think that A-380 could be built "upside down"? I mean what if the far upper level would be used to hold cargo, luggage, ect., while the main and lower decks where for pax. Kinda like the L-1011 had the lounge where cargo would normally go.

Or what if...

Simply the upper deck held cargo while the main deck was for pax. And the far lower section remained for some cargo, luggage, ect.

Think it would cost way to much and it is too late to do a redesign like this?
 
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zeke
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:07 pm

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 26):
With SQ positioned as an upscale airline I doubt that, after installing all the first and business paradises, there will be enough room left to fit in a total of 750.

The SQ and QF fits are for 450-500 pax on the A380.

The easy bit about these tests are getting people down the slides, the hard bit is getting them from the seat out the door.

Boeing successfully argued for numerous models it didn’t need a full scale test, they were done by analysis. The argument went along the lines, we added another two type C exits, that allowed X number of people in test Y, so an additional X number or people could exit by the addition of an extra two type C doors (only half the doors are considered for the tests).

I think the logical way to do this test would be to do one floor at a time, more resources would then be available is something did go wrong, and it would be easier to monitor the test. I would think if you were to do this you would still need to blow all the slides on the other floor (worst case), and have the equivalent number of people from the floor waiting at the base of the slide.

Maybe follow that up with the full aircraft if any doubt existed.
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oldeuropean
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:20 pm

Quoting Dreamflight767 (Reply 43):
So say the evac. tests fails and couldn't be fixed.

Be sure, it won`t fail.

I love the discussions of all these aviation specialists here in this forum.

Axel

[Edited 2006-01-30 09:22:42]
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Markhkg
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:30 pm

This is what another, newer, article says:

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/b...ion_of_giant_new_Airbus_in_October


Jan 15th 2006

"The agency will also be closely watching a test evacuation of a prototype Airbus in Hamburg, which some sources had suggested would take place this month. Inspectors require 853 passengers to scramble out of the plane in pitch darkness and slide down chutes in 90 seconds."

I have to wonder "which sources" they are talking about though.
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Maersk737
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:37 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 31):
This article from the Arizona Republic is interesting as well:

It looks as if Goodrich, at least last year, were very confident that the slides would work properly  Wink


Cheers

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edina
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:21 pm

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 19):
Quoting Moparman (Reply 19):
perhaps... the upper deck doesn't seat nearly the number of people. I believe the upper deck is evacuated down the stairs. I am trying to remember what the FA said the only time I flew on the upper deck of a B744 which was on LH in January 2003.

Primary evacuation is down the stairs

Under JAA regs in Europe the primary evacuation route is via the Upper Deck doors.....only in a ditching would the stairs & main deck doors be used.
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klmcedric
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:44 pm

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 19):
Primary evacuation is down the stairs

If an evacuation occurs on land, primary evac means are the slides on the
upperdeck.
If it occurs on sea, pax on the upperdeck should evacuate from the main
deck.In such a situation the slides should only be deployed if no other means
of escape are possible, e.g. fire downstairs.
The reason for this , is that the slidepack on the upperdeck doors can
not be used as a raft, after evacuation on sea.
On the A380 all upperdeck doors will need to be fitted whit a more complicated
slide/raft pack. Engineers have to build a slidesystem that can safely be
detached from the aircraft and lowered to sea to be used as a liferaft for
the PAX. This has never been necessary on the 747.
Saying that if they did it on the 747, they'll do it on the A380, is comparing
apples and pears, it's a different situation.
 
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glideslope
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Quoting N79969 (Reply 8):
That is the question I have had lately...there is precious little information about what is happening with the A380 from Airbus.

Most likely it's that there really is not much going on. IMO, A LOT of energy is going into the evacuation test. I agree with the previous poster that this test is actually more important than First Flight in some ways.

I also wondered about the effect of wind on the upper slides. Could be a big issue, and a reason for the delays, or not.
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glideslope
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:53 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 29):
I think these tests are too easy.

In a real world environment..

Airbus need to simulate 853 Wheelchair bound passengers all blindfolded jumping backwards from the upper deck whilst holding a poodle and a tyre pump.

Only then can the test be true and valid.

If this fails, then they need to simulate 2413 fedex packages all fitted with electric springs and jumping from the cockpit, but only as long as they have a return address.

Be careful what you wish for. The FAA monitors A.net.  Smile
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jetfuel
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:56 pm

I also read that a german soccer team (or similarly fit people) would be used to do the testing.

To me this is crasy, as a typical load consists of 5% drunk people, mothers with babies, children, and a number of elederly people.

The tests should be conducted with a cross section of passengers NOT sportspeople
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jush
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:02 pm

Quoting Poitin (Reply 6):
The rear deck is 30 feet to the dirt below. Will I jump? NOT A F***ing chance. You have got to have me in a situation where either I die or I jump first. If you want to try out the second floor of a A380, I can give you a good view of what 28 feet looks like.

I tell you what. If the airplane is on fire I'm sure you'll get your ass out of there.
And a slide has an angle. You're not gonna drop 28 feet right down. You slide.

Regds
jush
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RichardPrice
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:06 pm

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 34):
I also read that a german soccer team (or similarly fit people) would be used to do the testing.

To me this is crasy, as a typical load consists of 5% drunk people, mothers with babies, children, and a number of elederly people.

The tests should be conducted with a cross section of passengers NOT sportspeople

If you demand that, the tests would never ever get done. How many mothers are going to volunteer their newborn babies for participation in a distressing and potentially dangerous test.

Same for old people.

The tests are a best case scenario, notice how they also dont set the aircraft onfire, or collapse half the undercarraige to induce a tilt, or dump the aircraft in the middle of the atlantic with a raging storm going on.
 
sparkingwave
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting Poitin (Reply 6):
IF I ever get on a A380, it will be on the lower deck only.

Yes, but what about in a situation during a crash, where the upper deck would collapse on the lower deck? This happened to the SQ 747-400 when it smashed to the ground on takeoff in Taipei. You won't have a chance if the ceiling + those passengers seated above you fall on your head...

Quoting Dreamflight767 (Reply 24):
I mean what if the far upper level would be used to hold cargo, luggage, ect., while the main and lower decks where for pax.

All that weight - again, if the upper deck level collapsed on you in a crash, you won't even have a second, much less 90 seconds, to escape.

SparkingWave
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redcordes
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 pm

It will be interesting to see if the 90 sec. mark can be met with psychologically and physically prepared subjects who are well-instructed and anticipating the scenario. Any of you who have worked from ladders, etc. or dived into water know that looking up at 28 ft looks like 50 ft when you're up there looking down. A fall from 28 ft to pavement is easily fatal, so human instinct is to hesitate. In the real world when they have to "help" grandma make up her mind, it's going to get ugly. Boeing always had numerous injuries when they did these tests on the 747. Airbus surely has anticipated all this, and the test will be successful. It would be great if some videos could be posted.
"The only source of knowledge is experience." A. Einstein "Science w/o religion is lame. Religion w/o science is blind."
 
jonathan-l
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:23 am

Quoting Redcordes (Reply 37):
Any of you who have worked from ladders, etc. or dived into water know that looking up at 28 ft looks like 50 ft when you're up there looking down

I heard that the upper slides had a "cover" to them over the first few feet. So that when you jump onto the slide, you cannot see the ground, just the top of the cover.
 
redcordes
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

Very good idea! That will be a big help.
"The only source of knowledge is experience." A. Einstein "Science w/o religion is lame. Religion w/o science is blind."
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:16 am

Oh well. Thats that then. Its all over for the A380 - off to the Desert for you.

Shame on Airbus for not realising the safety implications of having such a big plane when this idea was cooked up. They didnt bother thinking about safety, they just built the thing with no procedures, contingencies, or new systems in place - its just a aluminium coffin. All that State aid, and they didnt put the necessary safety equipment in? Have we not moved on since the days of the Titanic or the R101? It would seem not.

Good job the a-net fraternity was there to point out their glaring error. The Aviation world thanks you for pointing out Airbus's error and saving probably thousands of lives.

Good job people!
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
RiddlePilot215
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 1):
Well, one reason for the delays is very straightforward: These tests are conducted in Hamburg, and therefore the plane must be flown from Toulouse to Hamburg to get the cabin fitted. This didn't happen for a long time as the test programme was delayed, therefore the evacuation tests are delayed, as well.

Apart from that, I think A should be given time to evaluate everything before they do the real test. This test can be dangerous, therefore all risks must be taken care of before.

And for some reason that seems more like something to hide behind to keep pushing back a date. It's a great stall tactic..."We can't do the test because our facilities we need to do the test with are at point a....but we're currently sending all our planes on a worldwide media blitz ::looks around room::...and they'll be umm....gone for a...while..yeah...gone for awhile"

IMO, I don't think it's possible to get 500 people off an airplane in 90 seconds, LET alone the proposed 800+ that Airbus foresees being able to eventually squeeze into the cabin of that aircraft. Just do the math, it's physically impossible given the circumstances. 550 people? Normal human reaction time under a normal set of stimuli is usually what? 2 seconds? Under stress it's even more, and under extreme duress (ie. plane crash), it's even longer. Plus the time it takes to assess the situation, how to mitigate the situation, and how to find a quick resolve can EASILY take nearly 20-30 seconds per PERSON. And let's be realisitc here folks, nobody is going to calmly walk inside a crushed/ burning/ sinking fuselage, they're going to be running, or more descriptively, trampling one another trying to save their own lives.

The A380 is an oversized novelty item. If by ushering in a new age of "flight" we mean taking nearly an hour and a half to board and unload the plane, backup already slow and inefficient security checkpoints, stressing the baggage screening system to its already dismal capacity, and causing more traveling headaches than French Customs agents looking over an American Passport(Oh I have stories...), and a safety margin that when all lights are green is simply amazing, but when the 'ish hits the peverbial fan...all bets are off...This plane is bound to go the way of the Dassault Mecure  Smile, or perhaps the Concorde.

That's just my 2 cents
God is good, all the time. All the time, God is good.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting RiddlePilot215 (Reply 41):
The A380 is an oversized novelty item. If by ushering in a new age of "flight" we mean taking nearly an hour and a half to board and unload the plane, backup already slow and inefficient security checkpoints, stressing the baggage screening system to its already dismal capacity, and causing more traveling headaches than French Customs agents looking over an American Passport(Oh I have stories...), and a safety margin that when all lights are green is simply amazing, but when the 'ish hits the peverbial fan...all bets are off...This plane is bound to go the way of the Dassault Mecure , or perhaps the Concorde

See above.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting RiddlePilot215 (Reply 41):
IMO, I don't think it's possible to get 500 people off an airplane in 90 seconds, LET alone the proposed 800+ that Airbus foresees being able to eventually squeeze into the cabin of that aircraft. Just do the math, it's physically impossible given the circumstances. 550 people? Normal human reaction time under a normal set of stimuli is usually what? 2 seconds? Under stress it's even more, and under extreme duress (ie. plane crash), it's even longer. Plus the time it takes to assess the situation, how to mitigate the situation, and how to find a quick resolve can EASILY take nearly 20-30 seconds per PERSON. And let's be realisitc here folks, nobody is going to calmly walk inside a crushed/ burning/ sinking fuselage, they're going to be running, or more descriptively, trampling one another trying to save their own lives.

JAL operate the 747 in a 500+ high density configuration, and the SP had capacity for 550 seats, so its certainly possible to get that number of people out the door, and considering the A380 has more doors .... well, lets do the math.

16 doors on a A380, 850 passengers. Thats 53 passengers per door, easily enough to get out in 90 seconds.

8 doors on a 747 SP, 550 passengers. Thats 68 passengers per door.
10 doors on a 747 SP with upper deck doors, 550 passengers. Thats still 55 passengers per door.

And you are saying Airbus is going to have issues?
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:34 am

Richard - do you mean the SR version rather than the SP?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
rpaillard
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:38 am

I heard some weeks ago at the radio that Airbus had hard time to find women on the 50/60 as volunteers. This kind of women is mandatory as a category to have a realistic sample of PAX.

That said, I am not sure that the source is that reliable, so ...
FLY SKYTEAM JETS
 
Oryx
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 33):
I also read that a german soccer team (or similarly fit people) would be used to do the testing.

To me this is crasy, as a typical load consists of 5% drunk people, mothers with babies, children, and a number of elederly people.

The tests should be conducted with a cross section of passengers NOT sportspeople

The mix of the volunteers for the evacuation test, including the percentage of elderlies, is defined by the safety authorities, similar to the wind of 25 knots.

Besides, eleven football players weighing 200lbs each, scared to death and confined in a smoke filled barrel is nothing I would like to stumble over.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 44):
Richard - do you mean the SR version rather than the SP?

Hmm, interesting, misread it as SP!

So the SR has 12 doors if the upper deck door options are taken, which gives you 46 passengers per door. Still pretty damn close to the A380s ratio.
 
leelaw
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:01 am

Quoting Rpaillard (Reply 45):
I heard some weeks ago at the radio that Airbus had hard time to find women on the 50/60 as volunteers. This kind of women is mandatory as a category to have a realistic sample of PAX.

.

I'm confident a representive and adequate "volunteer" pool for evacuation testing has been identified since at least last summer, when the tests were originally scheduled to take place. IIRC, the revised test schedule (post program delay) announced last summer anticipated completion of emergency evacuation testing by the end of February 2006; whereupon, MSN002 would join the flight-test program sometime in March 2006. Now, there are media reports that evacuation testing won't commence until March, because necessary cabin fittings are delayed. How all this impacts the progress of the overall flight-test campaign will be interesting.
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 47):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 44):
Richard - do you mean the SR version rather than the SP?

Hmm, interesting, misread it as SP!

So the SR has 12 doors if the upper deck door options are taken, which gives you 46 passengers per door. Still pretty damn close to the A380s ratio.

I was going to say - 500+ on an SP may be a little tight!
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???

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