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rpaillard
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:57 am

RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 48):
I'm confident a representive and adequate "volunteer" pool

Thanks for this precision. As stated, the source is not 100% reliable, as often with media.
FLY SKYTEAM JETS
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4478
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:43 am

Flug revue stated the following:

10% of all volunteers must be above 50 years. All will be recruited from Sport clubs in Hamburg.

So, yes, they probably are trained, but would you recruit WW1 veterans for this test? Probably not.
 
Poitin
Topic Author
Posts: 2651
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting JumboForever (Reply 21):
Just to put light on this, FAR 14 CFR 25.810 regulation stipulates among others that slides ' must have the capability, in 25-knot winds directed from the most critical angle, to deploy and, with the assistance of only one person, to remain usable after full deployment to evacuate occupants safely to the ground'.

Thank you! I knew someone out there knew something  Smile

Quoting Jush (Reply 34):
I tell you what. If the airplane is on fire I'm sure you'll get your ass out of there.
And a slide has an angle. You're not gonna drop 28 feet right down. You slide.

That is what I said, and why I would fly the lower deck  Smile

Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 38):
I heard that the upper slides had a "cover" to them over the first few feet. So that when you jump onto the slide, you cannot see the ground, just the top of the cover.

That is what the Goodrich people said. All psychological. And a damn fine idea.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 43):
16 doors on a A380, 850 passengers. Thats 53 passengers per door, easily enough to get out in 90 seconds.

The test is for 1/2 of the doors only. They will load all 853 people, who are average passenger types and not the acrobats some of you think (see the first article I noted at the thread head). Then half the doors will be selected by the testing authority, the slides opened and tested for safety, and they do the test. This means only 8 doors will be used, and that is something like 1.6 passengers per door per second, and many of them over 50 years of age.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 52):
The test is for 1/2 of the doors only. They will load all 853 people, who are average passenger types and not the acrobats some of you think (see the first article I noted at the thread head). Then half the doors will be selected by the testing authority, the slides opened and tested for safety, and they do the test. This means only 8 doors will be used, and that is something like 1.6 passengers per door per second, and many of them over 50 years of age.

I know about the door restrictions, but I was talking in general terms. Having half the doors shut doesnt really change the fact that a 747 with a similiar passenger to door ratio can be certified fine.

Since the doors are built to allow two abreast, getting 1.6 passengers out per second is actually fairly easy  Smile You just have to keep the passengers flowing.
 
starguy
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:50 am

I think that a major factor is being forgotten with many of the comments. Fully trained F/A's are going to be used. Being cabin crew myself, I have seen a boeing test evacuation video and I have to say that I was shocked at just how... 'persuasive' the F/A were when evacuating.

We don't get on the P/A and say calmly; "Ladies and gentlemen, we would like to ask for everybody's attention. An emergency situation has arisen and as a result, we have to evacuate this aircraft. Please now unfasten you seatbelt and calmly proceed to the nearest exit"

In reality, we will be screaming at the top of our lungs "unfastened your seatbelts and GET OUT!" "JUMP, JUMP, JUMP" Aiming for roughly one per second from each exit. Anyone that hesitates gets a 'gentle' nudge from the F/A. We don't pussyfoot around.

Maybe Airbus won't get their 800+ target, But I have no doubt in my mind that they will get a huge percentage of their target out in time.
 
NYC777
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:51 am

I could see John Leahy in the plane during the test just shoving people out the door, doesn't matter if they go down the slide...just as long as they're out the door!!
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
magyar
Posts: 528
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:53 am

Dear Poitin,

>>
The rear deck is 30 feet to the dirt below. Will I jump? NOT A F***ing chance. You have got to have me in a situation where either I die or I jump first.
<<

If you ever have to jump you most likely WILL be in a
situation where your either die or jump. Or at least you
will truely believe that you are in that situation.
 
Poitin
Topic Author
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 53):
I know about the door restrictions, but I was talking in general terms. Having half the doors shut doesnt really change the fact that a 747 with a similiar passenger to door ratio can be certified fine.

I agree with the above, in real-world terms. And to be honest, 90 seconds is a bit abitrary. You might have minutes to get out or no time at all in a real incident.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 55):
I could see John Leahy in the plane during the test just shoving people out the door, doesn't matter if they go down the slide...just as long as they're out the door!!

Leahy: Slide? F*ck the slide!

I jest  Smile
 
starguy
Posts: 260
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 55):
I could see John Leahy in the plane during the test just shoving people out the door, doesn't matter if they go down the slide...just as long as they're out the door!!

The test evacuation that I saw was a boeing 737 and the F/A's were literally just pushing people out of the door. People went down the slide head first, you name it. You could hear people shouting out loud as they were sustaining injuries during the process. A huge pile of people gathered at the bottom of the slide at one point and people on the ground had to offer some serious help.
 
YukonTrader
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 51):
10% of all volunteers must be above 50 years. All will be recruited from Sport clubs in Hamburg. So, yes, they probably are trained, but would you recruit WW1 veterans for this test? Probably not.

Remember, the test also serves to establish what maximum passenger number the airplane can legally be configured for. Therefore, the authoritative rules on the passenger mix are pretty exact with regards to the gender and age mix. Similarily, the procedure per se is exactly defined - it must happen in a pitch dark hangar to simulate an evacuation at night with no external references helping passengers find their way out of the cabin.

It has been suggested that Airbus Industrie will go for a high number of volunteers - some sources in the industry quote a number close to 900 - in order to already pave the way for future high-densitiy versions of the 380. If that number was indeed confirmed it would suggest that more souls than seats were aboard for the evacuation test... But be aware that this test cannot be a 1:1 simulation of an evacuation anyways, as the volunteers know beforehand what is going to happen, and are "jumping ship" as soon as ordered to do so.

Whatever the number of (well prepared) people will be that manage to exit any make of aircraft within the given 90 seconds: If a version with a higher capacity is required, then additional doors / exits need to be fitted for the aircraft in question (example: The high-densitiy B767-200 of Britannia / Thomsonfly in the UK with their non-standard additional overwing exits - 2 each side instead of one).

Cheers, Lukas
 
Pope
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:02 am

I simply don't understand many of you on this board. Why is it that whenever there is a problem in development of an aircraft, people get all worked up. There's only so much that you can solve in a computer. That's why you build test aircraft.

Do the slides work today. I have no idea. Am I sure they'll solve whatever problems exist before a single paying passenger steps on the plane. Of course. Let the engineers do their jobs.

History is full of example of how problems have led to very interesting solutions that have benefitted all.

Whether you like Airbus or Boeing planes, it is actually good that the manufacturers constantly leap frog one another because it raises the bar for the other. The 747 was and is a great plane. If the A380 is a good plane it in now way diminishes that greatness. However it will and has made Boeing go back an see how it can improve its offering. I assure you the 747-800 is a better plane because Airbus exists. In the absence of competition, manufacturers generally have no incentive to improve their offering in capital intensive industries like aviation.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
SafetyDude
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:03 am

Is there any word on if Airbus will be able to do the test in 94 seconds? Some raised the point that because of scientific notation (90 seconds not being 90.0), 94 seconds is the "same" as 90.

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
Poitin
Topic Author
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting Magyar (Reply 56):
If you ever have to jump you most likely WILL be in a
situation where your either die or jump. Or at least you
will truely believe that you are in that situation.

Absolutely TRUE. Which is why I'm flying the lower deck only.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:46 am

The test says 90 seconds to clear nearly 900 people. If you have 12 doors opened right away, you're still cramming a person out each door every 1.2 seconds. How often are aircraft evacuated that effectively? Never. Once maybe, when an Airfrance A340 skidded off a runway and caught fire, might have been in toronto, they managed to have the plane evacuated in 90 seconds. Any other crash I can think of, it rarely works that well. I remember seeing a video some university did once on air safety procedure where they were evacuating a 737 with a group of random off the street volunteers, given no instruction past what the flight attendants and the safety card say. It took the poor guy in the exit row atleast 15-20 seconds to get the door open and moved out of the way. People were all over the place, it was anything but orderly.

My point is this, even if Airbus uses extremely well briefed, trained, and physically fit people, if they can get them all out of that thing in 90 seconds, it seems fairly solid. It proves it can be done, and that the plane doesn't create an issue. The issue of evacuating a widebody is typically panicked people and disorganization.

And evacuating a 747 is a totally different game than evacuating an A380. 747 seats a few people upstairs, a few, not a few hundred. On 747, the run down stairs to get out, A380 they have to get out some fairly sophisticated slides.

Hopefully it works for them. I think the real test will be if the airlines accept the validity of the test. As strict as the FAA is, the worst thing that can happen to an airline is a fatal accident, especially one that can be blamed on them. If the airlines buy the A380 as safe, i'd buy it too.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
jacobin777
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 61):
Whether you like Airbus or Boeing planes, it is actually good that the manufacturers constantly leap frog one another because it raises the bar for the other. The 747 was and is a great plane. If the A380 is a good plane it in now way diminishes that greatness. However it will and has made Boeing go back an see how it can improve its offering. I assure you the 747-800 is a better plane because Airbus exists. In the absence of competition, manufacturers generally have no incentive to improve their offering in capital intensive industries like aviation.

who ever said that The A380 wasn't a technological marvel?  confused ...its an amazing aircraft...but we discuss this particular topic because its a BIG variable, and if its not excuted properly, then Airbus will be in BIG trouble....in fact, I would have to say this is a bigger challenge than making the plane fly....many had said making a plane this big fly wasn't the greatest challenge..

look at all the other challenges Airbus has besides flying it..logistics, weight, vortex, competition, etc.

how they will do, I dont' know..but it will be interesting to see the results..

from what I remember from the Discovery Channel program (the one hosted by John Travolta), they will have 2 attempts at it, and the doors which will open will not be known in advance by the pax (someone correct me if I'm wrong here though)

Quoting SafetyDude (Reply 62):
Is there any word on if Airbus will be able to do the test in 94 seconds? Some raised the point that because of scientific notation (90 seconds not being 90.0), 94 seconds is the "same" as 90.

good call..but I think ninty means ninty...just like a stop sign means stop..not rolling stop, not a 1/2-stop..but a stop!  Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 64):

You seem to be missing the point. The 900 person aim is purely that - a goal. Every aircraft certified to date is certified for a LOT more passengers than 99% of airlines will ever consider providing seats for, for example nearly all A380 customers have settled on the 555 seat layout.

Every person Airbus can get out of that aircraft over the break even yield point means more passenger carrying ability that the airlines can play with, and thats a good thing as far as economics is concerned. It means that although they will initially fit their aircraft with 555 seats, they can go to 655 if they wanted to.

And believe me, they will easily get 555 people out of the aircraft in 90 seconds, its everything above that thats really a bonus.

As I said in a previous reply, this is a best case scenario - they arent dropping the aircraft in the middle of the atlantic whilst a hurricane is blowing just to see if the aircraft can be evacuated into rafts.

I do think people are worried over nothing with regard to the second level.
 
RiddlePilot215
Posts: 280
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 43):
JAL operate the 747 in a 500+ high density configuration, and the SP had capacity for 550 seats, so its certainly possible to get that number of people out the door, and considering the A380 has more doors .... well, lets do the math.

16 doors on a A380, 850 passengers. Thats 53 passengers per door, easily enough to get out in 90 seconds.

8 doors on a 747 SP, 550 passengers. Thats 68 passengers per door.
10 doors on a 747 SP with upper deck doors, 550 passengers. Thats still 55 passengers per door.

And you are saying Airbus is going to have issues?

Yeah, but HALF the people aren't stranded nearly 4 stories in the sky. Emergency or not, I don't know too many people who are going to jump down a safety chute that high in the air, and expect to land 'safely' at the bottom.
God is good, all the time. All the time, God is good.
 
CMHSRQ
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:20 am

What I heard from a reliable source at my company is that when the 380 is fully loaded some of the doors can't be opened. They are jammed or squished shut. This might be a factor as well.
The voice of moderation
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting RiddlePilot215 (Reply 67):

Take a look at the following image, I cant see anything that presents a problem.



[Edited 2006-01-30 21:23:59]
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 68):
What I heard from a reliable source at my company is that when the 380 is fully loaded some of the doors can't be opened. They are jammed or squished shut. This might be a factor as well.

Uhm, huh?
 
A319XFW
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 68):
What I heard from a reliable source at my company is that when the 380 is fully loaded some of the doors can't be opened. They are jammed or squished shut. This might be a factor as well.

That has been solved - all it was the first time the aircraft was fuelled up, the fuselage distorted slightly due to the extra weight and the doors were re-adjusted.
Problem solved.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 69):
Take a look at the following image, I cant see anything that presents a problem.

The slide for lower-deck rear door seems a bit tricky?  Smile
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:40 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 72):
The slide for lower-deck rear door seems a bit tricky?

You made the same mistake I first did, the bit to the left is the door itself (open) the actual doorway is in the centre of the slide, you can just make out the black opening.

 Smile
 
starguy
Posts: 260
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:44 pm

RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 73):
You made the same mistake I first did, the bit to the left is the door itself (open) the actual doorway is in the centre of the slide, you can just make out the black opening.

Eyes of a hawk. I hadn't noticed that. I thought it looked a bit wierd!
 
strudders
Posts: 83
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:54 am

I wonder what speed the top deck passengers will be doing by the time they reach the bottom.....?

I guess it will be interesting to see how the crew stop them flying off the end and across the tarmac....

Regards

Struds
 
Poitin
Topic Author
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 73):
Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 73):
You made the same mistake I first did, the bit to the left is the door itself (open) the actual doorway is in the centre of the slide, you can just make out the black opening.

Eyes of a hawk. I hadn't noticed that. I thought it looked a bit wierd!

Maybe Airbus should paint the inside of that door white, like the rest. I dropped the image in to Photoshop and zoomed in. That black spot is the door, while the doorway is as King Richard is as he claims.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
RedDragon
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 64):
The test says 90 seconds to clear nearly 900 people. If you have 12 doors opened right away, you're still cramming a person out each door every 1.2 seconds. How often are aircraft evacuated that effectively? Never. Once maybe... I remember seeing a video some university did once on air safety procedure where they were evacuating a 737 with a group of random off the street volunteers, given no instruction past what the flight attendants and the safety card say ...it was anything but orderly.

The test may not be that realistic, but it's a standardised benchmark that every design is put through. There have to be some conditions set so as to determine a safe seatcount limit.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 64):
And evacuating a 747 is a totally different game than evacuating an A380. On 747, the run down stairs to get out, A380 they have to get out some fairly sophisticated slides.

Not in Europe they don't, by the look of things in this very thread. Besides, why would some "fairly sophisticated" slides be an impediment to a swift evacuation? They're specifically designed to shield the view of the ground from the door threshold.

Rich
 
leelaw
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 77):
They're specifically designed to shield the view of the ground from the door threshold.

I'm not sure I see the "shields" in the picture RichardPrice posted?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
A319XFW
Posts: 1519
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:04 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 78):
I'm not sure I see the "shields" in the picture RichardPrice posted?

Perhaps because that model looks quite old (at least 1 year) and the slides have evolved since then...? Or they couldn't fit all the details on the model.
 
starguy
Posts: 260
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:44 pm

RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:08 am

Quoting Strudders (Reply 75):
I wonder what speed the top deck passengers will be doing by the time they reach the bottom.....?

I guess it will be interesting to see how the crew stop them flying off the end and across the tarmac....

There is deceleration pad at the bottom of the slide that slows you right down.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 76):
Maybe Airbus should paint the inside of that door white, like the rest. I dropped the image in to Photoshop and zoomed in. That black spot is the door, while the doorway is as King Richard is as he claims.

The doors open so that the front is still outward, the white outline you see is the plug type seal that stops the doors opening in flight, while the rest of the door still shows the usual outside livery. Painting the doors inside white wouldnt make it any easier to spot in that photo as you still wouldnt be able to see it  Smile

No need to kneel in my presence.
 
Poitin
Topic Author
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:30 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 81):
The doors open so that the front is still outward, the white outline you see is the plug type seal that stops the doors opening in flight, while the rest of the door still shows the usual outside livery. Painting the doors inside white wouldnt make it any easier to spot in that photo as you still wouldnt be able to see it Smile

No need to kneel in my presence.

Maybe not, but they should fix the bloody model! I think they just glued the last slide on it too far back. Looking at a real a380 you can see that the rear door is just inside of the dark blue band on the tail

http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRheft/FRHeft04/FRH0407/FR0407h.htm
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 82):
Maybe not, but they should fix the bloody model! I think they just glued the last slide on it too far back. Looking at a real a380 you can see that the rear door is just inside of the dark blue band on the tail

You are right, the actual door is in the wrong position on that model. Maybe its an early development model that the makers had to work with - just proof that things have changed since they got the contract.
 
Poitin
Topic Author
Posts: 2651
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 83):
You are right, the actual door is in the wrong position on that model. Maybe its an early development model that the makers had to work with - just proof that things have changed since they got the contract.

You are correct. The model is out of date, but still informative.

I am looking for a photo of the "shield" at the top of the slide Goodrich added to keep people from panicking. As someone with acrophobia, I would be a problem in that situation. Funny thing, is as long as an airplane is is wrapped around me I'm okay. Spins, loops, inverted, no problems. And on the one parachute trip I took, I was okay after the canope opened, but that first 100 feet -- OOOOOH!  eek 
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
Continental
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:08 am

If you're on the slide from the top, aren't you just gonna be flying by the time you reach the bottom? Or will they have a slowing area like on a slip-n-slide?  Smile
 
starguy
Posts: 260
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:44 pm

RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting Continental (Reply 85):
If you're on the slide from the top, aren't you just gonna be flying by the time you reach the bottom? Or will they have a slowing area like on a slip-n-slide?

There is a deceleration pad at the bottom of the slide that slows you right down.
 
Desh
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:36 am

Most of the discussion here has been restricted to slides - maybe Airbus can think of something outside the box (apologize for the cliche') - fire escape chutes perhaps ? some mechanism to clamp down the slide if the wind is a problem ......

If nothing else works then there is always this ...

http://www.totallyabsurd.com/chutenshoes.htm

"Please note, your own chute n boot apparatus is located under your seat. In event of a emergency unfold the apparatus and attach it as shown. Please make sure your personal chute and boot is fastened before you help someone else ... In case of a "water landing" the chute and boots can be used as desired along with your floatation device" .... ! ! !
"History is merely a list of surprises. It can only prepare us to be surprised yet again." - Kurt Vonnegut
 
Poitin
Topic Author
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:39 am

BTW

There is a AirBus Power Point presentation on the A380 evacuation slides from about a year ago here:

www.faa.gov/ats/asc/nlaweb/Downloads...0ARFF%20for%20NLAFG%2005-13-03.ppt
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
terryb99
Posts: 163
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 33):
To me this is crasy, as a typical load consists of 5% drunk people, mothers with babies, children, and a number of elederly people.

The tests should be conducted with a cross section of passengers NOT sportspeople

On Sunday, I arrived at NRT from MNL on a NW 744. I was in row 4 in BC, so was by the door when it opened. I heard the Purser tell the gate attendent they needed 17 wheelchairs.
So if percentages are kept the same, a 380 could possibly have 34 wheelchair passengers, using that flight as an example.

Will the test take that possibility into consideration?
 
Desh
Posts: 204
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 88):

Good presentation there Poitin - had not seen such a formal comparison of the 747 and 380 - I am surprised to learn that the 380 carries 20% less fuel than the 747 ..

anyways - thanks for sharing ...
"History is merely a list of surprises. It can only prepare us to be surprised yet again." - Kurt Vonnegut
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting Terryb99 (Reply 89):
On Sunday, I arrived at NRT from MNL on a NW 744. I was in row 4 in BC, so was by the door when it opened. I heard the Purser tell the gate attendent they needed 17 wheelchairs.
So if percentages are kept the same, a 380 could possibly have 34 wheelchair passengers, using that flight as an example.

Will the test take that possibility into consideration?

There are no regulations stopping the entire passenger load on a normal flight consisting of blind deaf mutes in wheelchairs, but this wont be taken into consideration.

At some point you have to accept that this is a certification test, not an attempt to simulate every single possible situation that could ever occur while the A380 is in service.
 
aa777223er
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:32 am

RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 38):
I heard that the upper slides had a "cover" to them over the first few feet. So that when you jump onto the slide, you cannot see the ground, just the top of the cover.

As a Flight Attendant, there is one thing about this idea that doesn't make sense to me.

When an evacuation occurs, after the door is opened and the slide deploys and before we can send the first PAX down the slide, we have to assess the conditions outside the aircraft particularly at the bottom of the slide to ensure it is safe to evacuate using that exit. If these areas are not visible, we would have no way of knowing if we are sending a PAX to safety or to injury, or death for that matter. For that reason, I find this idea unlikely.

Regards,

AA777223ER
time flies, seize the day
 
Halibut
Posts: 943
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:43 am

RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 69):
Take a look at the following image, I cant see anything that presents a problem.

If the A380 doesn't make it as a feasable commercial aircraft " it will of course " . It will sure make one hell of a waterslide . Just pump it will a few million gallons of water through the cockpit & there you go !

 silly 

Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
Markhkg
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:09 pm

To look at ACTUAL A380 slides (for training at least) rather than the model, check out:

http://events.airbus.com/A380/Images/MME/3708.JPG

and

http://events.airbus.com/A380/Images/MME/3706.JPG

Quoting AA777223ER (Reply 92):
When an evacuation occurs, after the door is opened and the slide deploys and before we can send the first PAX down the slide, we have to assess the conditions outside the aircraft particularly at the bottom of the slide to ensure it is safe to evacuate using that exit. If these areas are not visible, we would have no way of knowing if we are sending a PAX to safety or to injury, or death for that matter. For that reason, I find this idea unlikely.

The concept is that once the pax steps onto the slide, they start sliding-- they don't have the opportunity to hesitate. The slide itself is angled to prevent passengers from having a direct view of the ground (i.e. confuses them to how high they really are), but I am fairly sure the cabin crew in the assist space can evaluate the slide deployment and decide if the slide is a go/no go.

[Edited 2006-01-31 07:12:17]
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
FlyMeToTheMoon
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:01 am

RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:17 am

Aaaah, the doom of A380.... yet again!!!! I think the correct term is "the Cassandras"

Of course it does not have an evacuation problem! The engineers and managers at Airbus realize full well that the evacuation test is critical to the certification by any aviation authority thus "a problem" along the lines of "we cannot evacuate it" spells the end of the A380. The fact that is was delayed means absolutely nothing, it has to do with aircraft availability. This would be especially critical after the AF A340 incident at YYZ where the rapid evacuation is unquestionably credited with saving the lives of all the passengers.

I am willing to bet that if a.net would have existed when the 747 came about the same doom and gloom would have reigned. And look at it now - an extremly safe airplane.

Happy flying.
Fly me to the moon... but not through LHR!
 
CHRISBA777ER
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting FlyMeToTheMoon (Reply 95):
Aaaah, the doom of A380.... yet again!!!! I think the correct term is "the Cassandras"

Of course it does not have an evacuation problem! The engineers and managers at Airbus realize full well that the evacuation test is critical to the certification by any aviation authority thus "a problem" along the lines of "we cannot evacuate it" spells the end of the A380. The fact that is was delayed means absolutely nothing, it has to do with aircraft availability. This would be especially critical after the AF A340 incident at YYZ where the rapid evacuation is unquestionably credited with saving the lives of all the passengers.

I am willing to bet that if a.net would have existed when the 747 came about the same doom and gloom would have reigned. And look at it now - an extremly safe airplane.

Happy flying.

My sentiments exactly.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
User avatar
breiz
Posts: 1446
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:12 pm

RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting FlyMeToTheMoon (Reply 95):
Aaaah, the doom of A380.... yet again!!!! I think the correct term is "the Cassandras"

Quite right.
And anyone critical about the nature and validity of the evacuation tests, should remember that such tests are not specified by Airbus, Boeing or any other manufacturer, but by the certifying authorities.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2299
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:29 am

Airbus desires to have the evac test be certified for the maximum number possible. If it is 800, even the largest stretch will have less than that # pax. If if falls to 650, a new test would be needed with a stretch if that number is exceeded. It is possible to add exits and show by a life safety analysis the results of the previous test could be extended. I think that was done with the 739ER.

I'm sure that the evac test will go well, just might not get the full 800. What I find of particular note is the total silence from Airbus on the A380 right now. Are planes 4 & 5 flying? What is causing the delay in this test. Surely if Airbus is planning to build 3 or 4 planes a month within a year it shouldn't be taking 2 months to install an interior.

-Jay
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: Does The A380 Have An Evacuation Problem?

Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:07 am

I think it's safe to say they are having some issues they are having to solve they might not have originally forseen. That's usually the drill with a totally new aircraft.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"

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